FireSprite

I'm not sure I'd call him emotionally devoid so much as selfish & unconcerned about anything but his own hidden intentions. I think he's baby-stepping out of the marriage in a way that makes it super simple & easy for him by not rocking the boat too much on his way out.

RAH used to be a master of this - fully acting out his subconscious intentions & plans without acknowledging, even to himself, that he was doing it. Since he never really consciously thought of it that way or planned it intentionally to go that way he was giving himself a pass every time I got upset - it was me, not him. He didn't mean it/was joking/that wasn't his intention. But if you asked him, then what WAS your intention?... he'd shrug... idk? Hadn't really thought about it. Really? I'm calling:


You act with no thought, no intentions, always? You never have a plan, are only ever capable of being in THIS moment? Am I to believe you put more thought into a fishing trip than your life, business, marriage, kid? You have no conscious thoughts or plans when we talk "responsibilities" but can go on & on & on about anything else? No. That's a choice, not an incapacity.

Amy, I think on a core level he realizes that he NEEDS you, for the business to run smoothly if nothing else. You are the worrier, the I dotter, the T crosser..... I'll bet anything that you're the one keeping the business in compliance with tax filings, legal matters, etc. You are the Bad Guy & he's the life of the party that everyone wants to have around for fun times. Maybe he even needs you in a way that you don't need him & is afraid you're going to figure that out? He can't stay Good Cop 100% of the time unless you play the opposite role & he is invested in keeping you there. It's a thought worth examining, not saying this is 100% accurate. ((((Hugs))))

FindingAmy

Firesprite, do you live in my house? That is EXACTLY what went on here for 26 years! And yes, I take care of everything. Once my daughter called and needed money or something while at college and she couldn't get in touch with me so she last resorted and called her father who didn't even know what our passwords were for the bank or which account to use or anything. He was useless. I do all of the bookkeeping, the legal work, everything for the business. He just schmoozes the clients and makes excuses and apologies all day long.

That whole thing about intentions just really started opening my eyes as I've been working on my own recovery. I've heard, "whats the big deal", "that wasn't my intention", "i'd never intentionally do that', "you're overreacting, let it go, it's no biggie" for our entire marriage, and spent 26 years wondering if I was crazy. While I'm sure I eventually did become crazy, I realize for sure it was that passive-aggressive behavior and never taking responsibility for ANYTHING that sent me into a whole other stratosphere of crazy.

One of you angels on here once said to say to him "it's not your intentions we are talking about, it's your actions". and that hit the nail on the head. His actions sure do speak louder than his words. They speak loud and clear.

And you are so right. It's always been Good Cop/Bad Cop and I obviously was always Bad. But that is in my power to change. And I am not going to be manipulated anymore into thinking that it's me. I have value and worth and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and love. And he is obviously incapable of any of those things and I deserve more.

I will do as you all say and start taking care of me. I have always been very healthy but over the past couple of months it sort of got derailed. I look in the mirror with horror like Who is THAT? My mother?! Ugh. I am going to start cleaning out my diet again and get back on to the cardio and buy myself some new clothes.

Yes, Firesprite, it was 100% accurate. And Shooting Star I am now free to move around the country! And live MY life. Thanks to all of you for the reminder to focus on me.

One other great things you said to me SparkleKitty, was that he can't abandon me if he was never there. I have been thinking that all day long. It is so true. He was never there, in any way. So he left before he ever he even arrived. That is so liberating for me. I was not left. I was freed of his BS!

It's my turn.

FindingAmy

It's seriously unbelievable. I am usually up around 7 am, but I haven't been sleeping well and didn't have to work until late today and was looking forward to a couple extra hours of sleep. At 7 am my doorbell rings! It's my STBAXH. He had to pick up some boxes for work which I left outside. He rang the doorbell because he needed to use the printer. I was obviously sleeping. No "I'm sorry" nothing. Just oh, thought you'd be up and walked in to use the printer. Of course he started with the "it wasn't my intention...". And I said, it's not your intentions, it's your actions. You would not do this to ANYONE else. It is rude and disrespectful and do NOT come to this house without calling or emailing and me confirming it. He said I emailed you, but you didn't answer. I checked my emails, he emailed me at 5 am!

Passive aggressive, rude, disrespectful, selfish and on and on and on.

Every day he makes it easier and easier to accept the separation and confirming the ass I knew he always was. Even if he plays the nice guy card to everyone else. I know the truth.

Refiner

Ahhhh geeze, what a d*ckhead! Guess you won't be able to count on ANY respect of boundaries. Your other post sounds like your eyes are now wide open and you know what he's all about. How do you plan to extract yourself from the business? Can you find a job elsewhere doing the books then make him buy you out? Sounds like you're in the catbird seat, actually!

FeelingGreat

Amy, get your hair done, and a facial if you feel like it. Nothing cheers as well as nice hair, unless its a smart outfit or new shoes.

I don't think his attitude is because he's in recovery, I just think he's a user.

redatlanta

Take Shooting Stars advice - get off the multi use computer and send him an email that he needs to buy his own machines etc. For Christ's sake he can buy a printer for $50.

Guy is living in on another plane of reality - one in which he is never inconvenienced, or God forbid, have to take care of something himself.

Hawkeye13

He needs his own printer and computer and you need yours.
End of story.

He needs to stay away from you and your house,
and you need to not look at his emails, even in passing.

Maybe you should be proactive and the one who files first?
That would shock his azz--he thinks he's calling all the shots here--

FireSprite

I'm still betting that he outs himself, they'll all see what you see eventually - it'll just take some time. What do they call that - the Long Con? Just like you are learning a lot so will everyone else around him.... especially the more you keep handing his own crap back to him. The trick for you is to stay patient, stay uninvolved & let it all unfold naturally.

At the time of our implosion I wanted to scream at everyone around me, don't you see? can't you tell? I was so incensed that he was so horrid to me & others acted like HE was the injured party, my own freaking mother included! I quickly found it only accomplished one thing - making me look exactly as crazy as he'd been accusing me of. (and truthfully, I even started to feel crazy... until I found SR.) So I stopped having any reaction even if it burned like hot fire to hold it inside. Sometimes I would just go throw rocks into the canal or break old glasses to vent that huge, physical anger. It was BIG, I am Sicilian/German/Irish so I go from a little angry to Nuclear pretty quickly. I'm working on it....

After a while people could see what I wasn't able to explain - I was the healthy acting, talking, living one & he was the one spinning in circles, compartmentalizing, missing deadlines & skipping responsibilities. Without me buffering his fall people started to see him for who he really was & more than one of his friends did come to me to apologize for not seeing/accepting it sooner. But that was all years into the process, I couldn't have stood around waiting for the validation & not continued my own recovery efforts.... that would have really hurt/delayed me. And again, being honest, if I had helped him to always appear responsible & together then could I really blame others for having that impression?

And the funny part was that by then, I didn't need their apologies (as nice as they were to hear) because I had long reconciled that what they thought of it all didn't matter to me one bit. None of them were standing there facing all of my challenges. None of them were figuring out how to single-parent with a 5-yr old.

I'd be keeping notes on anything that impacts the business too, as that has a direct impact on your long-term income & you have a vested interest in it as a major shareholder. Have you considered a formal separation agreement of some sort? You could really use some official boundaries about things like him dropping into the house like that & I know legally in some places he has the right if his name is on the title. I'd get that part squared away & change the locks as fast as possible.

I'm with hawkeye on this one - it may be time to start taking control of this & preemptively call a few of the important shots. IF/when you're ready, that is. ((((Hugs))))

FindingAmy

Firesprite we obviously had extremely similar situations. This line:

"At the time of our implosion I wanted to scream at everyone around me, don't you see? can't you tell? I was so incensed that he was so horrid to me & others acted like HE was the injured party, my own freaking mother included! I quickly found it only accomplished one thing - making me look exactly as crazy as he'd been accusing me of. (and truthfully, I even started to feel crazy, until I found SR)"

was exactly how I felt for years. And even more so now. But nobody will ever see it because he maintains very surfacey relationships with everyone and keeps distance, so his screw ups with people occur, but not often enough to do that much harm because he doesn't have any real relationships, if that makes sense. The only person that "gets it" is my daughter. And my people because they hear through me what he does. I do believe the clients will eventually get tired of his apologies and excuses though and move on. But who knows. Most people in our life, besides my people, I'm sure are like "I don't blame him for leaving her, she was a b*tch" because nobody saw his behavior to me. When I used to tell people he'd yell, they'd be like, "no way, he's so calm and laid back". It was infuriating. But whatever. I can't worry about what other people think of him. I do wish my son could see it, but that's a story for another thread.

I started taking notes on the business. I really would like for him to buy me out, but that leaves me trying to figure out what to do with my life for money. I honestly don't know where to begin. I got married as soon as I graduated college and never started a career. I never even got to know "me" as me, just me as "married me". I look in the ads and nothing interests me for work. I really don't know how to start.

I told him he had to get his own printer, which he did. He has a computer, but the computer in my house is our work computer. So he logs on to it at night to work. That's where I see the emails. I have to stop looking. That is on me. I guess I have to question why I look at his emails in the first place. I used to look to make sure nothing got missed at work. Catching stuff before it fell through the cracks. Now i think it's just like I'm looking for something to torture myself with. I've got to stop.

LexieCat

I think you are on the right track with this. If you are able to read "his" stuff on there, he is equally able to read "your" stuff on there.

I work for a very small organization and we have people who work remotely in several locations. We use DropBox and shared calendars and so forth to coordinate what we are all doing. It's fairly simple, and not that expensive, to set something like that up. You could set up a shared email account used strictly for business, and a separate email account for anything personal (always a good idea anyway--just ask Hillary Clinton).

But it's totally impracticable for you to have the only "business computer" that he has to come over to your house to use.

Electronics are on sale during the holiday season. I'd suggest buying another computer for yourself, take anything personal off the "business" computer, and whichever one of you has primary responsibility for day-to-day operations should keep the "business" computer, and other one can log onto email or access business documents remotely. Seems like it would be a good investment in your own peaceful life.

schnappi99

Hi FA, the description of his actions is right up my alley- I've done just that kind of thing towards my wife. In my case some of it was due to fear- fear of loss (I'm getting older etc), and I would build up a dialog entirely in my head building a rationale for my actions by making her the bad guy. I would not share that dialog, not having the courage to tell anyone else for fear of being shown how I was mistaken or caused the trouble- particularly by my wife. In my case it was all about obsessing over how I felt like I should be being treated; and in my own mind the biggest issue was how my wife was treating me.

I'd be very surprised if his 4th/5th step is a serious effort. By the time I got to that stage I found judgement and self-righteousness intolerable and I was making a beginning of acting differently. Not that I could turn it off sometimes my monkey brain would come up with all kinds of crazy, many times my internal dialog was more like a repetition of "let it go let it go let it go".

But I'm not surprised you are the focus of his rudeness, in my mind if she would just start acting better then I would be feeling better. In general I'd expect the relationships he's seeking (and I bet he is seeking them) will be notably centered on his own gratification.

I think arranging things so you are not subject to him showing up or doing anything would be preferable. Demonstrating your own recovery is perhaps the best response.

I would expect to your son it looks like your husband is "living the dream" and its unlikely an argument will get him to change his mind, tears or not. There may be a lot of buried emotional pain in there. Putting your son in a position of veto power gives him an easy method of "payback", I'd consider making your plans, invite him and if he says no then proceed without him. That may mean things not looking family-like for a while, but more will be revealed I'm sure.

LexieCat

Oh, and as far as what to do with your life for money, sounds to me like you've acquired quite a lot of skills helping to operate a small business. I don't know what kind of business it is (and you certainly don't have to share it), but I'd be willing to bet there are other similar businesses out there that could use your skills. Even if they aren't in the same field. Instead of torturing yourself with details about the business you're leaving, spend some time creating a skills-based resume with details about what you did for the business.

Your first "outside" job doesn't have to be perfect--think about your priorities. Right now, it's probably steady income and good benefits. It doesn't have to be a terrific job, nor does it have to be a "career path" job. If you don't have to worry about money, you can take the time to give some real thought about what you DO want to do as a career. And then you can start laying the groundwork to get there.

One step at a time. You don't have to figure out your whole life this minute. Think about what your most important first steps might be and focus on those.

FindingAmy

Schnappi99, thank you for the perspective from the other side. He has told me time and time again he has a ton of anger and resentment towards me. He said it took him a few weeks to do step 4 and 5 but he's past them now. Which showed me he really isn't. But I know I can't get wrapped up in his recovery, only my own. It's just frustrating. I've got to let go and let God and just have faith. I know that. It's just really hard. I'm trying.

And I am going to make plans and invite my son. And maybe he will come. Maybe he won't. I need to work in showing him that I'm strong and I'm okay and I like me. Perhaps not so true at the moment but maybe I'll fake it till I make it.

I so appreciate your perspective. It was helpful.

FindingAmy

LexieCat, I do have a separate computer with all of my personal stuff that he doesn't have access to. The one he uses remotely only has work stuff on it but he sends personal emails. I need to tell him to set up a personal email account that is not on the work computer only his home computer. That way I don't need to see his nonsense. I'll do that today.

As far as a resume that's a good idea. For 25 years I was a graphic designer but my tech skills are very behind as far as new programs. My daughter keeps telling me I can learn it all really quickly. I'm not sure I want to sit behind a computer any more. As far as the biz I own with my STBX I do all the legal and financial. I am good at it but I've taught it all to myself over the past ten years. I don't think I'd like to do the financial stuff for someone else. I did it because we had no choice.

But I have to remember what you said. I just have to get out there. The first job doesn't have to be my forever job. I'm going to work on my resume tonight. And yes, I do have to work.

And I need to remember baby steps. I always tend to look at the finish line as one big leap to get there. I need to work on slowing down and taking smaller steps. I have to start looking at how I do things differently. Thank you.

LexieCat

Great! I'd also suggest spending some time creating a good LinkedIn profile, if you don't already have one. It's free, and it's something employers like to see. Make yourself look good! Just as an aside, you are very articulate and express yourself very well. I think you could write an AWESOME profile.

schnappi99

+1 on not trying to 2nd guess his recovery. My sponsor prefers the family to be exhibited to show what the actual recovery looks like rather than the just believing the story. Not that I bring them to lots of meetings etc but I did my 5th step at home with him. I did the actual 5th step work with him alone but beforehand he could see all 3 of us interact. Wife and daughter came with me to the joint AA/Alanon cookout over last summer, that sort of thing.

When my wife would try to reach out I would pull away (hurt her as payback)- the rationale being if she's reaching out then I'm right- I would share none of this with her. Its quite poisonous... There was no win for her, my game was to get what I wanted even if I used nicer language at the time in my own head. I sure had a lot of restless/irritable/discontent and I was using how I felt about our relationship as the fix- booze never did it for me. So if I wasn't feeling good and she wasn't giving me the fix then I would start with the demanding, then the distance etc..

I got some of this from my father, I innovated much of it on my own. Could be some similar things operating wrt your son. I believe this kind of behavioral trait is progressive, it certainly was for me; and mine came complete with a bottom etc. Recovery feels a <lot> better.