Am I wrong?
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Am I wrong?
I found a quote on some threads I've held onto... something like... i became stronger when i forgave someone who wasn't sorry and accepted the apology i never got... But, I still am feeling like... I want that and I need that. Not to be right. But to know that he knows what he did to me through his alcoholism... I've wanted to tell him everyday we've been apart without communication, but... at the same time, I know he would respond with disgust towards me being weak, or deny it, or maybe not even say anything at all and probably chalk it up in his mind like always that I'm "crazy". I'm trying to do the right thing and fix myself first.. but how do I do that when I feel like he has never known how his disease has effected me. Should I even want that? Am I being selfish now? The thing I always hated that alcohol did to him..
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Hi
You are still very early in your own recovery from the relationship. Your emotions are raw and deep. And there is still a burdensome journey ahead for yourself.
Once you gain more understanding about yourself and about addiction, you have the answers to these questions.
Use the space he left and educate yourself but not to a point of obsession.
Part of my own work - i kept a voice journal sometime daily sometimes twice daily and would be open and honest as if he were there or just to clear my thoughts. Very interesting to go back and listen once you progress.
You are still very early in your own recovery from the relationship. Your emotions are raw and deep. And there is still a burdensome journey ahead for yourself.
Once you gain more understanding about yourself and about addiction, you have the answers to these questions.
Use the space he left and educate yourself but not to a point of obsession.
Part of my own work - i kept a voice journal sometime daily sometimes twice daily and would be open and honest as if he were there or just to clear my thoughts. Very interesting to go back and listen once you progress.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 88
And also he cannot give the answers when he doesn't know himself why he is doing what he does. He is drinking to self medicate or he is having a biological / chemical reaction outside a rational mind.
Once he is in sobriety he can look inside.
Once he is in sobriety he can look inside.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
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You really don't need him to accept anything for you to turn your focus off of him and on to yourself, but I get that it feels that way right now. What you're asking isn't selfish, but it is far more than he is capable of in active addiction, and to hold up your own progress until he is would be to give him far more power over your happiness than either if you deserve.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Della,
how do I do that when I feel like he has never known how his disease has effected me.........
You have never told him????? I am sure you have, many times over, using many different ways.
What you are looking for is a response from him recognizing what he has done to you. You want him to own it, and apologize to your for the hell he has put you through. He can't own anything when he truly believes that he has done nothing wrong. All this man wants to do is drink in peace. He wants to be left alone and not have to deal with daily bs of someone who supposedly "loves" him and nags him daily, about his drinking. He can't see the destruction of his life, until he has real life consequences. Meaning a dui, losing a job, a car accident, winding up in jail or divorce. Those are the things that he might say, wow, life is pretty crappy, "maybe" I need to get some help, but maybe not.
You need to stop expecting normal, from someone who is an addict, it's just not possible. Once you accept that, you can move forward in your healing . It's not fair, and its not fun, but we need to accept this for ourselves.
how do I do that when I feel like he has never known how his disease has effected me.........
You have never told him????? I am sure you have, many times over, using many different ways.
What you are looking for is a response from him recognizing what he has done to you. You want him to own it, and apologize to your for the hell he has put you through. He can't own anything when he truly believes that he has done nothing wrong. All this man wants to do is drink in peace. He wants to be left alone and not have to deal with daily bs of someone who supposedly "loves" him and nags him daily, about his drinking. He can't see the destruction of his life, until he has real life consequences. Meaning a dui, losing a job, a car accident, winding up in jail or divorce. Those are the things that he might say, wow, life is pretty crappy, "maybe" I need to get some help, but maybe not.
You need to stop expecting normal, from someone who is an addict, it's just not possible. Once you accept that, you can move forward in your healing . It's not fair, and its not fun, but we need to accept this for ourselves.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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I think you read that as my signature. Eventually you will no longer feel the NEED to get that apology, or for your qualifier to understand what they did. You will be strong enough to know that you can carry on with your own life, and that person will never likely change, and you don't need anything else from them. It takes a while, but when you get there, you know that you have experienced your own healing. To carry around that emotional baggage hurts one person, you.
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The ability to be honest with yourself is the first thing that dies from alcohol. It’s not called the disease of denial for nothing.
I get it, I really do. I tend to harbor anger for a long time and when people yap at me about “forgiveness” I roll my eyes so hard my head hurts.
But here’s something I read here that finally hit home: “Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”
Letting my gut churn day and night is just hurting me, not them. So “forgiveness” is more about not doing that than absolving others of their actions. What I’m still trying to figure out is how you stay wary enough of those who hurt you to avoid being hurt again while simultaneously letting it go.
Life is so COMPLEX, yes?
I understand. But if he could do what you’d want he wouldn’t be in this mess.
Deep breath, yes?
Sending you a hug.
I get it, I really do. I tend to harbor anger for a long time and when people yap at me about “forgiveness” I roll my eyes so hard my head hurts.
But here’s something I read here that finally hit home: “Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”
Letting my gut churn day and night is just hurting me, not them. So “forgiveness” is more about not doing that than absolving others of their actions. What I’m still trying to figure out is how you stay wary enough of those who hurt you to avoid being hurt again while simultaneously letting it go.
Life is so COMPLEX, yes?
I understand. But if he could do what you’d want he wouldn’t be in this mess.
Deep breath, yes?
Sending you a hug.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
dellaND, picture your anger as a piece of red yarn tied from you to him. In order to get free and untangled from him you are going to need to cut that yarn. Because the more you keep it attached the more the anger can flow, the obsessive need to be validated by the very person who is unable to validate your feelings or hurts, will continue to strangle you emotionally.
By cutting that yarn you free yourself from him, that’s what forgiving someone who you will never get an apology from means. It’s not about him, it’s about you and how you want to approach life. You can hold onto bitterness and resentment and anger or you can begin to free yourself from all of that by accepting some realities that extremely hard to accept.
By cutting that yarn you free yourself from him, that’s what forgiving someone who you will never get an apology from means. It’s not about him, it’s about you and how you want to approach life. You can hold onto bitterness and resentment and anger or you can begin to free yourself from all of that by accepting some realities that extremely hard to accept.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Originally Posted by maia1234 
Della,
You have never told him????? I am sure you have, many times over, using many different ways.
What you are looking for is a response from him recognizing what he has done to you. You want him to own it, and apologize to your for the hell he has put you through. He can't own anything when he truly believes that he has done nothing wrong. All this man wants to do is drink in peace. He wants to be left alone and not have to deal with daily bs of someone who supposedly "loves" him and nags him daily, about his drinking. He can't see the destruction of his life, until he has real life consequences. Meaning a dui, losing a job, a car accident, winding up in jail or divorce. Those are the things that he might say, wow, life is pretty crappy, "maybe" I need to get some help, but maybe not.
You need to stop expecting normal, from someone who is an addict, it's just not possible. Once you accept that, you can move forward in your healing . It's not fair, and its not fun, but we need to accept this for ourselves.
You have never told him????? I am sure you have, many times over, using many different ways.
What you are looking for is a response from him recognizing what he has done to you. You want him to own it, and apologize to your for the hell he has put you through. He can't own anything when he truly believes that he has done nothing wrong. All this man wants to do is drink in peace. He wants to be left alone and not have to deal with daily bs of someone who supposedly "loves" him and nags him daily, about his drinking. He can't see the destruction of his life, until he has real life consequences. Meaning a dui, losing a job, a car accident, winding up in jail or divorce. Those are the things that he might say, wow, life is pretty crappy, "maybe" I need to get some help, but maybe not.
You need to stop expecting normal, from someone who is an addict, it's just not possible. Once you accept that, you can move forward in your healing . It's not fair, and its not fun, but we need to accept this for ourselves.
Thank you all for the responses. You all are helping me find the strength I've been missing for so long.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by dellaND
It was devastating that when he asked me to move out, the last thing he said to me was "well, see ya later" with a serious face, no emotion, just a blank look in his eyes.
I struggled w/things for about another month and then sat down w/him and told him I'd turned things over and over in my mind since the big blowout and I was going to file for divorce. We'd been together for 20 years at that time, married for just over 18.
His response? "Well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do." With the same lack of affect as your A. No emotion, bland, I might as well have been telling him I was making meatloaf for dinner.
But as you said, maybe right now he is incapable of normal emotions especially since he does not think he has a problem or that he had ever done anything wrong to cause the break up, In his eyes it was me asking unrealistic unreasonable things of him.
della, we take all that crap to heart, but it simply isn't true. Reading around as much as you can to hear other stories will help you realize it's just what they do to protect their addiction. It feels personal, but it isn't. Make sure to check the stickies, too. All of that will help you understand that accusations of this type are really not at all about YOU but instead all about the A.
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Wow honeypig... the first thread you sent me brought back so many memories that I had pushed out of my head. All the nights we would fight and he would eventually walk away and go to bed without any resolution and sleep like a baby. I remember staying awake for hours crying and never once did he try to comfort me. I always asked myself how can he sleep so peacefully when all this is going on and I would eventually cry myself to sleep for maybe an hour or two before waking up from awful dreams. The more I cried, the more "disgusted" he would be of me, or call me "weak" or a "baby". There is a positive of remembering these nights now though (and I'm proud I'm starting to think this way, finally...) I would rather be alone and sad at night, then ever relive those nights crying and feeling destroyed and alone when he was 400 ft away. Thank you.
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And della, as I was re-reading the 2nd thread I sent you, I came to the part where XAH claimed to not even remember the events of the evening before, where we fought, he stormed off, came home, at a Subway sandwich he'd bought b/c he "wasn't sure what was up w/dinner", stormed off again and came home again later.
I was thinking of how you'd said that your A saw things differently than you did, and I agreed w/you, saying that XAH saw himself as a victim, etc. In thinking more, I would have to say that in my case, and perhaps in yours, the A didn't see anything period. I honestly wonder how much he even recalls. In the first thread, he claimed he didn't even know I was crying, although I cannot see any possible way that was not visible. His reality barely overlapped mine at best; we were NOT living in the same world. No wonder he thought I overreacted and "rushed to divorce" and so on. He was likely unaware of a significant portion of what even went on.
So yes, all that is important to bear in mind. It's very much a "blind men and the elephant" situation--as long as he's drinking, he will inhabiting a different world than yours, and so to expect an active A to see things the same way you do is to be doomed to disappointment.
I was thinking of how you'd said that your A saw things differently than you did, and I agreed w/you, saying that XAH saw himself as a victim, etc. In thinking more, I would have to say that in my case, and perhaps in yours, the A didn't see anything period. I honestly wonder how much he even recalls. In the first thread, he claimed he didn't even know I was crying, although I cannot see any possible way that was not visible. His reality barely overlapped mine at best; we were NOT living in the same world. No wonder he thought I overreacted and "rushed to divorce" and so on. He was likely unaware of a significant portion of what even went on.
So yes, all that is important to bear in mind. It's very much a "blind men and the elephant" situation--as long as he's drinking, he will inhabiting a different world than yours, and so to expect an active A to see things the same way you do is to be doomed to disappointment.
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I think that sometimes this is the hardest part. Because we have to sit with ALL of it. There are so many hurts and what you want is what you would normally give to (and get from) another person: compassion, understanding, an apology if needed, working together to find solutions that would improve the situation for all concerned. But the alcoholics in our lives don't have the capacity to give that to us ... hell, that can't even give that to themselves!
You are not wrong in wanting it - I want it too - very badly. But then I start asking myself - in getting that apology, that nod of understanding, the "Gee, I really hurt you and did terrible things" ... what am I hoping that it is going to accomplish. How would that apology help me heal? Is there any way that I can give it to myself. For me, it starts with being kind to myself, acknowledging the efforts I put into this relationship, being present to the lessons I learned and then try, try, try to shift my mind to something else ... like chocolate and Netflix!
A great big thank you to HoneyPig: THANK YOU!!! My biggest take away is how much things have changed for you in the past few years. Your voice sounds so much stronger - you give me hope.
You are not wrong in wanting it - I want it too - very badly. But then I start asking myself - in getting that apology, that nod of understanding, the "Gee, I really hurt you and did terrible things" ... what am I hoping that it is going to accomplish. How would that apology help me heal? Is there any way that I can give it to myself. For me, it starts with being kind to myself, acknowledging the efforts I put into this relationship, being present to the lessons I learned and then try, try, try to shift my mind to something else ... like chocolate and Netflix!
A great big thank you to HoneyPig: THANK YOU!!! My biggest take away is how much things have changed for you in the past few years. Your voice sounds so much stronger - you give me hope.
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