bluelight44

Thank you Dazedandconfused. And congratulations for taking care of yourself too in signing the papers! Big hugs.

trailmix

I'm glad for you, that you are protecting yourself.

I know it hurts though. Yes, he does seem to have times of clarity. I think that can go either way. Hopefully, one day that clarity will pull him out of addiction, or, it might just get squelched by addiction, I hope not, time will tell.

In the meantime, you don't have to be part of that struggle, it's not yours and you do not deserve to be treated like that, ever, by anyone and I hope if it ever happens again that you run like the wind. I think you will.

As for him not having the tools, well maybe he doesn't but he knows where they are if he ever wants them. There are AA meetings every day and all he has to do is walk in to one and ask for help. So yes, it's sad but he wants to continue drinking and drink he will.

bluelight44

Thank you TrailMix.
Yes he has done AA, and was even a secretary with his last sober time of 1.5 yrs. There is a meeting next door to his apartment building! But he despises AA and does not agree with most of it and went on and on about that today.

But I do hope he chooses another path one day. And only time will tell. It feels good to be cut off from his struggle. It was dragging me down so much!

I am heart broken and crushed, but I just need to remember I walked away from the addiction, which is in full possession of him. And me walking away is the best I can do for the situation whether or not it has a positive effect.

trailmix

Don't want to dwell on this but you can add it to your list. What - bs. He went there for a year and a half, was sober, was healing, was a secretary.

Now he hates them and they are trash. Funny that. Translation: he's not quitting anytime soon.

As for you, it's just going to take time. You have already starting separating yourself from this relationship, so that's good.

I'm just glad you aren't going to do this for years!

Be extra kind to yourself. Post here whenever you feel like it, want to hash it out, like now. It does help to discuss things. Also I would recommend reading other threads here, if you aren't already and more of the stickies if you haven't read them all. It helps to keep you focused on why you are doing what you are doing.

Ariesagain

Well done, you! Please don’t hesitate to post when you need a boost, though, yes? Dreams die hard.

And, being a scarred old cynic, I’m going to suggest that you be prepared for when he comes back around, okay? Narcissists don’t tolerate being dumped well and “I won’t be in a relationship with active alcoholism” has potential loopholes. So I can see him coming around in a month, claiming he’s been sober all that time, has even been to meetings, blablabla. If he’s like my XAB2, his real objective is only to get back together long enough to punish you and then dump YOU.

And while I’m being all Sally Sunshine...he may well find another “love of his life” incredibly quickly. And you’ll hear about it and how magical and betterer it is than with you. Been there.

Blocking him is your friend, yes?

Bekindalways

^^^^ This from another scarred old cynic. I hope not and perhaps he will go quietly off somewhere far away but often it isn't that easy.

Thanks fo the update Blue. Let us know how you get on. This can be a tough time. Just keep getting through the days and hours. You will heal but it will take time.

bluelight44

Thank you everyone. Being able to come here and post is like having a room full of friends.

It's a struggle of course and I find myself wanting to send him life savers as it were... I'm wanting to send him here to the SR website (is that a terrible idea?) or YouTube talks or Ted talks on spirituality and depression, etc- something to help him have a glimpse of light. Because I hear him saying he wants help... but I know I can't help him. Only he can. I know the 3 Cs.

But what if a little nudge would be helpful?? In fact he said that once- that he knows he is in a dark place and that he needs a gentle nudge into the light.... so tonight I am struggling with this- do I ignore these urges I'm having and let him be (yes, probably). Or do I one day send him a gentle nudge? I feel like I am abandoning a wounded soul/ person.

I will say that he generally gives me space when he knows I need it. I am not sure he will continue to pester me into the future or try to get back together to eventually dump me. He does have a fragile ego, but I think he wants to be together more than anything else (except maybe for his drinking :/).
I don't think he has been this heart broken in a long long time, if ever.

dandylion

bluelight…..If you left a person in the desert with no water and no transportation and no cell phone...delibertly….that would be desertion.
You are not "deserting" him. He is not alone...he has a whole world of recovery community at his hand...and, he knows where it is. He want an enabler, like you...who will make his life comfy at the sacrifice of her own self....who will be the willing victim of his cruel actions.

If you give into your impulses to rescue him from himself...you will just be doing the ole intermittent reinforcement of your own pain. the most powerful form of reinforcement (google intermittent reinforcement)…..

Plus, you do not have the power to save him or help him. You can't have the objectivity that you would need....
that "voice" that you are hearing in your head, right now, is like the alcoholic voice inside the head of the alcoholc...always whispering...."go ahead,,,,take just one drink...it will be o.k.".....
Turn it off..Don't listen to it. It will just lead you back into the belly of the beast of an abusive relationship.....

Ariesagain

As gently as I can...you’re again assuming that you know how he’s feeling.

And if being with you was that overwhelmingly important to him, he wouldn’t have been so utterly nasty to you. I am willing to bet big money that you’d be still be there wrestling with the alcoholism (and trying to solve it for him ) if he hadn’t also been repeatedly insulting, manipulative, cruel, argumentative, and just plain rude.

He consciously chose to treat you that way, over and over. So please, please don’t forget that or somehow recast him as some lost puppy, okay?

Bekindalways

I so get the wanting to give that nudge . . . .however this is just a delusion fed by our codependency. We can make it worse by getting involved but we can't make it better.

Also there is a bit of an insult to the addict when we try to help. Give him the compliment of believing he is completely capable of looking for any help he wants. He is perfectly capable of finding professionals or sober alcoholics to support him.

This is tough stuff Blue. Take care of yourself.

bluelight44

Thank you all. <3
I know I am doing the right thing and that I cannot get involved with trying to help him. It is so hard to resist that.... I can't believe this is like a drug/ addiction for us too.

I have watched videos on intermittent reinforcement, and I have definitely been caught up in that. I have voiced to him I can't be around the drinking as early as back in June, I believe. Almost 3 months of trying to understand what to do!

I am just so worried he is going to drink more (or to his death....) because of the intensity of me leaving. I know it's not my fault or responsibility, but that's where my thoughts go. I am sooooo torn up and sad.

trailmix

I'm sure he has said many things about getting "better", about how destructive alcohol is to his life, how he doesn't want to drink but how can he cope without it? Yet he continues to drink. That battle is inside him, nothing you can say can fix that.

This here. Nothing you say is something he hasn't already thought of and I'm absolutely sure you have had those talks and given him that gentle nudge and discussed that light. Yet nothing changes because he's just not ready, within his own self/mind. You can't get through that, no matter now much you might like to.

You would like him to choose sobriety, you see the battle, you hear it and therein lies another hook. If you have read other threads you know this can go on for years. Imagine being 5-10 years down the road and nothing has changed. Well things would have, the alcoholism would have progressed.

He is in that struggle and you don't know when or what he will choose and you have no power to help him choose. Pointing him to new information will be of no use. He has the internet, he has AA next door, he has a phone, he knows where help is, he just doesn't want it (and honestly that is his choice).

I think sometimes people get hung up on the - well he can't know what he wants, what he's doing is insane! His judgement is impaired! So you want to step in and be the brains of the operation. If only it were that simple.

Remember the person you would be giving this information to is the same person you have tried to reason with.

trailmix

That's normal and natural, how you are feeling. You have worried about him for months now, just because you ended the relationship doesn't mean you will magically stop caring. You will need time for the fog to clear (fear, obligation, guilt).

But - and this is a bit but - it's also important to keep reminding yourself of the reality.

This is not some normal guy that you had a rocky relationship with and left. He is an addict. His reactions to you, his treatment of you his lack of care in this relationship is real. The horrible way he treated/treats you, is real.

What makes you think he might drink himself to death over this? Did he say he wanted to kill himself?

You said to him, in no uncertain terms, it's me or the alcohol. He chose the alcohol. Now he would like to have both, you and the alcohol, but since he can't?

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.

bluelight44

Thank you for this link, TrailMix!

Really great article!

Yes, I need to keep remembering this is not a normal relationship with a normal guy... where you might have a level headed conversation about splitting up.

It is clear he is deep into his addiction as this article describes the pathology. Thank you that was very helpful to read and remember what I have been dealing with.

trailmix

Yes, but taking it a step further, nothing changes until it changes.

If love, caring, talking, support, doing everything for an addict to "fix" them - worked, this forum and this site would be very, very quiet.

First the addict has to choose recovery, for themselves. Then they will need help, especially if they are as deep in to the addiction as you have described him to be.

You cannot help him. Unless you are a psychiatrist, perhaps, even then, you are too close to this to be effective and I doubt talking to one right now would help him at all.

All that aside, if you choose to try to "rescue" him, you will be taking on the role of his Mom or caretaker, won't that be great!

He has chosen to drink and that is his prerogative. You can't change someone in to someone or something they can't or don't want to be and really it's a tad arrogant and disrespectful to try (said with kindness). No one likes to be controlled.

If you try to get between his drug and him - look out.

suki44883

I read a post of yours yesterday and you sounded so strong and confident that you were done with this relationship. Then, you returned his call and suddenly you are doubting yourself. The obvious solution for you is to have no contact with him.

No new contact = no new hurts or confusion.

bluelight44

Thank you- I know you are right. I think what happens is when being around him drinking or in his foul moods is recent, I feel much stronger in myself with walking away from it. But yesterday on the phone he was apologetic, acknowledging his behavior- all the things I need to hear that get my heart sucked back in. (Guilty as charged!)

Because I do believe he means well and I really don't think he is a bad person. I find it all so sad that he can't function in a way to help himself.... I know I need to get over the sad hurt puppy idea.

dandylion

bluelist…...on of the most useful things during this time, that we frequently recommend on here, is to make a list of the very worst things he said or did to you....and, how it made you FEEL. at the time....
Keep it o n paper...not on a tablet. Carry it at all times---and, read it over and over, every time you get weak in the knees. Even if it is a dozen times a day.
That will cut through you selective recall...
Right now, anger is a good motivator for you.....use it. It is hard to be angry and sad at the same exact time....

No one is doubting that his situation is a sad one....and, no one is trying to wipe out your compassion....just keep it in check so that it doesnt' undermine yourself.....

***by the way..."paper" are thin sheets, made from wood products, that people used to write on....with an instrument, called a "pencil"...again, a wood product with lead in the tip of it.....
This was all before computers and tablets....back when people talked with their voices, and not their fingers...LOL!

trailmix

It is sad, it really is. You see this person who perhaps deep down has all the attributes to be a good person, but that can't be because of this.

I hope what I said about arrogance and disrespect wasn't too harsh, I certainly don't intend to be mean.

You know, if I believed you could help this guy, I would absolutely be encouraging you. I'd give you any information I have and this board would also rally around! We aren't a bunch of grumps that have just lost all hope for alcoholics. So many here want to help, try different approaches etc etc and the times that has had any effect are so rare I can't even say - maybe twice? That I have seen. But I believe, that in all cases, it's still the addict that has to make that choice.

I have also read the half-assed attempts at sobriety that alcoholics make to try to save their relationships. Never lasts long and just keeps the roller coaster ride going a bit longer, until the "helper" is burnt out.

It's not just the hopelessness of trying to intervene on the addiction, it's really about what it does to you.

Where is your concern for yourself in worry about him?

Laur12