BlackSabbath

I keep hearing people say how every relationship has its problems, and how "we've been through so many ups & downs"...it makes me doubt myself for leaving so abruptly. I should preface to say that by "normal", I mean one where there is no history of drug and/or alcohol abuse.

So what kinds of problems do "normal" couples have? Surely the man doesn't lie, go to the bar often, take off & become unreachable by phone for hours, drive drunk, call their partner a psycho, accuse them of hiding things (my ex used to be paranoid about my phone - I never had a guy friend but he'd lose his **** & ask me twenty questions every time my phone rang or I got a text and if my phone was not out in the open he would accuse me of hiding something - when he went through my texts, he'd always find something to question me about) and I'm sure "normal" partners don't stay up all night, sleep all day & avoid work? Do "normal" couples have the same financial problems - one partner spending a tonne on booze while the other one spends their money on groceries & the kids???

I also assume "normal" couples have lives, i.e. other interests & human interaction outside of the relationship and are able to be out of the house without either being harassed or facing a barrage of questions upon returning home.

I might be way out of touch with reality here but I'd like to believe that "normal" couples trust each other, don't invade each other's privacy, the man gives the woman a kiss goodbye when he leaves regardless of his mood, they help each other around the house & or at least with the kids, and chill out together most evenings and sleep in the same bed. Am I too much of an idealist wanting those things in a relationship?

I find myself wondering if it's me, my behaviour, or my expectations that are way off base. I'm going through a phase of "oh, it wasn't so bad" and truly need some support to get over this hump. I've been pretty much NC with my axbf since I left him 3 months ago & he's made no attempt to ask me why I left, how the kids are, or how we are getting by. He claims that every time I take off I break his heart. Truth be told, I take off & leave because I am afraid for my safety (and our kids' of course) based on his violent, crazy actions in the past and I'm not there to be peed & pooped on.

Our two year old son mentioned him again today & I started bawling, I've been crying every day for the past week or so and it has nothing to do with hormones. I explained Daddy loves him, that he is sick right now & will call when he is better. Is it possible axbf knows he is a douchebag and is staying out of our lives for our benefit, or is this much rationale expecting too much from an addict? Axbf still has items of ours at his house that he is dragging his arse returning - I need the crib for our daughter and I feel like he wants me to beg for it.

Some days I'm Wonder Woman strong, other days I have the strength of a wet Kleenex

JOIE12

I'm so sorry Blacksabbath. We know all too well what this feels like and cry right along with you.

Remember to pick your head up and place those two feet on the ground for your life depends upon it and your child.

Hugs for you,
Joie

Soulful

I too have no idea what "normal" means and what to accept or not. Thank you for sharing your story, I associate with a lot you wrote.

SparkleKitty

I have those things in my relationship that you are wondering if it is "idealistic" to ask for. Sometimes I take them for granted; thanking you for posting so I remember not to do that. I could not have those things in a relationship with someone else - anyone else - until I built a solid relationship with myself. Until I understood that happiness is an inside job whether I was in a relationship or not, the expectations that I put on a relationship and another person were setting me up for failure. Until I stopped telling myself I "needed" a relationship to be whole, I couldn't be healthy or happy.

EDited to Add: I am not currently in a relationship with an A. My relationships with As (my mother, my XABF) are all behind me. My husband is an ACoA as well, and spent about as much time in therapy as I did following a very unhealthy relationship himself.

Refiner

What Sparklekitty said and then some. I have all those things you describe as normal but would never have if I first didn't discover my own happiness with mySELF first. NEVER EVER let another person define who you are or what your happiness level is.

healthyagain

I really have no idea what normal is anymore. I thought I had the most normal expectations and ended up with a freak. All I know is that on Friday, I gave myself a great gift: a second chance to have a happy life. I promised myself that I will not seek relationships, that is intentionally look for men. But, do I wonder what it would be like to meet a "normal" decent guy? Yes! But how can I know what normal is? It will take time to heal and rediscover myself, reestablish boundaries. And maybe then I start attracting decent guys.

BlackSabbath

Hmmm...SparkleKitty, my frame of mind got me all uppity & defensive reading your post! Until I thought about it, and realized it's not me. One thing myself and those who know me will tell you is that I'm a happy gal well, going through this has dampened my spirits, but I will get back to my "happy place" again very soon! I'm pretty stressed out right now dealing with this. I certainly have never needed a relationship on which to base my happiness - single isn't a disease, and I'd rather be happy & single than stuck in a miserable relationship. I'm not actively seeking a man either - I'm too busy with my little kids & building up my business.

Axbf told me once that was something that peed him off about me - my happiness!!! I'm always laughing, giggling, making up songs. It's him. He's the one unhappy because he's not happy with himself. He placed the burden of his happiness on me, and will do that to every woman until he figures it out. I've never been tolerant of his crappy behaviour and he knows that. I'm actually quite a hard-a!s so I'm wondering if my expectations are too high.

For now though, I'm focused on what I can change & influence - which is ME. And I am happy. Just wondering what's normal is all. I'm grieving the loss of what I thought I had, but that doesn't mean the happy BlackSabbath is always frowning.

silentrun

I noticed when I was around my mom at first I thought "what is wrong with her?". Too much time and I started wondering what was wrong with me. Crazy making people and situations have a way of making more healthy people feel crazy too.

As far as romantic relationships go you should never be made to feel unsafe. As far as trust it would be nice if a person didn't feel the need to be suspicious. Sometimes there is a real reason to be and sometimes it is totally fabricated in someone's mind. I accidently took my husbands phone a few days ago so he had to use mine. I didn't feel the need to go through his and I am pretty sure he didn't search my accounts either.

You are probably onto something with addicts setting up situations that cause conflict. If one person is spending limited family resources on their DOC that would cause an argument. I think walking away from that situation was a very normal, healthy thing to do.

dandylion

BlackSabbath......People are born with a certain inborn temperament. Some are naturally on the optimistic, "glass half full" side of things. And, this tends to be a consistent feature of their personalities, across life. Others..not so.
I see that you identify with the former one.....lol.
Positive is more or less a basic characteristic.....but, happy, sad, angry, depressed, etc., are moods.....moods that can shift and change according to circumstances.
They can shift quickly...from minutes or hours, sometimes. Nobody is in one mood ALL of the time.

It is entirely normal for you, for example, to cry and question yourself....to feel angry or as weak as a "wet kleenex".......and, yet, have a basic foundation of "upbeat" personality......or "bad ---"....as you say....lol.

I think that SparkleKitty was sharing HER experience with you...from when she struggles with expectations in relationships....when she struggles with "what is normal?". As one who has been through the fire, herself....I believe that she was offering empathy.....

There is a wonderful thread on this forum....you can go to the bar at the top of this forum and do a "search" for the thread titled: "Things a Normie Wouldn't Know".
It address exactly what you are talking about. You will recognize soo much...in this popular and entertaining thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am offering this post just as food for your thought....

dandylion

gleefan

Black Sabbath - You're right. Happy couples don't have the problems that come from being in a relationship with an active addict.

I'm an alcoholic and (in my opinion) my husband is too. While our issues are different from yours, we have challenges related to our alcohol abuse and the toxic behaviors underlying our addictions.

You've made a huge step by deciding to make a change. Happiness, serenity, and acceptance are definitely an inside job. I've been actively working on it through AA and AlAnon. They work!

BlackSabbath

So, my idea of a "normal" relationship isn't totally ridonculous? My definition falls within my boundaries that I feel more confident reinforcing.

I still don't know what "normal" couple problems are? I feel like I need to figure this out so I'm not hyper sensitive if a "normal" problem arises in my next relationship that shouldn't be considered a big deal.

dandylion

BlackSabbath..... I think the term "typical" or "healthy" are better descriptions of relationships that are jurturing and rewarding. There are inevitable conflicts in all relationships at one time or another.

These types of relationships are grounded in respect and trust.
Each person is "seen" and "heard" by the other. Their opinions, desires, dreams, goal, etc. MATTER to each other.
They treat each other as very precious.

Love does not hurt....is another way of saying it.

It is impossible to list everything that could possibly represent a conflict between two people.....

Nobody here is thinking your question is a "big deal". We are not trying to give you a hard time. Nobody has thought or said it is "ridiculous".
We are doing our best to offer you our empathy and empathy as well as what we have learned.

Do go to the thread that I suggested....and it will give you a good idea of the contrast between "normies" and those of us who have l ived with addictions or alcoholism.

dandylion

BlackSabbath

Hi...I'm not taking offence in the least! On the contrary, I feel like my ideas of what I consider "normal" are being validated. I'm saying, "yay! So my idea of "normal" isn't ridonculous but rather it actually is "normal"!" I meant I shouldn't think of something "normal" as a big deal...if it's not. Maybe I'm just not making any sense.

I want to know if my idea of what normal should be is a realistic idea? Perhaps I was expecting too much from my axbf and in fact *that* was a normal relationship? I'm doubting myself and wonder if I am expecting too much & therefore setting myself up for disappointment again. I'm so friggin confused after all of this

I read some "Things a Normie..." Posts a while ago...I will re-visit & start on the first part

dandylion

BlackSabbath...........from what you have written....It sounds to me that what you want is "normal".....what anybody would want in a relationship.....
But, It sounds like what you are getting is neglect and abuse......

dandylion

dandylion

BlackSabbath...........from what you have written....It sounds to me that what you want is "normal".....what anybody would want in a relationship.....
But, It sounds like what you are getting is neglect and abuse......

dandylion

Bernadette777

How I love that sentence "NEVER EVER let another person define who you are or what your happiness level is! Amen Hallelujah!!

emilynghiem

Sorry you and your loved ones are going through this.
For the crib, and for reassurance that all of you are loved and missed
even though the situation is keeping you separated to sort through the messes, I would recommend finding at least one "friend of the family" who can relate and communicate between you without badmouthing one side or the other, but supporting all of you equally.

Such a friend could help negotiate terms of obtaining the crib without attaching any control issues to it. Like a family counselor, or a teacher you trust who clearly cares about the kids' best interests first, and is not looking to judge or snub anyone.

What may help is to have some friend(s) to support you individually and neutralize some of the conflicts that are otherwise too emotional for you. That might help take some of the pressure off.

amy55

My ideal relationship would consist of mutual respect, goodwill, the ability to discuss things, (if not at that moment) then come back later on and discuss things. The willingness of both sides to compromise, but not to anothers detriment. Fidelity. Just being able to look into someones eyes and see love there even during a disagreement, (instead of that hatred that I have seen)

Yes, normal people also divorce. It could also be due to many things, like finances, a new job in a different city, and the other person just doesn't want to move. They could have just fell out of love. There are many reasons for that also.

I think what you would like is normal. Can't have normal in an alcoholic abusive relationship. Can't have normal when control is always the issue. Can't have normal if you aren't allowed to agree to disagree, or when you have the circular blame game conversations.

((((((((hugs))))))))

amy

FireSprite

I've started thinking of "normal" relationships like Unicorns - they exist in fables such as the Land of FakeBook.

I used to struggle with what "normal" was. When I looked around, I couldn't find a lot of examples of so-called normal couples. And when I did, I often found out later that they were just better at hiding their dysfunction and that dysfunction goes far beyond addiction. PTSD, anger issues, narcissism, etc. I also saw a lot of unhealthy examples of people who were willing to accept a lot more in terms of bad behavior than I would myself...... so if/when those people fit into that "normal" box it made me stop & go hmmmm.......

And then I adjusted my barometer. I finally saw that I was holding myself accountable to a standard that didn't exist & that, more importantly, it didn't matter what anyone else thought because it was up to me to define what I would accept in a relationship & a partner. I didn't need it to be validated by how anyone else chose to live THEIR lives. I started using DD as a barometer - would I be ok with her being treated this way/choosing to act a certain way in response to her life partner? Was watching my actions showing her a strong example to follow?

RAH used to watch tv until falling asleep every night & I was OK as long as he set a timer for the tv to shut itself off after a while. I always selected Nick at Night when the tube came on in the bedroom- their schedule was pretty much only light, feel-good stuff. I hated falling asleep to TV to begin with but hated it far more if it was a violent show like CSI because it would get my heart pounding. The Cosby Show was an absolute favorite of mine & it was in reruns f.o.r.e.v.e.r. for a while there, lol. It drove RAH up the wall - "I don't know why you like this show, it's not REAL. People like this, families like this, aren't REAL."

I realized he was right to some extent, but it didn't matter because I NEEDED to believe that families like that existed somewhere. For RAH, he'd given up such an idea after surviving his dysfunctional FOO.... it was easier to write off the possibility than to be disappointed for him..... not me though, this is MY story & *I* get to write it & if I believe myself to be worthy of these things:

... then that is enough. If He can't provide them or understand why it's important for me, then that's his choice too..... but that doesn't mean that I'm lowering my standards or giving him a pass on acceptable behavior.

redatlanta

I think what you have written as far as a normal relationship I would call a "healthy" relationship.

People can not be alcoholics and addicts and still have many, many issues. I never dated a recovering/active alcoholic or addict until RAH, yet all my serious relationships have had some of the same issues you describe. My last BF was and is a psychotic, narcissistic sex addict, and he didn't drink or do drugs.

I used to think I just had the worst luck with men. In truth I did not, I had a bad picker, and picked screwed up people because it was attractive to me. So I mirror Sparklekitty in that when you yourself are healthy you will find someone else who is as well.