FireSprite

Quack.

And we all know that couples counseling with an active addict is like brushing your teeth with oreos.... ineffective.

Of course, if you refuse then YOU'RE labelled as the stubborn one refusing to compromise. He offered - what more do you want?? (insert sarcasm)

Batten down the hatches 360 - I'll bet you're in for one heckuva storm! He's going to try everything he can to get you to engage, IMO.

Wisconsin

It's only going to get worse. He's going to really turn up the heat, and despite the impression he gave you last night, he is not going to go quietly. If I were in your shoes, I would get that eviction paperwork ready NOW, just in case. And be ready to file for a restraining order if he gets abusive, so you can get him out of the house sooner.

360startstoday

He is not currently drinking/using.... Been sober 4 months... BUT, denial and entire personality is still all there. He really needs counseling on his OWN. This isn't about fixing us as a couple, he needs to fix... HIMSELF. We cannot be with him the way he is. That's what he is not getting here.

I will not find him help. He wants help, he can seek it out for himself. I had a fleeting thought this morning, oh I will call so and so to get this and that rolling for him. I will not do that again. I am going to tell him exactly these things. This is not about fixing the us... we need to fix ourselves. Individually.

Refiner

I concur that you're in for a helluva storm. Please stay safe, 360. He's a lying, cheating, manipulating, alcoholic, rage-aholic abuser. Not sure if counseling would ever "fix" him. And it sure ain't MARRIAGE counseling that he needs. I suspect he may get drunk and turn on the abuse next. Stay safe!

360startstoday

When I stated in my update it could have went one of two ways.... Well it appears, we went one way to only backtrack and go the other way. Pretty predictable. I am going to call a counselor for myself here in a minute. I am going to do something this time, instead of just talking about it.

firebolt

Good for you for getting help for yourself.

My ex did the same thing (the first time i broke up with him.)

Flipped out, and a day later - oh I'll change, I'll be good everything will be different.

The 2nd time I left, the same thing. Hateful as I was leaving. Then came back all about quitting drinking. That time it lasted maybe 2 months.

When I found out if he was serious about getting himself some help or not was when I just stopped everything and finally said no. No feeding into his "needs." No to being with him. No to dating. Just no. That quickly led me to no contact...and guess what, he is still drinking (he wasn't serious about quitting), and I have PEACE!

amy55

Never go to marriage counseling with someone who is abusive. When looking for a therapist for yourself find someone who specializes in abuse. I would also recommend DV group counseling.

((((hugs))))

amy

dandylion

360....there is a common saying, in recovery circles....."If you want to "see" what an alcoholic is about...just tell them "no"........

There is another layer, to this, also...above the alcoholism...and, that is of the abuse.....
Abusers become more desperate when they feel that they are losing control over their victim. That is when they are most apt to become dangerous.....
Just keep this in mind, and have your plans well in hand.....
I suggest to not be confrontational or "in his face". There is no value in arguing or debating anything with him, at this point......
Try to use "I" statements, rather than "YOU" statements.....

I'm just saying.....

dandylion

amazingjoy

Hi 360...sorry I am late to this thread.

If you believe he is not drinking/using and hasn't for 4 months, then what do you think he has been hiding?

Also, just a shout out to you my friend for reaching out like this! You have gotten such great feedback from this group!

I know how much your faith means to you and how much your children/family means...TRUST in God. This is not something you can fix as you already know. Lay this down...all you can do is say "no more" and leave the rest to Him while you continue to work on you and your precious kiddos!

You can do this!

I also know how music moves you...

Here is one of my "mantra" songs from the 80's...I was admittedly a teenager during that time but this song still resonates with me :-)

It's called Lay it Down by White Heart...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5KPTLnXi_w

LoveMeNow

Wow! I swear they have a manual. These kind of texts and/or words always sucked me back in. My ex knew how to play on my hope and fears of abandonment. Nothing ever changed for long though. The addict voice always came calling and I was always the enemy. I wished I had waited, let him get counseling for a substantial amount of time before I ever jumped back in. Best advice I was given but took a while to finely grasp was "watch their actions, not their words."

P.s. My husband was not violent but still became someone I really didn't know anymore and that was scary enough.

Liveitwell

360-my ex was violent when he drank as well. Awful. And August 27th of 2015 was the day night i finally said NO MORE and called the police. Even after that, I still got sucked back in by the SAME exact words your husband is giving you. Please watch out-my ex has stalked, threatened, abused, etc-going on two years since we were separated and over a year since the divorce. These guys are angry and controlling-you're an object to them-to use-so just be careful....I don't want to say I can predict what he will do, but I think I can see exactly what's coming for you if you hold to your boundaries....which is THE RIGHT thing to do. It will get worse before it gets better-but it will get better. Trust me/it absolutely does and one morning you'll wake up and wonder why you wasted so much of your life on someone like him. God has you, friend. Trust in that.

360startstoday

I just love you AJ, thank you! I didn't know what else to do, so thought they could help! They are amazing aren't they! (I'm talking about you guys, but at least in front of you

I gave it to God. I have an appointment today at 5:00. How's that for a quick response???? Every little thing.... is gonna be alright. I so appreciate you all and your input and responses!

FeelingGreat

360, POV from a recovered A here. He's giving ground as you push, first he doesn't have a problem, then he talks about counselling once it looks like he'll have to leave. If he really saw his alcoholism as something he has to overcome for himself, he wouldn't need to be backed into a corner. Giving up drinking is hard, but once you're convinced it's what you need to do you own that decision.

The bit about him not drinking because he doesn't have any balls says it all. He sees himself as being forced and there's no future in that. Relapse is almost inevitable.

The ideal scenario would be him moving out, and achieving sobriety on his own, without pressure or threats. Then he could own the process, and who knows? it might even empower him. Plus it's much more likely to last.

Staying with you always symbolically gives you power over him and he's going to see that as being forced to be sober. Once I made up my mind to become sober I didn't have any fallback on doing it for someone else (deprivation); I had made the choice as a positive thing.

360startstoday

Hey all!

Took a long break from SR. I do very much appreciate all you guys had to say. All the truth and your ability to tell the future!!

He did not leave.... won't leave. IS drinking again.... starting to disappear and do weird crap again. Withdrawn from the kids even. Definitely hiding things. Not sure the entirety of what he is hiding, I believe its more than drinking though. Trying to make the kids feel sorry for him. It is miserable. I haven't said a word to him in a week. No reason to.... Have nothing more to say.

You were all right, seems you usually are.

Thank you all again. Thought I'd say HEY HI!

LexieCat

So have you talked with a counselor? A domestic violence advocate? A lawyer?

What are you doing to stay safe?

360startstoday

Yeah I have an attorney. She is my best friend so that is helpful. She knows entire history. No plan of action yet.

Yes on the counselor too. But Ive seen someone through my church. I think I need to go elsewhere so there is no bias. I sense there is.

Finances are safe, assets are all safe. I owned everything including home before. At this time I'm not concerned about physical safety. That may be dumb.

I think I've stopped questioning what I've done wrong. I've stopped trying to fix it. I've stopped fighting it. I don't tell him what he can't do. I'm working on me and have realized, unfortunately, that my ideas of him being a leader in our home are just my ideas, and I must lead for this to go correctly. It's been easier on my mind just realizing.

Side note. The Quacker threads are making my day!