Shutout by alcoholic boyfriend
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Thanks for the advice NYCDoglvr. I'm sure there was a part of me that thought that I was special enough to be different - guess that's human nature. And perhaps I am special enough that he wanted to try for the first time in that length of time. His honesty with me, might be the quality in him that I am the most grateful for. Although I am missing him and do worry about him, I am moving along...day by day. That's just how it's going to be I guess. And for him, it may be how it always is. Guess at least he had someone in his life for a little while that was a good person that TRULY cared about him.
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He did right by you
I was reminded about a really lame book which became popular 10 years ago as the bible for dating through reading your thread. Do you remember "he's just not that into you"? Told you it was cheesy but actually alot of that book holds true.
I think the most frustrating thing here is that you probably will never get an answer as to why he decided to end things. Did he relapse? Is he a commitment-phobe? Did he just overextend his feelings without realising it? Either way the crux of it is *it really does not matter why*.
I wish my ex had been honest with me like yours was. You may not see it now but he really did do good by you, even if this wasn't the outcome you expected. I am really sorry you are going through this but you do deserve someone who will be happy to call you their girlfriend, who will be proud to have you by their side and show off to family and friends. All the best.
I think the most frustrating thing here is that you probably will never get an answer as to why he decided to end things. Did he relapse? Is he a commitment-phobe? Did he just overextend his feelings without realising it? Either way the crux of it is *it really does not matter why*.
I wish my ex had been honest with me like yours was. You may not see it now but he really did do good by you, even if this wasn't the outcome you expected. I am really sorry you are going through this but you do deserve someone who will be happy to call you their girlfriend, who will be proud to have you by their side and show off to family and friends. All the best.
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Thanks Kokoro. You are right twice...I'll probably never know why and at this point it doesn't matter. One day all was fine and the next, wham! So much luckier than I could have been though. And if his sobriety was at risk then that had to be his number 1 priority...hands down. I'll just keep moving forward - as will you I'm sure.
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Okay just a little bone to pick about the honesty thing-. I have to say, some of the most honest people I know, who I have known for 30+ years, not once in my life did we ever have a conversation about their honesty. They just *are*. And their behaviors match up and are congruent with what they say. On the flip side, I’ve known some pretty shady people (outright liars in some cases- even about odd little things that they didn’t have to lie about?), that presented themselves as very honest, and their supposed honesty would come up in conversation. Also would get triggered/ fixated on other people’s honesty or lack there of. I’ve seen and experienced this enough, then when I notice this in someone, when someone starts taking about how honest they are, it’s a red flag to me.
Also, the whole love bombing early on, initiating sleeping with you, all the while saying he hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 years, at the same time saying he wants to see where this goes, then pulling back, while still keeping contact trinkling along, telling you there’s no one else & will be no one else..there are some pretty heavy mixed messages going on there. And I imagine very confusing? And it’s crafty. Love bomb a person, they feel special and important, then pull back while still doing or saying things that lead a person to believe that maybe they are/ were that special..and there’s just enough of a carrot still dangling there, that if they decide to come back, it reinforces the initial early stages of the love bombing (see, they did come back...). This is exactly how the “hook” works, and how people end up on relationship crazy trains (sometimes getting hooked again if the person comes back years later, because they believe they were the one special one..)
As far as him and his sobriety, who knows. But the most important thing here is *you* and your experience, and how it’s affecting you. You mentioned your childhood and your stepfather, so I don’t know if that’s what you witnessed as a child (the focus being on him and his comfort and feelings,, and the walking on eggshells not to trigger anything in him), but hopefully as you take space from this, maybe all of that will get sorted out, if there are in fact some parallels or similarities?
Also, the whole love bombing early on, initiating sleeping with you, all the while saying he hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 years, at the same time saying he wants to see where this goes, then pulling back, while still keeping contact trinkling along, telling you there’s no one else & will be no one else..there are some pretty heavy mixed messages going on there. And I imagine very confusing? And it’s crafty. Love bomb a person, they feel special and important, then pull back while still doing or saying things that lead a person to believe that maybe they are/ were that special..and there’s just enough of a carrot still dangling there, that if they decide to come back, it reinforces the initial early stages of the love bombing (see, they did come back...). This is exactly how the “hook” works, and how people end up on relationship crazy trains (sometimes getting hooked again if the person comes back years later, because they believe they were the one special one..)
As far as him and his sobriety, who knows. But the most important thing here is *you* and your experience, and how it’s affecting you. You mentioned your childhood and your stepfather, so I don’t know if that’s what you witnessed as a child (the focus being on him and his comfort and feelings,, and the walking on eggshells not to trigger anything in him), but hopefully as you take space from this, maybe all of that will get sorted out, if there are in fact some parallels or similarities?
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Also, the whole love bombing early on, initiating sleeping with you, all the while saying he hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 years, at the same time saying he wants to see where this goes, then pulling back, while still keeping contact trinkling along, telling you there’s no one else & will be no one else..there are some pretty heavy mixed messages going on there.
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I think that is true in many cases NYC.
That book/movie "He's just not that in to you". I never read the book, I hate the title and oddly the movie was on TV the other day so I finally watched the whole thing (or watched it again) and it was ridiculous.
Now, that may just be my perception because I never liked the title!
He's just not that in to you to me = Who gives a ****.
But hey, that's me!
Here is the other thing I believe, you cannot apply "normal" relationship functioning in a relationship with an active alcoholic, their minds just do not work the same. Their reality may not be what others would consider "normal". While in active addiction their brains are different for heaven's sake!
It would be like dating a person who is bi-polar or had any other mental illness, untreated and expecting "normal" behaviour.
I was also just reading an article about how alcoholics self-sabotage which reminded me. Not just their relationships but their lives. Work, friends, romantic relationships and I think this is true for many. So while their behaviour seems counter-intuitive to us, it is not to them, it is where they are comfortable - miserable, but comfortable.
While in a normal relationship you can expect and require normal things like a phone call when someone says they will call. Don't ever expect that from an addict. Does that mean they don't care? Not that I've seen. But they are not robots, while they may have alcoholic traits each person is different but I don't think we can conclude that because they didn't act "normally" that they don't/didn't care.
It's complicated.
That book/movie "He's just not that in to you". I never read the book, I hate the title and oddly the movie was on TV the other day so I finally watched the whole thing (or watched it again) and it was ridiculous.
Now, that may just be my perception because I never liked the title!
He's just not that in to you to me = Who gives a ****.
But hey, that's me!
Here is the other thing I believe, you cannot apply "normal" relationship functioning in a relationship with an active alcoholic, their minds just do not work the same. Their reality may not be what others would consider "normal". While in active addiction their brains are different for heaven's sake!
It would be like dating a person who is bi-polar or had any other mental illness, untreated and expecting "normal" behaviour.
I was also just reading an article about how alcoholics self-sabotage which reminded me. Not just their relationships but their lives. Work, friends, romantic relationships and I think this is true for many. So while their behaviour seems counter-intuitive to us, it is not to them, it is where they are comfortable - miserable, but comfortable.
While in a normal relationship you can expect and require normal things like a phone call when someone says they will call. Don't ever expect that from an addict. Does that mean they don't care? Not that I've seen. But they are not robots, while they may have alcoholic traits each person is different but I don't think we can conclude that because they didn't act "normally" that they don't/didn't care.
It's complicated.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr 
I don't think I'd call it "crafty"........many people, especially those with lots of fear, are conflicted. Maybe one part of him wanted it, but the other part couldn't handle it.
Maybe, I don’t know him so who knows, but in my experience, people who do this kind of thing are in fact oftentimes crafty/ manipulative, and usually don’t see themselves as such either- it usually comes across as conflicted/ tormented, and can cause quite a bit of pain and confusion for the people on the receiving end of this. I guess it depends on what side of the behavior you’re on. Maybe what you are saying is true, and he’s conflicted in an innocent way, but there were quite a few red flags in what the OP posted. Maybe he’ll leave her be, but it’s not uncommon in this type of a situation for there to be enough of a carrot still dangling to cause confusion. That’s the jist of what I got from OPs posts.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I think that is true in many cases NYC.
That book/movie "He's just not that in to you". I never read the book, I hate the title and oddly the movie was on TV the other day so I finally watched the whole thing (or watched it again) and it was ridiculous.
Now, that may just be my perception because I never liked the title!
He's just not that in to you to me = Who gives a ****.
But hey, that's me!
Here is the other thing I believe, you cannot apply "normal" relationship functioning in a relationship with an active alcoholic, their minds just do not work the same. Their reality may not be what others would consider "normal". While in active addiction their brains are different for heaven's sake!
It would be like dating a person who is bi-polar or had any other mental illness, untreated and expecting "normal" behaviour.
I was also just reading an article about how alcoholics self-sabotage which reminded me. Not just their relationships but their lives. Work, friends, romantic relationships and I think this is true for many. So while their behaviour seems counter-intuitive to us, it is not to them, it is where they are comfortable - miserable, but comfortable.
While in a normal relationship you can expect and require normal things like a phone call when someone says they will call. Don't ever expect that from an addict. Does that mean they don't care? Not that I've seen. But they are not robots, while they may have alcoholic traits each person is different but I don't think we can conclude that because they didn't act "normally" that they don't/didn't care.
It's complicated.
That book/movie "He's just not that in to you". I never read the book, I hate the title and oddly the movie was on TV the other day so I finally watched the whole thing (or watched it again) and it was ridiculous.
Now, that may just be my perception because I never liked the title!
He's just not that in to you to me = Who gives a ****.
But hey, that's me!
Here is the other thing I believe, you cannot apply "normal" relationship functioning in a relationship with an active alcoholic, their minds just do not work the same. Their reality may not be what others would consider "normal". While in active addiction their brains are different for heaven's sake!
It would be like dating a person who is bi-polar or had any other mental illness, untreated and expecting "normal" behaviour.
I was also just reading an article about how alcoholics self-sabotage which reminded me. Not just their relationships but their lives. Work, friends, romantic relationships and I think this is true for many. So while their behaviour seems counter-intuitive to us, it is not to them, it is where they are comfortable - miserable, but comfortable.
While in a normal relationship you can expect and require normal things like a phone call when someone says they will call. Don't ever expect that from an addict. Does that mean they don't care? Not that I've seen. But they are not robots, while they may have alcoholic traits each person is different but I don't think we can conclude that because they didn't act "normally" that they don't/didn't care.
It's complicated.
. I tend to make clean breaks with people (including friendships that went south, too). However, I had this other friend from HS, who was so fun and funny, we worked together and hung out, too. Then I saw him a year or two after HS ended, and he had totally changed. Hanging out with a bad crowd, drinking heavily, *mean*, his sense of humor was no where to be found, a near date- rape kind of incident that I almost didn’t get myself out of (but did). I remember my self preservation instincts took over and I just completely stayed away from him after that- but in his case, I thought the substance abuse really changed him (he took his own life in his 30s). But who knows what was really going on with him..
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Originally Posted by pdm22
Okay just a little bone to pick about the honesty thing-. I have to say, some of the most honest people I know, who I have known for 30+ years, not once in my life did we ever have a conversation about their honesty. They just *are*. And their behaviors match up and are congruent with what they say. On the flip side, I’ve known some pretty shady people (outright liars in some cases- even about odd little things that they didn’t have to lie about?), that presented themselves as very honest, and their supposed honesty would come up in conversation. Also would get triggered/ fixated on other people’s honesty or lack there of. I’ve seen and experienced this enough, then when I notice this in someone, when someone starts taking about how honest they are, it’s a red flag to me.
Also, the whole love bombing early on, initiating sleeping with you, all the while saying he hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 years, at the same time saying he wants to see where this goes, then pulling back, while still keeping contact trinkling along, telling you there’s no one else & will be no one else..there are some pretty heavy mixed messages going on there. And I imagine very confusing? And it’s crafty. Love bomb a person, they feel special and important, then pull back while still doing or saying things that lead a person to believe that maybe they are/ were that special..and there’s just enough of a carrot still dangling there, that if they decide to come back, it reinforces the initial early stages of the love bombing (see, they did come back...). This is exactly how the “hook” works, and how people end up on relationship crazy trains (sometimes getting hooked again if the person comes back years later, because they believe they were the one special one..)
As far as him and his sobriety, who knows. But the most important thing here is *you* and your experience, and how it’s affecting you. You mentioned your childhood and your stepfather, so I don’t know if that’s what you witnessed as a child (the focus being on him and his comfort and feelings,, and the walking on eggshells not to trigger anything in him), but hopefully as you take space from this, maybe all of that will get sorted out, if there are in fact some parallels or similarities?
Also, the whole love bombing early on, initiating sleeping with you, all the while saying he hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 years, at the same time saying he wants to see where this goes, then pulling back, while still keeping contact trinkling along, telling you there’s no one else & will be no one else..there are some pretty heavy mixed messages going on there. And I imagine very confusing? And it’s crafty. Love bomb a person, they feel special and important, then pull back while still doing or saying things that lead a person to believe that maybe they are/ were that special..and there’s just enough of a carrot still dangling there, that if they decide to come back, it reinforces the initial early stages of the love bombing (see, they did come back...). This is exactly how the “hook” works, and how people end up on relationship crazy trains (sometimes getting hooked again if the person comes back years later, because they believe they were the one special one..)
As far as him and his sobriety, who knows. But the most important thing here is *you* and your experience, and how it’s affecting you. You mentioned your childhood and your stepfather, so I don’t know if that’s what you witnessed as a child (the focus being on him and his comfort and feelings,, and the walking on eggshells not to trigger anything in him), but hopefully as you take space from this, maybe all of that will get sorted out, if there are in fact some parallels or similarities?
As far as his honesty goes, I feel like he was honest with me. It's not something that we discussed seriously per se, but rather we just WERE honest with each other. We had some pretty deep discussions early on. As deep as I have experienced before. Intense enough that he was the one having to wait me out for responses, rather than the reverse. I have no reason to believe that he's been dishonest with me. Have his actions of late hurt me, OH YES. But that's separate from being dishonest. It seems to me that he told me all that he was capable handling in the moment.
When he was back and forth about where things were going with us I really felt it was because he was unsure of what to do and literally didn't know how he should proceed with me. Very conflicted. Afraid of hurting me or causing himself to be hurt? Probably. A close friend of mine thought he didn't see himself as worthy of me. (And she told me this when we were together, not like she was trying to help me feel better after being hurt by all this.) Whatever the reason, my reaction was to give him space and let him figure out for himself what he wanted. Which he did, and made it clear that the choice was to be with me. It was confusing at times and there were lots of mixed messages. I chalked them all up to him needing to figure things out, not him trying to mislead me intentionally. Seemed to me that him being confused based on his condition and history was not surprising at all.
Whenever we were together somewhere it was clear that he wanted to be with me, enjoyed spending time with me, wanted to spend more time with me, and he seemed utterly comfortable and himself when I was with him and he said as much. Comfortable just doing nothing. He was relaxed whenever we were spending time together, even for multiple days straight at a time. It was easy. If he was tense when he would first arrive to see me, I could see him begin to relax after just a few minutes. Even if we were just sitting on a park bench.
I'm sharing all of this to try and give you a little bit of my perspective, since there's no way for you to "know" him.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Here is the other thing I believe, you cannot apply "normal" relationship functioning in a relationship with an active alcoholic, their minds just do not work the same. Their reality may not be what others would consider "normal". While in active addiction their brains are different for heaven's sake!
It would be like dating a person who is bi-polar or had any other mental illness, untreated and expecting "normal" behaviour.
I was also just reading an article about how alcoholics self-sabotage which reminded me. Not just their relationships but their lives. Work, friends, romantic relationships and I think this is true for many. So while their behaviour seems counter-intuitive to us, it is not to them, it is where they are comfortable - miserable, but comfortable.
While in a normal relationship you can expect and require normal things like a phone call when someone says they will call. Don't ever expect that from an addict. Does that mean they don't care? Not that I've seen. But they are not robots, while they may have alcoholic traits each person is different but I don't think we can conclude that because they didn't act "normally" that they don't/didn't care.
It's complicated.
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Originally Posted by Emeraldgirl
That in the end, him caring (even deeply) for me was not enough for him to be able to work it out. The amount of feelings he had for me could have easily added to the undoing of it all.
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Yeah it’s hard to make sense of everything, especially in the beginning. Maybe crafty/ manipulative are sort of loaded words to throw out there. Just thinking of some people who I’ve known myself who perhaps 9 out of 10 people who describe heir actions as being as such, but from the point of view of the person exhibiting these behaviors, they might say they are acting that way because of fear, or confusion, or fear of emotional intimacy, or maybe they don’t even know why. I think it’s similar with the phrase “attention seeking”- I’ve heard it referred to as really being “attachment seeking”, the person just doesn’t know how, so they to try get their needs met by acting out.
I don’t know, but I know I’ve been in similar type situations. The kind of thing that I’ve noticed is that when the person doing the pulling away (or back forth, mixed messages) seems (or genuinely is) kind and sincere, and you as the person on the receiving end of the behavior are heavy on the empathy, things can get very, very painful. I know for me, I have an easier time with outright a-holes, because my self preservation instincts tend to kick in, whether I’m ready to let go of the relationship or not. It’s harder when the pain comes a sadder/ gentler place. At least that’s been my experience. And why I agree that it’s a bad idea to get involved with an addict. You *will* get hurt, there’s just no way around it.
I don’t know, but I know I’ve been in similar type situations. The kind of thing that I’ve noticed is that when the person doing the pulling away (or back forth, mixed messages) seems (or genuinely is) kind and sincere, and you as the person on the receiving end of the behavior are heavy on the empathy, things can get very, very painful. I know for me, I have an easier time with outright a-holes, because my self preservation instincts tend to kick in, whether I’m ready to let go of the relationship or not. It’s harder when the pain comes a sadder/ gentler place. At least that’s been my experience. And why I agree that it’s a bad idea to get involved with an addict. You *will* get hurt, there’s just no way around it.
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Hi pdm22 and yes, I agree with what you are saying. Especially as regards him being sincere and my empathy. Not to mention my own emotional attachment to him. You are absolutely right, it would be much easier if he was a complete jerk. Then I would be mad right away, which seems like it would be easier than hurt from where I sit. But, the fact that I'm hurt at least means that my feelings for him were real and true. So at least he had that for a while, right? Something good with a good person who had real feelings for him. He may never have (or rarely has) experienced that before.
Going forward I will no doubt be more cautious in order to protect myself, at least a little bit. It's a valuable lesson that I have learned. From the beginning I knew that a bad ending was quite possible, and went forward anyway. What can I say, other than I wanted to try. As a part of all this I got to spend some time with a man who was really wonderful...for a while.
Going forward I will no doubt be more cautious in order to protect myself, at least a little bit. It's a valuable lesson that I have learned. From the beginning I knew that a bad ending was quite possible, and went forward anyway. What can I say, other than I wanted to try. As a part of all this I got to spend some time with a man who was really wonderful...for a while.
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Emeraldgirl….
"What can I say, other than I wanted to try"...….
This reminds me of a song that I think reminds me of this sentiment...…
I am giving you the following link to that song...…
https://www.bing.com/search?q=you+tu...A&pc=EUPP_UE04
"What can I say, other than I wanted to try"...….
This reminds me of a song that I think reminds me of this sentiment...…
I am giving you the following link to that song...…
https://www.bing.com/search?q=you+tu...A&pc=EUPP_UE04
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Trust me, I wish my ex had cheated on me, then I would have been more than happy to kick him to the curb!
think about how much power ^^^ gives to HIM. and what you are "wishing" upon yourself, rather than simply taking a stand and making a decision without needing something horrible to happen first. we also hear this sentiment - i wish he would just hit me and get it over with THEN i could move on............
it's way past time to sit around and wait for our partners to act in some vile way SO THAT we can feel justified. we need to own our power and call the shots AS we see fit, WHEN we see fit.
think about how much power ^^^ gives to HIM. and what you are "wishing" upon yourself, rather than simply taking a stand and making a decision without needing something horrible to happen first. we also hear this sentiment - i wish he would just hit me and get it over with THEN i could move on............
it's way past time to sit around and wait for our partners to act in some vile way SO THAT we can feel justified. we need to own our power and call the shots AS we see fit, WHEN we see fit.
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@anvilhead. Oh no I completely agree. The whole frog in a boiling pot analogy is sadly very very true which is why it is important to reach out to others, espcially loved one who really just care about you. Atleast they can give you a healthy dose of reality.
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Over the years, I can't count how many times I have heard this sentiment from those trying to leave a toxic relationship...or, trying to rationalize whey they are staying.....
"I wish he would cheat on me"....or, "If he ever hit me, I would be out the door".....
It is amazing, that when these things DO ever come to pass.....the person usually stays! They seem to (usually) stay....and just complain about how much more miserable they are.
This leads me to think that those who are in a toxic relationship that they can't manage to leave....have some problems with having protective boundaries, in the first place.....and, when the partner adds cheating and abuse to the mix...their boundaries are of no better help to them, than they were , in the first place....
***I am not trying to be critical of any particular person....just making a general observation of mine.....
"I wish he would cheat on me"....or, "If he ever hit me, I would be out the door".....
It is amazing, that when these things DO ever come to pass.....the person usually stays! They seem to (usually) stay....and just complain about how much more miserable they are.
This leads me to think that those who are in a toxic relationship that they can't manage to leave....have some problems with having protective boundaries, in the first place.....and, when the partner adds cheating and abuse to the mix...their boundaries are of no better help to them, than they were , in the first place....
***I am not trying to be critical of any particular person....just making a general observation of mine.....
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^whoa. I just wanted to clarify, since I was the one who said that about having an easier time when someone is an a-hole and I feel like that got really twisted. In no way was I trying to tell anyone to wait until someone abused them before they leave (?). I was just sharing with the OP, that in my personal experience, when people have crossed certain lines with me, that was that, and those relationships came to a close. In situations where the person was suffering in a more “in acting” way. I’ve had a harder time because I do tend to have empathy in those situations,.
Those are my personal boundaries and how things played out for me in my life. I was speaking for myself, and not saying everyone else has the same boundaries as I do, or that other people’s “trouble” relationships are going to play out like mine did. I was sharing that with the OP, because I was guessing that maybe that’s what was going on here, with the sympathizing. Personally I think even then, if you end up suffering too being on the receiving end of painful behaviors from in-acting, sensitive types, you have to take care of yourself just the same.
Those are my personal boundaries and how things played out for me in my life. I was speaking for myself, and not saying everyone else has the same boundaries as I do, or that other people’s “trouble” relationships are going to play out like mine did. I was sharing that with the OP, because I was guessing that maybe that’s what was going on here, with the sympathizing. Personally I think even then, if you end up suffering too being on the receiving end of painful behaviors from in-acting, sensitive types, you have to take care of yourself just the same.
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