jenniferlynne76

Please know I take your comments as they're intended: to help and not to be "mean."

I am definitely not looking for a "swan song." Nor am I looking for apologies or explanations. I know why he does what he does when he does it. He's an alcoholic. I just want the opportunity to respectfully tell him that I'm choosing to take care of myself at this juncture in time and that to do so, I am removing myself from our relationship which is no longer working for me or making me happy. I care for him and wish him the best but I have to focus on me and MY recovery. That's it.

Kata

I understand how you feel. Believe me I do! However, if you ABF is anything like my XABF was, I fear you won't get the opportunity to "break up your way".

Mine was very good a picking a fight or finding an excuse to be a no show when a discussion was schedule. It really was as if he had a sixth sense about it.

If not, it's like he didn't hear what I was saying. He would then derail the conversation and and steer it towards what could be done. Once he had left, I would be confused has to what had happened and realize that even though I was aware of all his manipulative techniques, he would have once again manipulated me into giving him another "one last chance". I've said it often, I am naive and trusting to a fault. But I'm far from being stupid! Yet, every time he would do that, I would feel like the stupidest woman on earth.

In the end, I didn't do it in the respectful manner I wanted to. It was done over the phone, in a very classless way with me yelling something like " what you have been doing to me has a name, it's called verbal abuse and I won't take it anymore. I don't care if all you want is to make me happy and hug me, you will never touch me again".

Let's just say it wasn't my classiest break up.

Since you've already set up a meeting with him and plan to discuss things with him on Wednesday, I suggest you try it. Maybe you'll have more luck than me. If he doesn't show, or I you leave the meeting having agreed to give him another "one last chance", then I suggest you go the email way. Having relectuantly aggreed to give him another chance doesn't mean you can't change your mind 1 hour later!

So, if you can't say what you need to say on Wednesday, just send him an email telling him all you want to tell him. And then, cut all contact.

FireSprite

I'd write the letter but only for the cathartic affect it would give me to get all of that OUT. I wouldn't give it to him though.

I also wouldn't engage with an active alcoholic in any conversation while holding any expectations. Something like that can ONLY be about you giving yourself closure, knowing you said what YOU needed to say.... not about what they hear, how they interpret, what they do or don't do to follow up with it all. They can't HEAR us over the addictive voice in their heads, it's that simple.

Praying

Something that caught my eye in your post--not meant to be negative, but to stir your thoughts--you've recently pulled away from him, limited communication somewhat, and weren't planning on seeing him Monday night...then came out of therapy wanting to talk to him. In FIVE minutes you called once, texted, and called again, irritated that he was ignoring you. He could have been in the bathroom or doing anything in that time. It doesn't sound like you were in a rational or fair state of mind. You set him up for a failure before he even answered the phone.

Your need to communicate with him right now feels like more than wanting to end it--I think you want something more...and I'm not sure you're actually done with him.

Just saying that's what it feels like from here. Maybe sit quietly and think about what your motivation is and what your desired outcome looks like.

And remember that I'm on your side!

jenniferlynne76

That's *exactly* what I plan to do, Kata. I hope he will come straight to my place from work, which means he will be sober and we can have the full blown conversation of the talk we started this morning. If not, my email is ready to go and I am at peace with it. Thank you, my friend!

jenniferlynne76

I hear you, FireSprite. I'm only planning to use the letter if I don't get the opportunity to do what needs to be done/said on Wednesday.

And this is very much what you said: about me knowing I did all *I* needed to do, say, etc. because the addictive voice is always going to be louder in his ears than I am.

jenniferlynne76

I definitely see your perspective in reading it again! So thank you for bringing it up. In my mind, I'd told him I'd call as soon as I left my therapy appt and what time that would be. And, honestly, last Monday was the first time he hadn't responded to me when he asked me to call (because, he says, he knew he'd have to tell me that he drank and, therefore, couldn't come over). So I was definitely thinking "here we go again!" And I started getting annoyed. And thus kept pushing the buttons... I can own that.

The thing is, we've all heard these stories before, haven't we? Even the conversation I had with him this morning was like hitting rewind and play...(over and over again). Without me even prompting him, I heard the standard lines: I know I need help. I'm unhappy and my head is a mess. The drinking is getting worse again (though this time it was because he has too much time on his hands to think about all of the things in his life that are stressing him out and I'm no longer around as much to distract him. Last time it was just because he didn't see enough of me anymore.)

I heard "I want to get better and be with you," again, too. But it's never, "I'm drinking too much and I want to get help, so I'm going to 'fill in the blank with a solution.'" He's great at identifying his behaviors. He's incapable of and/or doesn't want to change them.

Just as he's great at recognizing the stress, again, unprompted, that being around him causes me. He'll say it isn't fair to me and that I deserve better, etc.
But they're all just words, aren't they?

This isn't his first rodeo. He was married for 13 years and put his wife, kids, parents and friends through hell. He's been through rehab and court ordered therapy. He's no idiot. In fact he knows exactly what he's doing. It's all part of the manipulation, isn't it?

JD

It's definitely manipulation. Until he shows some action, not the words, that he wants to quit it's manipulation.

Wisconsin

Just words? Yes. Manipulation? Yes. He may mean the words very sincerely when he says them. My STBXAH means it when he says he hates himself, and when he says he wants to be a better person. But the fact of the matter is that your ABF's drinking and my STBXAH's drinking is getting worse because they is choosing to drink. Not because he doesn't see you enough, and not because he has too much time on his hands. Heck, even if he WERE to say "I want to get better and here's what I'm going to do...," well, those are STILL just words. I think most people here are of the opinion that when an active alcoholic says ANYTHING, the best approach is to be incredibly skeptical unless and until there is a pattern of behavior and actions to back up the words.

There's an old saying here that we leave when the pain of staying becomes greater than the pain of leaving. That's true for the addict, too. They continue to use and abuse their drug of choice until the pain of continuing to use becomes greater than the pain of quitting. Some say that alcoholism ends in jail, recovery, or death. Alcoholism may not be the causative factor in an alcoholic's death, but the alcoholism itself doesn't stop until the alcoholic chooses recovery, goes to jail, or dies. I think in practice that sentiment is a little oversimplified, but I very much agree with the principle that underlies it--stuff just gets worse absent a meaningful recovery and sobriety program.

And the same is true for me, as a raging co-dependent in my relationship with STBXAH. It got to the point where my co-dependency was going to end only when I died, when I sought recovery and help, or when I checked myself into a mental hospital. I chose recovery and help.

jenniferlynne76

Agree 100%. And he's even said before that he's not ready to quit. Knows he should... But isn't ready, doesn't want to, blah, blah, blah...

bluelily

Jennifer,
I second everything Kata said, I found my XABF to be exactly as she described hers. And the thing that hurts most for me at this moment is the way we finally broke up - I was probably expecting something more constructive, in the sense you talk about it, an opportunity to assert my own needs and somehow end the relationship with lessons learned and hopes for the future.
Also, I think underneath this all I had some hope that I could influence him to see his destructiveness and perhaps begin to embark on recovery.

However, I found it was like we were both talking a completely different language, there was just no way to get through to him. It was very painful and frustrating to realize he did not care one iota about my feelings, my experience with him. It was very much like when you are a kid and you have a quarrel on the playground and the other kid has his hands on his ears and is yelling La la la I can´t hear you! while you´re speaking.

His view of things was: You used to like how I was, now you don´t, so let´s put an end to this.
All the things I wanted to say bounced off him.
I also fell in the humilliating trap of yelling and saying mean things just to get my point through (thinking back on some comments XABF made about other breakups he had in the past, all his former gfs and wife ended up yelling or throwing things at him and acting undignified).

So in the end I was left with the same feeling I had while being with him, that I had absolutely no importance, that it didn´t matter what I wanted/felt, everything was about him. It would´ve been great to walk away with the feeling that at least I got to say what I wanted, that somehow I asserted myself, but it was worse than not having said anything at all and leave him wondering.

I was adviced on this forum to say as little as posible - see my previous thread How do you breakup with an alcoholic - I think that saying the least possible is the most healthy thing to do for yourself. Even just sending a text would do! There is nothing like the impotence of not being heard, it drives you crazy in the end.

jenniferlynne76

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times, YES! I agree with *everything* you wrote here. And I even said to STBXABF today that I got help because I knew if I didn't I was going to go crazy. And I meant it. When I sought out my counselor I was on the verge of a complete and total mental breakdown. So I hear *every* word you're saying Wisconsin.

jenniferlynne76

I actually did read through that thread, bluelily! (Probably doesn't surprise you to hear that under the present circumstances!)

I think, no matter how much we all realize our walking away isn't going to change anything for the 99.9% of alcoholics out there, there's still a *tiny* bit of hope we all cling to in hopes that it will make a difference to someone. As long as we're not fixated on that hope (given the *enormous* unlikelihood of it happening) I'd like to think that's just the good in us shining through. (And yeah, that may be a little bit Pollyanna.)

I don't know what will happen when I talk to him ... assuming I do get to talk to him ... tomorrow, or whenever it happens. I suppose I could do it over the phone, too. The trouble is, mornings are the only time I'm guaranteed to get him calm and sober and I'm at work those days too. (I start three hours before him, so very early...) I almost felt like I could've done it today. And maybe, in retrospect, I just should've seized the opportunity and done it.

hopeful4

Sending you lots of patience and strength during this time. You are doing the right thing, and will have happiness in your future by taking care of You!

Bekindalways

Heya JL, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what folks seem to be saying here.

You seem to have found your next right action and are doing what it takes to make it happen. Of course you can't control what he does but you come across to me as very determined to do what needs to be done to get off the crazy train headed for Chaosville.

Hope it goes well and so sorry this latest acquisition of wisdom has been paid for in personal pain but such is life.

jenniferlynne76

Thank you, hopeful4!

jenniferlynne76

Thank you you much for that. Your words really mean a lot to me, Bekind.

atalose

Ok, so what happens when you have your talk or send your letter or email and his response is……

I love you and I don’t want to lose you. I’ll do everything it takes to keep us together. I’ll go for help, I’ll get counseling, I’ll go to meetings…….

Then what’s your next right move?

teatreeoil007

What I am getting from this is that you have a need for closure...and I think you are smart to be working through this with your counselor. Just be prepared (and I only say this because of my own lessons) is that any contact with him may just open up more doors for whatever. Old feelings may resurface and rekindle. But if inside yourself you are very SURE that it is over and you have no desire but to be set free, only you can know for sure what you can best live with. There is a tendency in most all of us to want to tie things up in a package so to speak and that is in a way a form of feeling we have some control over how things go; over how we need it to go. It's possible the wounds from this relationship are still too fresh and raw to go into a face to face interaction and come out with good feelings of resolution. Just something to think about. I totally understand what it is like to need closure...

teatreeoil007

Perhaps attempts at closure are also attempts to heal. Wounds heal from the inside out. So, the most important 'work' going on here Jennifer is the healing and growth that is taking place inside of you. Healing takes time, so give yourself plenty of time to truly get over this relationship.