Dimndaruf

I could use some words of encouragement today or perhaps some direction/advice. I'm so grateful for my new SR family, I'm happy to have you all!
I have these days where I'm feeling great-eating & sleeping well, working out, and my schedule and vibe seem to be just flowing. On the other hand, I have days like today where I'm bursting at the seams with anger and fear, last night I tossed and turned for hours and I couldn't turn my thoughts off. My AH is 2 months sober and I'm happy about that but what I think I'm UNHAPPY about is the victim role that he's still playing, its driving me nuts. We're in a very weird place right now, we're not really "together" although we're still married. He's over almost every day helping me with the kids (bath time, homework, etc.) and he ends up spending the night most nights, we still have sex, hug and cuddle, etc. We talk about working on the marriage again but I have my reservations, when I think back to all the stress and worry that it caused me, all the missed sleep, meals, days of work, the lying, the manipulation, and the emotional abuse I get terrified and immediately DO NOT WANT TO ENTERTAIN THOSE THOUGHTS!! And that's MY problem, I know this sounds crazy and perhaps selfish but I'm kinda happy feeling like we're dating, there's not too much pressure. I'm scared to give him my heart again because of the trauma that I've experienced in the past.
Talking about my trauma and getting him to understand what I've been through might help me to get somewhat passed this but it's so difficult having these discussions with him, for instance he may see that something is bothering me and ask me what's wrong and when I tell him that I have a form of ptsd and its really affecting me moving forward he'll say "yeah, well I have a lot of things that I'm angry about or that you did to me too and if I dwell on them it won't do us any good". WHAT?? Me having trauma and you dealing with my reactions to the consequences of poor decisions that YOU made are totally different. The vibe immediately changes and I realize we'll only end up arguing if I keep talking about my feelings. Again, I feel like an emotional prisoner so I just stuff it!!
I've started seeing a new therapist that specializes in A and marriage/separation as well. AH hasn't made it there yet (procrastinating, as usual) and I'm not forcing him either, I want him to do it on his own. Here he goes again with his ego...he suggested we try counseling when I suggested divorce (again, we've done counseling in the past) a little while ago and I declined for a few reasons. I thought he was just trying to do it for ME (not himself) and I was so traumatized that I didn't even want to (or didn't know how to) look back. When I later asked him to go-not to work things out but just to see if divorce WAS the best option and to get us both on the same page in terms of communication, even if we weren't going to be together he got mad and said "I just asked you this a few weeks ago and you said no", "I'm tired of you coming and going when YOU want to" and "I'm declining on the counseling for now". WOW the nerve!
For a few weeks now he keeps making vague mention of going but still has not picked up the phone to make the appt. I don't get it. His perception of things is that I treat HIM like a yo-yo and he constantly says that he's angry that I have the power to make the decision of whether we're together or not. Why doesn't he understand that he gave me that power when he started threatening and endangering the lives of me and our children, toying with my mental stability, causing me to miss work or be late, etc? I don't enjoy having this "power" that he calls it, I don't like being the one to say if I don't leave something bad is going to happen to me or my kids. Why doesn't he see that? He's angry about me making decisions to protect myself, my children, my finances, etc....so in turn he acts like a d*ick because he's angry about me choosing to stay or go in our relationship.
I'm hurting and sooooooo angry right now. I feel like he should be happy that even 2% of me wants to still be with him, he should be kissing my feet and doing every thing he can to hold on to me. Somehow he flips in on me and he's the victim because I wanted to move on and see other people, because of whatever little things I did that upset him....he shouldn't be the only one proving himself here.....HE TOO IS A VICTIM AND I SHOULD ALSO HAVE TO PROVE MYSELF TO HIM!!

I cannot understand it!!

chicory

Good morning, Dimndaruf.

I can relate to your feelings, and anger, and frustration. Its not easy.

Its not easy to quit drinking. I am sure its one of the hardest things he may ever do. And your position is no doubt just as difficult. emotions, memories, fears, resentments.
Is there an alanon meeting nearby, where you could find face to face support, and share your fears, and feelings? SR is wonderful, but I would think that a meeting, just for you, would be helpful right now.

I wish you the best... its gotta be so hard.

dandylion

Dimndaruf.......early recovery is often a shock to those who thought...."if he would just stop drinking, everything else would be o.k."
Many report that it turned out to be worse than the original drinking (for themselves).
Just putting down the bottle is only the first step in recovery for the alcoholic....and it IS a necessary step.....but the THINKING is just as important as the drinking. It will take him another year or two of working his program diligently to change thinking, attitudes, and then behaviors.......

I believe what you want is normal....to be seen and heard.....and to know that your feelings matter.....If you are like me....you would like to have evidence that he is truly sorry for the pain that he caused you.....that he "gets" it......
Otherwise, you can't feel safe in the relationship....safe to trust him again.....
I think all of this is normal.

You will make your own decisions, of course....and you will ultimately do what you want to do......but, for what it is worth.....I think that detaching and taking some more distance for yourself would be in your best interest, right now.
Let him work his recovery.....and you take the time to work your program.....

I would suggest that you go to alanon and/or go to individual therapy, right now.
marriage counseling may be a bit premature......

It sounds like he is getting what he wants.....still has his family and still getting the sexual benefits.....

dandylion

***one more important point......we can't wait for someone else to give us "our turn"......we have to take it......

DoubleDragons

I got sober two years ago and I am a recovering codependent. In both cases, my downfall that brings me to the "brink of crazy, with obsessive thoughts and overwhelming feelings" is when I future trip. One day at a time. Just for today, I do my best in all of my recovery. When someone or something triggers me, I try to get to my third step prayer, which is the one that tells your HP to take over the wheel. I then try to busy myself and my mind with tasks that can be done in the here and now.

Refiner

This man does not sound like he's in recovery. Is he working a program of any kind? Sounds like he is projecting himself onto you and is being manipulative. Sounds like all he's done is put down the bottle. You owe it to yourself to work your own program and let him work his (if he's even working one). Do you want to have sex with him or do you feel obligated to?

FireSprite

*Just my opinions* but, I wouldn't be in a hurry to discuss anything with him that I don't understand myself - he's NOT your therapist & can't help you heal through this. I love that saying, "the people that hurt us won't heal us" because it's SO true in every aspect of recovery..... recovery is an INSIDE job.

When this happened with us, I said, "I feel crappy"........... and He heard, "I feel crappy & it's YOUR fault." and immediately started defense-mode with blameshifting & minimizing my feelings. Because in that moment HE felt uncomfortable & was doing everything he could to make HIMSELF feel better. He wasn't able to NOT take every single thing in my head personally. He inserted words I never said, he interpreted things I never meant, it created more & more & more arguments about stuff that was so far beside the point that I needed a map to get back to the starting place.

He didn't want to patiently sit while I sifted through what-if's & details, he wanted me to spit it out clearly..... but I couldn't explain what I didn't understand! So I'd get angry..... round & round we go.

It is important to understand here - in early recovery he. was. not. capable. of. this. In a way it was like going to the hardware store for bread but going in through the back door & expecting that to change the outcome.

And see, it all became about him. I needed it to be about ME. I left these interactions more & more disgruntled & unsure of any future for us as a couple because he couldn't even slow down long enough to HEAR me. ..... and what I was "hearing" from him was that my recovery was less important than his. It became competitive in the most ridiculous sense.

One word of caution from me - watch out for unreasonable expectations like this:

I TOTALLY understand what you're feeling but this kind of martyring is a really big Codie Red Flag to me. It's anger speaking, "LOOK what I have suffered for you, you should X,Y,Z for me!" If 2% of you wants to still be with him then isn't what's going on with the other 98% way more important than whatever his reaction is?

I would go to therapy for me & when I knew what I wanted & why, I'd worry about seeing a therapist together. Him offering to go in the first place sounds like a bunch of quacking, honestly.

Dimndaruf

Thank you so much for your support

I do attend Al-Anon when I can. My schedule is just so hectic between the kids (3 and 6), dinner, homework, etc. He comes over almost everyday but HIS MEETINGS come first and they're always at 7, 7;30 or 8. Dinner time is usually around 7 and I put my son in bed around 8. I have to work around his AA meetings and the kid's needs.

Dimndaruf

Yes, that's exactly what my heart needs....to feel understood and safe in the relationship, for myself and the kids.

He's actually not getting everything that he wants...sex, yes but he wants to be a family and wants me to be completed committed to him which I cannot do (don't know how to) right now. He makes little remarks about me having my cake and eating it too but that's not what I want. I want to be with him and be a family again but my ptsd won't let me open up again. At least not until I feel he knows what this ordeal has done to me, until he knows that I'm not person that his disease has made me into.

Sheesh, a year or 2 for him to change....OMG

Thanks so much for your understanding, kind words and support.

Dimndaruf

He goes to AA meetings almost everyday and he has a sponsor.

I don't feel obligated to have sex with him. When he's "active" I'm completely turned off and he knows this as I've told him multiple times and my body language reinforces it! He doesn't force himself on me or try to coerce me. When he's sober I'm soooooo attracted to him, our chemistry is amazing and I love having sex with him.

Dimndaruf

Thanks for that....never looked at that way. Definitely something to think about.

atalose

What's different today then it was when you were "together"?

LexieCat

Seems to me like the "sleepovers" are muddling up the issues. At this point, given that you are ALREADY SEPARATED (for good reason), it might be best to ACT like you're separated.

You've mentioned before you have this sense of urgency to fish or cut bait in this relationship. Recovery doesn't happen that fast--for either one of you. It's a slow process with a lot of ups and downs.

Yes, it would always be nice to know how things are going to turn out. Unfortunately, none of us has a crystal ball. He might stay sober and build a good recovery for himself and still not be the way you want him to be. Or you might keep carrying so much resentment and anger that he doesn't want to be married to you anymore. Or you might simply grow apart. The one thing I can pretty much guarantee is that recovery for both of you will be a slow process. Rushing things doesn't help it happen any sooner. It takes however long it takes.

So my suggestion is to simply slow down and let things unfold as they do. Give yourselves both a little breathing room. Work your own recovery. You'll be better off for it, regardless of what happens with him and with the marriage.

Dimndaruf

I'm not sure if you meant the "good" different or the "bad" different but a lot is different, we live separately (5 mins from each other) so that in itself has changed a lot of dynamics about the relationship. A few months ago we both began to date other people (me first because I didn't want the marriage anymore and told him we should separate or divorce because he's wasting my time), just trying to move on only to find ourselves both still wanting to be with each other. There's no constant insecurities on his part about other men and what I'm doing behind his back. I'm not living on 24 fear watch because we don't live together, which is a lot less stressful for me.....whew.

Not sure if I answered your question atalose.

dandylion

Just for the record, dimndaurf. I did not come up with the One or 2Yrs. estimation----this comes from what a few m illion recovering alcoholics have said.

dandylion

****I will take this opportunity to add one other teensie fact.....It is possible to be attracted, biologically to someone ...or, many someones .....who are not good for us......

How do I k now this?.......it has happened to me!

Dimndaruf

Yea, still struggling with this one...lol

Thanks for your honesty!

Kboys

I definitely relate... especially to this^^^
My AH stayed sober for nine months, and in that time, especially in the first few months, I tried many times to talk to him about my feelings. I wanted him to understand all that he had put me through, and how hard it was on me... I wanted a real genuine apology... I wanted him to tell me how lucky he felt that I stayed with him... and all that.
But pretty much all I got was him turning it around on me... "what about all I've gone through? Can't you just get over it?" You're not perfect either" and on and on. It is ridiculously frustrating.

We went to marriage counseling a few times... disaster
So eventually I stopped bringing anything up, because I realized I was not going to get the response from him that I wanted... no matter how I tried to word things, or when I timed the conversations.
I still have a lot of anger and resentment, but I know I need to work on those things on my own, and with Al-anon, and SR. He will not heal me. He started drinking again in July, and we are now separated.

My AH was not going to AA or working a program, like yours is...

Maybe just give it some time, and keep working on you!!!

Hugs to you!!!!

Dimndaruf

I'm still looking for him to "heal me" and I need to stop because from all that I'm reading the chances are slim to none. All the babying his emotions and "fixing myself" for him just to get a small fraction back is so angering! I know feelings change but I just feel like I can NEVER be fully committed to him without some sort of healing from him. I feel like a sucker and like he's taking me for granted, taken advantage of. It just doesn't settle well with me. I hope this changes, I'm working on myself and trying ...

I'm sorry about your separation...how are the both of you dealing?

Dimndaruf

Curious....what exactly was a disaster in regards to the marriage counseling? Was he still active or was he sober at the time?

Kboys

He was sober, and had been for about three months when we started.

He didn't like what the the counselor had to say (and I will say, I was not thrilled with her either, but I felt like she was fair... I didn't feel like she was "taking my side" like AH thought.)

He felt like she was "just one more person judging him and telling him he's a piece of sh1t"
He ended up yelling at her in session, and walking out. I thought about trying another counselor, but we never did... I can take a pretty good guess how it would have turned out.

dandylion

Dimndaurf......I take it as a sign of health that "these things" do not "settle well" with you!
Trust and respect are the most basic components of a good relationship.
When those are there....we just feel it. We know it.
When they are absent...we feel it, also.

I get the feeling that you have suffered abuse in your relationship. And, I realize that you may have never thought of it like that.
When one has been abused....there are scars....on the inside, where nobody else can see.
That trauma and pain can invade all the other areas of your existence...to one extent or another.....

Your first allegiance, in life, is to yourself.....if not....you can never fully be present---as the person you were born to be.....

Never settle...just to please or satisfy someone else....You are the only one who has to live in your skin.....

dandylion