Realizations and Learning More
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Realizations and Learning More
I moved out of XAF's house the other day, and was a hot, hot mess all day and the next day. Still hoping to find a more permanent living situation than four different places.
A mutual friend talked to him and he told her that he still loves me deeply, and he's just working the program. We had a couples counseling appointment already set up for next Thursday so I texted and asked if he was interested in going. He said no, that he was emotionally exhausted and figured I was too. My first reaction to that was panic.
A big part of my issues is ongoing anxiety with uncertainty. I was in a very abusive marriage for 25 years. Nothing was ever certain with him, and he took away things willy-nilly. My mom was an alcoholic, so chaos there, too. I can't stand not knowing what is coming next and just living in the quiet. I have never, in fact, ever lived anywhere but on a roller coaster. I don't know or have an example of a "normal" relationship.
I did two years in CR, and worked super hard on my codependency, but did not work on this anxiety/ability to be okay with uncertainty/needing reassurance. I figured I had myself under control (uh, no). I started going to Al-Anon and a meeting I went to two days ago was eye-opening afterward, and was compounded by last night's meeting. Here's what I realized (and sorry this is long!):
So after he said no on going to therapy, I took a deep, big girl breath. Then I prayed. And prayed again. I felt like we weren't getting anywhere in text, and I wanted to just sort of close things, if that was what we had to do. So I called him.
I didn't think he'd answer, but he did. He was definitely sober, which was nice to hear. The conversation was stiff and cold at first, but then I realized the only thing I can do is be accountable for myself. I can't harp on what he's doing or not doing, because that's not my responsibility.
I acknowledged that I had not handled his return from rehab as well as I could. I guess I sort of expected once he was sober all would be good (I know, I know). And when it wasn't, I panicked and overreacted. Note--I am NOT excusing his behavior, but again, it is not in my control. My saying that sort of broke down a wall between us and he acknowledged that he had been a jerk through this whole thing and he could have handled his end better.
It was a start. He made it clear he didn't want to get back together, and I had to take another big girl breath before I reacted to that. In my head, all I hear is I don't want you, I hate you, you're terrible when in reality he might be saying something different.
We talked some more about his sobriety (he has like 40 days), and he said that it was all he could do to go to work, go to AA and go to bed. He doesn't want ANY relationships right now, not just no relationship with me. Another big girl breath moment, because the anxious side of me is dying for answers, and I can't have any.
We ended it cordially. No talk of anything in the future. I worked on being okay with the not knowing. That's the part that makes me crazy--not knowing what will be around the corner or where I will be next week, next month, next year. Wanting to shake an answer out of him when he doesn't have any.
Then I read something in my Al-Anon book today about how long it took the person to work through their issues from 25 years of drinking. I realized I have spent 6 years working through what my first marriage did to me, and I still have a long ways to go (although I have made huge strides, I do know that). So maybe just time and space is good all around.
I still love him, the sober him, and I still have hope that that man will be back. I'm not waiting for him, but I'm not rushing out to find someone else either. I'm just learning to take big girl breaths and be...okay.
A mutual friend talked to him and he told her that he still loves me deeply, and he's just working the program. We had a couples counseling appointment already set up for next Thursday so I texted and asked if he was interested in going. He said no, that he was emotionally exhausted and figured I was too. My first reaction to that was panic.
A big part of my issues is ongoing anxiety with uncertainty. I was in a very abusive marriage for 25 years. Nothing was ever certain with him, and he took away things willy-nilly. My mom was an alcoholic, so chaos there, too. I can't stand not knowing what is coming next and just living in the quiet. I have never, in fact, ever lived anywhere but on a roller coaster. I don't know or have an example of a "normal" relationship.
I did two years in CR, and worked super hard on my codependency, but did not work on this anxiety/ability to be okay with uncertainty/needing reassurance. I figured I had myself under control (uh, no). I started going to Al-Anon and a meeting I went to two days ago was eye-opening afterward, and was compounded by last night's meeting. Here's what I realized (and sorry this is long!):
So after he said no on going to therapy, I took a deep, big girl breath. Then I prayed. And prayed again. I felt like we weren't getting anywhere in text, and I wanted to just sort of close things, if that was what we had to do. So I called him.
I didn't think he'd answer, but he did. He was definitely sober, which was nice to hear. The conversation was stiff and cold at first, but then I realized the only thing I can do is be accountable for myself. I can't harp on what he's doing or not doing, because that's not my responsibility.
I acknowledged that I had not handled his return from rehab as well as I could. I guess I sort of expected once he was sober all would be good (I know, I know). And when it wasn't, I panicked and overreacted. Note--I am NOT excusing his behavior, but again, it is not in my control. My saying that sort of broke down a wall between us and he acknowledged that he had been a jerk through this whole thing and he could have handled his end better.
It was a start. He made it clear he didn't want to get back together, and I had to take another big girl breath before I reacted to that. In my head, all I hear is I don't want you, I hate you, you're terrible when in reality he might be saying something different.
We talked some more about his sobriety (he has like 40 days), and he said that it was all he could do to go to work, go to AA and go to bed. He doesn't want ANY relationships right now, not just no relationship with me. Another big girl breath moment, because the anxious side of me is dying for answers, and I can't have any.
We ended it cordially. No talk of anything in the future. I worked on being okay with the not knowing. That's the part that makes me crazy--not knowing what will be around the corner or where I will be next week, next month, next year. Wanting to shake an answer out of him when he doesn't have any.
Then I read something in my Al-Anon book today about how long it took the person to work through their issues from 25 years of drinking. I realized I have spent 6 years working through what my first marriage did to me, and I still have a long ways to go (although I have made huge strides, I do know that). So maybe just time and space is good all around.
I still love him, the sober him, and I still have hope that that man will be back. I'm not waiting for him, but I'm not rushing out to find someone else either. I'm just learning to take big girl breaths and be...okay.
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TriStrong…...I left you a post on your o ther thread.
It is good to hear that you are gaining strength and validation from your alanon meetings. Given that you h ave lived your entire life impacted by alcoholics....I suggest that you might read the literature from "Adult Children of Alcoholics and dysfunctional families"...….(it will not conflict with alanon). I think so much of it will really resonate with you. You can get their literature and their Big Book on amazon.com....and your local library,of course.
Your X is right.....he is in early recovery and it is way too soon for him to be in any kind of relationship....much less couples therapy....early Genuine recovery takes along time....1-2-3-4-5 years, depending on who you talk to....
His future has not unfolded, yet....
And...neither has yours....You know what your past has entailed...but, your future has not unfolded, yet....and, you don't know what joys of life lie ahead.
You past has been steeped in the behaviors of the alcoholics around you....but, Do Not Let The Past Define Your Future!! You can move beyond ALL of that. Have the will do so.....you can do it.
Everything that you need to have a fulfilling life, resides within you, right now. You just haven't been aware of it......
It is good to hear that you are gaining strength and validation from your alanon meetings. Given that you h ave lived your entire life impacted by alcoholics....I suggest that you might read the literature from "Adult Children of Alcoholics and dysfunctional families"...….(it will not conflict with alanon). I think so much of it will really resonate with you. You can get their literature and their Big Book on amazon.com....and your local library,of course.
Your X is right.....he is in early recovery and it is way too soon for him to be in any kind of relationship....much less couples therapy....early Genuine recovery takes along time....1-2-3-4-5 years, depending on who you talk to....
His future has not unfolded, yet....
And...neither has yours....You know what your past has entailed...but, your future has not unfolded, yet....and, you don't know what joys of life lie ahead.
You past has been steeped in the behaviors of the alcoholics around you....but, Do Not Let The Past Define Your Future!! You can move beyond ALL of that. Have the will do so.....you can do it.
Everything that you need to have a fulfilling life, resides within you, right now. You just haven't been aware of it......
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And for the record, I waver between crippling sadness and missing him and outright anger that he kicked me out. Did he even think about how that would impact my finances and my life? Probably not. Part of me wants to text him or call him and tell him off for that (especially when I can't find something and realize it could be one of four locations). But what good will that do? It will only serve to create more drama and BS, and won't make him leap to making amends. Nor will it change what is. Frustrating.
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Originally Posted by TriStrong 
That's the part that makes me crazy--not knowing what will be around the corner or where I will be next week, next month, next year. Wanting to shake an answer out of him when he doesn't have any.
You want to know what the plan is but you are looking to him for the plan and his plan is all about him. I would suggest that your plan be all about you. You hold the key to next week, next month and next year, not him.
I know that this is really early days and you are still grappling with breaking up with your XAF, so that's a tall order, but it won't happen over night, it will be something you can just work on a bit each day. He obviously has no answers - so that's out, you hold the answers.
Actual concrete things you can do are taking care of yourself. Number one priority is getting a place to live, is that in the works now? I don't know what your family's financial situation is like but is there a possibility someone would lend you the money for your first month's rent etc? I'm sure it's the last thing you want to do but perhaps this is a time you could lean on others a bit?
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I can tell you from my experience that trying to have a relationship with an addict guarantees front row seat on the wildest roller coaster ride ever. One place it does all lead is off the charts levels of anxiety & uncertainty.
Generally speaking I have a very stable life. I have a lot to be thankful for. However, over the course of time during the relationship with my addict (her) my life became totally messed up & destabilized.
Houses, cars, money, etc all the typical things which help to create a normal stable life meant absolutely nothing vs her addictions.
I don't think your going to find happiness & stability with this guy. Every interaction is going to be very painful. Our addicts are what they are. They don't make quality relationship material.
Generally speaking I have a very stable life. I have a lot to be thankful for. However, over the course of time during the relationship with my addict (her) my life became totally messed up & destabilized.
Houses, cars, money, etc all the typical things which help to create a normal stable life meant absolutely nothing vs her addictions.
I don't think your going to find happiness & stability with this guy. Every interaction is going to be very painful. Our addicts are what they are. They don't make quality relationship material.
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Originally Posted by HardLessons
I don't think your going to find happiness & stability with this guy. Every interaction is going to be very painful. Our addicts are what they are. They don't make quality relationship material.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
And yes, this is the part that will make you feel crazy. Depending on him for anything. We can all say good for him for getting sober and it is good, of course - has nothing to do with you though and helps you not one bit. The selfish guy you left, is still totally self absorbed.
You want to know what the plan is but you are looking to him for the plan and his plan is all about him. I would suggest that your plan be all about you. You hold the key to next week, next month and next year, not him.
I know that this is really early days and you are still grappling with breaking up with your XAF, so that's a tall order, but it won't happen over night, it will be something you can just work on a bit each day. He obviously has no answers - so that's out, you hold the answers.
Actual concrete things you can do are taking care of yourself. Number one priority is getting a place to live, is that in the works now? I don't know what your family's financial situation is like but is there a possibility someone would lend you the money for your first month's rent etc? I'm sure it's the last thing you want to do but perhaps this is a time you could lean on others a bit?
You want to know what the plan is but you are looking to him for the plan and his plan is all about him. I would suggest that your plan be all about you. You hold the key to next week, next month and next year, not him.
I know that this is really early days and you are still grappling with breaking up with your XAF, so that's a tall order, but it won't happen over night, it will be something you can just work on a bit each day. He obviously has no answers - so that's out, you hold the answers.
Actual concrete things you can do are taking care of yourself. Number one priority is getting a place to live, is that in the works now? I don't know what your family's financial situation is like but is there a possibility someone would lend you the money for your first month's rent etc? I'm sure it's the last thing you want to do but perhaps this is a time you could lean on others a bit?
It's just so hard.
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Maybe he is sober now He tells you he is sober now.
Lets say he is sober now, how is his short term sobriety working out for you & your relationship with him. From what you wrote. doesn't seem like he is very interested in you or your welfare.
Long term prognosis - who knows. Certainly wont be dependent on your feelings for him - no matter how strong they are.
TS save yourself - he isn't going to do it for you. How can you ever place trust in this guy again?
Lets say he is sober now, how is his short term sobriety working out for you & your relationship with him. From what you wrote. doesn't seem like he is very interested in you or your welfare.
Long term prognosis - who knows. Certainly wont be dependent on your feelings for him - no matter how strong they are.
TS save yourself - he isn't going to do it for you. How can you ever place trust in this guy again?
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TriSrong…...It is so important to learn all you can about the course and nature of alcoholism.....so that you know the true reality. Alcoholism doesn't get "cured"....it is for a lifetime. It can be put into remission if the alcoholic is strongly motivated to vigorously work a program of recovery, like AA.
One has to live the principles of the program...which requires a major life style shift for most people. It can take years to change a person's thinking, and attitudes and actions. These are deep changes.
Most alcoholics who have a long history of drinking take more than one attempt at sobriety before they are able to commit.
The thing is....and this is very important....alcoholism is progressive...meaning that even with long periods of sobriety....the disease appears with each relapse to be worse than before.
Even with long term sobriety....like 5, 10, 15 years of sobriety---one can relapse and it will be just as bad as before.
To be with an alcoholic, lifelong, means that one will never know when that shoe will drop, again.
I think that you have been through enough in your life with alcoholism that you deserve to be with a more predictable and stable relationship.
You seem, to me, like you have paid enough dues!!
One has to live the principles of the program...which requires a major life style shift for most people. It can take years to change a person's thinking, and attitudes and actions. These are deep changes.
Most alcoholics who have a long history of drinking take more than one attempt at sobriety before they are able to commit.
The thing is....and this is very important....alcoholism is progressive...meaning that even with long periods of sobriety....the disease appears with each relapse to be worse than before.
Even with long term sobriety....like 5, 10, 15 years of sobriety---one can relapse and it will be just as bad as before.
To be with an alcoholic, lifelong, means that one will never know when that shoe will drop, again.
I think that you have been through enough in your life with alcoholism that you deserve to be with a more predictable and stable relationship.
You seem, to me, like you have paid enough dues!!
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I don't want any of you to be right, HardLessons and Trailmix. I don't want to accept this, and I don't know how to quit hoping and quit being in love with him. I'm trying, I really am, but we literally went from him asking me to run off and get married three weeks ago to this. I keep wondering what I did wrong, if I should have stayed, if there was something I could say. I know, I know, that is the insanity of this, but my brain keeps circling back and back and back.
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Trust me when I say I also don't want any of it to be right for you or me.
I tried everything with her. I tried so hard for years to make it work until I had nothing left inside me. I would have given anything for "the" answer to make the relationship work.
I was once exactly where you are now. I was deeply in love with a very damaged woman who is an addict. My life was almost destroyed because of it.
I am very sorry for where you are now. But for me looking at where you are now, its just a clear reminder of how destructive addiction really is not only to the addict but also anyone in close proximity.
You cant change the past. You also cant change him. He is what he is. Your sleeping on someone's sofa because he is what he is.
You don't have to stop loving him. You do need a realistic understanding of what that love is.
I tried everything with her. I tried so hard for years to make it work until I had nothing left inside me. I would have given anything for "the" answer to make the relationship work.
I was once exactly where you are now. I was deeply in love with a very damaged woman who is an addict. My life was almost destroyed because of it.
I am very sorry for where you are now. But for me looking at where you are now, its just a clear reminder of how destructive addiction really is not only to the addict but also anyone in close proximity.
You cant change the past. You also cant change him. He is what he is. Your sleeping on someone's sofa because he is what he is.
You don't have to stop loving him. You do need a realistic understanding of what that love is.
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Unfortunately, the fact that in three weeks you can go from talking about marriage to ‘this’ is all the proof you actually need how this relationship is unstable and nothing of a real substance! Really sorry about that but its a fact! I was engaged already for some time and we set up a date for the wedding etc. and it still went completely crumbling down IN A SPLIT SECOND when I asked him to quit.
So that speaks loads! Hope you know what Im sayin’
So that speaks loads! Hope you know what Im sayin’
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We have been engaged for a year, Fionna. I put the wedding on hold when he went to rehab. He got out, told me how grateful he was for me, how much he loved me, and asked me to get married right away. I said, uh, let's get 30 days under you first. I don't know what made the switch in his brain from seeing me as perfect to seeing me as the enemy.
HardLessons, you are right (I kinda hate you for that, just kidding). Sigh.
HardLessons, you are right (I kinda hate you for that, just kidding). Sigh.
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TriStrong…….the kind of rumination and obsessive thoughts that you describe sound like one of the common stages of the grieving process....and, I believe that you are grieving what, to you, feels like a very majpr loss. One always grieves as part of healing (eventually) from significant losses.
I can remember ruminating until I was nearly exhausted from it....
It will probably take you weeks to several months to move through the various emotions of the grieving process.....so, give yourself a lot of leeway....
This is "normal" for where you are...normal and natural....
It won't always feel this way.....especially so as you dig in and move forward into your new life!
I can remember ruminating until I was nearly exhausted from it....
It will probably take you weeks to several months to move through the various emotions of the grieving process.....so, give yourself a lot of leeway....
This is "normal" for where you are...normal and natural....
It won't always feel this way.....especially so as you dig in and move forward into your new life!
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TriStrong…..I can't help but notice that the way you "hate" those who suggest that this may not be a good person for your life (even if you do feel in love with him)….is the same way that alcoholics "hate" those who tell them that alcohol should not be a part of their lives...….
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TS
I think I am very smart in a lot of various aspects of life. When it comes to all of this addict relationship stuff I am about as dumb as they come. I made just about every mistake there is to make.
Thankfully by the grace of god she has pretty much left me alone, or I might be still making major mistakes.
Its our own denial that can keep us stuck in such a hellish place.
You can figure this out in a healthy way if you want too. It wont be easy but you can do it.
BTW After all I have been through with her - I don't hate her. She is what she is. I do hate addiction. It totally sucks.
I think I am very smart in a lot of various aspects of life. When it comes to all of this addict relationship stuff I am about as dumb as they come. I made just about every mistake there is to make.
Thankfully by the grace of god she has pretty much left me alone, or I might be still making major mistakes.
Its our own denial that can keep us stuck in such a hellish place.
You can figure this out in a healthy way if you want too. It wont be easy but you can do it.
BTW After all I have been through with her - I don't hate her. She is what she is. I do hate addiction. It totally sucks.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
TriStrong…..I can't help but notice that the way you "hate" those who suggest that this may not be a good person for your life (even if you do feel in love with him)….is the same way that alcoholics "hate" those who tell them that alcohol should not be a part of their lives...….
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Originally Posted by HardLessons
TS
I think I am very smart in a lot of various aspects of life. When it comes to all of this addict relationship stuff I am about as dumb as they come. I made just about every mistake there is to make.
Thankfully by the grace of god she has pretty much left me alone, or I might be still making major mistakes.
Its our own denial that can keep us stuck in such a hellish place.
You can figure this out in a healthy way if you want too. It wont be easy but you can do it.
BTW After all I have been through with her - I don't hate her. She is what she is. I do hate addiction. It totally sucks.
I think I am very smart in a lot of various aspects of life. When it comes to all of this addict relationship stuff I am about as dumb as they come. I made just about every mistake there is to make.
Thankfully by the grace of god she has pretty much left me alone, or I might be still making major mistakes.
Its our own denial that can keep us stuck in such a hellish place.
You can figure this out in a healthy way if you want too. It wont be easy but you can do it.
BTW After all I have been through with her - I don't hate her. She is what she is. I do hate addiction. It totally sucks.
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TriStrong…...there may be a strange silver lining to this that you might not be able to realize, right now. What feels like a "death knell" to you, right now, will probably be your saving grace. It will make it easier for you to finally let go of what could bring you even more heartache in your future.
In my most difficult breakup, several years ago....the same kind of thing happened to me. He ended a nearly 4yr. relationship because I couldn't have any more children. We had planned to have children when he finished medical school (I already had three from my first marriage)...or adopt children.
He announced that he couldn't face not having his own biologic children, and would have to end the relationship....just before he moved to a distant city to begin his surgical residence!!
Needless to say, I was crushed and grieved big time.
Now, I thank him for doing what I could never have done at that time.....he moved far away and made any hopes of reconciliation an impossibility.
He gave me a gift. I had no choice but to pull the bandaid completely off and grieve the loss. I KNOW that I could not have done that completely of my own accord.
By the way. six months later, I met the man who was to become my most wonderful and loving husband. Imaging that!? If the first guy hadn't left me, I would never have met the most wonderful love in my life.....
In my most difficult breakup, several years ago....the same kind of thing happened to me. He ended a nearly 4yr. relationship because I couldn't have any more children. We had planned to have children when he finished medical school (I already had three from my first marriage)...or adopt children.
He announced that he couldn't face not having his own biologic children, and would have to end the relationship....just before he moved to a distant city to begin his surgical residence!!
Needless to say, I was crushed and grieved big time.
Now, I thank him for doing what I could never have done at that time.....he moved far away and made any hopes of reconciliation an impossibility.
He gave me a gift. I had no choice but to pull the bandaid completely off and grieve the loss. I KNOW that I could not have done that completely of my own accord.
By the way. six months later, I met the man who was to become my most wonderful and loving husband. Imaging that!? If the first guy hadn't left me, I would never have met the most wonderful love in my life.....
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