Peaches04

I am confused and anxious about this... My AH and I have a very good married couple of friends - he went to college with my AH and she is his wife, since we've been married, we have become very good friend. My AH got very, VERY mad at his wife because she told me something my AH said about me when he was joking - (you know, the angry "she's doesn't deserve a new car.... alcoholic quacking BS). He was in the car with them, and then he said soemthing to that affect, so she repeated it to me literally right when he dropped them off, she called. So, anyway, my AH called me and I said "why the hell do you feel llike you have to malign me to ....." He said "Oh, my gosh...I was just kidding - she knows that - she always calls and tells you stuff to get you upset" (which, although I completely blame him for being stupid enough to say it...she kind of does do that - but, I've always chalked it up to her being very insecure in her relationship with her husband, and somehow it makes her feel better to point out the things my AH does to me) - thanks, like I'm not aware!! ugh... But, anyway - so my AH calls her husband and just blows up!!! Calls her names, tells her to keep her f*** mouth shut if all she can do is try and manipulate things to hurt me..." Long story short, my AH no longer will talk to her - and even he and her husband have not talked in a while. It makes me sad, because they are like brothers - and dear friends (despite her one 'defect', that again - I accept and still love her). BUT, now that she is so mad at my AH, sometimes when I talk to her she starts telling me about other things he's done...like that he gave her husband some pot (he lied to me about smoking pot - that is unacceptable to me, and was a deal breaker before we got married). Then she'll say something like "I can't believe he called me that - after all the times I covered his a$$ and didn't tell you that he and R smoked at that concert..." or whatever. So, mean while...I'm sitting here thinking...."good to know, that you all three 'dear' friends of mine have these little secrets you've all been keeping from me..." Every time she lets a little 'tid-bit' slip, I just feel sick to my stomach... I try to let it go, knowing that he is working on not drinking or smoking and that we are both really trying hard to make our marriage work now... But #1...it just makes me furious again, about the deceipt from my AH, #2...it makes me feel betrayed that they have all had this 'secret' they keep from me, like I'm some stupid ass, #3 I question her motivation for telling me now? Any thoughts on how to handle this?
I know this was long - I just had to vent. I get so sick of bumping into walls in every directions some days!! Thanks for listening!

StandingStrong

(((Peaches))) I feel for you. It's so hard when you realize you've been left out of the loop of the relationships that you felt were dear true ones.
I really dont know what I would do in your shoes. I mean, I understand your need to know the truth - hence; talking to the other wife. I also know how you feel about your AH remaining friends with the man that he's been friends with so long. However, now that trust has been broken, I think you probably feel very insecure as to where you truly stand in this group of people.
I realized a long time ago that some of my "friends" were actually causing me more stress. Whether it be by the things they did tell me or the things they didn't tell me. And her bringing things up to hurt you - well, I consider that a toxic friendship.
Sometimes it's hard to let go of people we love - even when we know it's in our best interest. This can include friends as well as our spouses, etc.
I think only you can decide what types of friendships and relaitonships that you are willing and wanting in your life. And when you decide on what is best for you - then that decision will bring you peace.
Good luck! I can only tell you that I hope you do what you decide is best for you! Still sending you ((((Hugs))) as I am sure you could use some as you go through this.

Petunia

Peaches,

When we start down the road of recovery we are forced to reevaluate many of the relationships that we are in. We have created relationships (marriages, friendships, acquaintences, "families") under the influence of our "old" selves which may be right for our new healthier self.

Honestly, I would tell this woman that I didn't want to hear any more details. If she brought something up I would shut her down right awa with a polite "I know it might not make sense to you, but I don't want to hear this." . If she gets pissed, there's nothing you can do.

I would be hurt and pissed and annoyed and downright MAD if I was dealing with this type of person. Just because you were friends with someone doesn't mean you have to stay friends with them, especially if you don't feel they support the positive changes you have made in your life.

You are getting it together Peaches. You deserve to be treated with respect by EVERYONE, including your friends, not just your H.

You've got my respect -
Petunia

Gracey

Not only does my husband have to make me feel bad so he feels good......he also has to make other people, like his mom and sister think that I am the worse person in the world......he has to do that so they can feel sorry for him and console him and pity him....

Things that i have been thinking about lately is no wonder his mom hates me so much.....no wonder his mom is such a B*ch to my two older kids.......she has listened for so long how unhappy he is with me.....how I dont do anything......he has told her how lazy my oldest daughter is.......

So I have felt exactly how you are feeling.....Its the three of them......keeping secrets from me....doing things behind my back, talking about me.......I think that they are all in denial on how much of a problem that my H really has......I have questioned his mom's motives for so many things that she has done......but in the end it just drove me crazy.......I think this is where I had to stop worrying about, who said what....and who did what.....it was getting me no where......and I never know who to believe anyway.........So I am trying to give it to God......

I am kinda crazy today.....but for some warped reason in my mind I think this kinda pertains to what you are saying........If It doesnt I am sorry but it felt good to say it.......lol LOCK ME AWAY

Peaches04

Thank you Gracey, Petunia, and StandingStrong...it DOES suck to feel like you've somehow been the butt of some conspiracy behind your back...it just makes me angry at all three of them!! And embarassed, and feeling stupid... and StandingStrong - I do feel like it is 'toxic' to me, in a way. When she brings something up with the "I can't believe"..the OLD (God help me) me - just has the ears perk up and am thinking 'tell me...', but then as soon as she does, just like you say Petunia...I think "why the hell did I do that to myself? why didn't I just say something smart like "what's done, is done and we are working to move on...." They really have been great friends in certain ways - lots of ways, GREAT with my kids - so, that's why I feel like I want to let this resentment go. Her husband just kind of has the attitude "well, it's not MY fault - He (my AH) is a grown man"...which is true, but if I knew that my best friend was going to lose everything she had if she smoked pot - I sure wouldn't ask her to 'score' some for me... idiot! Ooooh...I'm getting mad again...and I know a lot of it is that I'm really mad at my husband and they are probably absorbing a bit of the reverberation...but, then I think about me and how I would handle dealing with them, if this situation were reversed...and it DAMN sure would not be by enabling her husband's secret - and 'pretending' like it was soooo hard one 'me' being put into such an odd position of 'having' to keep his secret. I'd just say "hey,- if you smoke that, I'm telling your wife.... just to let you know." and that, would be that. Then HE could make the choice to be pissed off at me, or not do it, or whatever - but, at least I would have a clean moral inventory. I hate all this alcohol/addiction BS... it really is like a plague, that just creeps up on you and sucks down everything in its path...
Gracey - I think what you say makes perfect sense in this post. It's a bit different, but the same theory - lies and secrets....all at your expense, or so it seems to us. I used to worry all the time about my husband's version of the story he told his friends...just consumed with worry. That was the one of the first things I was able to let go...I finally realized I don't give a damn what any one of them think about me - they clearly do not care what I think of them....so, I'll return the favor.
Whew..it feels good to get ugly today! Thanks so much everybody...your responses mean so much to me!

Karivan

((((Peaches)))) I have to agree with StandingStrong that this is a toxic relationship. I wonder why would she want to hurt you like this? She has to know that it hurts you... Are there unresolved issues in your friendship?

Anyway... I'm sorry you're going through this. Sometimes friendships are just as difficult as relationships. Big hugs to you today. :8a:

Peaches04

Thanks Karivan...and that's a good question. Here is what I think - being the psychologist I like to think I am. My husband (despite being an alcoholic) respects me very much, talks very highly about me (I know this contradicts what I said earlier - but, he gets angry when he's been drinking and we are not getting along and I call him out on it - that's the time when what I mentined above occurs), loves me unconditionally - whether I'm 200 pounds pregnant or 124 pounds normal - no matter what, and we are very close friends. Her husband is very critical of her, is very hard on her for her weight, or being lazy, or trying to 'act smarter' than she is, kind of makes fun of her for being from "the wrong side of the tracks"... So, I think, in some ways, she's jealous? If she only knew the 1/2 of what I've been through - believe me.. well, you know. But, on the other hand...I wouldn't trade my AH even drinking, for someone who thought so little of me, as he seems to. So, she has very low self esteem, and I think that somehow it helps her to push me down maybe? It's just like whenever my AH and I are having problems...she always calls to tell me about something her husband did really great for her...it's really quite bizarre. But, I forgive her because I think it's a problem she has with herself... and she is a good person. But, again - that's Peaches the psychologist speaking... I'll stick with my day job!

Peaches04

PS...when I said "I forgive her" - that's what I've always done in the past, and why I've let it go on. Now, that I've heard everyone's input, I don't know that I will handle this the way I have been. I think I'll consider the cost/return factor, and in the mean time take Petunia's advise, and just cut the conversation out about my husband.
Thanks Karivan!

JessicaNAJ

Peaches - I also would tell her you don't want to hear it and tell her that all of that is in the past. Right now, your not worried about what he's done. You have bigger things to worry about.

My AH's best friend has also broke down and told me how lowly my AH speaks of me, Stupid B, I F hate her, etc. He also told me my AH tried coke in my garage and allowed it (not always using) to continue to go on without my knowledge (a big no no with me/especially because I work at the Sheriff's Office - hello!!). He wasn't telling me out of malic though, he was doing it because he had seen how much I've done for my AH and felt I deserved to know exactly how little my AH respected me behind my back.

Just a thought. You are wise and I'm sure you will handle it properly.

Peaches04

Thanks Jessica - it sounds like your friend had your best interest at heart, and that kind of information I would most definately want to know...and expect to be told. That's why I am so angry? now...because it's like now that my AH is mad at my friend, all the sudden she's telling me how great she was to him and keeping all his and her husbands little pot smoking secrets - when the truth is that she hates that her husband does it too...but, her husband doesn't care what she thinks at all, and she didn't tell me then because she wanted her husband to think she was 'cool'. Had she truly cared about me and the impact it would have had in my right to know and make a decision based on facts - she would have told me when it happened. She's just doing the "how dare he be mad at me - i could have told you about this, or this.... and I didn't!"...not realizing that I'm thinking..."gee, aren't you a great friend to ME...NOT~

velma929

Peaches, it doesn't sound like much of a friend, but it's hard to cut some one out of your life. I can pass along something that worked on me, though. Not alcohol related at all, but useful tactic to at least try: I had started to "vent" er, gossip about a problem I was having with my sister. My friend smiled, took both my hands in both of hers, and said kindly and firmly, "Oh, I don't want to hear about that! I want to hear about YOU! What's going on with you, Velma?"

I would want to know if my life or safety were genuinely at risk "Your husband patronizes prostitutes without using protection" Or "Your husband is dealing drugs out of your home." One could lose her life, or the government can seize your home. But tattling isn't terribly useful, is it? There will be bumps along the way,and the path will not be straight up.

smoke gets in my eyes

Hi Peaches.

A number of years ago, a good friend of mine (we'll call her April) was set on marrying a guy I thought was... unsuitable (we'll call him Drip). My standard reaction to him was "yuck". I asked her a lot of questions but managed to keep from saying what I thought about him. An acquaintance where they both worked was not as patient. She reminded April that Drip had cheated on his first wife, and asked her if she wanted to marry someone like that. April was pissed. Not at Drip. She was mad at the woman for bringing it up. She ranted and raved to me about it. "Can you imagine her having the nerve to say something like that to me?" All the time I'm thinking "She's a better friend to you than I am." But April was going to marry him no matter what I said or thought. I did not want to drive a wedge between us so I kept quiet. It's not that April didn't believe her. She knew about it. She was choosing to go ahead anyway and, in my opinion, did not want any smudges on her rose colored glasses which have since been smashed into pink sand.

How do you think you might have reacted if your friend had told you about this earlier? Do you think there might have been some element of "How is this any of her business?" just like there is now? "Why did she say that?" What is she trying to do? or prove?" Having unhappy information is kind of a no-win situation and your friend sounds like a confused person anyway.

I have outgrown a lot of relationships in my recovery. I am not nearly as indulgeant of people who are clingy, needy, martyrish, manipulative or deceitful. But that is largely because I don't crave being clung to, needed, a rescuer, finessed or indulged in my denial. Sounds like you're there.

Hugs!
Smoke

DesertEyes

Heya Peaches,

You're doing real well. Sharing when things rattle you. Here's my .02 worth.

There's two separate issues for you to examine, "Dr." Peaches :-)

#1 I evaluate people the same way I evaluate meetings. I look at how I feel _after_ I have interacted with them. Do I feel hopeful? Do I feel that they have helped me clarify some of my own character defects in a _postive_ manner? Do I feel that they have my best interests in mind? Are they respectful of my level of growth and not "dump" all manner of truths on me when I'm not yet ready for them. Are these people "healthy" for me in that they are supportive of my growth?

#2 When people make me lose my serenity, as you have pointed out, I ask myself this. Why did I _allow_ this person to rattle my serenity? Clearly this person is a suffering soul in need of a program. I am not in a position today where I can be a support to this person, I lack the experience, strength and hope to be an example to them, so I can't help them. However, that does not mean I should allow myself to harm _my_ recovery by getting emotionally involved with them. People like this "push my buttons" and cause emotional reactions in me. I need to stay away from them, in order to protect my serenity, but I also need to look within and examine _why_ I have those "emotional buttons".

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

Peaches04

Thanks Smoke - and yes, I totally get where you are coming from. I promise..I get it! She has told me many things before when it serves a purpose for her - like when she is angry and something her husband and mine did, or again - me being the psychologist - when things are going really good with me and my AH and not so well with her and hers (she has major insecurity issues with her hubby). And, actually, in ALL honesty - I have never once blamed her or responded with any ill will towards her, and was glad she told me at the time, because it was something I needed to know to make the best decisions for me. She knows I have a major issue with this for a long time and that it is not something I want in my life, and had I known sooner - I would have asked him to leave - like I did the time I actually caught him. She is actually more like a sister to me, than a friend. So, I think that makes this all that much more leaving me feel betrayed. I assure you, my real sisters would have called me with him standing right there, and then probably beat the sh** out of him...
I may have said this earlier - but the thing that makes me confused and frustrated is why is she telling me NOW? Then I realize the only reason is that my husband is mad at her, so she is trying to rationalize how he shouldn't be mad at her, and all the times she has "covered" him. And because of this - now I'm starting to just feel like the three of them have been disloyal to me and I feel betrayed - does that make sense? And in all 100% sincerity, had the situation been reversed, and it would have been me with her husband and mine (which would NEVER happen because I wouldnt' allow them to be doing that around me) - I would have said "If you choose to do that, I think your wife should know, and I will tell her". I would have risked whatever ramifications that meant. I know that would be hard, and I know more people than not, would not do that - so that may be an unrealistic expectation on my part. To your point - I can understand why she didn't tell me, but it wasn't to protect me, I can assure you. It was so she could still be the 'cool' wife, with her husband and mine. Other than this I adore her - and I know it is because she is so insecure with herself and certainly with her husband. I almost don't even think it's a concious decision - I think it's just something she does without realizing she's doing it.

jalacola

I totally know where you are coming from. My AH has a best friend from early in college (he's now 30). He and his wife live in the same city as us and they have a very active social life, very much involving drinking. I have NEVER liked this friend or rather the influence he has always had on my husband. My husband is very much a follower. You know the term, "Well, if so and so jumped off a bridge..." Well, my husband would jump right along with this guy. After he got married 6 years ago, I became closer to his wife (a self-admitted alcoholic, though she doesn't care to seek help--she has no problem with her drinking). Though I now know that they were not to blame for my husband's problem, they were very much a catalyst. I know that AH did things that she knew about, probably more b/c her husband told her, having to do with drinking and such, but she didn't tell me. My feeling on this is that she views herself as the wife of my AH's best friend--not necessarily his friend or mine even. I feel that she felt it wasn't her place. I understand that position. If I were to tell her things that I KNOW her husband had done, not only would it ruin their marriage, but probably mine as well because it would ruin their friendship. I wish my AH just wouldn't tell me stuff! lol! Now, if I would ask her, she would certainly tell me. That is how I would explain them keeping things from you. Especially since it was your husband's best friend's wife. NOT AT ALL that this excuses it...just this might explain it. Now, as far as her coming out and telling you all of that stuff, yes, it was probably her feeling that if she was going down, she was taking everyone with her. DEFINITELY toxic. But me personally? I would want to know anyway. Whether it is something he says while drunk or not, I would want to know. I have always called alcohol "TRUTH SYRUM." Your AH is probably so angry with her more for spilling the beans whenever she feels and busting him. That's just my opinon from my personal experience.

smoke gets in my eyes

Hiya Peaches!

The reason she's telling you now is that she doesn't know what team she wants to be on. Since only you know her, we can only speculate about what events have rocked her world recently to make her wonder. Maybe it's your recovery. There's no question that ooky things went on here. All you can do is kind of wait to see if she's making a clumsy attempt at personal growth or just trying to make herself feel or look good. But a thing for you to remember is that the information she had was really useless. If you hadn't known your husband was using pot you wouldn't have been making rules against it. You knew. You simply chose to indulge in unreasonable doubt, calling it reasonable, because you did not want to follow through on your "or else". It doesn't make them less ooky. But realizing this will help you to stop feeling like a victim. You went along because it was your choice at the time to go along. The deceit and betrayal are real. They are measley little liars. But at no time did the measley little liars ever have any power or control over you. Now! Think of a pointalist painting. They're the ones where the color is put on in little bitty dots. That's all you see if you look closely but back up and you've got yourself a picture. The big picture. All this woman ever had of your big picture was a few dots. The fact that five dots in the lower left corner were green when you swore they were yellow really doesn't change the image. It was the total impact of all the dots that made an ugly scene and you certainly didn't miss that!

More hugs!
Smoke