Is maturity and empathy possible after recovery?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Dimndaruf 
I must say there is this sense of urgency recently due for the fact that we are living separately and have been for a year, we're in talks about divorce and I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time. I've made progress in myself but my marriage has been at a standstill. I'm usually very patient but I just don't have the patience to watch him keep making the same mistakes. I've accepted him with his his "disease" but I can't stand around and watch him hang with the same drinking buddies and go to the parties. I'm 35, in good shape, smart, outgoing and still very physically attractive. I'm scared that I'm going to give him all my youth, the best years of my life and I'll be one of those women that says I should have left a Iong time ago. I've been committed to this man but I've gotta love myself enough to learn when enough is enough. But what is enough??
What if you divorce and then he gets his act together? Well, you can always reconcile if you both want that, but worst case scenario is that he becomes a much better, more responsible dad to his children and you are able to cooperate as parents for the good of your kids. I have the world's friendliest divorce, thanks to my first husband's sobriety.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Laurelton
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by LexieCat
OK, well, those are legitimate feelings. You can walk away whenever you feel ready to do that. There isn't some magic "thing" that has to happen before you're justified in leaving. For most of us, "enough" is when the pain of leaving is outweighed by the pain of staying (or, in your case, waiting around for things to get better).
What if you divorce and then he gets his act together? Well, you can always reconcile if you both want that, but worst case scenario is that he becomes a much better, more responsible dad to his children and you are able to cooperate as parents for the good of your kids. I have the world's friendliest divorce, thanks to my first husband's sobriety.
What if you divorce and then he gets his act together? Well, you can always reconcile if you both want that, but worst case scenario is that he becomes a much better, more responsible dad to his children and you are able to cooperate as parents for the good of your kids. I have the world's friendliest divorce, thanks to my first husband's sobriety.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sounds like you'd like to move on. Nothing wrong with that. Have you talked with a lawyer? Might be a good first step. Just to get the lay of the land, so to speak.
Do you really want to spend your life, and your children's childhoods, treading water?
Do you really want to spend your life, and your children's childhoods, treading water?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
Posts: 4,136
Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
I've learned to start taking care of myself again and believe me, I treat myself! It sucks that treating myself usually just ends up making him MORE insecure and he thinks I'm bettering myself as part of an exit strategy to leave him.
Yes, I can see where bettering yourself might feel like a threat to him. I've heard of this happening when the wife loses a bunch of weight and/or gets fit too...the husband starts to worry that she will feel so good about herself she won't need him anymore...
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
insanity-
doing the same things over and over expecting different results.
or
doing the same things over and over knowing the results will be the same.
im guilty of it, and even after i got sober!
i treated the part of me that caused me to drink but not thoroughly. i didnt treat the enabling codependant part.
took a crapload of work to get to where i am. it all staryed with me getting tired of the mental mayhem and wanting the chaos out of my life.
the hardest word, imo, for an alcoholic and a codie to say is no!
putting my mental and emotional state first wasnt the easiest thing to do. but i didnt want the chaos and drama in my head and my life, so i had to take the suggestions given- whether they were given gently or bluntly- and use em.
keep working on you. not always easy(very simple concepts though!) but WILL be worth it.
many folks here to attest to that.
doing the same things over and over expecting different results.
or
doing the same things over and over knowing the results will be the same.
im guilty of it, and even after i got sober!
i treated the part of me that caused me to drink but not thoroughly. i didnt treat the enabling codependant part.
took a crapload of work to get to where i am. it all staryed with me getting tired of the mental mayhem and wanting the chaos out of my life.
the hardest word, imo, for an alcoholic and a codie to say is no!
putting my mental and emotional state first wasnt the easiest thing to do. but i didnt want the chaos and drama in my head and my life, so i had to take the suggestions given- whether they were given gently or bluntly- and use em.
keep working on you. not always easy(very simple concepts though!) but WILL be worth it.
many folks here to attest to that.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
I guess I have a fear of him being misguided. I've read stories of sponsors telling their sponsee they should leave their spouse. Also, when he came out of the inpatient treatment he told me he was leaving his music career and focusing on his sobriety 1st along with his job. Months later he's having constant relapses and a new sponsor that deems his involvement in the music industry ok. Why would the facility tell him it's not healthy and then the sponsor say that it's ok, especially in such EARLY recovery?
That's my opinion. I'm no longer in the realm of dealing with all this and have been able to step back into reality and away from this abyss of AA and ALANON. There is a world out there of normal healthy people and you don't have to live your life in that abyss. My only comment is on the sponsor concern. The rest, I agree with the horse thief analogy. I know recovered addicts and they still all act immaturely, irrationally, compulsively, etc. and above all selfishly and try to cover it with a cloak of good Samaritan and being "good" every day. Making amends and walking off into the sunset all jolly with themselves. These are the ones I know. I don't want anyone to get all worked up thinking I'm stereotyping.
Good luck and remember you could die tomorrow. How do you want to spend the rest of your days. Dealing with someone who makes you miserable and you hang on the tiny broken shards of happiness or going out and finding something better?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
Posts: 4,136
There are plenty of folks who do not have ANY addiction issues who LACK in maturity and empathy.
I think maturity and empathy are possible after recovery. It depends on the person. It depends on what else has changed about them aside from becoming sober.
Just because someone stops drinking does not mean qualities like maturity, empathy, sensitivity, generosity, thoughtfulnes, etc. appear that may have been lacking. Sometimes they need to be sober for awhile for real changes like that to manifest and those changes may take awhile...
[something to think about]
I think maturity and empathy are possible after recovery. It depends on the person. It depends on what else has changed about them aside from becoming sober.
Just because someone stops drinking does not mean qualities like maturity, empathy, sensitivity, generosity, thoughtfulnes, etc. appear that may have been lacking. Sometimes they need to be sober for awhile for real changes like that to manifest and those changes may take awhile...
[something to think about]
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,615
addicts can be assholes, absolutely. I would venture to say that anyone in the grasp of addiction is an *******. I sure was.
Recovered alcoholics and addicts can also be assholes, but at a much lower rate. The reason for this is...... We are all human beings! People in recovery, who truly embrace a program and become willing to conquer their addiction and own up to their mistakes and truly wish to live a sober life, in my personal experience, are some of the most rocking people I know.
Those of us who won't recover, for whatever reason, do tend to get stuck in ******* mode.
As for the sponsor, well alkies don't tend to put themselves in the hands of heir sponsor. Those of us who choose the aa route tend to pick a different higher power. While we are given a ton of latitude to pick a higher power: it can be trees, the universe, God, Allah, Vishnu, Jesus, a blue tomato, but I'm pretty sure your sponsor is the only one frowned upon in terms of choosing as your hp. Again, we are all human. I love my sponsor. She has given me a huge gift of her time and wisdom and advise. But she has never given me a direct order to do anything. It doesn't really work that way. If she told me to read page 88 of a book, I'd do it. If she told me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't. When she relapsed, I didn't.
We are all people, and when we do our very best to be our best selves, for ourselves at least as much as for our loved ones, we tend to do well.
Recovered alcoholics and addicts can also be assholes, but at a much lower rate. The reason for this is...... We are all human beings! People in recovery, who truly embrace a program and become willing to conquer their addiction and own up to their mistakes and truly wish to live a sober life, in my personal experience, are some of the most rocking people I know.
Those of us who won't recover, for whatever reason, do tend to get stuck in ******* mode.
As for the sponsor, well alkies don't tend to put themselves in the hands of heir sponsor. Those of us who choose the aa route tend to pick a different higher power. While we are given a ton of latitude to pick a higher power: it can be trees, the universe, God, Allah, Vishnu, Jesus, a blue tomato, but I'm pretty sure your sponsor is the only one frowned upon in terms of choosing as your hp. Again, we are all human. I love my sponsor. She has given me a huge gift of her time and wisdom and advise. But she has never given me a direct order to do anything. It doesn't really work that way. If she told me to read page 88 of a book, I'd do it. If she told me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't. When she relapsed, I didn't.
We are all people, and when we do our very best to be our best selves, for ourselves at least as much as for our loved ones, we tend to do well.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by wehav2day
addicts can be assholes, absolutely. I would venture to say that anyone in the grasp of addiction is an *******. I sure was.
Recovered alcoholics and addicts can also be assholes, but at a much lower rate. The reason for this is...... We are all human beings! People in recovery, who truly embrace a program and become willing to conquer their addiction and own up to their mistakes and truly wish to live a sober life, in my personal experience, are some of the most rocking people I know.
Those of us who won't recover, for whatever reason, do tend to get stuck in ******* mode.
As for the sponsor, well alkies don't tend to put themselves in the hands of heir sponsor. Those of us who choose the aa route tend to pick a different higher power. While we are given a ton of latitude to pick a higher power: it can be trees, the universe, God, Allah, Vishnu, Jesus, a blue tomato, but I'm pretty sure your sponsor is the only one frowned upon in terms of choosing as your hp. Again, we are all human. I love my sponsor. She has given me a huge gift of her time and wisdom and advise. But she has never given me a direct order to do anything. It doesn't really work that way. If she told me to read page 88 of a book, I'd do it. If she told me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't. When she relapsed, I didn't.
We are all people, and when we do our very best to be our best selves, for ourselves at least as much as for our loved ones, we tend to do well.
Recovered alcoholics and addicts can also be assholes, but at a much lower rate. The reason for this is...... We are all human beings! People in recovery, who truly embrace a program and become willing to conquer their addiction and own up to their mistakes and truly wish to live a sober life, in my personal experience, are some of the most rocking people I know.
Those of us who won't recover, for whatever reason, do tend to get stuck in ******* mode.
As for the sponsor, well alkies don't tend to put themselves in the hands of heir sponsor. Those of us who choose the aa route tend to pick a different higher power. While we are given a ton of latitude to pick a higher power: it can be trees, the universe, God, Allah, Vishnu, Jesus, a blue tomato, but I'm pretty sure your sponsor is the only one frowned upon in terms of choosing as your hp. Again, we are all human. I love my sponsor. She has given me a huge gift of her time and wisdom and advise. But she has never given me a direct order to do anything. It doesn't really work that way. If she told me to read page 88 of a book, I'd do it. If she told me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't. When she relapsed, I didn't.
We are all people, and when we do our very best to be our best selves, for ourselves at least as much as for our loved ones, we tend to do well.
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