Can you be friends with someone your in love with (especially if there an addict).
RIP Sweet Suki
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Glen, it just seems that you are willing to debase yourself just to be close to this guy. He isn't worth it. He is using you, and yes, you deserve better.
I agree with Don't Remember...He's not your friend (and he is straight). You two hung out for a bit and "hooked up" once when he was coked outta his mind. You seriously need to let this "friendship" go and get on with your life.
The only way you will get over him is to have absolutely no contact with him.
I agree with Don't Remember...He's not your friend (and he is straight). You two hung out for a bit and "hooked up" once when he was coked outta his mind. You seriously need to let this "friendship" go and get on with your life.
The only way you will get over him is to have absolutely no contact with him.
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What common ground do you share with him? You are not an addict or alcoholic and most in active addiction don’t want to be around sober people unless of course they are a resource for something. Addicts lead lives of lies, they wrap themselves around deceiving others, how could a friendship with someone like that possibly be a benefit to you?
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99 
Thanks. I obviously have a HUGE amount of work to do on myself.
If that is the truth and you are going to do it, for your sake don't sell yourself short and set yourself up with being faux "friends only".
Be ALL in or ALL out. If you want a relationship with him then that's what you seek, not some side door entrance in to possibly starting a relationship again or God forbid friends with benefits (I even hate that term).
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Originally Posted by atalose
What common ground do you share with him? You are not an addict or alcoholic and most in active addiction don’t want to be around sober people unless of course they are a resource for something. Addicts lead lives of lies, they wrap themselves around deceiving others, how could a friendship with someone like that possibly be a benefit to you?
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
Well he's attending AA here and wants to meet up to chat. I can't imagine (not an excuse) that all addicts lead lives of lies completely, surely there has to be some remorse (I know he didn't show me any for months). I suppose I'm wondering if I'm too hard, he is a good bit younger so that's a factor and if someone says he wants to be friends and is sorry it's hard to turn my back. Common ground, well we have similar sense of humour.
Not to be a downer, but many of us wasted a lot of time doing the yo yo boomerang thing, so you probably won't hear what you want to hear from those who respond to your post.
I hope it'll be different for you. At least you have the guy that you love back in your life.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
Just like the alcoholic who isn't done yet, the codependent can be the same. Until you are ready, there is nothing any of us can say that will convince you that you are better off without your poison of choice.
Good luck. We will be here if it doesn't work out the way you hope.
Good luck. We will be here if it doesn't work out the way you hope.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
If I have this right, in about 10 days you went from this……..
To this…………
Believing that your friendship with him would make a difference in HIS life, disregarding the unhealthy impact to your own. You want to believe that because someone’s husband said they saw him at one AA meeting you think now he’s on the right track and in a place where your friendship with him would work out. He’s found a nest where his addiction will be fed. He is living in an environment where his addiction will thrive. All of his actions – not words prove, show that his history of recovery is not something he actually wants, he talks a good game, says just enough to keep you on his hook and at the ready for his next resource.
The fact you are caving to the whole “friend” thing shows your codependency is again in full swing.
Just remember that when you chose to play on the tracks you can’t be shocked or surprised when your hit by the train.
He’s been in 4 rehabs in the last few months, got kicked out of two.
He's very sick. 4 rehabs therapy etc but doesn't want it. All I know is I don't want all that stress, drama and crap again.
I know as a Codependent this is probably not any of my business but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Apparently he has decided while living with his cousin, that he will have 2 bottles of wine per day, to help prevent withdrawals and seizures
He has no money so she is putting him up and will be buying this every day for him. She is a big drinker also but goes to work during day. So silly question but is she also codependent/enabling?
He's very sick. 4 rehabs therapy etc but doesn't want it. All I know is I don't want all that stress, drama and crap again.
I know as a Codependent this is probably not any of my business but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Apparently he has decided while living with his cousin, that he will have 2 bottles of wine per day, to help prevent withdrawals and seizures
He has no money so she is putting him up and will be buying this every day for him. She is a big drinker also but goes to work during day. So silly question but is she also codependent/enabling?
Believing that your friendship with him would make a difference in HIS life, disregarding the unhealthy impact to your own. You want to believe that because someone’s husband said they saw him at one AA meeting you think now he’s on the right track and in a place where your friendship with him would work out. He’s found a nest where his addiction will be fed. He is living in an environment where his addiction will thrive. All of his actions – not words prove, show that his history of recovery is not something he actually wants, he talks a good game, says just enough to keep you on his hook and at the ready for his next resource.
The fact you are caving to the whole “friend” thing shows your codependency is again in full swing.
Just remember that when you chose to play on the tracks you can’t be shocked or surprised when your hit by the train.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Sigh. I really WANT to say Yes Glen. And it is possible, so long as you are willing to absorb an unhealthy amount of sacrifice & emotional pain.
I've been trying to make this work under completely different circumstances and no matter how much I want it to be easy, it's SO hard most of the time.... I'm speaking from the other side of this & again, there are a lot of differences but as it progresses it gets more complicated, not easier, no matter which part you play in the relationship dynamic.
The potential on my side to abuse this person - who is definitely sitting somewhere on the codie spectrum - is huge. It's like holding a loaded gun to his head & we both struggle with ever changing boundaries & growing, unspoken expectations. If I wasn't recovering myself, this whole thing would have played out far differently & it's still a mess by more traditional standards.
I've been trying to make this work under completely different circumstances and no matter how much I want it to be easy, it's SO hard most of the time.... I'm speaking from the other side of this & again, there are a lot of differences but as it progresses it gets more complicated, not easier, no matter which part you play in the relationship dynamic.
The potential on my side to abuse this person - who is definitely sitting somewhere on the codie spectrum - is huge. It's like holding a loaded gun to his head & we both struggle with ever changing boundaries & growing, unspoken expectations. If I wasn't recovering myself, this whole thing would have played out far differently & it's still a mess by more traditional standards.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Sigh. I really WANT to say Yes Glen. And it is possible, so long as you are willing to absorb an unhealthy amount of sacrifice & emotional pain.
I've been trying to make this work under completely different circumstances and no matter how much I want it to be easy, it's SO hard most of the time.... I'm speaking from the other side of this & again, there are a lot of differences but as it progresses it gets more complicated, not easier, no matter which part you play in the relationship dynamic.
The potential on my side to abuse this person - who is definitely sitting somewhere on the codie spectrum - is huge. It's like holding a loaded gun to his head & we both struggle with ever changing boundaries & growing, unspoken expectations. If I wasn't recovering myself, this whole thing would have played out far differently & it's still a mess by more traditional standards.
I've been trying to make this work under completely different circumstances and no matter how much I want it to be easy, it's SO hard most of the time.... I'm speaking from the other side of this & again, there are a lot of differences but as it progresses it gets more complicated, not easier, no matter which part you play in the relationship dynamic.
The potential on my side to abuse this person - who is definitely sitting somewhere on the codie spectrum - is huge. It's like holding a loaded gun to his head & we both struggle with ever changing boundaries & growing, unspoken expectations. If I wasn't recovering myself, this whole thing would have played out far differently & it's still a mess by more traditional standards.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by atalose
If I have this right, in about 10 days you went from this……..
To this…………
Believing that your friendship with him would make a difference in HIS life, disregarding the unhealthy impact to your own. You want to believe that because someone’s husband said they saw him at one AA meeting you think now he’s on the right track and in a place where your friendship with him would work out. He’s found a nest where his addiction will be fed. He is living in an environment where his addiction will thrive. All of his actions – not words prove, show that his history of recovery is not something he actually wants, he talks a good game, says just enough to keep you on his hook and at the ready for his next resource.
The fact you are caving to the whole “friend” thing shows your codependency is again in full swing.
Just remember that when you chose to play on the tracks you can’t be shocked or surprised when your hit by the train.
To this…………
Believing that your friendship with him would make a difference in HIS life, disregarding the unhealthy impact to your own. You want to believe that because someone’s husband said they saw him at one AA meeting you think now he’s on the right track and in a place where your friendship with him would work out. He’s found a nest where his addiction will be fed. He is living in an environment where his addiction will thrive. All of his actions – not words prove, show that his history of recovery is not something he actually wants, he talks a good game, says just enough to keep you on his hook and at the ready for his next resource.
The fact you are caving to the whole “friend” thing shows your codependency is again in full swing.
Just remember that when you chose to play on the tracks you can’t be shocked or surprised when your hit by the train.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
how do you mean you are coming at it from other side?
To be fair to him, he called it very early on & told me that we could never be friends. More accurately, he said that we were friends but couldn't "stay in that place for very long" - it had to be all in or all out. I laughed it off as an attempt to be assertively charming because I barely had met him & thought it was just another well-practiced line to try to get me into his bed. (At the time he thought I was lying about being married because I haven't worn my wedding rings in years.)
I told him it would have to be all-out then, but we are part of the same big social circle & staying away from each other is awkward & obvious sometimes. So we've tried the friendship thing & he got a girlfriend "to forget about me" & none of it helped or worked out because it's all just temporarily band-aiding things.... we're right back where we started only worse in some ways & this has been playing out over a couple of years now.
It is MESSED UP that he'll savor the 5 free minutes I have when I have them, at my beck & call. It's equally screwed that when his head gets overfull, he acts out trying to raise a reaction out of me. I can tell he's consistently willing to bend his personal boundaries for me. It's unreal to me that he can't stop himself from acting proprietarily about me even when he isn't trying & even strangers pick up & comment about it.... it's gotten to where everyone knows that if you can't find Fire, just ask him.... he can tell you how many times I leave my table, where I go, who I talk to & if it's been "too long" he's sending my friends curious looks.....isn't someone going to go check on me?... he always positions himself so that I am never farther than his peripheral view, even when we're on the outs personally. Mild control - even when I'm outside the venue. I've had guys approach me & say they would have hit on me except that it's "obvious" I'm with him. What?? The last time that happened I had never so much as said Hello to him that evening because it was a very active & busy night where I was able to keep more distance than normal, so imagine my surprise when it happened anyway!.... that can't be me if I never even looked at him that night, you know?
The bigger problem, of course, in the interest of accountability, is that my husband IS a douche a lot of the time & has been for years so it's easy to let this all cloud that situation if I'm not careful. I could see how people just blunder through stuff like this because it's hard enough with some small level of awareness & accountability.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Not sure if I understand the craving his friendship as Codependency in full swing again?
The simple fact you are finding it hard to stop yourself from being back in the life of someone who hurt you, disappointed you and left you filled with heartache is a clear indication to me that your own addiction is active just like his is.
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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Glenjo99- one thing regarding what you said about the possibility of him having remorse. Maybe, but one thing that helps me a little is reminding myself that projection works with positive traits too. So not only can people project their negative traits onto us, or we project our negative traits onto others, but if we are kind, or remorseful or feel bad when we hurt people, it’s easy to think surely others must be feeling the same when they behave that way. But that’s not necessarily the case, unless you see someone actually presenting these traits/ expressing remorse in action.
And it can be further confusing if someone wants something from us, or is trying to impress us for some reason, and therefore “mirrors” our own good behavior back at us, when they are around us. Not saying that’s what he’s doing or what his motivations are, just sharing that these are some things that I personally have experienced, and have set me back a little at times. But generally speaking, I think past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior (unless someone starts taking something or develops some medical condition that radically changes their behavior or something, but more or less), so whatever he told you about himself and his behavior, is most likely going to be more of what he will be doing. Even when people really want to change, change is very hard, and sometimes people just can’t do it, so who knows?
At any rate, good luck
And it can be further confusing if someone wants something from us, or is trying to impress us for some reason, and therefore “mirrors” our own good behavior back at us, when they are around us. Not saying that’s what he’s doing or what his motivations are, just sharing that these are some things that I personally have experienced, and have set me back a little at times. But generally speaking, I think past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior (unless someone starts taking something or develops some medical condition that radically changes their behavior or something, but more or less), so whatever he told you about himself and his behavior, is most likely going to be more of what he will be doing. Even when people really want to change, change is very hard, and sometimes people just can’t do it, so who knows?
At any rate, good luck
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Originally Posted by atalose
Co-dependency is using a relationship to fill a bottomless void due to not feeling whole and loved as an individual. It isn’t the need to be loved that’s the issue, it’s the inability to love one’s self that causes the dysfunction.
The simple fact you are finding it hard to stop yourself from being back in the life of someone who hurt you, disappointed you and left you filled with heartache is a clear indication to me that your own addiction is active just like his is.
The simple fact you are finding it hard to stop yourself from being back in the life of someone who hurt you, disappointed you and left you filled with heartache is a clear indication to me that your own addiction is active just like his is.
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Originally Posted by pdm22
Glenjo99- one thing regarding what you said about the possibility of him having remorse. Maybe, but one thing that helps me a little is reminding myself that projection works with positive traits too. So not only can people project their negative traits onto us, or we project our negative traits onto others, but if we are kind, or remorseful or feel bad when we hurt people, it’s easy to think surely others must be feeling the same when they behave that way. But that’s not necessarily the case, unless you see someone actually presenting these traits/ expressing remorse in action.
And it can be further confusing if someone wants something from us, or is trying to impress us for some reason, and therefore “mirrors” our own good behavior back at us, when they are around us. Not saying that’s what he’s doing or what his motivations are, just sharing that these are some things that I personally have experienced, and have set me back a little at times. But generally speaking, I think past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior (unless someone starts taking something or develops some medical condition that radically changes their behavior or something, but more or less), so whatever he told you about himself and his behavior, is most likely going to be more of what he will be doing. Even when people really want to change, change is very hard, and sometimes people just can’t do it, so who knows?
At any rate, good luck
And it can be further confusing if someone wants something from us, or is trying to impress us for some reason, and therefore “mirrors” our own good behavior back at us, when they are around us. Not saying that’s what he’s doing or what his motivations are, just sharing that these are some things that I personally have experienced, and have set me back a little at times. But generally speaking, I think past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior (unless someone starts taking something or develops some medical condition that radically changes their behavior or something, but more or less), so whatever he told you about himself and his behavior, is most likely going to be more of what he will be doing. Even when people really want to change, change is very hard, and sometimes people just can’t do it, so who knows?
At any rate, good luck
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
He's the one with stronger feelings & settling for friendship vs. nothing.
To be fair to him, he called it very early on & told me that we could never be friends. More accurately, he said that we were friends but couldn't "stay in that place for very long" - it had to be all in or all out. I laughed it off as an attempt to be assertively charming because I barely had met him & thought it was just another well-practiced line to try to get me into his bed. (At the time he thought I was lying about being married because I haven't worn my wedding rings in years.)
I told him it would have to be all-out then, but we are part of the same big social circle & staying away from each other is awkward & obvious sometimes. So we've tried the friendship thing & he got a girlfriend "to forget about me" & none of it helped or worked out because it's all just temporarily band-aiding things.... we're right back where we started only worse in some ways & this has been playing out over a couple of years now.
It is MESSED UP that he'll savor the 5 free minutes I have when I have them, at my beck & call. It's equally screwed that when his head gets overfull, he acts out trying to raise a reaction out of me. I can tell he's consistently willing to bend his personal boundaries for me. It's unreal to me that he can't stop himself from acting proprietarily about me even when he isn't trying & even strangers pick up & comment about it.... it's gotten to where everyone knows that if you can't find Fire, just ask him.... he can tell you how many times I leave my table, where I go, who I talk to & if it's been "too long" he's sending my friends curious looks.....isn't someone going to go check on me?... he always positions himself so that I am never farther than his peripheral view, even when we're on the outs personally. Mild control - even when I'm outside the venue. I've had guys approach me & say they would have hit on me except that it's "obvious" I'm with him. What?? The last time that happened I had never so much as said Hello to him that evening because it was a very active & busy night where I was able to keep more distance than normal, so imagine my surprise when it happened anyway!.... that can't be me if I never even looked at him that night, you know?
The bigger problem, of course, in the interest of accountability, is that my husband IS a douche a lot of the time & has been for years so it's easy to let this all cloud that situation if I'm not careful. I could see how people just blunder through stuff like this because it's hard enough with some small level of awareness & accountability.
To be fair to him, he called it very early on & told me that we could never be friends. More accurately, he said that we were friends but couldn't "stay in that place for very long" - it had to be all in or all out. I laughed it off as an attempt to be assertively charming because I barely had met him & thought it was just another well-practiced line to try to get me into his bed. (At the time he thought I was lying about being married because I haven't worn my wedding rings in years.)
I told him it would have to be all-out then, but we are part of the same big social circle & staying away from each other is awkward & obvious sometimes. So we've tried the friendship thing & he got a girlfriend "to forget about me" & none of it helped or worked out because it's all just temporarily band-aiding things.... we're right back where we started only worse in some ways & this has been playing out over a couple of years now.
It is MESSED UP that he'll savor the 5 free minutes I have when I have them, at my beck & call. It's equally screwed that when his head gets overfull, he acts out trying to raise a reaction out of me. I can tell he's consistently willing to bend his personal boundaries for me. It's unreal to me that he can't stop himself from acting proprietarily about me even when he isn't trying & even strangers pick up & comment about it.... it's gotten to where everyone knows that if you can't find Fire, just ask him.... he can tell you how many times I leave my table, where I go, who I talk to & if it's been "too long" he's sending my friends curious looks.....isn't someone going to go check on me?... he always positions himself so that I am never farther than his peripheral view, even when we're on the outs personally. Mild control - even when I'm outside the venue. I've had guys approach me & say they would have hit on me except that it's "obvious" I'm with him. What?? The last time that happened I had never so much as said Hello to him that evening because it was a very active & busy night where I was able to keep more distance than normal, so imagine my surprise when it happened anyway!.... that can't be me if I never even looked at him that night, you know?
The bigger problem, of course, in the interest of accountability, is that my husband IS a douche a lot of the time & has been for years so it's easy to let this all cloud that situation if I'm not careful. I could see how people just blunder through stuff like this because it's hard enough with some small level of awareness & accountability.
I see what you mean. The part about him being a douche probably does cloud it. I think a lot of relationships have one person who loves the other more.
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I'm wondering can one do both, love oneself or at least be in recovery and be back with someone who you love/have feelings for. Maybe I'm in denial again
Do you think an alcoholic in very early recovery could go sit on a bar stool at the bar they used to hang out in? Or go take a stroll around their favorite liquor store?
I think you are fooling yourself and yes I think it’s called denial.
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
I see what you mean. The part about him being a douche probably does cloud it. I think a lot of relationships have one person who loves the other more.
That's such a negative viewpoint imo.
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