In theory....
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In theory....
First, this is not my story; I am just trying to understand something about codependence. The basis of what I am trying to understand is that IF you have an alcoholic spouse, are you automatically codependent? Can we make that assumption?
Here is a friend's story with the names changed:
John and Julie had been married 10 years. They both had good paying jobs, and they had one daughter who was 5 years old. Things seemed pretty good for them--they traveled together, were best friends, etc.
But shortly after their 10th anniversary, John's best friend was killed in a drunk driving accident. Two months after that, his mom lost her battle with cancer. While John used to drink socially in the past, after these two losses it was no longer a "social" thing.
When John's drinking gets out of control, does Julie automatically become a codependent? If not, what does a non-codependent Julie do?
Here is a friend's story with the names changed:
John and Julie had been married 10 years. They both had good paying jobs, and they had one daughter who was 5 years old. Things seemed pretty good for them--they traveled together, were best friends, etc.
But shortly after their 10th anniversary, John's best friend was killed in a drunk driving accident. Two months after that, his mom lost her battle with cancer. While John used to drink socially in the past, after these two losses it was no longer a "social" thing.
When John's drinking gets out of control, does Julie automatically become a codependent? If not, what does a non-codependent Julie do?
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It is not automatic. It depends on how Julie handles the situation. If Julie does not maintain good boundaries and protect herself from the consequences of John's drinking, then it's possible Julie is codependent.
If Julie rushes into to protect John from the consequences of his drinking, at the cost of her own well-being, that's a sign of codependence. But if this is how Julie addresses the problem, it is very likely that she is has other issues that John's drinking has merely brought to the surface. Somewhere along the way, Julie might have learned that other people's feelings are her responsibility. Or she may not have. No one can say for sure; people are phenomenally complex creatures.
Codependence is a multi-layered thing, not necessarily a direct result of one situation in a person's life. I learned codependence at home, with an alcoholic mother and a codependent father. I was taught it was somehow noble and loving to sacrifice my own needs, wants, and feelings for the sake of someone else.
Non-codependent Julie protects herself and her children from the consequences of John's drinking because she fundamentally recognizes and respects that John is an individual separate from herself, and that only he can turn his ship around. Furthermore, she recognizes and respects herself as an individual who should not have to suffer because of someone else's inability or unwillingness to handle "life on life's terms."
If Julie rushes into to protect John from the consequences of his drinking, at the cost of her own well-being, that's a sign of codependence. But if this is how Julie addresses the problem, it is very likely that she is has other issues that John's drinking has merely brought to the surface. Somewhere along the way, Julie might have learned that other people's feelings are her responsibility. Or she may not have. No one can say for sure; people are phenomenally complex creatures.
Codependence is a multi-layered thing, not necessarily a direct result of one situation in a person's life. I learned codependence at home, with an alcoholic mother and a codependent father. I was taught it was somehow noble and loving to sacrifice my own needs, wants, and feelings for the sake of someone else.
Non-codependent Julie protects herself and her children from the consequences of John's drinking because she fundamentally recognizes and respects that John is an individual separate from herself, and that only he can turn his ship around. Furthermore, she recognizes and respects herself as an individual who should not have to suffer because of someone else's inability or unwillingness to handle "life on life's terms."
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Originally Posted by sylvie83 
I don't think someone would just become codependent out of nowhere...as far as I understand it, codependency is a name for a set of behaviours that are learnt over a long period...sometimes since childhood...a way of relating to people and a way of understanding yourself.
If someone told me this story and was questioning alcoholism, i'd probably be thinking that the man's best friend died in a drink driving accident...that would have me wondering about heavy alcohol use and risky behaviour in his close circle of friends already and about what normal "social drinking" meant to him and his partner.
But this is all just me speculating..
It's an interesting question.
This is a bit all over the place. Hope it makes sense. Just my thoughts..
If someone told me this story and was questioning alcoholism, i'd probably be thinking that the man's best friend died in a drink driving accident...that would have me wondering about heavy alcohol use and risky behaviour in his close circle of friends already and about what normal "social drinking" meant to him and his partner.
But this is all just me speculating..
It's an interesting question.
This is a bit all over the place. Hope it makes sense. Just my thoughts..
These are all good thoughts...I thought it was something that was a pattern of behavior, too, but I wasn't sure.
Interesting thought on alcoholism, too--I have seen it develop pretty fast, but I wonder when does coping with drinking become alcoholism. To me, that is something only the alcoholic may be able to tell you (in a SOBER moment...lol).
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Dvw,
I personally believe that alcoholism is in your dna, but that is just me. You are born with it. I don't believe people have a choice. Alcohlism is progressive, it will always get worse. Functioning alcoholic is only a stage in the progression of the disease. He was going down that path, it was only a matter of time.
Codependents I feel are naturally overly caring people. I feel we are groomed by our addicts. I think non codependents are "self centered" healthy grounded people who don't allow people to use them. I am not saying this in a mean way, I am almost jealous that they can seperate themselves from trying to save someone, unlike myself, as I am always there to help someone.
I was so sick I used to tell axh to go to the bar and meet your friend's, and have fun, and I will run all your errands. Ugh, just crazy!! I was pretty sick.
I believe everything is God's plan for us. If I just step out of the way, and let things happen the way they are suppose too, my life gets bettter. It has just taken me 50 years to figure this out.
I personally believe that alcoholism is in your dna, but that is just me. You are born with it. I don't believe people have a choice. Alcohlism is progressive, it will always get worse. Functioning alcoholic is only a stage in the progression of the disease. He was going down that path, it was only a matter of time.
Codependents I feel are naturally overly caring people. I feel we are groomed by our addicts. I think non codependents are "self centered" healthy grounded people who don't allow people to use them. I am not saying this in a mean way, I am almost jealous that they can seperate themselves from trying to save someone, unlike myself, as I am always there to help someone.
I was so sick I used to tell axh to go to the bar and meet your friend's, and have fun, and I will run all your errands. Ugh, just crazy!! I was pretty sick.
I believe everything is God's plan for us. If I just step out of the way, and let things happen the way they are suppose too, my life gets bettter. It has just taken me 50 years to figure this out.
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I don't believe that temporarily turning to excessive drinking under these conditions, while unwise, means that person is automatically an alcoholic.
Some therapists believe that the whole world is basically codependent, and needs recovery.
Some therapists believe that the whole world is basically codependent, and needs recovery.
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I don't think addiction is always the outcome of an extended period of heavy drinking. I have a good friend who drank large amounts while her partner was dying of cancer, over a six-month period. My friend was absolutely clear about what she was doing - she was using alcohol as a crutch to enable her to get through these last few months because it gave her temporary reprieve from the intensity of what was happening. She was able to be present and loving for her partner through her final moments.
A couple of months later, my friend consciously started reducing her consumption of alcohol, down to zero drinks, where she stayed for a couple of months. She now has one or two beers on a social occasion, which is about a quarter of what she was drinking before. She had an episode of heavy drinking that happened because of extraordinarily stressful circumstances and ended when the circumstances ended. The alcohol didn't latch onto some pre-existing circuit problem in her brain, and she wasn't using it to numb long-term problems and anxieties. She also avoided the spiral of shame because she didn't do things while she was drinking that she would be ashamed of afterwards.
A couple of months later, my friend consciously started reducing her consumption of alcohol, down to zero drinks, where she stayed for a couple of months. She now has one or two beers on a social occasion, which is about a quarter of what she was drinking before. She had an episode of heavy drinking that happened because of extraordinarily stressful circumstances and ended when the circumstances ended. The alcohol didn't latch onto some pre-existing circuit problem in her brain, and she wasn't using it to numb long-term problems and anxieties. She also avoided the spiral of shame because she didn't do things while she was drinking that she would be ashamed of afterwards.
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alcoholism does not CREATE codependency. however living with an active alcoholic/addict can certainly coax those tendencies out!!! especially if one is convinced that they see the REAL person underneath and that THEY can FIX them.
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I don't think I was codependent most of my life. And my ex became addicted years after we got together, when his mother died. Until then our relationship was pretty healthy.
But man oh man, when his mother died, did the wheels ever come off the bus. I loved the guy, and did everything I could to help him find recovery. I put him first for about two years, at great expense to myself. It didn't work out. He's now in jail after being involved in a hit and run dui.
Luckily I ended the relationship before that happened.
In my case, I believe I became codependent while dealing with his crazy behavior. And this lead me to believe that there is such a thing as situational codependency. In other words, the yin and yang of interacting with an addict can bring out codependency in loved ones where it didn't exist before.
For me, after I ended the relationship with my ex, I had a string of 3 or 4 short, very dysfunctional relationships before I got my own stability back. I'd never had relationships that I would call dysfunctional before (well, other than my mother, but that is a story for another day))
Anyway, I had to take a good, hard look inside myself to get past the damage that living with addiction did to me. I had become very "other" focused, and it took a while to bring that focus back to inside myself, where it belongs.
But man oh man, when his mother died, did the wheels ever come off the bus. I loved the guy, and did everything I could to help him find recovery. I put him first for about two years, at great expense to myself. It didn't work out. He's now in jail after being involved in a hit and run dui.
Luckily I ended the relationship before that happened.
In my case, I believe I became codependent while dealing with his crazy behavior. And this lead me to believe that there is such a thing as situational codependency. In other words, the yin and yang of interacting with an addict can bring out codependency in loved ones where it didn't exist before.
For me, after I ended the relationship with my ex, I had a string of 3 or 4 short, very dysfunctional relationships before I got my own stability back. I'd never had relationships that I would call dysfunctional before (well, other than my mother, but that is a story for another day
)) Anyway, I had to take a good, hard look inside myself to get past the damage that living with addiction did to me. I had become very "other" focused, and it took a while to bring that focus back to inside myself, where it belongs.
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Originally Posted by dejavuwife
but I wonder when does coping with drinking become alcoholism. To me, that is something only the alcoholic may be able to tell you (in a SOBER moment...lol).
people that arent alcoholics, as far as i know, dont cope with a drink. they cope with solutions.
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I think often people drink more in an attempt to cope with adverse situations.
I know I did.
In my case, I developed a dependence on alcohol that could only be remedied by abstinence.
But...I have known people who have drunk more than they used to while grieving, then realize that this is not healthy and cut back or have stopped altogether.
I know I did.
In my case, I developed a dependence on alcohol that could only be remedied by abstinence.
But...I have known people who have drunk more than they used to while grieving, then realize that this is not healthy and cut back or have stopped altogether.
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