Gaslighting, emotional sneakiness of some behaviours.
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Originally Posted by trailmix 
One other thing, with addiction, the memory can be affected greatly. I don't mean blacking out, although that's a thing, I mean day to day memory.
Forgetting conversations entirely, sometimes they can be remembered, if prompted. If your mind is already not quite ok, ie: you are an addict and your memory is not functioning properly, you get this as a result.
Glenjo, that arrogant making fun of you in front of the other person thing, that's just cruel. I'm so glad you are working on this and that it will never happen to you again.
Forgetting conversations entirely, sometimes they can be remembered, if prompted. If your mind is already not quite ok, ie: you are an addict and your memory is not functioning properly, you get this as a result.
Glenjo, that arrogant making fun of you in front of the other person thing, that's just cruel. I'm so glad you are working on this and that it will never happen to you again.
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GlenJO - this happened to me CONSTANTLY with xab, usually when we would be debating something like politics, or getting into a more complex discussion when (I recognize now) he was well into his cups. He would constantly accuse me of contradicting myself or saying that we needed some stenographer to record our conversations. Even when I could recall and retrace our entire conversational path that got us to the place where we were, he would accuse me of "lawyering" him or that he didn't trust me. We had some blowout so bad one night I left for a couple of days with my parents because I legitimately thought he might be right and I was having some sort of mental breakdown that I was not able to see. I even remember crying to him about feeling crazy, and him then turning around and COMFORTING me.
Maybe there are some people here who know something more about confabulation - because I think in the stage he was in (or I, total amateur conclude he was in) this was what was happening. Like he was filling in the gaps in his memory and if it contradicted with what I said was actually happening he was convinced I was being untruthful or unauthentic.
One instance in particular really bothered me. He got mad at me the morning we flew across the country to CA and wouldn't talk to me the whole plane ride. We had an aisle to ourselves and he sat with a seat between us and refused to hold my hand during terrible turbulence. When we finally arrived at our destination, he took off without even the room key. Later he came back with a peace offering but instead of explaining himself or apologizing he asked "are you on drugs for mental illness?". I ahd actually gotten a prn klonopin prescription for some terrible anxiety that was developing but ... I HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS NUMEROUS TIMES. Like, gone through the whole thing. it made me feel so ashamed of my issues, and now I realize in retrospect he was just turning the tables.
Still, I don't think he did this "on purpose" or even got any real enjoyment out of it. If anything, he often expressed - and I do still think sincerely - how troubled he was by these disconnections, which of course never really got resolve (how could they?). I think, for him, it was just something that always worked to achieve control and security in his relationships and he couldn't even think of backing up or seeing anything wrong with it. I think the interesting part of that night is that we ended up having a great talk and I felt closer to him the next few days because I had thought - well, here I am, all opening up and vulnerable. Here I am, doing the work.
So painful to think about how bad that work was for me in retrospect because it let him in even further. My dad made the comment - kind of reflected by Mango in this thread - that the further I get away from this the more layers of onion I will be seeing pulled back.
I hope you are doing well today - it is cold and rainy here and I have this sensation like I want to cry but unlike earlier this week, I've got no tears. I feel claustrophobic and caught in my old apartment with a noisy upstairs family and I find myself missing the orderliness and routine of the home we had created together. But, no looking back. Time for a new plan. Maybe even to move.
Maybe there are some people here who know something more about confabulation - because I think in the stage he was in (or I, total amateur conclude he was in) this was what was happening. Like he was filling in the gaps in his memory and if it contradicted with what I said was actually happening he was convinced I was being untruthful or unauthentic.
One instance in particular really bothered me. He got mad at me the morning we flew across the country to CA and wouldn't talk to me the whole plane ride. We had an aisle to ourselves and he sat with a seat between us and refused to hold my hand during terrible turbulence. When we finally arrived at our destination, he took off without even the room key. Later he came back with a peace offering but instead of explaining himself or apologizing he asked "are you on drugs for mental illness?". I ahd actually gotten a prn klonopin prescription for some terrible anxiety that was developing but ... I HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS NUMEROUS TIMES. Like, gone through the whole thing. it made me feel so ashamed of my issues, and now I realize in retrospect he was just turning the tables.
Still, I don't think he did this "on purpose" or even got any real enjoyment out of it. If anything, he often expressed - and I do still think sincerely - how troubled he was by these disconnections, which of course never really got resolve (how could they?). I think, for him, it was just something that always worked to achieve control and security in his relationships and he couldn't even think of backing up or seeing anything wrong with it. I think the interesting part of that night is that we ended up having a great talk and I felt closer to him the next few days because I had thought - well, here I am, all opening up and vulnerable. Here I am, doing the work.
So painful to think about how bad that work was for me in retrospect because it let him in even further. My dad made the comment - kind of reflected by Mango in this thread - that the further I get away from this the more layers of onion I will be seeing pulled back.
I hope you are doing well today - it is cold and rainy here and I have this sensation like I want to cry but unlike earlier this week, I've got no tears. I feel claustrophobic and caught in my old apartment with a noisy upstairs family and I find myself missing the orderliness and routine of the home we had created together. But, no looking back. Time for a new plan. Maybe even to move.
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Originally Posted by fightingfair
GlenJO - this happened to me CONSTANTLY with xab, usually when we would be debating something like politics, or getting into a more complex discussion when (I recognize now) he was well into his cups. He would constantly accuse me of contradicting myself or saying that we needed some stenographer to record our conversations. Even when I could recall and retrace our entire conversational path that got us to the place where we were, he would accuse me of "lawyering" him or that he didn't trust me. We had some blowout so bad one night I left for a couple of days with my parents because I legitimately thought he might be right and I was having some sort of mental breakdown that I was not able to see. I even remember crying to him about feeling crazy, and him then turning around and COMFORTING me.
Maybe there are some people here who know something more about confabulation - because I think in the stage he was in (or I, total amateur conclude he was in) this was what was happening. Like he was filling in the gaps in his memory and if it contradicted with what I said was actually happening he was convinced I was being untruthful or unauthentic.
One instance in particular really bothered me. He got mad at me the morning we flew across the country to CA and wouldn't talk to me the whole plane ride. We had an aisle to ourselves and he sat with a seat between us and refused to hold my hand during terrible turbulence. When we finally arrived at our destination, he took off without even the room key. Later he came back with a peace offering but instead of explaining himself or apologizing he asked "are you on drugs for mental illness?". I ahd actually gotten a prn klonopin prescription for some terrible anxiety that was developing but ... I HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS NUMEROUS TIMES. Like, gone through the whole thing. it made me feel so ashamed of my issues, and now I realize in retrospect he was just turning the tables.
Still, I don't think he did this "on purpose" or even got any real enjoyment out of it. If anything, he often expressed - and I do still think sincerely - how troubled he was by these disconnections, which of course never really got resolve (how could they?). I think, for him, it was just something that always worked to achieve control and security in his relationships and he couldn't even think of backing up or seeing anything wrong with it. I think the interesting part of that night is that we ended up having a great talk and I felt closer to him the next few days because I had thought - well, here I am, all opening up and vulnerable. Here I am, doing the work.
So painful to think about how bad that work was for me in retrospect because it let him in even further. My dad made the comment - kind of reflected by Mango in this thread - that the further I get away from this the more layers of onion I will be seeing pulled back.
I hope you are doing well today - it is cold and rainy here and I have this sensation like I want to cry but unlike earlier this week, I've got no tears. I feel claustrophobic and caught in my old apartment with a noisy upstairs family and I find myself missing the orderliness and routine of the home we had created together. But, no looking back. Time for a new plan. Maybe even to move.
Maybe there are some people here who know something more about confabulation - because I think in the stage he was in (or I, total amateur conclude he was in) this was what was happening. Like he was filling in the gaps in his memory and if it contradicted with what I said was actually happening he was convinced I was being untruthful or unauthentic.
One instance in particular really bothered me. He got mad at me the morning we flew across the country to CA and wouldn't talk to me the whole plane ride. We had an aisle to ourselves and he sat with a seat between us and refused to hold my hand during terrible turbulence. When we finally arrived at our destination, he took off without even the room key. Later he came back with a peace offering but instead of explaining himself or apologizing he asked "are you on drugs for mental illness?". I ahd actually gotten a prn klonopin prescription for some terrible anxiety that was developing but ... I HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS NUMEROUS TIMES. Like, gone through the whole thing. it made me feel so ashamed of my issues, and now I realize in retrospect he was just turning the tables.
Still, I don't think he did this "on purpose" or even got any real enjoyment out of it. If anything, he often expressed - and I do still think sincerely - how troubled he was by these disconnections, which of course never really got resolve (how could they?). I think, for him, it was just something that always worked to achieve control and security in his relationships and he couldn't even think of backing up or seeing anything wrong with it. I think the interesting part of that night is that we ended up having a great talk and I felt closer to him the next few days because I had thought - well, here I am, all opening up and vulnerable. Here I am, doing the work.
So painful to think about how bad that work was for me in retrospect because it let him in even further. My dad made the comment - kind of reflected by Mango in this thread - that the further I get away from this the more layers of onion I will be seeing pulled back.
I hope you are doing well today - it is cold and rainy here and I have this sensation like I want to cry but unlike earlier this week, I've got no tears. I feel claustrophobic and caught in my old apartment with a noisy upstairs family and I find myself missing the orderliness and routine of the home we had created together. But, no looking back. Time for a new plan. Maybe even to move.
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I too am going through a tough time this weekend. It's the one week anniversary of him dropping the bombshell that it's over and I still haven't really unpacked in my old place and actually keep having these urges to do something drastic (no, not self-harm, more like buying a second home or throwing all my furniture away) to cleanse it all out. This morning I felt angry tears welling up during a workout class but they have sense faded, which is frustrating. I guess I want to continue to "cry it out" until I feel like the well is run dry. I feel unsettled and the weather is grey. I'm finding a lot of flaws now with the city I live in and its pool of men. I'm wondering if it will be worth it to ever dive in again. Everything here seems to run on booze fumes.
I ahve a cookout this afternoon with friends. About to put the computer away, take a shower and crack open a few suitcases. I had read an article about the worst thing for anxiety or depression is to sit still and so I will try to keep moving or find something to get into the "flow" of. I think this is really what I'm missing today, the "flow" of our routines, and the way we existed (I thought) happily puttering away putting the house in the order we needed to feel like everything was normal perhaps.
I ahve a cookout this afternoon with friends. About to put the computer away, take a shower and crack open a few suitcases. I had read an article about the worst thing for anxiety or depression is to sit still and so I will try to keep moving or find something to get into the "flow" of. I think this is really what I'm missing today, the "flow" of our routines, and the way we existed (I thought) happily puttering away putting the house in the order we needed to feel like everything was normal perhaps.
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Originally Posted by fightingfair
I too am going through a tough time this weekend. It's the one week anniversary of him dropping the bombshell that it's over and I still haven't really unpacked in my old place and actually keep having these urges to do something drastic (no, not self-harm, more like buying a second home or throwing all my furniture away) to cleanse it all out. This morning I felt angry tears welling up during a workout class but they have sense faded, which is frustrating. I guess I want to continue to "cry it out" until I feel like the well is run dry. I feel unsettled and the weather is grey. I'm finding a lot of flaws now with the city I live in and its pool of men. I'm wondering if it will be worth it to ever dive in again. Everything here seems to run on booze fumes.
I ahve a cookout this afternoon with friends. About to put the computer away, take a shower and crack open a few suitcases. I had read an article about the worst thing for anxiety or depression is to sit still and so I will try to keep moving or find something to get into the "flow" of. I think this is really what I'm missing today, the "flow" of our routines, and the way we existed (I thought) happily puttering away putting the house in the order we needed to feel like everything was normal perhaps.
I ahve a cookout this afternoon with friends. About to put the computer away, take a shower and crack open a few suitcases. I had read an article about the worst thing for anxiety or depression is to sit still and so I will try to keep moving or find something to get into the "flow" of. I think this is really what I'm missing today, the "flow" of our routines, and the way we existed (I thought) happily puttering away putting the house in the order we needed to feel like everything was normal perhaps.
The irony of it all, he's in recovery now sober. I'm here not drinking. Could have been such good support but wasn't to be. As a codependent I'm taking things a day at a time. Have a great time at the cookout!
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I agree about the sitting still when feeling anxious or depressed, although sometimes it can feel like we are frozen to the spot?
I've been there and got moving as in cleaning etc and found that didn't work too well for me. Although I can burn off energy doing that, they are mindless tasks and leave lots of time for thinking.
What I found helped was nightly, watching movies on netflix, things I wouldn't normally watch (live Marvel comic movies, Ironman, that kind of thing). They are lightweight, have little romance and you don't have to pay that much attention to follow lol
Your mind will wander no doubt but keep dragging it back to the movie (or book or whatever you choose). Get comfy, get some hot chocolate and popcorn, be nice to yourself.
Now watching netflix or whatever may not seem like a particularly helpful "moving forward" plan, but in fact, in the early days it is. It gets you out of rumination, it's slightly entertaining, it gives your mind a much needed rest.
Anyway, just a thought! I hope you enjoy the cook-out too although if you are like me you will just be dragging your butt there and putting on a happy face. It's good to be around people though, especially those that know you well, their positive talk and good intention toward you can lift your spirits.
I've been there and got moving as in cleaning etc and found that didn't work too well for me. Although I can burn off energy doing that, they are mindless tasks and leave lots of time for thinking.
What I found helped was nightly, watching movies on netflix, things I wouldn't normally watch (live Marvel comic movies, Ironman, that kind of thing). They are lightweight, have little romance and you don't have to pay that much attention to follow lol
Your mind will wander no doubt but keep dragging it back to the movie (or book or whatever you choose). Get comfy, get some hot chocolate and popcorn, be nice to yourself.
Now watching netflix or whatever may not seem like a particularly helpful "moving forward" plan, but in fact, in the early days it is. It gets you out of rumination, it's slightly entertaining, it gives your mind a much needed rest.
Anyway, just a thought! I hope you enjoy the cook-out too although if you are like me you will just be dragging your butt there and putting on a happy face. It's good to be around people though, especially those that know you well, their positive talk and good intention toward you can lift your spirits.
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Glenjo-
I just want to reflect on a piece that is up for me about this, this week.
Compassion for ourselves around the "When you know better, you do better."
I have found those words have worked for me....but I was holding onto a slightly different part and continuing to find a way to beat myself up.
I was expecting myself to know then what I know now and to not even be in the situation in the first place.
I honestly was under the impression that I "should," have known better and in retrospect have been beating myself up about that instead.
It has been a big relief to take that should out of the mix.
I just want to reflect on a piece that is up for me about this, this week.
Compassion for ourselves around the "When you know better, you do better."
I have found those words have worked for me....but I was holding onto a slightly different part and continuing to find a way to beat myself up.
I was expecting myself to know then what I know now and to not even be in the situation in the first place.
I honestly was under the impression that I "should," have known better and in retrospect have been beating myself up about that instead.
It has been a big relief to take that should out of the mix.
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It's good to be around people though, especially those that know you well, their positive talk and good intention toward you can lift your spirits.
I'm doing this with kid today, going to an autumn harvest event. Happy face optional. It's great to be able to share a smile. It's also good to be authentic. Finding balance took a bunch of times of allowing all kinds of emotions to surface in new ways. Having a public emotional breakdown has led to very kind strangers opening their arms, hearts and time for me, just as I needed much more support in my life than I was recognizing.
#healingactions
I'm doing this with kid today, going to an autumn harvest event. Happy face optional. It's great to be able to share a smile. It's also good to be authentic. Finding balance took a bunch of times of allowing all kinds of emotions to surface in new ways. Having a public emotional breakdown has led to very kind strangers opening their arms, hearts and time for me, just as I needed much more support in my life than I was recognizing.
#healingactions
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Glenjo-
I just want to reflect on a piece that is up for me about this, this week.
Compassion for ourselves around the "When you know better, you do better."
I have found those words have worked for me....but I was holding onto a slightly different part and continuing to find a way to beat myself up.
I was expecting myself to know then what I know now and to not even be in the situation in the first place.
I honestly was under the impression that I "should," have known better and in retrospect have been beating myself up about that instead.
It has been a big relief to take that should out of the mix.
I just want to reflect on a piece that is up for me about this, this week.
Compassion for ourselves around the "When you know better, you do better."
I have found those words have worked for me....but I was holding onto a slightly different part and continuing to find a way to beat myself up.
I was expecting myself to know then what I know now and to not even be in the situation in the first place.
I honestly was under the impression that I "should," have known better and in retrospect have been beating myself up about that instead.
It has been a big relief to take that should out of the mix.
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Originally Posted by Mango212
It's good to be around people though, especially those that know you well, their positive talk and good intention toward you can lift your spirits.
I'm doing this with kid today, going to an autumn harvest event. Happy face optional. It's great to be able to share a smile. It's also good to be authentic. Finding balance took a bunch of times of allowing all kinds of emotions to surface in new ways. Having a public emotional breakdown has led to very kind strangers opening their arms, hearts and time for me, just as I needed much more support in my life than I was recognizing.
#healingactions
I'm doing this with kid today, going to an autumn harvest event. Happy face optional. It's great to be able to share a smile. It's also good to be authentic. Finding balance took a bunch of times of allowing all kinds of emotions to surface in new ways. Having a public emotional breakdown has led to very kind strangers opening their arms, hearts and time for me, just as I needed much more support in my life than I was recognizing.
#healingactions
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Originally Posted by Mango212
I'm doing this with kid today, going to an autumn harvest event. Happy face optional. It's great to be able to share a smile. It's also good to be authentic. Finding balance took a bunch of times of allowing all kinds of emotions to surface in new ways. Having a public emotional breakdown has led to very kind strangers opening their arms, hearts and time for me, just as I needed much more support in my life than I was recognizing.
I may not always put on some fake funny persona, I might be low key.
Now, every friend and family dynamic is different. But for me I'm a one on one sharer.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I totally agree with you about being authentic. I'm probably never going to be that person that lets my emotions surface in a group of friends or family (and never strangers), that's not me. Especially in a case where it goes on for a bit.
I may not always put on some fake funny persona, I might be low key.
Now, every friend and family dynamic is different. But for me I'm a one on one sharer.
I may not always put on some fake funny persona, I might be low key.
Now, every friend and family dynamic is different. But for me I'm a one on one sharer.
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