Pitfalls of trying to do good
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Pitfalls of trying to do good
I'm okay with many of my attempts to do good for the world, society and others but I there are so many times that I run into where my sincere attempts to help out and support fall flat.
One significant time was with my closest sister. We weren't getting along and I couldn't seem to overcome whatever it was that was making us have conflicts. After much time of thought and prayer I called her and suggested I fly to her state (hours away and expensive) and we both go see a therapist together. Her response was immediate, "That is the stupidest idea I have ever heard." Although this wasn't exactly kind nor tactful, it was exactly what I needed to hear. Without her saying this I would never have backed off. Since then I have come to understand the extent of her wounds and have a lot more respect for the situation. It has been humbling as I have realized that I just can't fix things between us.
I have a bunch of times like this where the right thing has been to back off, sit down and shut up. While I like the compassionate caring part of me, I really appreciate learning to do good by backing off.
Do any of you run into this sort of thing outside of relationships with Alcoholics? I'd like to hear your stories.
(Funny I've been on this forum for years and I don't think I have ever started a thread.)
One significant time was with my closest sister. We weren't getting along and I couldn't seem to overcome whatever it was that was making us have conflicts. After much time of thought and prayer I called her and suggested I fly to her state (hours away and expensive) and we both go see a therapist together. Her response was immediate, "That is the stupidest idea I have ever heard." Although this wasn't exactly kind nor tactful, it was exactly what I needed to hear. Without her saying this I would never have backed off. Since then I have come to understand the extent of her wounds and have a lot more respect for the situation. It has been humbling as I have realized that I just can't fix things between us.
I have a bunch of times like this where the right thing has been to back off, sit down and shut up. While I like the compassionate caring part of me, I really appreciate learning to do good by backing off.
Do any of you run into this sort of thing outside of relationships with Alcoholics? I'd like to hear your stories.
(Funny I've been on this forum for years and I don't think I have ever started a thread.)
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I think my experience with people who will not communicate is the relationship is pretty much - done (not comparing this with your situation of course, that is obviously much more complicated).
I had a situation once with a friend that I had met at work. We were really good friends, spent time together at work, in fact ended up sharing an office, had lunch together, spent time shopping etc after work.
She met someone and they started dating (he really was a jerk but I didn't share that info with her, so much so that when they decided to get married our other friend and I pondered doing an intervention!).
Anyway, one day (after they were married), out of the blue she, literally, stopped talking to me, as in went mute. How odd is that? Now the Husband didn't like me, I know this because of a couple of rude remarks he made to me while - yes you guessed it - drinking. So I could sit and talk to my friend who was say 10 feet away from me and she would look at me and not speak.
Few weeks later she started talking again! Out of the blue! So we went for lunch, she wouldn't discuss why she did what she did but I said, we can be friends but please promise to never do that again. She agreed.
Yes, you know where this story is going.
Few weeks later she stopped talking again, for no reason, again and that was that, we never spoke again. I requested a separate office and was given one.
People couldn't believe it.
So that's extreme and was irreversible because the other person involved became mute.
I did try to talk to her but I eventually got so frustrated talking to someone that wouldn't speak that I actually yelled at her once and even called her a B-.
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic but all that is to say, short of a family member, I wouldn't (now) even try to mend the relationship, I would just move on.
Oh and as an update, I looked him up on FB a couple of years ago just out of curiosity as she doesn't have a page and there they were, still together, amazing.
I had a situation once with a friend that I had met at work. We were really good friends, spent time together at work, in fact ended up sharing an office, had lunch together, spent time shopping etc after work.
She met someone and they started dating (he really was a jerk but I didn't share that info with her, so much so that when they decided to get married our other friend and I pondered doing an intervention!).
Anyway, one day (after they were married), out of the blue she, literally, stopped talking to me, as in went mute. How odd is that? Now the Husband didn't like me, I know this because of a couple of rude remarks he made to me while - yes you guessed it - drinking. So I could sit and talk to my friend who was say 10 feet away from me and she would look at me and not speak.
Few weeks later she started talking again! Out of the blue! So we went for lunch, she wouldn't discuss why she did what she did but I said, we can be friends but please promise to never do that again. She agreed.
Yes, you know where this story is going.
Few weeks later she stopped talking again, for no reason, again and that was that, we never spoke again. I requested a separate office and was given one.
People couldn't believe it.
So that's extreme and was irreversible because the other person involved became mute.
I did try to talk to her but I eventually got so frustrated talking to someone that wouldn't speak that I actually yelled at her once and even called her a B-.
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic but all that is to say, short of a family member, I wouldn't (now) even try to mend the relationship, I would just move on.
Oh and as an update, I looked him up on FB a couple of years ago just out of curiosity as she doesn't have a page and there they were, still together, amazing.
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Trailmix, it might be a bit off topic but still trying to repair a friendship when the friend doesn't want anything to do with you is a bit of misplaced do-goodism. I don't blame you at all for trying to talk or even yelling at her. Most of us don't go quietly into the night when relationships go south.
I have a cousin who hasn't spoken to her Mom in some two years or more. The mom, my aunt, has no idea what is going on. Aunt has told me, "Well you can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't want a relationship with you.". It is a simple concept but not so obvious until you are in the situation.
Thirty years ago, I might have been making phone calls and trying to fix things but I don't do that sort of thing now. It is their relationship . . . or rather . . .non-relationship. As much as I care about both of them, I know I can only make things worse not better.
I have a cousin who hasn't spoken to her Mom in some two years or more. The mom, my aunt, has no idea what is going on. Aunt has told me, "Well you can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't want a relationship with you.". It is a simple concept but not so obvious until you are in the situation.
Thirty years ago, I might have been making phone calls and trying to fix things but I don't do that sort of thing now. It is their relationship . . . or rather . . .non-relationship. As much as I care about both of them, I know I can only make things worse not better.
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A couple of friendships that fizzled out come to mind.
One friend was from a group of us at work. She had this thing, where if she got too close to someone, she’d start finding fault, and pulling away. I knew enough about her childhood and upbringing, that I did understand why she was the way she was. I saw her do this with a few mutual friends, before me. When she started doing that kind of thing to me (basically treating people like a shift at work she didn’t want to follow through on- she’s make plans, then cancel / “call out” on you last minute), I recognized what was going . She didn’t try to remedy the situation, and I tried a few times within reason with no results, so then I just left it alone after that.
Another long time friend did this thing where she didn’t seem like she could be in a relationship with a man, and carry on female friendships, simultaneously? Once a guy was involved, you kind of knew it was over. When she got married, that was it. She chose the guy, and there was no room in it for me.
I left both of those friends alone, and I’m okay with that. Alcohol or drugs weren’t involved in either case, but the second friend did have a lot of food and body image issues. To me, those relationship dynamics carried over from dysfunctional childhoods, and patterns of behavior, can easily be there regardless of whether alcohol or drugs are involved or not . When you come from trauma or dysfunction, if a person isn’t self aware, you’re going to get repeat of patterns of behavior in adulthood (or if you don’t seek out help to muddle through that stuff, it can go in the direction of some kind of “opposite” behavior that’s equally dysfunctional, but the flip side). Self aware and trying to do better, I can work with that. I did some flailing, and held on to things probably longer than I should have in my younger years, but at this point in my life, I do kind of know when to bow out.
One friend was from a group of us at work. She had this thing, where if she got too close to someone, she’d start finding fault, and pulling away. I knew enough about her childhood and upbringing, that I did understand why she was the way she was. I saw her do this with a few mutual friends, before me. When she started doing that kind of thing to me (basically treating people like a shift at work she didn’t want to follow through on- she’s make plans, then cancel / “call out” on you last minute), I recognized what was going . She didn’t try to remedy the situation, and I tried a few times within reason with no results, so then I just left it alone after that.
Another long time friend did this thing where she didn’t seem like she could be in a relationship with a man, and carry on female friendships, simultaneously? Once a guy was involved, you kind of knew it was over. When she got married, that was it. She chose the guy, and there was no room in it for me.
I left both of those friends alone, and I’m okay with that. Alcohol or drugs weren’t involved in either case, but the second friend did have a lot of food and body image issues. To me, those relationship dynamics carried over from dysfunctional childhoods, and patterns of behavior, can easily be there regardless of whether alcohol or drugs are involved or not . When you come from trauma or dysfunction, if a person isn’t self aware, you’re going to get repeat of patterns of behavior in adulthood (or if you don’t seek out help to muddle through that stuff, it can go in the direction of some kind of “opposite” behavior that’s equally dysfunctional, but the flip side). Self aware and trying to do better, I can work with that. I did some flailing, and held on to things probably longer than I should have in my younger years, but at this point in my life, I do kind of know when to bow out.
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This is important for me to read today. I’ve been puzzling over a friendship that seems to have gone south. This is someone I had been very close to for about five years. We work at the same organization, although not in the same department. She has a very strong personality - a lot of people find her “too much”, but I didn’t. We were both in long-distance relationships (not with each other!), so we were each other’s plus-one for lots of events.
Last year her partner (whom I really like) came to live here and also work in the same organization. They are together now and have become intensely focused on getting ahead professionally. From my perspective, it looks like their socializing has been narrowed to people who are useful for getting ahead (schmoozing and networking). I am not such a person.
I could see my friendship withering and wanted to make an effort to revive it - set up a lunch date which friend forgot about, then offered to make it up to me by getting together for dinner, then dinner turned into a dinner party at her place with me and also a couple of power-brokers from work - friend told me that having several people over for dinner at the same time was a good way to “check off the boxes” of people that she wanted to network with. I thought, okay, I’m now a box to be checked off, or an excuse for box-checking of other people. Writing, meet wall.
I’m sad because I really liked my friend. I think that if I had a dire emergency I could still count on her. But she’s no longer situationally available for the kind of relationship we had before, and I need to accept that this is the way it is.
Last year her partner (whom I really like) came to live here and also work in the same organization. They are together now and have become intensely focused on getting ahead professionally. From my perspective, it looks like their socializing has been narrowed to people who are useful for getting ahead (schmoozing and networking). I am not such a person.
I could see my friendship withering and wanted to make an effort to revive it - set up a lunch date which friend forgot about, then offered to make it up to me by getting together for dinner, then dinner turned into a dinner party at her place with me and also a couple of power-brokers from work - friend told me that having several people over for dinner at the same time was a good way to “check off the boxes” of people that she wanted to network with. I thought, okay, I’m now a box to be checked off, or an excuse for box-checking of other people. Writing, meet wall.
I’m sad because I really liked my friend. I think that if I had a dire emergency I could still count on her. But she’s no longer situationally available for the kind of relationship we had before, and I need to accept that this is the way it is.
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Sorry to hear this Sasha. That sounds rough along with everything else going on in your life.
Marriage and kids do seem to profoundly affect relationships although sounds like change of focus has changed it too.
Marriage and kids do seem to profoundly affect relationships although sounds like change of focus has changed it too.
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I'm sorry this happened to you, Bekindalways. You had a great plan and it's very sad that your SISTER shut you out like that.
I have a couple of sisters and don't know what I would do without them. Well, most of the time.
You tried. Not much else you can do (as you know).
Losing friends is difficult but sisters are SUPPOSED to always be there for each other. Very sad situation.
Your replies on these forums are always very thoughtful and KIND....you have the perfect nickname.
I have a couple of sisters and don't know what I would do without them. Well, most of the time.
You tried. Not much else you can do (as you know).
Losing friends is difficult but sisters are SUPPOSED to always be there for each other. Very sad situation.
Your replies on these forums are always very thoughtful and KIND....you have the perfect nickname.
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