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Well, new to this forum and site I should say. My husband & I have been married 13 years & have 2 amazing young children. I've been to a few alanon mtgs, seen a few counselors & read articles & books. And it's still hard to wrap my mind around the Jekyll & Hyde person that I both love and hate. How can such a compassionate, empathetic, generous person be so ugly? Things only get worse with the drinking, I've heard it & lived it. Good times start to not be enough to outweigh the anxious, troubling bad times. But will my kids be forever scarred with parents divorcing? I've hidden so much from them & protected him for so long- they love their dad. Am I being ungrateful & should I just suck up 1 bad night a week if he's (mostly) good the rest of the time & providing for our family? Maybe my idea of a normal marriage & relationships is only a myth?
So nice to have others who understand. Because those lucky enough to not be living with this surely don't.
So nice to have others who understand. Because those lucky enough to not be living with this surely don't.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
willowreed...Welcome. I am going to give you the following link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones...there are a lot of them...In fact, you will not find a better collection of articles, anywhere. There is enough for you to read one every single day...lol. There is sooo much to learn....and knowledge is power.
Here is that l ink
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
In response to your question about children and divorce....I think it is safe to say that developmental psychologists agree that it is not divorce, itself, that is damaging to children....because, most children adjust to divorce within two years of the event...But, rather, it is living in a dysfunctional home and the behavior of the parents during and after the divorce that has lasting negative results of the children.
Living in a dysfunctional environment, in the home, can be very damaging. In this respect, alcoholism is called a family disease, because it affects the whole family...not just the alcoholic...Children are very vulnerable to the effects of their environment...even more than adults, because they are evolving in their development....
Lol..in answer to your other question...I do believe that "normal" marriage is not a myth. "Perfect" families is a myth. but, I don't think that is your problem...?
I tend to think of "normal" families are one that provide an opportunity for the members to be able to thrive in a healthy way...not just exist....
This is just my take on it....
Here is that l ink
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
In response to your question about children and divorce....I think it is safe to say that developmental psychologists agree that it is not divorce, itself, that is damaging to children....because, most children adjust to divorce within two years of the event...But, rather, it is living in a dysfunctional home and the behavior of the parents during and after the divorce that has lasting negative results of the children.
Living in a dysfunctional environment, in the home, can be very damaging. In this respect, alcoholism is called a family disease, because it affects the whole family...not just the alcoholic...Children are very vulnerable to the effects of their environment...even more than adults, because they are evolving in their development....
Lol..in answer to your other question...I do believe that "normal" marriage is not a myth. "Perfect" families is a myth. but, I don't think that is your problem...?
I tend to think of "normal" families are one that provide an opportunity for the members to be able to thrive in a healthy way...not just exist....
This is just my take on it....
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by willowreed1974 
Things only get worse with the drinking, I've heard it & lived it.
Am I being ungrateful & should I just suck up 1 bad night a week if he's (mostly) good the rest of the time & providing for our family?
Good times start to not be enough to outweigh the anxious, troubling bad times.
But will my kids be forever scarred with parents divorcing? I've hidden so much from them & protected him for so long- they love their dad.
You AND your children will both recover. By staying, you are teaching them that it is OK to accept the unacceptable, that it's more important to keep up appearances than to deal with the truth. Would you want any of your children to settle for a relationship like what you and your AH have? Wouldn't you want them to have more? Then why should you settle for less?
Although you believe you've "protected" the kids from AH's alcoholic behavior, I'd wager they know a WHOLE lot more than you imagine...
I hope you continue to both read and post here at SR, and I also hope you check into Alanon very soon. Both are great resources, and they were a powerful combo for me when I first started my own recovery.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hey willowreed,
Welcome - sorry for what brought you here, but it's good you found the forum.
From my own experience:
You're not hiding anything from your children. Just because they haven't heard the term alcoholic applied to their father doesn;t mean they don;t know something is wrong. I knew something was wrong in my family from like 1st grade so what's that 5 or 6 yrs old?
My mother, a very strong person, college educated, career woman, raising 5 kids, also thought she was running a tight ship and that only she was going through what she was going through with our A Dad. Puhleeeeeeeeeze!!!! And my Dad always worked, provided for the family, was loved and respected in our community etc etc etc. But he was an alcoholic and there is no hiding that elephant in the living room.
As I got older and angrier, I could not understand why some caring sober adult hadn't just come to me or any of my siblings and said, "Hey what's going on here is alcoholism, you didn't cause it, can't control it, cant cure it. And it doesn't mean that Dad doesn't love us, or that he is a "bad" person, or that you don't love Dad enough, it is not our fault in any way, it is a sickness called addiction. And you will have a lot of confusing feelings about this because it affects our whole family, and I am always here to listen and talk to about anything."
Ultimately my father got into AA and recovered when I was late in teenage years. My mother, to this day, because of her inability to get real with any of us, still has very strained inauthentic relationships with all of us (and all 3 of my bros became alcoholics). My father on the other hand, he embraced recovery and really changed as a human being, and made amends to me. I know it was a great source of pain for him that all 3 sons drank....again who knows if we had been a more open and honest family if it would have helped my bros avoid that path. We'll never know.
Children of alcoholics learn a lot of sick sh*t growing up in that environment One of your questions illustrates why:
Am I being ungrateful & should I just suck up 1 bad night a week if he's (mostly) good the rest of the time & providing for our family?
Ummmmm, no! What are you teaching children about what is acceptable in romantic relationships? What little acts of covering up for your AH are they absorbing and learning is acceptable?
I'm a happily divorced mother of 2 boys, my exH was not even an A, and yes, divorce is very hard on kids, but with honesty, reassurance, love, and whatever else they needed we came through fine, we still have very open and honest discussions about it, they have both been through short courses of counseling at different times in their lives and they are normal well-adjusted (non-addicted by the grace of God) people.
So my feeling is it is always better to be up front and honest, involve kids (with age appropriate explanations of course) in what's really going on. Seeing a strong sober parent go through a struggle and come out healthy and peaceful is a powerful lesson for kids. Is it scary when the family is struggling with something? Sure. But waaaaaay less scary than when you're a kid and you know something is wrong but no one is telling you what, and there are clearly some secrets that the adults think are so shameful they cannot be talked about. That's probably not the lesson we want to teach our kids.
Go to any adult children of alcoholics meeting and hear how similar the stories are and how the people are struggling with the same issues - whether their parent was an abusive falling down drunk or a buttoned-up drunk CEO - the dynamics of addiction in families are well-documented, no one is special, no spouse is uniquely powerful enough to "protect" the children from the terrible lessons learned in that family dynamic.
Reality always best!
Peace,
B.
Welcome - sorry for what brought you here, but it's good you found the forum.
From my own experience:
You're not hiding anything from your children. Just because they haven't heard the term alcoholic applied to their father doesn;t mean they don;t know something is wrong. I knew something was wrong in my family from like 1st grade so what's that 5 or 6 yrs old?
My mother, a very strong person, college educated, career woman, raising 5 kids, also thought she was running a tight ship and that only she was going through what she was going through with our A Dad. Puhleeeeeeeeeze!!!! And my Dad always worked, provided for the family, was loved and respected in our community etc etc etc. But he was an alcoholic and there is no hiding that elephant in the living room.
As I got older and angrier, I could not understand why some caring sober adult hadn't just come to me or any of my siblings and said, "Hey what's going on here is alcoholism, you didn't cause it, can't control it, cant cure it. And it doesn't mean that Dad doesn't love us, or that he is a "bad" person, or that you don't love Dad enough, it is not our fault in any way, it is a sickness called addiction. And you will have a lot of confusing feelings about this because it affects our whole family, and I am always here to listen and talk to about anything."
Ultimately my father got into AA and recovered when I was late in teenage years. My mother, to this day, because of her inability to get real with any of us, still has very strained inauthentic relationships with all of us (and all 3 of my bros became alcoholics). My father on the other hand, he embraced recovery and really changed as a human being, and made amends to me. I know it was a great source of pain for him that all 3 sons drank....again who knows if we had been a more open and honest family if it would have helped my bros avoid that path. We'll never know.
Children of alcoholics learn a lot of sick sh*t growing up in that environment One of your questions illustrates why:
Am I being ungrateful & should I just suck up 1 bad night a week if he's (mostly) good the rest of the time & providing for our family?
Ummmmm, no! What are you teaching children about what is acceptable in romantic relationships? What little acts of covering up for your AH are they absorbing and learning is acceptable?
I'm a happily divorced mother of 2 boys, my exH was not even an A, and yes, divorce is very hard on kids, but with honesty, reassurance, love, and whatever else they needed we came through fine, we still have very open and honest discussions about it, they have both been through short courses of counseling at different times in their lives and they are normal well-adjusted (non-addicted by the grace of God) people.
So my feeling is it is always better to be up front and honest, involve kids (with age appropriate explanations of course) in what's really going on. Seeing a strong sober parent go through a struggle and come out healthy and peaceful is a powerful lesson for kids. Is it scary when the family is struggling with something? Sure. But waaaaaay less scary than when you're a kid and you know something is wrong but no one is telling you what, and there are clearly some secrets that the adults think are so shameful they cannot be talked about. That's probably not the lesson we want to teach our kids.
Go to any adult children of alcoholics meeting and hear how similar the stories are and how the people are struggling with the same issues - whether their parent was an abusive falling down drunk or a buttoned-up drunk CEO - the dynamics of addiction in families are well-documented, no one is special, no spouse is uniquely powerful enough to "protect" the children from the terrible lessons learned in that family dynamic.
Reality always best!
Peace,
B.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
Alcoholism is evil. It makes the people we love turn into someone we cant always love. You asked if your kids would be scarred from their parents divorcing. I think divorce is easier to work through than alcoholism is by tenfold.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. My mom wasn't at all abusive, she took very good care of us always. We were well fed, clean and we knew we were loved. She just didn't talk much, she cleaned or cooked all the time, played solitaire or stayed in her room. Mom and dad didn't fight around us, there was no verbal or physical abuse. My dad was military and gone a lot, so it was mostly mom raising us. But all in all, not bad for an alcoholic parent right?
After she died, as I was seeing a counselor, working through her death, I realized I didn't know how to process emotion. I never saw it modeled in my home. I just stuffed it without even realizing I was doing it. I actually had to learn how process emotion at age 44!
I'm not saying my mom is to blame, I know for a fact she loved us and she did the absolute best she could at that time. So ANY amount of alcoholism will affect our children. Drunk a little, drunk a lot, its a family disease, it affects everyone in the family regardless.
My husband just quit drinking after 18 years. I thought I hid it pretty well from my kids too. Kids know a whole lot more than we think. I've heard some things from the now grown kids I was surprised about. The boys we still have at home dont seem affected by my husbands past alcoholism. Its all they've ever known. It seems normal. But I know the damage will pop up sometime.
I personally don't believe in divorce except under extreme circumstances. That's me, you have to make your own informed decision. I just wanted to give you a viewpoint of someone who was raised by an alcoholic parent that wasn't that bad. It does affect a child, sometimes in ways we may not know until later in their childhood, or into adulthood.
I haven't had a drop of alcohol at ALL for the last 20 years. I never wanted to become an alcoholic and took great measures so my kids wouldn't live in an alcoholic environment.
I married a man who I knew was a binge drinker once or twice a month. Two years after we were married, he slid into alcoholism. Ironic isn't it. I went to great extremes to make sure I didn't become an alcoholic, but didn't see it in the man I was marrying. Alcoholism always progresses. Always. As a side note, both of my sisters are alcoholics.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. My mom wasn't at all abusive, she took very good care of us always. We were well fed, clean and we knew we were loved. She just didn't talk much, she cleaned or cooked all the time, played solitaire or stayed in her room. Mom and dad didn't fight around us, there was no verbal or physical abuse. My dad was military and gone a lot, so it was mostly mom raising us. But all in all, not bad for an alcoholic parent right?
After she died, as I was seeing a counselor, working through her death, I realized I didn't know how to process emotion. I never saw it modeled in my home. I just stuffed it without even realizing I was doing it. I actually had to learn how process emotion at age 44!
I'm not saying my mom is to blame, I know for a fact she loved us and she did the absolute best she could at that time. So ANY amount of alcoholism will affect our children. Drunk a little, drunk a lot, its a family disease, it affects everyone in the family regardless.
My husband just quit drinking after 18 years. I thought I hid it pretty well from my kids too. Kids know a whole lot more than we think. I've heard some things from the now grown kids I was surprised about. The boys we still have at home dont seem affected by my husbands past alcoholism. Its all they've ever known. It seems normal. But I know the damage will pop up sometime.
I personally don't believe in divorce except under extreme circumstances. That's me, you have to make your own informed decision. I just wanted to give you a viewpoint of someone who was raised by an alcoholic parent that wasn't that bad. It does affect a child, sometimes in ways we may not know until later in their childhood, or into adulthood.
I haven't had a drop of alcohol at ALL for the last 20 years. I never wanted to become an alcoholic and took great measures so my kids wouldn't live in an alcoholic environment.
I married a man who I knew was a binge drinker once or twice a month. Two years after we were married, he slid into alcoholism. Ironic isn't it. I went to great extremes to make sure I didn't become an alcoholic, but didn't see it in the man I was marrying. Alcoholism always progresses. Always. As a side note, both of my sisters are alcoholics.
Originally Posted by willowreed1974
Well, new to this forum and site I should say. My husband & I have been married 13 years & have 2 amazing young children. I've been to a few alanon mtgs, seen a few counselors & read articles & books. And it's still hard to wrap my mind around the Jekyll & Hyde person that I both love and hate. How can such a compassionate, empathetic, generous person be so ugly? Things only get worse with the drinking, I've heard it & lived it. Good times start to not be enough to outweigh the anxious, troubling bad times. But will my kids be forever scarred with parents divorcing? I've hidden so much from them & protected him for so long- they love their dad. Am I being ungrateful & should I just suck up 1 bad night a week if he's (mostly) good the rest of the time & providing for our family? Maybe my idea of a normal marriage & relationships is only a myth?
So nice to have others who understand. Because those lucky enough to not be living with this surely don't.
So nice to have others who understand. Because those lucky enough to not be living with this surely don't.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
ETA there is good news. None of the 4 girls married alcoholics. We have 3 great sons-in-law and 1 decent one LOL
Originally Posted by Wamama48
Alcoholism is evil. It makes the people we love turn into someone we cant always love. You asked if your kids would be scarred from their parents divorcing. I think divorce is easier to work through than alcoholism is by tenfold.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. My mom wasn't at all abusive, she took very good care of us always. We were well fed, clean and we knew we were loved. She just didn't talk much, she cleaned or cooked all the time, played solitaire or stayed in her room. Mom and dad didn't fight around us, there was no verbal or physical abuse. My dad was military and gone a lot, so it was mostly mom raising us. But all in all, not bad for an alcoholic parent right?
After she died, as I was seeing a counselor, working through her death, I realized I didn't know how to process emotion. I never saw it modeled in my home. I just stuffed it without even realizing I was doing it. I actually had to learn how process emotion at age 44!
I'm not saying my mom is to blame, I know for a fact she loved us and she did the absolute best she could at that time. So ANY amount of alcoholism will affect our children. Drunk a little, drunk a lot, its a family disease, it affects everyone in the family regardless.
My husband just quit drinking after 18 years. I thought I hid it pretty well from my kids too. Kids know a whole lot more than we think. I've heard some things from the now grown kids I was surprised about. The boys we still have at home dont seem affected by my husbands past alcoholism. Its all they've ever known. It seems normal. But I know the damage will pop up sometime.
I personally don't believe in divorce except under extreme circumstances. That's me, you have to make your own informed decision. I just wanted to give you a viewpoint of someone who was raised by an alcoholic parent that wasn't that bad. It does affect a child, sometimes in ways we may not know until later in their childhood, or into adulthood.
I haven't had a drop of alcohol at ALL for the last 20 years. I never wanted to become an alcoholic and took great measures so my kids wouldn't live in an alcoholic environment.
I married a man who I knew was a binge drinker once or twice a month. Two years after we were married, he slid into alcoholism. Ironic isn't it. I went to great extremes to make sure I didn't become an alcoholic, but didn't see it in the man I was marrying. Alcoholism always progresses. Always. As a side note, both of my sisters are alcoholics.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. My mom wasn't at all abusive, she took very good care of us always. We were well fed, clean and we knew we were loved. She just didn't talk much, she cleaned or cooked all the time, played solitaire or stayed in her room. Mom and dad didn't fight around us, there was no verbal or physical abuse. My dad was military and gone a lot, so it was mostly mom raising us. But all in all, not bad for an alcoholic parent right?
After she died, as I was seeing a counselor, working through her death, I realized I didn't know how to process emotion. I never saw it modeled in my home. I just stuffed it without even realizing I was doing it. I actually had to learn how process emotion at age 44!
I'm not saying my mom is to blame, I know for a fact she loved us and she did the absolute best she could at that time. So ANY amount of alcoholism will affect our children. Drunk a little, drunk a lot, its a family disease, it affects everyone in the family regardless.
My husband just quit drinking after 18 years. I thought I hid it pretty well from my kids too. Kids know a whole lot more than we think. I've heard some things from the now grown kids I was surprised about. The boys we still have at home dont seem affected by my husbands past alcoholism. Its all they've ever known. It seems normal. But I know the damage will pop up sometime.
I personally don't believe in divorce except under extreme circumstances. That's me, you have to make your own informed decision. I just wanted to give you a viewpoint of someone who was raised by an alcoholic parent that wasn't that bad. It does affect a child, sometimes in ways we may not know until later in their childhood, or into adulthood.
I haven't had a drop of alcohol at ALL for the last 20 years. I never wanted to become an alcoholic and took great measures so my kids wouldn't live in an alcoholic environment.
I married a man who I knew was a binge drinker once or twice a month. Two years after we were married, he slid into alcoholism. Ironic isn't it. I went to great extremes to make sure I didn't become an alcoholic, but didn't see it in the man I was marrying. Alcoholism always progresses. Always. As a side note, both of my sisters are alcoholics.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,644
I don't know how old your children are but if they are even around 5, they know.
You might think if they thought anything was awry they would have mentioned it or be displaying some kind of unusual behaviour, acting out, sadness maybe?
Well in my experience, not necessarily true.
You see for the child of an alcoholic, the parent being drunk is normal. Nothing to be sad about, scared maybe sometimes but not sad or angry (again in my experience). It just is. Even if you are scared it doesn't mean you would mention it to the sober parent. They are the one protecting you and you know it. They know it, what is to be said?
At the same time it teaches the child that less than stellar treatment from others is normal and that the drunk parent (and in future the person treating them badly) needs to be assuaged, calmed, tiptoed around, soothed, listened to - therein lies the problem.
So I guess they could take from this that's it's ok to have a spouse, romantic interest (or anyone really) who is only mean? abusive? drunk? once in a while - and they will have the skills to smooth it over.
It's just a bad lesson to teach and there is no way around it if you keep them in that environment.
You might think if they thought anything was awry they would have mentioned it or be displaying some kind of unusual behaviour, acting out, sadness maybe?
Well in my experience, not necessarily true.
You see for the child of an alcoholic, the parent being drunk is normal. Nothing to be sad about, scared maybe sometimes but not sad or angry (again in my experience). It just is. Even if you are scared it doesn't mean you would mention it to the sober parent. They are the one protecting you and you know it. They know it, what is to be said?
At the same time it teaches the child that less than stellar treatment from others is normal and that the drunk parent (and in future the person treating them badly) needs to be assuaged, calmed, tiptoed around, soothed, listened to - therein lies the problem.
So I guess they could take from this that's it's ok to have a spouse, romantic interest (or anyone really) who is only mean? abusive? drunk? once in a while - and they will have the skills to smooth it over.
It's just a bad lesson to teach and there is no way around it if you keep them in that environment.
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 196
When I was a junior in college, I joined a business club. It was great, and I met a lot of great people. So much so that I got more involved the following year in a leadership role, and it is like my world revolved around it. And it is like I would just put a smile on my face and act like I could handle everything-no matter what someone said to me. Then I saw someone that I really liked be questioned about being part of this club--basically this other girl was questioning the partying and drinking that was at some events. Then next thing I knew that she was no longer part of the club. It is like her voice was silenced. I really liked her a lot. I saw a lot of her in myself, but I had lost my voice. I was sad when she told me that she no longer wanted to be a business major and was going to pursue education instead. The following semester, instead of feeling good about being part of this business club, I felt like members from the club were tearing me apart. I kept making excuses why I could not show up. Looking back at it, you would think that it was easy to just make up my mind on whether to be a part of the club. I was confused what to do. It was something that I cared about and put a tremendous amount of time into. But there was like this dark side that I did not like that came out of some people that were in this club. It was like I was invisible. I really did not know what to do. Then my friend who was also a leader told me in the hallway that I was no longer part of the leadership. I responded to him that I was dropping out of the club. I realized I had been caring about this club who really did not care about me. So I wrote a letter that was read out loud to the club. It basically said that I had put a tremendous amount of hours into the club (I literally broke down the activities with amount of time). I acknowledged that I had a different personality from other people. And that I needed to take care of myself and could no longer be part of the club.
It is not easy when you love someone as well as your kids so much. For you, it is 13 years of marriage.
I really liked Divorcecare at a local church. I went 3 times. It gave me a voice. I liked the Divorced and single mom support groups on Facebook.
I actually filed twice for divorce and both divorces timed out. No regrets. We failed at divorce. My husband is still the love of my life.
It was like the business club. It was something that I failed at. But sometimes you have to fail before you can succeed. I went on to use the business club as an example in my life. I found a company that I love to work for. It will be 15 years this June.
It is not easy when you love someone as well as your kids so much. For you, it is 13 years of marriage.
I really liked Divorcecare at a local church. I went 3 times. It gave me a voice. I liked the Divorced and single mom support groups on Facebook.
I actually filed twice for divorce and both divorces timed out. No regrets. We failed at divorce. My husband is still the love of my life.
It was like the business club. It was something that I failed at. But sometimes you have to fail before you can succeed. I went on to use the business club as an example in my life. I found a company that I love to work for. It will be 15 years this June.
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