The cycle continues.....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 38
The cycle continues.....
AW promises she'll take a break "tomorrow". I understand "tomorrow" never really truly arrives, and so tonight it will be "tomorrow" again because this was such a horrible election night to live through and she's more depressed than usual because of the results at the top of the ticket. At least she's actively looking for work without my input this time around, so that's different. But it's still the same walking on eggshells until it's time to go to sleep pattern that's been the hallmark of our relationship for at least a couple years now.... 
I keep telling her she should work with a professional but she's sure she can do it herself this time around (again) with my help. Pointing out that I cannot possibly help her with this leads to more arguing about how she's trying and why can't I be more supportive? I'm trying to be supportive, but she doesn't understand that I don't have the training or the strength to help her fight this particular demon and she should really find someone with more expertise.
I keep telling her she should work with a professional but she's sure she can do it herself this time around (again) with my help. Pointing out that I cannot possibly help her with this leads to more arguing about how she's trying and why can't I be more supportive? I'm trying to be supportive, but she doesn't understand that I don't have the training or the strength to help her fight this particular demon and she should really find someone with more expertise.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
This arrangement is totally working for her, why would she want to actually change it? She understands that the more she can keep you sucked into this pattern, placing blame on you for "not helping enough" or "not being more supportive," the longer she can continue to do exactly what she's doing.
I used to take my ex's slightest utterances about not wanting to spend so much at the liquor store/bar or wanting to "take a break" as absolute gospel. I put so much stock in his words and kept so busy trying to meet his ever-evolving demands on what I needed to do that I missed the fact that nothing was really changing. He was getting all of his needs met. He got to keep drinking.
My life didn't change until I decided to change myself and my choices. If I hadn't I would still be waiting for him to do something different. Working the Al Anon program and going to individual therapy helped me untangle the mental and emotional mess that my life had become after years of living with alcoholic behavior.
If she's unemployed where does the booze $ come from?
I used to take my ex's slightest utterances about not wanting to spend so much at the liquor store/bar or wanting to "take a break" as absolute gospel. I put so much stock in his words and kept so busy trying to meet his ever-evolving demands on what I needed to do that I missed the fact that nothing was really changing. He was getting all of his needs met. He got to keep drinking.
My life didn't change until I decided to change myself and my choices. If I hadn't I would still be waiting for him to do something different. Working the Al Anon program and going to individual therapy helped me untangle the mental and emotional mess that my life had become after years of living with alcoholic behavior.
If she's unemployed where does the booze $ come from?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
she is putting the onus of HER drinking or not drinking on YOU....that is what she means by "needs your help" - she needs a fall guy. if she is TRYING and you are HELPING and she's still DRINKING, then it must be...........
your fault.
and as along as you indulge in these conversations, again and again and again, and talk to her about getting into recovery as if she has ANY intention of lifting a finger to change,then you enable the charade to continue.
how about if you drop the topic of her drinking from the dialogue, from your vocabulary? just completely detach from it......let her do exactly what she's going to do, without listening to a single word she says about what she's GOING to do. just watch what she actually DOES.
Yodo said - there is not try, only DO. trying to quit drinking without actually quitting drinking is like trying to swim without actually getting IN to the pool.
your fault.
and as along as you indulge in these conversations, again and again and again, and talk to her about getting into recovery as if she has ANY intention of lifting a finger to change,then you enable the charade to continue.
how about if you drop the topic of her drinking from the dialogue, from your vocabulary? just completely detach from it......let her do exactly what she's going to do, without listening to a single word she says about what she's GOING to do. just watch what she actually DOES.
Yodo said - there is not try, only DO. trying to quit drinking without actually quitting drinking is like trying to swim without actually getting IN to the pool.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I can't add a word to the wisdom posted by Anvil, so I will just offer my support and encourage you to find a meeting near you where you can find your balance and regain your sanity.
Actions speak louder than words. Your actions may just save your emotional life.
Actions speak louder than words. Your actions may just save your emotional life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler 
If she's unemployed where does the booze $ come from?
I will say that I don't bring up her drinking anymore, but she likes to remind me that she's trying to be "better" every couple days or so without my prompting. I know she's covering for the fact that going to a meeting means actually quitting rather than just stringing it along. Her doctor has also said she should seek professional help but she's also refused to entertain that suggestion as well so far. I appreciate the perspective here, thank you all for your insight.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 45
Mr Mystery...just been through all of that tonight! I just don't have the energy to listen or to care anymore! Totally sick of rows and flying chairs...and anything else that can be smashed or broken! MOST sick of being blamed for everything though....everything! Also sick of verbal insults...you are fat...you are a crazy b@#ch!...etc. Don't try to fight or argue...just stay well clear of it...we are always going to be the target of their self-loathing! The minute they understand that it's their fault, then they have to accept that it is their choice to drink....they won't risk letting that happen, because 'responsible' is not in their vocabulary!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
she is putting the onus of HER drinking or not drinking on YOU....that is what she means by "needs your help" - she needs a fall guy. if she is TRYING and you are HELPING and she's still DRINKING, then it must be...........
your fault.
and as along as you indulge in these conversations, again and again and again, and talk to her about getting into recovery as if she has ANY intention of lifting a finger to change,then you enable the charade to continue.
how about if you drop the topic of her drinking from the dialogue, from your vocabulary? just completely detach from it......let her do exactly what she's going to do, without listening to a single word she says about what she's GOING to do. just watch what she actually DOES.
Yodo said - there is not try, only DO. trying to quit drinking without actually quitting drinking is like trying to swim without actually getting IN to the pool.
your fault.
and as along as you indulge in these conversations, again and again and again, and talk to her about getting into recovery as if she has ANY intention of lifting a finger to change,then you enable the charade to continue.
how about if you drop the topic of her drinking from the dialogue, from your vocabulary? just completely detach from it......let her do exactly what she's going to do, without listening to a single word she says about what she's GOING to do. just watch what she actually DOES.
Yodo said - there is not try, only DO. trying to quit drinking without actually quitting drinking is like trying to swim without actually getting IN to the pool.
It took so much courage for me to tell him how his addiction affected me at the end of this Summer, and now he is trying to get me to agree with him going back! WTH!
I was in shock. I didn't have the energy for this (I am seeing this as a theme, how they sap our energy). I was silent for a while. He kept pressing. I said "I don't want to get yelled at any more" and left.
I feel like a coward, but at least I didn't let myself get sucked in to a twisted conversation where I'd eventually AGREE to this. Why do they not see the pain we are in?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
carolineo....we see alcohol as the problem....alcoholics see alcohol as the solution.
Two different planets.
If they were to see alcoholism as the problem (like we do)...they would have to quit drinking, altogether. This feels like an impossibility for alcoholics.
Their denial protects them from the truth.....
Two different planets.
If they were to see alcoholism as the problem (like we do)...they would have to quit drinking, altogether. This feels like an impossibility for alcoholics.
Their denial protects them from the truth.....
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 216
Sorry to hear you are caught in the cycle. I know that feeling all too well. You are not alone. Unfortunately, I tried for years to change the narrative, or held out hope that the next promise would not be broken.
I will say it did get a lot easier when I was detached from it and stopped trying to control it. I remember there was so much discontent and tension in the room when I felt her trying to restrain from drinking JUST because she was trying to keep a promise. And the camel's back eventually broke anyway. She really has to WANT to stop really bad, for her, before it takes. Stopping for your sake because you want her to never works.
Just remember none of this, not even a little, is your fault. For a long time I fell victim to the rhetoric that my dissatisfaction with the drinking was the reason the drinking continued. I bet you have heard before, that the reason she keeps drinking, is because you keep giving her a hard time about it, and it makes her want to drink more. I'll tell you from experience - Even being totally out of the picture or even just together, but not saying anything about the drinking...doesn't change one thing. The drinking happens because she wants to drink. Simple as that. Not your fault.
Coming here and posting is always a huge help for me. Let us know how you are feeling.
I will say it did get a lot easier when I was detached from it and stopped trying to control it. I remember there was so much discontent and tension in the room when I felt her trying to restrain from drinking JUST because she was trying to keep a promise. And the camel's back eventually broke anyway. She really has to WANT to stop really bad, for her, before it takes. Stopping for your sake because you want her to never works.
Just remember none of this, not even a little, is your fault. For a long time I fell victim to the rhetoric that my dissatisfaction with the drinking was the reason the drinking continued. I bet you have heard before, that the reason she keeps drinking, is because you keep giving her a hard time about it, and it makes her want to drink more. I'll tell you from experience - Even being totally out of the picture or even just together, but not saying anything about the drinking...doesn't change one thing. The drinking happens because she wants to drink. Simple as that. Not your fault.
Coming here and posting is always a huge help for me. Let us know how you are feeling.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Wells
I bet you have heard before, that the reason she keeps drinking, is because you keep giving her a hard time about it, and it makes her want to drink more. I'll tell you from experience - Even being totally out of the picture or even just together, but not saying anything about the drinking...doesn't change one thing. The drinking happens because she wants to drink. Simple as that. Not your fault.
Coming here and posting is always a huge help for me. Let us know how you are feeling.
Coming here and posting is always a huge help for me. Let us know how you are feeling.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
so I am cautiously optimistic she will get there someday
that could be a very long time, MrM. it could also be NEVER. how long are you willing to wait and put up with the disappointment, blame, and chaos that comes from waiting for someone else to do something with THEIR lives to make YOURS better?
what actual concrete tangible STEPS has she taken? and i don't mean managing to stay off the sauce for 48 hours.
has she sought the help of a medical professional?
has she sought the help of a counselor or therapist?
has she sought the help of AA, the oldest recovery program for alcoholism?
has she signed up on any recovery based website and asked for help?
she's still drinking.
nothing has changed.
and there is no WE in this..........unless you mean her relationship with the bottle.
that could be a very long time, MrM. it could also be NEVER. how long are you willing to wait and put up with the disappointment, blame, and chaos that comes from waiting for someone else to do something with THEIR lives to make YOURS better?
what actual concrete tangible STEPS has she taken? and i don't mean managing to stay off the sauce for 48 hours.
has she sought the help of a medical professional?
has she sought the help of a counselor or therapist?
has she sought the help of AA, the oldest recovery program for alcoholism?
has she signed up on any recovery based website and asked for help?
she's still drinking.
nothing has changed.
and there is no WE in this..........unless you mean her relationship with the bottle.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 38
In order, the answer are:
yes
no
no
no
It was a shock to me she told her doctor, and her doctor has recommended professional help, but she's not one to go for assistance when she thinks she doesn't need it. She does talk like she wants to quit, but her actions are definitely not in sync with her words yet.
I don't know how long to wait, but I am trying to give this at least a fighting chance given her words. Recent life events have shaken her up and I think she's starting to see some things from my and others' perspective. Whether that is enough remains to be seen.
yes
no
no
no
It was a shock to me she told her doctor, and her doctor has recommended professional help, but she's not one to go for assistance when she thinks she doesn't need it. She does talk like she wants to quit, but her actions are definitely not in sync with her words yet.
I don't know how long to wait, but I am trying to give this at least a fighting chance given her words. Recent life events have shaken her up and I think she's starting to see some things from my and others' perspective. Whether that is enough remains to be seen.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I wanted to quit drinking for a few years before I did anything remotely significant in terms of actually DOING it. I remember I used to get up every day hoping I would have magically changed overnight so I wouldn't drink the way I did. Never happened--go figure. I had to get disgusted enough, and scared enough, and willing enough, to actually do something about it.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 216
Very profound there Lexie, very honest too - It's such a great picture of how you have to really WANT to do something to do it.
My ex was able to quit cigarettes, soda, and pills/drugs without looking back when she had enough of them. It's possible to give up anything if you want to do it fast enough. Much like your wife, she expresses desires to "cut back" or quit completely, and wants to find that path, but it can be quite elusive and a long wait (I waited for 10 years for things to get normal and eventually just couldn't wait any more).
I think anyone who comes here and posts like you do has the best intentions and deepest love for their significant other, so I do hope she starts to answer yes to those other questions above, sooner than later. The key for your own sanity is just to give up trying to make that happen yourself, she's the only one who can do it.
My ex was able to quit cigarettes, soda, and pills/drugs without looking back when she had enough of them. It's possible to give up anything if you want to do it fast enough. Much like your wife, she expresses desires to "cut back" or quit completely, and wants to find that path, but it can be quite elusive and a long wait (I waited for 10 years for things to get normal and eventually just couldn't wait any more).
I think anyone who comes here and posts like you do has the best intentions and deepest love for their significant other, so I do hope she starts to answer yes to those other questions above, sooner than later. The key for your own sanity is just to give up trying to make that happen yourself, she's the only one who can do it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 163
carolineo....we see alcohol as the problem....alcoholics see alcohol as the solution.
Two different planets.
If they were to see alcoholism as the problem (like we do)...they would have to quit drinking, altogether. This feels like an impossibility for alcoholics.
Their denial protects them from the truth.....
__________________
dandylion
My STBEXAW knows and admits she has a problem. She has even been to treatment 5 times. Has had periods of sobriety. Once it lasted 7 years. I think she truly would like to quit but her desire to drink still overpowers her desire to quit.
Two different planets.
If they were to see alcoholism as the problem (like we do)...they would have to quit drinking, altogether. This feels like an impossibility for alcoholics.
Their denial protects them from the truth.....
__________________
dandylion
My STBEXAW knows and admits she has a problem. She has even been to treatment 5 times. Has had periods of sobriety. Once it lasted 7 years. I think she truly would like to quit but her desire to drink still overpowers her desire to quit.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
A simple statement I heard in alanon:
The only thing that can drive her to drinking is her car.
The thing she must know, that you know, is that you didn't cause
it, can't control it, can't cure it. Obviously, if you could do any
of those things, __she wouldn't be drinking__ none of our loved
ones would be........
If she makes any comments about you being supportive, tell her
you are being supportive by going to alanon meetings. It really
is the most meaningful thing you can do for yourself, in which
you help her by getting yourself emotionally & spiritually healthy.
Sobriety & recovery will always be, as a grown adult with choices
and options, her decision.
The only thing that can drive her to drinking is her car.
The thing she must know, that you know, is that you didn't cause
it, can't control it, can't cure it. Obviously, if you could do any
of those things, __she wouldn't be drinking__ none of our loved
ones would be........
If she makes any comments about you being supportive, tell her
you are being supportive by going to alanon meetings. It really
is the most meaningful thing you can do for yourself, in which
you help her by getting yourself emotionally & spiritually healthy.
Sobriety & recovery will always be, as a grown adult with choices
and options, her decision.
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