New to this & Need to understand next steps
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
New to this & Need to understand next steps
Where to begin...sorry for the long a post, but it’s my first one with a lot to get off my chest...my wife is a closet alcoholic (from what I believe to be the case and from all that I have read here and elsewhere).
We’ve been together for about 9 years, married for 5. I (and she) always knew of risks - her father was an alcoholic who basically drank himself to death a couple years ago from a lifetime of serious alcoholism which broke him as a person, put him in jail for DWI’s, ended his marriage, you name it. My wife’s brother has been addicted off and on to alcohol and drugs since he was a kid, hit a recent rock bottom and currently about 4 months sober (we are told by him). My wife’s mother suffers from severe depression with suicidal tendencies which has been in a bad place the last couple of years after she lost her job of 30 years.
Needless to say - my wife was dealt a tough hand as a child. She was always somewhat praised by her family, friends (and m) with amazement of how well she did/does in her life considering what worked against her and the condition of the rest of her family. She stayed away from drugs (still does) but always drank. She goes to therapy nearly every week for 7 years running. We attend couples therapy nearly every week for the last year or so as well. She started taking mild prescribed dose of anti-anxiety medicine about a year ago. She went and graduated college, has tons of friends l, built a lot of success professionally, always been such a kind and compassionate person.
We have always been pretty open about this stuff - mostly from what she has learned from her own history. She has always claimed to “keep tabs” on it. (I have too for her). I look back on the last year or so and recognize now the red flags that it has been progressing.
It all came to a head the last couple weeks though. I came home early from work (bit randomly and unannounced) and when I walked in I saw her running to bathroom with big spill on the ground. I smelled the spill (wine) and when asked she said she was going to pour it out and ashamed I would know she was drinking. A week later my nephew did a solo visit and wile at a food hall market together at 1pm she said she had to use the bathroom. We then also decided to use the bathroom and found her at the bar ordering a white wine which she quickly waked away from and left sitting there when she knew I saw her. I asked and she said “I’m having fun”.
But the big one was this past weekend we went on a 2 night trip to visit friends (two other couples with kids etc) to celebrate New Years (typically a holiday that drinking will take place). After we arrived I picked up her purse to hand to her and (heard clinking of glass) and commented by asking “wow, why is your bag so heavy”. She grabbed the bag and gave me a funny look and walked upstairs. I guess I worried my worse fear and felt compelled to find out so I followed her to the bedroom where she was clearing scrambling to hide something. I asked what she was hiding and she said “nothing”. I said I think she had a bottle of booze in her bag and she said “no way - look in my bag”. When I told her I heard them she then said I filled my water bottle with wine which I drank on the train ride up (which was true as the empty bottle reaked of wine). I said I think she hid something under the mattress just now which she denied. So I asked if she would show me and she said no. We kind of stood there silently for like two minutes when she eventually said fine. I lifted the mattress and there were 10 mini bottles of vodka stashed.
I think about the quantity of the 10 double shots over just the 36 hour trip for New Years where we planned (and did) drink a ton. Just seemed so obviously excessive. And what really sank in was she was hiding all of this. It was a tough couple nights to say the least. I was so in shock, scared etc but didn’t make it known (I think) to our friends as I don’t think I was able to be in an uneducated position of saying anything yet? I dumped out the vodkas and threw them out but she still drank plenty (with everyone those two nights). She knew I was upset. She was upset.
The following morning, about an hour before we planned to take the train back, I asked if she had any Advil and she said in her purse. A bit later while she was upstairs getting ready to leave I looked for her purse (truly to just find the Advil) I noticed her purse was missing. I then saw a big lump in the couch with a blanket covering it up. Sure enough it was her purse. And when I looked inside there was a 12oz water bottle filled to brim with white wine (for the train ride home).
I put it back and didn’t say anything until we got home. I asked her if she had drank or brought booze for ride home and she said “of course not”. I told her I know she did because I went to get and Advil. She then admitted she drank it.
I struggle with where we are at now. Her knowing just how impactful and upsetting for both of us it was when I found out about the vodka and just two days later doing it again anyway with the wine made it clear it seems totally out of her control. She opened up a bit to me yesterday and said:
“It’s been pretty much daily since beginning of summer (7-8 months), 3-5 glasses of wine each day hidden before I get home (and we certainly occasionally drink some together after)”.
”Her definition of not everyday is once, maybe twice a month off from drinking”
”She says her therapist knows - I wonder the extent though”
”Says worried I would be ashamed and hate her if knew”
“Says likes who she is better when drinking”
”Says feels better on it than without”
When I say “You don’t have to be the flaws of her family you know”. she says “I am my ****** family”.
“She feels sorry”.
“She admits it’s become a problem” (her words).
But she “Just wants to find a way back to how it was before it was under control”.
We were scheduled to leave for a pre-paid trip to Florida this morning and I made the early morning decision that I really was in such a bad headspace about this I felt more comfortable staying home and us skipping this one which she agreed. I also asked if we did go, would she be able to take it kind of easy, and she said she couldn’t guarantee that because if ‘vacation’. And she also drank some vodka before she went to bed last night and admitted to it quickly when I said I smelled it on her breath”.
We scheduled an Impromptu couples counseling session this evening and she says we should bring up all of the above details to talk about, which is slightly encouraging I suppose. I asked if she would be able to not drink before tonight counseling and she worriedly says she would try and knows she needs to because how important it is. I told her I could help by stick by her side today to support her not drinking before the session, but this would just be today, which she agreed to.
Soo, that was a lot, I know. Kind of feel like I have been rambling on. But I feel like I just stepped through a new reality door. Always had hunches and a lot of this not surprising with her family history and as I write and read it, but never knew we were at this point. Obviously this being so fresh (3 days of really knowing the extent) I’m scared as hell for what it will all mean, I feel so uneducated in it all, depressed, and prob every other emotion.
I love my wife. (We have no kids for record). I don’t know the next steps. I also don’t think even after all of what just took place that she would be willing to get totally sober. I don’t know though - but she hasn’t said those words yet and I haven’t asked it yet”.
That’s my story. More to come. I’m thankful for this platform to share.
Milljax-
We’ve been together for about 9 years, married for 5. I (and she) always knew of risks - her father was an alcoholic who basically drank himself to death a couple years ago from a lifetime of serious alcoholism which broke him as a person, put him in jail for DWI’s, ended his marriage, you name it. My wife’s brother has been addicted off and on to alcohol and drugs since he was a kid, hit a recent rock bottom and currently about 4 months sober (we are told by him). My wife’s mother suffers from severe depression with suicidal tendencies which has been in a bad place the last couple of years after she lost her job of 30 years.
Needless to say - my wife was dealt a tough hand as a child. She was always somewhat praised by her family, friends (and m) with amazement of how well she did/does in her life considering what worked against her and the condition of the rest of her family. She stayed away from drugs (still does) but always drank. She goes to therapy nearly every week for 7 years running. We attend couples therapy nearly every week for the last year or so as well. She started taking mild prescribed dose of anti-anxiety medicine about a year ago. She went and graduated college, has tons of friends l, built a lot of success professionally, always been such a kind and compassionate person.
We have always been pretty open about this stuff - mostly from what she has learned from her own history. She has always claimed to “keep tabs” on it. (I have too for her). I look back on the last year or so and recognize now the red flags that it has been progressing.
It all came to a head the last couple weeks though. I came home early from work (bit randomly and unannounced) and when I walked in I saw her running to bathroom with big spill on the ground. I smelled the spill (wine) and when asked she said she was going to pour it out and ashamed I would know she was drinking. A week later my nephew did a solo visit and wile at a food hall market together at 1pm she said she had to use the bathroom. We then also decided to use the bathroom and found her at the bar ordering a white wine which she quickly waked away from and left sitting there when she knew I saw her. I asked and she said “I’m having fun”.
But the big one was this past weekend we went on a 2 night trip to visit friends (two other couples with kids etc) to celebrate New Years (typically a holiday that drinking will take place). After we arrived I picked up her purse to hand to her and (heard clinking of glass) and commented by asking “wow, why is your bag so heavy”. She grabbed the bag and gave me a funny look and walked upstairs. I guess I worried my worse fear and felt compelled to find out so I followed her to the bedroom where she was clearing scrambling to hide something. I asked what she was hiding and she said “nothing”. I said I think she had a bottle of booze in her bag and she said “no way - look in my bag”. When I told her I heard them she then said I filled my water bottle with wine which I drank on the train ride up (which was true as the empty bottle reaked of wine). I said I think she hid something under the mattress just now which she denied. So I asked if she would show me and she said no. We kind of stood there silently for like two minutes when she eventually said fine. I lifted the mattress and there were 10 mini bottles of vodka stashed.
I think about the quantity of the 10 double shots over just the 36 hour trip for New Years where we planned (and did) drink a ton. Just seemed so obviously excessive. And what really sank in was she was hiding all of this. It was a tough couple nights to say the least. I was so in shock, scared etc but didn’t make it known (I think) to our friends as I don’t think I was able to be in an uneducated position of saying anything yet? I dumped out the vodkas and threw them out but she still drank plenty (with everyone those two nights). She knew I was upset. She was upset.
The following morning, about an hour before we planned to take the train back, I asked if she had any Advil and she said in her purse. A bit later while she was upstairs getting ready to leave I looked for her purse (truly to just find the Advil) I noticed her purse was missing. I then saw a big lump in the couch with a blanket covering it up. Sure enough it was her purse. And when I looked inside there was a 12oz water bottle filled to brim with white wine (for the train ride home).
I put it back and didn’t say anything until we got home. I asked her if she had drank or brought booze for ride home and she said “of course not”. I told her I know she did because I went to get and Advil. She then admitted she drank it.
I struggle with where we are at now. Her knowing just how impactful and upsetting for both of us it was when I found out about the vodka and just two days later doing it again anyway with the wine made it clear it seems totally out of her control. She opened up a bit to me yesterday and said:
“It’s been pretty much daily since beginning of summer (7-8 months), 3-5 glasses of wine each day hidden before I get home (and we certainly occasionally drink some together after)”.
”Her definition of not everyday is once, maybe twice a month off from drinking”
”She says her therapist knows - I wonder the extent though”
”Says worried I would be ashamed and hate her if knew”
“Says likes who she is better when drinking”
”Says feels better on it than without”
When I say “You don’t have to be the flaws of her family you know”. she says “I am my ****** family”.
“She feels sorry”.
“She admits it’s become a problem” (her words).
But she “Just wants to find a way back to how it was before it was under control”.
We were scheduled to leave for a pre-paid trip to Florida this morning and I made the early morning decision that I really was in such a bad headspace about this I felt more comfortable staying home and us skipping this one which she agreed. I also asked if we did go, would she be able to take it kind of easy, and she said she couldn’t guarantee that because if ‘vacation’. And she also drank some vodka before she went to bed last night and admitted to it quickly when I said I smelled it on her breath”.
We scheduled an Impromptu couples counseling session this evening and she says we should bring up all of the above details to talk about, which is slightly encouraging I suppose. I asked if she would be able to not drink before tonight counseling and she worriedly says she would try and knows she needs to because how important it is. I told her I could help by stick by her side today to support her not drinking before the session, but this would just be today, which she agreed to.
Soo, that was a lot, I know. Kind of feel like I have been rambling on. But I feel like I just stepped through a new reality door. Always had hunches and a lot of this not surprising with her family history and as I write and read it, but never knew we were at this point. Obviously this being so fresh (3 days of really knowing the extent) I’m scared as hell for what it will all mean, I feel so uneducated in it all, depressed, and prob every other emotion.
I love my wife. (We have no kids for record). I don’t know the next steps. I also don’t think even after all of what just took place that she would be willing to get totally sober. I don’t know though - but she hasn’t said those words yet and I haven’t asked it yet”.
That’s my story. More to come. I’m thankful for this platform to share.
Milljax-
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Mill......much of what you will be advised to do will probably feel very counterintuitive to you.....as the usual rules of relationships, that we have been taught, do not apply in situations of addiction or abuse.....
There is little that you can do to "help" her.....except to get out of her way, and not continue to enable her.....
Love will not be enough....if she doesn't want to live a sober life.....
We don't always get to keep the ones we love...and, may have to love them from a distance...…
There is a lot to do to prepare yourself from what is going to come....I hope you will stick around and continue to post so that we can be of support to you......
There is little that you can do to "help" her.....except to get out of her way, and not continue to enable her.....
Love will not be enough....if she doesn't want to live a sober life.....
We don't always get to keep the ones we love...and, may have to love them from a distance...…
There is a lot to do to prepare yourself from what is going to come....I hope you will stick around and continue to post so that we can be of support to you......
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
I am so sorry for what brings you here, you are going to receive a ton of good but overwhelming advice at first on this. I am going to echo dandelions sentiment. There are no amount of conversations and promises and bargains and “heartfelt agreements “that you will be able to have with her, she has to want it. And very very likely with you around, nothing will make her want it because in the end she is getting what she wants, to drink, regardless of your feelings on the matter. Regardless of how much it hurts you and how much it hurts her.
You have a ton of support here on the forum, the best thing you can do is educate yourself and do what is right for you as a human being. You will literally make yourself crazy trying to control her or help her, as dandelion said, the best thing you can do is get out of her way and let her fall. From there she will either choose to get help, or she will continue down this path and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
I am in the midst of this right now, I have been on the crazy train for too long and I’m finally getting off. He will either sink or swim, it all has to be on his own time and his own desire and drive to do so. All I’ve done is make myself crazy trying to control him.
You have a ton of support here on the forum, the best thing you can do is educate yourself and do what is right for you as a human being. You will literally make yourself crazy trying to control her or help her, as dandelion said, the best thing you can do is get out of her way and let her fall. From there she will either choose to get help, or she will continue down this path and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
I am in the midst of this right now, I have been on the crazy train for too long and I’m finally getting off. He will either sink or swim, it all has to be on his own time and his own desire and drive to do so. All I’ve done is make myself crazy trying to control him.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
One more thing I will say, the biggest catalyst was me realizing that staying with him, bargaining and making agreements etc. and staying in this house with him was simply enabling him. Once the realization that the only way he will change, and his change is not even guaranteed, is if I leave him here alone to figure out for himself if he wants this life or if he ultimately wants something better for himself.
My AH and I have had plenty of heart felt conversations that left me feeling like he’d change THIS time. And it never happened. We’d always end up in disappointment.
Now I’m leaving for 6 months to let him sort his things out while I sort out mine and we will reevaluate.
The sooner you can come to a similar conclusion, the better for your sanity and your own health and well-being. It is a process on your end though. Understandably so.
My AH and I have had plenty of heart felt conversations that left me feeling like he’d change THIS time. And it never happened. We’d always end up in disappointment.
Now I’m leaving for 6 months to let him sort his things out while I sort out mine and we will reevaluate.
The sooner you can come to a similar conclusion, the better for your sanity and your own health and well-being. It is a process on your end though. Understandably so.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 471
Mill,
this is an awful situation for you. I remember the initial smack in the face realisation of my AH's problem, despite the multiple warning signs that proceeded it. Hits like a ton of bricks.
Don't ever feel the need to apologise for long or rambling posts. Putting it all in writing is really helpful, and we truly don't mind reading.
Maybe start with setting a boundary for yourself? My first was that AH didn't sleep in our bed when he had been drinking. I needed to sleep well to pick up the inevitable slack the next day.
Wom
this is an awful situation for you. I remember the initial smack in the face realisation of my AH's problem, despite the multiple warning signs that proceeded it. Hits like a ton of bricks.
Don't ever feel the need to apologise for long or rambling posts. Putting it all in writing is really helpful, and we truly don't mind reading.
Maybe start with setting a boundary for yourself? My first was that AH didn't sleep in our bed when he had been drinking. I needed to sleep well to pick up the inevitable slack the next day.
Wom
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,646
Hi and welcome.
First things first, you didn't Cause it can't Control it and can't Cure it.
Recovering from alcoholism is an inside job (if she is in fact addicted and only she can make that decision).
In a nutshell, once someone has crossed the line from "social" drinker to alcoholic, there is no going back, once you are addicted you are addicted for life. What that means is should you decide to pick up a drink you will go through the same withdrawals and cravings you escaped when you quit (generally).
The assumption being that she actually wants to quit. Without her full resolve it is pretty much impossible to quit, it's hard work.
I would recommend reading the other threads here so you can get a bigger picture of alcoholism and families.
While previous family addiction is a factor, it's certainly not a factor in all cases. The bottom line is facing this honestly is her best hope. That she has a severe drinking problem and that she will do whatever it takes to overcome that (her decision though - that's very important).
First things first, you didn't Cause it can't Control it and can't Cure it.
Recovering from alcoholism is an inside job (if she is in fact addicted and only she can make that decision).
In a nutshell, once someone has crossed the line from "social" drinker to alcoholic, there is no going back, once you are addicted you are addicted for life. What that means is should you decide to pick up a drink you will go through the same withdrawals and cravings you escaped when you quit (generally).
The assumption being that she actually wants to quit. Without her full resolve it is pretty much impossible to quit, it's hard work.
I would recommend reading the other threads here so you can get a bigger picture of alcoholism and families.
While previous family addiction is a factor, it's certainly not a factor in all cases. The bottom line is facing this honestly is her best hope. That she has a severe drinking problem and that she will do whatever it takes to overcome that (her decision though - that's very important).
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 93
Mill we have all been there, and i am sorry you are here for the same reasons. The hiding, the lies. It is a total nightmare. I lived like that for 10 years and it got progressively worse. I am in the thankful position tight now that my AH finally embraced the program and gave in to his higher power and is now abt 3.5 months sober. What i can tell you that no amount of love, hard love, talking, reasoning, begging or pleading will change anything until your wife wants to be sober and live a better life. I am lucky that my husband came to this conclusion on his own. This was after 2 rehabs an iop, 2 detoxes. There is no way to tell when someone will hit their bottom - but it has to come from them. Hugs to you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 195
Milljax, I'm so sorry for what brings you here. I can only echo what everyone else has said, all the heart to heart talks, begging, trying to control the drinking will not help, she will still drink until she decides on her own she wants to quit. I've been unfortunately dealing with this for years so you are not alone. I've learned a lot from this forum and have received wonderful support and feedback. I don't mean to sound harsh but if there is one bit of advice I would give it would be to not bring children into this marriage unless she goes into rehab and gets serious recovery time under her belt, you have no idea how much harder it will be if you guys have kids. Best of luck to you both.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Mill,
Welcome to the club that no one wants to belong too. You have put it on paper and now you can see how crazy your life has become. From your opinion, your wife has a problem with alcohol. She has terrible DNA. Its a terrible disease and unless the person with the disease wants to do something about it, nothing will change. The problem is that the loved ones of the person with the disease become as sick as the alcoholic.
As stated above there is hope for us codies. I was dragged for 34 years with my addict, before I got the strength to move forward in life. It took me years of support and education to leave, its not easy to leave someone who we love. I would recommend to read all over this forum, even the new to recovery forum so you get the troubling side of the alcoholic. I would hit some alanon or open aa meetings. I would also reach out to an addiction therapist. Most couple therapists will not meet if they know that you have addiction in your marriage, you are lucky. Education is the only thing that will help you along the way.
I want you to understand something, she knows that she has issues, lies and hides it. She is an addict and will protect her addiction with her heart. We codies can't comprehend what it is she is doing. We will continue to get hurt over their actions. You need to protect yourself and seek support. Once you start understanding your part in this play, you can make some clear decisions on what you want in life. This process is a marathon, nothing needs to be done today. Hang in there my friend, you will be ok if you do the work.
Welcome to the club that no one wants to belong too. You have put it on paper and now you can see how crazy your life has become. From your opinion, your wife has a problem with alcohol. She has terrible DNA. Its a terrible disease and unless the person with the disease wants to do something about it, nothing will change. The problem is that the loved ones of the person with the disease become as sick as the alcoholic.
As stated above there is hope for us codies. I was dragged for 34 years with my addict, before I got the strength to move forward in life. It took me years of support and education to leave, its not easy to leave someone who we love. I would recommend to read all over this forum, even the new to recovery forum so you get the troubling side of the alcoholic. I would hit some alanon or open aa meetings. I would also reach out to an addiction therapist. Most couple therapists will not meet if they know that you have addiction in your marriage, you are lucky. Education is the only thing that will help you along the way.
I want you to understand something, she knows that she has issues, lies and hides it. She is an addict and will protect her addiction with her heart. We codies can't comprehend what it is she is doing. We will continue to get hurt over their actions. You need to protect yourself and seek support. Once you start understanding your part in this play, you can make some clear decisions on what you want in life. This process is a marathon, nothing needs to be done today. Hang in there my friend, you will be ok if you do the work.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 133
So many good responses already on here. Absolutely remember- You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. You can't Cure it. The 3 c's. Repeat them every day, multiple times if you need to. When she drinks, say to yourself "It's not about me.".
You've had your say and made it clear that this is a problem for you. She's likely been drinking far longer and far more than you think. Now you have to step out of the way and let it run its course. Detach, with love.
Buckle up. The lying will get worse and she'll get better at hiding it. It's just the power of the addiction.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. I'm dealing with the same, have been for a long time. I'm letting it run its course. The crazy stuff actually gets crazier. It's hard to imagine that it does, but it sure does.
You've had your say and made it clear that this is a problem for you. She's likely been drinking far longer and far more than you think. Now you have to step out of the way and let it run its course. Detach, with love.
Buckle up. The lying will get worse and she'll get better at hiding it. It's just the power of the addiction.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. I'm dealing with the same, have been for a long time. I'm letting it run its course. The crazy stuff actually gets crazier. It's hard to imagine that it does, but it sure does.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
Update # 1
Thanks for all the support everyone (as hard as some of it is to hear). We went to our couples counseling session last night and spilled it all out on the table. Our therapist was pretty point blank with my wife in telling her she is an alcoholic and asked her if she is aware and if she wants to make change.
My wife fully admits she has a problem to us and that it used to be “under control” but it has gotten “out of hand”. But right now she is only saying she wants to find a way to “get it back under control”. She claims she knows she would need help to do so.
I don’t tend to believe it is possible at this point to “revert back”. Honestly I always felt she pushed the boundaries during that “under control history she’s had since I have known her (almost ten years).
We are a bit a-day-at-a-time starting now. She just elected to go see her own personal therapist this afternoon and agreed to have both her Theropist and our couples Theropist connect by phone today. She was told to start to journal her daily activity and also her daily consumption to review in therapy as a starting point.
She is open to trying to go to a AA meeting which I will attend with her (an open one) which we are researching options locally. She even mentioned she would consider doing a (10?) day in-patient detox as a starting point. (Although I’m not sure if she is just saying these last two things to quiet the noise around this or to actually be willing to take some steps). But she also has yet to say the words “sober” and isn’t ready to accept that idea (keeps reverting back to “I want to get it back under control”).
I know she is completely overwhelmed by this and the idea of the mountain she’s facing ahead and probably equally the mountain of what life will be like afterwards (if she’s able to climb that 1st mountain).
Honestly at this point what I’m most confused about is what words I should say to her, And/or how much I should be “pushing” for these steps to take place....(?). Obviously intend to think if I get to pushy, it would encourage her to lie more about it etc. (the wicked conundrum...)
As for me I am going to start seeing my own Theropist in the next week or so (looking for one now). And from all I have read likely will attend a handful of Al-Anon meetings but may wait until after we go to the first AA meeting.
thanks for this support. I’m truly grateful, and will keep updating.
My wife fully admits she has a problem to us and that it used to be “under control” but it has gotten “out of hand”. But right now she is only saying she wants to find a way to “get it back under control”. She claims she knows she would need help to do so.
I don’t tend to believe it is possible at this point to “revert back”. Honestly I always felt she pushed the boundaries during that “under control history she’s had since I have known her (almost ten years).
We are a bit a-day-at-a-time starting now. She just elected to go see her own personal therapist this afternoon and agreed to have both her Theropist and our couples Theropist connect by phone today. She was told to start to journal her daily activity and also her daily consumption to review in therapy as a starting point.
She is open to trying to go to a AA meeting which I will attend with her (an open one) which we are researching options locally. She even mentioned she would consider doing a (10?) day in-patient detox as a starting point. (Although I’m not sure if she is just saying these last two things to quiet the noise around this or to actually be willing to take some steps). But she also has yet to say the words “sober” and isn’t ready to accept that idea (keeps reverting back to “I want to get it back under control”).
I know she is completely overwhelmed by this and the idea of the mountain she’s facing ahead and probably equally the mountain of what life will be like afterwards (if she’s able to climb that 1st mountain).
Honestly at this point what I’m most confused about is what words I should say to her, And/or how much I should be “pushing” for these steps to take place....(?). Obviously intend to think if I get to pushy, it would encourage her to lie more about it etc. (the wicked conundrum...)
As for me I am going to start seeing my own Theropist in the next week or so (looking for one now). And from all I have read likely will attend a handful of Al-Anon meetings but may wait until after we go to the first AA meeting.
thanks for this support. I’m truly grateful, and will keep updating.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Mill, you sound like you are a great person (and codie). This is her gig as hard as it is to say. We can not protect our addicts so they don't feel the pain and burn of what they have gotten themselves into. This is how I think most of us codies get in this situation in the first place, always helping everyone out, and then we get burned.
This is her battle, not yours. She needs to hit the aa meetings and you need to go to alanon. When she is comfortable with the meetings then I think you can do open aa meetings. Most addicts do not share a lot of what they are going through with their significant others, as we can't understand what they are going through, and that's ok.
Step back, let her find the inpatient program, and her find the meetings, her go to the meetings. This is what finding sobriety is all about, actions, not words; empower her, to figure this out so she can be proud of her accomplishments. There is a saying here "that you should stay on your side of the street and she on hers."
You are doing great, find your therapist and meetings because you are going to need them if you intend on sticking around in this marriage. Put on your oxygen mask first.
This is her battle, not yours. She needs to hit the aa meetings and you need to go to alanon. When she is comfortable with the meetings then I think you can do open aa meetings. Most addicts do not share a lot of what they are going through with their significant others, as we can't understand what they are going through, and that's ok.
Step back, let her find the inpatient program, and her find the meetings, her go to the meetings. This is what finding sobriety is all about, actions, not words; empower her, to figure this out so she can be proud of her accomplishments. There is a saying here "that you should stay on your side of the street and she on hers."
You are doing great, find your therapist and meetings because you are going to need them if you intend on sticking around in this marriage. Put on your oxygen mask first.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Mill......I hear a lot of "we" in your posting...…
Her coming to grips with her alcoholism, or not, is not a "we" situation...it is totally her deal. The more you insert yourself into it...the more you are setting yourself up to become a part of the "enemy".
You cannot come to the "rescue" in this situation. Sure, she might feel overwhelmed...but, that is for her to deal with.....the worst thing a doting spouse can do for the alcoholic is to put a soft pillow under their behind when it come to their drinking. They will need the reality of dealing with life on life's terms...…
Do not become her cheerleader...or her therapist...or her nursemaid...or her Father Confessor....
She will only value that which she does for herself....
About the AA meeting....I don't see a problem of going the first time or two if she is too afraid to go in the door by herself...but, otherwise...I don't recomemend that you attend meeting s with her. If you give her a ride....let her go in by herself....
I knw that these "rules' are very new to you, and I told you that they would be counterintuitive...lol....
The best way for you to be supportive is to just not be obstructive.....Just get out of her way. Put your energy, that you would, normally, put on your wife...and direct it toward your own self exploration...…
Here is the ma in principle----"If you rescue someone from something that they can and should be doing for themselves....eventually, you will cease being the rescuer and become the victim, yourself"...….
this is taken from "Co-dependent No More"......
Her coming to grips with her alcoholism, or not, is not a "we" situation...it is totally her deal. The more you insert yourself into it...the more you are setting yourself up to become a part of the "enemy".
You cannot come to the "rescue" in this situation. Sure, she might feel overwhelmed...but, that is for her to deal with.....the worst thing a doting spouse can do for the alcoholic is to put a soft pillow under their behind when it come to their drinking. They will need the reality of dealing with life on life's terms...…
Do not become her cheerleader...or her therapist...or her nursemaid...or her Father Confessor....
She will only value that which she does for herself....
About the AA meeting....I don't see a problem of going the first time or two if she is too afraid to go in the door by herself...but, otherwise...I don't recomemend that you attend meeting s with her. If you give her a ride....let her go in by herself....
I knw that these "rules' are very new to you, and I told you that they would be counterintuitive...lol....
The best way for you to be supportive is to just not be obstructive.....Just get out of her way. Put your energy, that you would, normally, put on your wife...and direct it toward your own self exploration...…
Here is the ma in principle----"If you rescue someone from something that they can and should be doing for themselves....eventually, you will cease being the rescuer and become the victim, yourself"...….
this is taken from "Co-dependent No More"......
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Mill...….I hope you don't get swept up in all this talk about 'getting it under control"......because there is no factual basis for that concept, when it comes to alcoholism. Those are the kinds of words that well-meaning people...who are ignorant about alcoholism....use. Sure they "make sense" ….but, they are as errant as old wives tales.....
The fondest dream of every alcoholic is to be able to moderate---to drink like a non-alcoholic is able to do. It is the dream that they h old onto the tightest. Some spend decades trying to prove that they can moderate.....
The only way to arrest alcoholism is total abstainence.
Not one more drink of alcohol...ever.
If you would like some scientific explanation for this...I recommend that you might like to read "The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar…..
At least, you will know what you are up against.....
You will be reading it for your own understandisdng….not so you can get your wife to stop drinking…..
You can get the book on amazon.com.....at a reduced price if you will accept a used one......
The fondest dream of every alcoholic is to be able to moderate---to drink like a non-alcoholic is able to do. It is the dream that they h old onto the tightest. Some spend decades trying to prove that they can moderate.....
The only way to arrest alcoholism is total abstainence.
Not one more drink of alcohol...ever.
If you would like some scientific explanation for this...I recommend that you might like to read "The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar…..
At least, you will know what you are up against.....
You will be reading it for your own understandisdng….not so you can get your wife to stop drinking…..
You can get the book on amazon.com.....at a reduced price if you will accept a used one......
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
Honestly at this point what I’m most confused about is what words I should say to her, And/or how much I should be “pushing” for these steps to take place....(?). Obviously intend to think if I get to pushy, it would encourage her to lie more about it etc. (the wicked conundrum...)
you need to take yourself out of the equation. she is VERY aware she has a drinking problem and the problems her drinking are causing. yes she showed willingness to go to the therapy session - and has made noises about knowing it's a problem, but that she still believes she can get it back under control.
that is addict-speak for - yup, ya'll are flapping your gums about me and my drinking. and so i will say things that makes it sound like i'm receptive. but meanwhile i'm hitting my vodka stash. cuz i don't have a problem with my drinking, YOU DO.
you can't fix this. if you had the power to stop her self destructive behaviors, you would have done so by now. she is the only one who can turn this around - if she chooses to do so. many do not.
you need to take yourself out of the equation. she is VERY aware she has a drinking problem and the problems her drinking are causing. yes she showed willingness to go to the therapy session - and has made noises about knowing it's a problem, but that she still believes she can get it back under control.
that is addict-speak for - yup, ya'll are flapping your gums about me and my drinking. and so i will say things that makes it sound like i'm receptive. but meanwhile i'm hitting my vodka stash. cuz i don't have a problem with my drinking, YOU DO.
you can't fix this. if you had the power to stop her self destructive behaviors, you would have done so by now. she is the only one who can turn this around - if she chooses to do so. many do not.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 356
Hi Milljax
Sorry for what brought you here but glad you found us as you will learn a lot here and get a lot of support. Also reading all the threads will make you realize that all of our stories are similar.
First of all, no alcoholic can drink in moderation. All it takes for them is one drink, even after many years of sobriety, and it will be like they never stopped drinking. They basically pick up where they left off. It takes most alcoholics a long time to accept this. My now ex told me in 2014 he realized he could never drink again. Of course he didn’t seek treatment and after 13 months of being a dry drunk (someone who quit drinking but is just white knuckling it, they still have the same alcoholic behaviors but no longer have their coping skill that is alcohol) he started drinking again.
Couples counseling is pretty useless with an active addict. It might bring some issues to the table but unless she seeks true recovery nothing good will come out of it as the alcohol is the cause for your problems. Unless she stops, nothing will changé
Detox is just to safely stop drinking, it doesn’t do anything else. She will need therapy with someone that has an addiction background (someone that is well trained of dealing with manipulative addicts). Chances are she is not being very truthful with her therapist about the extent of her drinking.
The sooner you understand that there is nothing you can do for her to help her get clean, the better. It is hard to accept but it is really 100% on the alcoholic to quit drinking and seek recovery (as in doing rehab, meetings, counseling etc). It will have to be her decision to quit drinking, otherwise she will for sure not be successful. No amount of love will get or keep her clean. If that was the case none of us would be here. You will have your own recovery to take care of, your recovery from codependency. Not sure I anyone had mentioned codependent no more but I highly recommend it. Also Pleasure unwoven. It is a very good documentary on alcoholism that we watched during family week in rehab,
Recovery is hard and she has to really truly want it, and even then it will take several months for her to change her behaviors and learn new coping skills. And she may change a lot as well. She would have to in order to stay clean. She came from a bad background and grew up in a dysfunctional alcoholic household from the sounds of it. She never learned normal coping skills. They say that people stop developing emotionally at the age they started drinking, for many that is in their teens. My ex is very successful at his job and was « high functioning » at work, it is just that at home he really was not functional at all, especially as far as our relationship was concerned. He wasn’t very present at all and I never understood that until he went to rehab.
Educate yourself as much as you can, read lots of threads here, and let your wife figure it out for herself. If she is really motivated to quit she will take things I to her own hands and take action. If you hold her hand and help her I think you can be pretty sure that she is just « making an effort » to keep the peace for a while, addiction sucks, recovery will be a long road, but it is one that you have to let her take on her own. Like someone said, don’t be a cheerleader, it won’t help her. Quitting drinking is the easy part, it is staying clean that will be hard and that requires working a program and changing themselves, learn healthy coping skills and quit being master manipulators. And she really needs to go to meeting on her own, it is a scary thing but she is the one that has the face it head on. Otherwise nothing will change. If she is ready to quit inpatient rehab would be highly recommended if you can afford it. If she is making excuses ahead of time of why it may not work she is likely not ready to quit for herself and rehab will probably be a waste of money. Focus on you, check out slalom if you haven’t already and do individual counseling for sure. I found that friends and family were supportive but unless they have lived through alcoholism they just don’t understand it. Most people just think they need to quit drinking and everything will be fine, but that’s not how this works unfortunately. Find people who know what you are going through, it will help you a lot as well. Good luck, I hope your wife is ready to quit for herself but be prepared that she isn’t there yet. Also they often know the right thing to say but then there is no action to back up their words.
Sorry for what brought you here but glad you found us as you will learn a lot here and get a lot of support. Also reading all the threads will make you realize that all of our stories are similar.
First of all, no alcoholic can drink in moderation. All it takes for them is one drink, even after many years of sobriety, and it will be like they never stopped drinking. They basically pick up where they left off. It takes most alcoholics a long time to accept this. My now ex told me in 2014 he realized he could never drink again. Of course he didn’t seek treatment and after 13 months of being a dry drunk (someone who quit drinking but is just white knuckling it, they still have the same alcoholic behaviors but no longer have their coping skill that is alcohol) he started drinking again.
Couples counseling is pretty useless with an active addict. It might bring some issues to the table but unless she seeks true recovery nothing good will come out of it as the alcohol is the cause for your problems. Unless she stops, nothing will changé
Detox is just to safely stop drinking, it doesn’t do anything else. She will need therapy with someone that has an addiction background (someone that is well trained of dealing with manipulative addicts). Chances are she is not being very truthful with her therapist about the extent of her drinking.
The sooner you understand that there is nothing you can do for her to help her get clean, the better. It is hard to accept but it is really 100% on the alcoholic to quit drinking and seek recovery (as in doing rehab, meetings, counseling etc). It will have to be her decision to quit drinking, otherwise she will for sure not be successful. No amount of love will get or keep her clean. If that was the case none of us would be here. You will have your own recovery to take care of, your recovery from codependency. Not sure I anyone had mentioned codependent no more but I highly recommend it. Also Pleasure unwoven. It is a very good documentary on alcoholism that we watched during family week in rehab,
Recovery is hard and she has to really truly want it, and even then it will take several months for her to change her behaviors and learn new coping skills. And she may change a lot as well. She would have to in order to stay clean. She came from a bad background and grew up in a dysfunctional alcoholic household from the sounds of it. She never learned normal coping skills. They say that people stop developing emotionally at the age they started drinking, for many that is in their teens. My ex is very successful at his job and was « high functioning » at work, it is just that at home he really was not functional at all, especially as far as our relationship was concerned. He wasn’t very present at all and I never understood that until he went to rehab.
Educate yourself as much as you can, read lots of threads here, and let your wife figure it out for herself. If she is really motivated to quit she will take things I to her own hands and take action. If you hold her hand and help her I think you can be pretty sure that she is just « making an effort » to keep the peace for a while, addiction sucks, recovery will be a long road, but it is one that you have to let her take on her own. Like someone said, don’t be a cheerleader, it won’t help her. Quitting drinking is the easy part, it is staying clean that will be hard and that requires working a program and changing themselves, learn healthy coping skills and quit being master manipulators. And she really needs to go to meeting on her own, it is a scary thing but she is the one that has the face it head on. Otherwise nothing will change. If she is ready to quit inpatient rehab would be highly recommended if you can afford it. If she is making excuses ahead of time of why it may not work she is likely not ready to quit for herself and rehab will probably be a waste of money. Focus on you, check out slalom if you haven’t already and do individual counseling for sure. I found that friends and family were supportive but unless they have lived through alcoholism they just don’t understand it. Most people just think they need to quit drinking and everything will be fine, but that’s not how this works unfortunately. Find people who know what you are going through, it will help you a lot as well. Good luck, I hope your wife is ready to quit for herself but be prepared that she isn’t there yet. Also they often know the right thing to say but then there is no action to back up their words.
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