FWN

My therapist encouraged me for some time to take some time away from the situation, out of the house and out of the 'dance' of his drinking and apologizing and my forgiving etc. etc. to see if I can gain some perspective on what's really happening.

Best advice ever. In the past probably 2 months, I've spent about 20 or say days away from him. Looking through the lens of having an alcoholic husband (instead of it being me as the controlling wife who is crazy to think he has a problem and I am the one who needs to be fixed). I see things so clearly now and I'm just angry about it. I feel like I've been duped, almost the way someone would feel if they'd been cheated on forever.

I started going to therapy in 2016 because he made me feel controlling about his drinking and like I was totally crazy and I remember most of the sessions just being me going through the most recent situations with his drinking I'd had and me asking the therapist 'am I really crazy?' 'is this reasonable'? and always ending up in the same place with my husband back at home. I'm the controlling wife who is crazy for thinking his drinking is a problem. Yes I know he's 'functional' at work, but he sure isn't functional at home as a husband. Yes I know he's stressed, but he needs to find another coping mechanism or I'm OUT.

On this last trip away, I told my parents about the situation. My dad's initial reaction after getting over the disappointment was to move out and serve my husband divorce papers and get on with this since we've been dealing with it for so long. That will either drive him to quit drinking or it'll push him further down the hole. I'm not quite there yet.

But what I am going to do... he gets back from a work trip tomorrow. And I'm done negotiating with him. DONE with his screw ups and 'please forgive me's I'll do better'. This is insanity. I'm not talking to my husband anymore, I'm talking to his addicted brain and he needs to educate himself on his problem and fix it or I'm moving on.

There's an intensive outpatient program here in town. I'm going to send him the information and he needs to either do this program because he's serious about quitting and destroying our family, or he'll show me he's not serious and we'll separate. What other choice do I have at this point? I'm so TIRED of the dance. He says 'you sprung this on me suddenly where I have to totally QUIT' when I've been begging him all along to deal with this alcohol problem and he's turning it back on me. This isn't new information, dear husband. It's only new to you now because I finally have lost the blinders and will no longer play this stupid game with you.

This is how I'm feeling at the moment. I don't like feeling duped or taken advantage of, this has been going on too long and has to stop for my own sanity and well being.

dandylion

fwn…...I am glad that you are getting a better perspective on this...for yourself.
I would add that I think it would be a good idea to learn what true recovery looks like and behaves like....because, otherwise, it gives fertile ground for him to manipulate you and suck you back into the merry-go-round.....

Remember the difference between a boundary and a rule for him.
People...alcoholics, included....don't usually respond well when someone gives them a "rule" to live by....one that is dictated by another person.
Those who feel like they are railroaded into a rehab program...to get a loved o ne off their back....It usually backfires. The alcoholic needs to arrive at the decision that they want to be sober for themselves.
It is true, that, on occasion, an alcoholic can have a moment of clarity where they will decide to embrace sobriety in a fully committed way....but, you can't count on if and when that might happen. Rehab is not a magic wand.

fwn...I know that you want him sober and you would like to get this all locked down.....but, I think you need to have a well educated sense of reality about what genuine, like long sobriety looks like.....
He, obviously doesn't know...but, YOU do need to know so that you will not be "duped" again...…

I hate to sound like a negative Nellie....but, I do believe that ----
Knowledge is power.

FWN

What's a good resource to read that explains 'recovery' behavior? EDIT: ah ha! found the sticky at the top of this forum.

In one of my previous posts, I explained that his 'plan' in the next few weeks was to find an outpatient rehab and start it. Which is a joke because in that same plan he was going to attend ONE AA meeting while I was on my last trip. And he did not.

But he has admitted he has a problem, but he CLEARLY has not done any reading on the subject because he keeps coming up with his own 'plans' to fix it that include 'cheat nights' as if this is a diet change or something.

So hard. Because I'm trying to decide in the next month or so if I should move my family back home so I can have my 3rd child back in my hometown with family and friends, or if we should stay here and try to ride out his road to recovery. You're right, I don't know what to expect. I'm very likely naive.

mylifeismine

Recovery is a difficult time for the addict and the partner. I agree
with Dandylion (I think) who says the best arrangement is to
live apart the first year. The addict is so fragile and trying to
deal with reality without alcohol/drugs. It's hard for the spouse
not to believe everything will be fine now. It won't. In reality,
it's a difficult transition with lots of ups and downs. For a spouse
who is at the end of her patience, angry and ready for it all to go
away (understandably!) -- it's going to take time, alot of time.

This is a best case scenario- with an addict who WANTS sobriety.

dandylion

fwn…..this is my best advice, for your purposes.....find an alcoholism counselor that is ALSO a long-recovering alcoholic himself....like, several years recovery....like 5, 10, 15yrs...I believe that is essential that they be long recovering. If you don't know anyone...I suggest calling the local AA organization and ask them to refer you to such person...they probably can do that....
When I first started working with alcoholics, I was lucky enough to work along side professionals that were also long recovering alcoholics...Psychiatrists, psychologists, technicians....etc. Although I had a medical background and had taken physical care of alcoholics...I knew practically nothing about the disease.....I learned more from those alcoholics than I could find in any books...lol...
They can fill you in on the true realities....and, how long it takes....

As far as books....I am sure that you must have read "Co-dependent No More", by now.....
A book for understanding exactly what happens inside of the alcoholic brain and how it ties to behaviors....You might like
"The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar….It contains recent research pn the matter. You can get a reduced price for a used one on amazon.com

You are somewhat under the gun...because you want/need to make a decision, soon.....at least, you want to make a decision....
I highly suggest that you talk to an alcoholism counselor, such as I suggested, for, at least several sessions....(in addition to your regular counselor)….

Be aware that this is going to be a lengthy process, any way you cut it.....whether you decide to ride it out with him....in the same home...or, near your family and friends....
I think that you really could use immediate support and guidance with an experienced person.....the sooner, the better....
I suggest that you go alone for the first few visits....and, let the recovering alcoholism counselor decide if he wants to see your husband, or not.....(to see what you are up against)…..

Zevin

Do what is best for YOU and your kids. Getting ready to have a baby and facing all of this has to be so so hard.
I'd suggest staying close to your family and friends until the baby is born. It sounds like you have a great support system with them and that's what you will need.
Not a husband arguing/debating over the finer points of his alcoholism denial and his nonsensical plan for recovery.
Rehab would be great. He has the information, you've set boundaries and are getting out of the dance. Good job!!
It's up to him now.

atalose

From what you have shared I don’t see him on any path/road to recovery just lots of “words” about it. Alcoholics favorite word is “probably” because it implies intention where in fact none exists. Alcoholics who tell you they will probably do something is highly unlikely to do it. But using words like these provides them a loop hole, an escape hatch in which no absolutes are given and no promise made. They rely on words like, possibly, maybe, would, could, should I’d like to, I want to, I need to. These words mean nothing and almost always lead to disappointment.

I personally think if this were me in the situation and knowing what I know today about alcoholism I would be packing up and moving back to family where I would have their support while I had my 3rd child. I would think staying to SEE what might happen with someone who’s used an awful lot of words over the last several weeks with no actions, zip, none, nodda would make my decision pretty easy for me.

AnvilheadII

There's an intensive outpatient program here in town. I'm going to send him the information and he needs to either do this program because he's serious about quitting and destroying our family, or he'll show me he's not serious and we'll separate. What other choice do I have at this point?

so here's the thing. let's say you send him this info. then what? how long does he have to sign up? 2 days? 2 weeks? and even if he did sign up and attend, that is NO guarantee that he will stop drinking. nor is there any guarantee that if he managed to attend every class and complete the program that he would stop drinking.

as many have said, early (actual) recovery is tough sledding. head up to the Newcomers section to get a "fly on the wall" peek into what it's like. there is a lot more to learning to live life on life's terms without alcohol or drugs to grease the skids than just NOT using.

but no recovery can start UNTIL the using stops. slowing down, tapering, drinking only on days then end in Y, is still being in active addiction. at some point there has to be a leap of faith. like jumping out of a perfectly good airplane at 10,000 feet. nobody knows if the parachute is really going to stay on and then open in time.

This line from the Big Book of AA "How it Works" sums it all up:
If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it — then you are ready to take certain steps

no one can make anyone be willing. not wives, not kids, not the boss, not the courts. some folks have to work their way to willing. they aren't against the idea of not drinking, but still have reservations and seek the easier, softer way. but after trying and failing to find someway to still be able to drink and get away with it, they are finally beat down and defeated enough trying to it THEIR way, that sobriety becomes something they fervently desire to acquire.

at this point, at least from what you have shared here, your AH is far from on his way towards willing.

Hawkeye13

I would get reliable support. His recovery needs to be his, and you have more pressing concerns such as having a baby to worry about now.

I really still see no action, or even authentic indicators of true willingness to recover from him so far based on what you've told us.

What does you gut say? Where do you need to be right now to feel safe and supported with your kids and the newborn that's coming?

FWN

trailmix

Seems to me and I'll just throw this out there, that you are really restricting your options here.

If you would prefer to stay in your house and keep with your school responsibilities (dreams), why not do that?

Can you cope on your own with 3 children and not have that family support nearby? If so, why not give it a go? If you're happy there you will work it out (assuming it is financially feasible).

Your Husband can move to an apartment for 6 months/a year whether he is choosing sobriety or not, that's his call really. Him not being in the same house is not a bad idea. Recovery is a roller coaster of emotion, generally and perhaps you and the kids don't need that right now.

Perhaps open up your thinking about options a bit, you have more than the 2 choices. Nothing is written in stone. If after 6 months you feel staying in your house with him moving out isn't really working for you, you can always move to plan B when you are ready to.

What he is saying here is he wants to keep drinking and maintain the status quo. He's also saying, but if you don't like my drinking then move out.

Sorry to be so blunt but if he said you are abandoning him in his greatest hour of need, what the heck have you been doing all these years!? You didn't "abandon" him and what progress has he made in quitting drinking - none, zero, zilch. If having you there for support was the magical golden key to sobriety then he would be in recovery.

FWN

trailmix

If you think Christmas is too soon or not a great time for upheaval in the school year, no problem just wait until school is out. Perhaps give yourself the gift of the year to sort all this out while remaining in the surroundings that make you happy and give you a feeling of stability.

Him moving to an apartment is probably the least stressful choice right now for all of you?

Perhaps family visits can be planned and maybe your Mom or another close relative can come and stay with you when the baby is born and for visits after that for a week or two, so you have that little extra support.

SmallButMighty

Sounds to me like this is your gut talking.

The rest is a lot of feelings and thoughts. That doesn't make them wrong and it doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered. Our hearts and our heads sometimes tell us things that our gut instincts don't agree with.

I always suggest people should trust their deepest instincts. Pregnant women most of all.

FWN

mylifeismine

At one point I realized that AH apologies over and over for the same
thing were making me angry and making me feel foolish for
even listening.

So I told him no more apologies for the same behaviors over
and over. This helped to break a useless pattern in that at
first he didn't know what to say and he had to keep his
empty apologies to himself which I believe in his mind
saying them to me offered some sort of reprieve to him
or way for him to unload some guilt.

Not my monkey.

trailmix

Yes, that's has to be a rock solid boundary, him moving out. He should be able to find something for August 1st. Not sure when your school year starts but that gives you time should he not move. Some places even offer a move in early bonus, since the apartment may be vacant already.

If he isn't moving August 1st, then you are.

Just an example of a boundary, not sure what works with your dates.

FWN

That's a good point. I always feel like leaving would be a knee jerk reaction in those situations simply because then I have to deal with 'husband I like' in the morning and the discussions/words/promises he gives me instead of just telling alcoholic husband that these actions were the last straw.
I know they are the same person which I have to remind myself of often.

trailmix

When alcohol is running someone's life, it is also running the lives of those around them to greater and lesser extents. In the case of a nuclear family, it's usually a greater extent because how can it not be.

It means the everyone is aboard the crazy train and there is no stopping it until the engineer (alcoholism) gets stopped.

You are living on promises. Are his intentions true? Perhaps. Only he knows. Regardless of whether he is absolutely sincere or not, alcoholism is a not a great choice to run your life - it's a horrible taskmaster.

AnvilheadII

if i have read this right, you have already "left the premises" twice in a the past month or two?? for sanity's sake??

it's interesting that you say you feel very invested in your locale, the school, the house - but then flip that and say if HE moves out there is no point in staying.

take some time and contemplate that dichotomy. is he really the lynch pin to all of this??? or is it possible, maybe, that life was leading you here, to this now, regardless of his continued participation?

do you want this to be your new home, the place you finally put down roots? YOUR roots?

are you ready to stop circling around the maelstrom of his addiction and instead plant your flag and call it yours?

with the new baby coming (as opposed to the old baby??? LOL) do you feel you can do this on your own, here, in THIS place?

this isn't a quiz, you don't have to respond, it was more just to give you some things to think about.