from bad to worse
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
It is important for you right now because you're just not in a place where you are able to self-validate. It's okay. That comes with time, space, and proving to yourself that the things you thought you needed were the very things that were holding you back.
As for last year, you did the best you could at the time. Try to forgive yourself and let go of that regret because there is nothing you can do about it right now. Right now, you are doing the things that you need to do to move forward. They don't feel good, and you are scared, but you are doing them anyway, and that's enough.
As for last year, you did the best you could at the time. Try to forgive yourself and let go of that regret because there is nothing you can do about it right now. Right now, you are doing the things that you need to do to move forward. They don't feel good, and you are scared, but you are doing them anyway, and that's enough.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
Sending you strength and (((HUGS)))
It IS for the best. You just deserve so much more.
I'm going through it right now too- no marriage, or kids or anything, but it's the pits, I know. We've been dealing with them for a long time. We haven't been validated for a long time. We've been lonely for a very long time. Us wanting them to SEE how we've worked and changed is just longing for the validation we never get, again. It's time for us to let go. We chose them based on how we felt at the time, and they have changed. More importantly, WE have changed. We deserve the amazing lives we want, and we've had a long time to grieve what "could" be. Right now, today - it's not that and we deserve better - This is just not for us, and it's OK.
Bigger and better things await, my dear. (((HUGS AGAIN)))
It IS for the best. You just deserve so much more.
I'm going through it right now too- no marriage, or kids or anything, but it's the pits, I know. We've been dealing with them for a long time. We haven't been validated for a long time. We've been lonely for a very long time. Us wanting them to SEE how we've worked and changed is just longing for the validation we never get, again. It's time for us to let go. We chose them based on how we felt at the time, and they have changed. More importantly, WE have changed. We deserve the amazing lives we want, and we've had a long time to grieve what "could" be. Right now, today - it's not that and we deserve better - This is just not for us, and it's OK.
Bigger and better things await, my dear. (((HUGS AGAIN)))
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by Kboys 
I have felt for a long time like it is over, so I guess this is just one more thing to solidify that decision.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by Kboys
Why is it so important to me for HIM to SEE and acknowledge how hard I tried? It's not going to happen, and I know it, at least not any time soon.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Why is it so important to me for HIM to SEE and acknowledge how hard I tried?
I think that for many of us, as we realize we need to leave, and start that process, this is the $64,000 question.
The short answer is that you are still enmeshed in the relationship, measuring your personal success by the metric of the success or failure of the marriage. You are not thinking as a separate person yet; your identity is tied to being a part of a marriage. If the marriage fails, as it is, it seems that you are taking that as a personal failure. And, then, it makes sense for you to want at least to recoup some of that failure by having him admit how hard you tried to make it succeed. You have ceded him, after all, the authority of being the judge.
I think the separation of two people from being one unit, a "marriage" instead of individuals, requires a lot of redefinition for the people involved.
For me, the longer I stayed in what became a 20 year devastating marriage to an alcoholic, the less I saw or acted as a separate individual. I became subordinate to my former husband, subordinate to his drinking and the chaos it caused, and let myself be a captive to the chaos and unsettled disruption of living in an alcoholic environment. The more I capitulated to that, the weaker my sense of self got. And, since my former husband was quite verbally abusive and blamed me and saw me as the instigator of his trouble, the longer that went on, the less I was able to think clearly.
I began to believe that "the marriage" was the sum of my life, and without knowing it, I believed that his perspective on "the marriage" and my failure was more true than my own beliefs in myself. And therefore, to believe in myself, I eventually believed that I had to do whatever I could in order to make this failing marriage survive.
But that is impossible. Marriage is the sum of beliefs, actions, interactions between TWO people. I did not believe that I could control the success of my marriage, but I did, without knowing it, believe that I was accountable for its failure. And wanting him to say, "yes dear, you gave it your all, couldn't have done better" might have let me feel somewhat better about having failed. I had, after all, deferred on most other things to his superior judgment.
The truth is that "the marriage" is not the be-all and end-all. It is not the pinnacle, the measure of the self worth of either party. You'll get there when you, over time, can get more and more ruthlessly honest about what really happened in the power struggle of alcoholism and co-dependency. For me, realizing my part in enabling and continuing to give life support to a dead marriage, was very hard. The stakes were high for me to feel I had succeeded. As I let go, I over time was able to see that we had been two people, once deeply in love, each of whose flaws, and his driven by the all encompassing demon of alcohol, overcame what we could create together as partners.
I took back my sense of self. I acknowledged that I could never have singlehandedly made our marriage work, and that that was a false expectation and a false measure. I owned my flaws and mistakes more and more and saw how my co-dependence allowed him to continue on his righteous path.
And each step on that path did, and still does, free me to choose my own life, make my own decisions, and review and revise my path as my growth indicates is necessary and healthy.
You are early days in this, and you can be kind and caring to yourself. You did all you could do, and in your heart, you know that. He wasn't and couldn't be who you wanted and needed him to be, and despite the anguish of finally accepting that, it will be freeing. Whether he approves or disapproves of you and your efforts will no longer matter. You will have your own increasingly healthy path to follow. After 3 years, I find myself more able to forgive both of us.
There is hope here. You are moving toward health and away from denial, and toward again being a person in your own right. Be gentle with yourself, and expect far more ups and downs than are fair.
We're here for you,
ShootingStar1
I think that for many of us, as we realize we need to leave, and start that process, this is the $64,000 question.
The short answer is that you are still enmeshed in the relationship, measuring your personal success by the metric of the success or failure of the marriage. You are not thinking as a separate person yet; your identity is tied to being a part of a marriage. If the marriage fails, as it is, it seems that you are taking that as a personal failure. And, then, it makes sense for you to want at least to recoup some of that failure by having him admit how hard you tried to make it succeed. You have ceded him, after all, the authority of being the judge.
I think the separation of two people from being one unit, a "marriage" instead of individuals, requires a lot of redefinition for the people involved.
For me, the longer I stayed in what became a 20 year devastating marriage to an alcoholic, the less I saw or acted as a separate individual. I became subordinate to my former husband, subordinate to his drinking and the chaos it caused, and let myself be a captive to the chaos and unsettled disruption of living in an alcoholic environment. The more I capitulated to that, the weaker my sense of self got. And, since my former husband was quite verbally abusive and blamed me and saw me as the instigator of his trouble, the longer that went on, the less I was able to think clearly.
I began to believe that "the marriage" was the sum of my life, and without knowing it, I believed that his perspective on "the marriage" and my failure was more true than my own beliefs in myself. And therefore, to believe in myself, I eventually believed that I had to do whatever I could in order to make this failing marriage survive.
But that is impossible. Marriage is the sum of beliefs, actions, interactions between TWO people. I did not believe that I could control the success of my marriage, but I did, without knowing it, believe that I was accountable for its failure. And wanting him to say, "yes dear, you gave it your all, couldn't have done better" might have let me feel somewhat better about having failed. I had, after all, deferred on most other things to his superior judgment.
The truth is that "the marriage" is not the be-all and end-all. It is not the pinnacle, the measure of the self worth of either party. You'll get there when you, over time, can get more and more ruthlessly honest about what really happened in the power struggle of alcoholism and co-dependency. For me, realizing my part in enabling and continuing to give life support to a dead marriage, was very hard. The stakes were high for me to feel I had succeeded. As I let go, I over time was able to see that we had been two people, once deeply in love, each of whose flaws, and his driven by the all encompassing demon of alcohol, overcame what we could create together as partners.
I took back my sense of self. I acknowledged that I could never have singlehandedly made our marriage work, and that that was a false expectation and a false measure. I owned my flaws and mistakes more and more and saw how my co-dependence allowed him to continue on his righteous path.
And each step on that path did, and still does, free me to choose my own life, make my own decisions, and review and revise my path as my growth indicates is necessary and healthy.
You are early days in this, and you can be kind and caring to yourself. You did all you could do, and in your heart, you know that. He wasn't and couldn't be who you wanted and needed him to be, and despite the anguish of finally accepting that, it will be freeing. Whether he approves or disapproves of you and your efforts will no longer matter. You will have your own increasingly healthy path to follow. After 3 years, I find myself more able to forgive both of us.
There is hope here. You are moving toward health and away from denial, and toward again being a person in your own right. Be gentle with yourself, and expect far more ups and downs than are fair.
We're here for you,
ShootingStar1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Thank you Shooting Star, and everybody
I have been reading all of your responses over and over.
(((BIG HUGS))) to everybody.
It is time. I am tired of putting up with the abuse, and allowing the stretches of "good times" to fool me into thinking that things will be okay.
I'm tired of walking on eggshells, and I don't want my children to grow up this way.
I'm tired of his relentless suspicions and accusations of infidelity, which have gotten more and more intense and bizarre lately.
It was peaceful when he was in jail. I've been fantasizing for a long time about the peace and freedom I could have without him.
I have been reading all of your responses over and over.
(((BIG HUGS))) to everybody.
It is time. I am tired of putting up with the abuse, and allowing the stretches of "good times" to fool me into thinking that things will be okay.
I'm tired of walking on eggshells, and I don't want my children to grow up this way.
I'm tired of his relentless suspicions and accusations of infidelity, which have gotten more and more intense and bizarre lately.
It was peaceful when he was in jail. I've been fantasizing for a long time about the peace and freedom I could have without him.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
"I did not believe that I could control the success of my marriage, but I did, without knowing it, believe that I was accountable for its failure. And wanting him to say, "yes dear, you gave it your all, couldn't have done better" might have let me feel somewhat better about having failed."
Yes, this^^^ Thank you for sharing so much Shooting Star
In my fantasy land, we have a calm and civilized conversation, and both acknowledge that the other tried, we gave it our all. He tells me how much he appreciates all I've done for him and for the kids, and how difficult it must have been for me to stick around after the height of the drinking and abuse, and his affair. And we are both sorry for our parts in the failure of the marriage.
HA!
I'm ready to move forward, and feel like myself again... a healthier version of myself.
Yes, this^^^ Thank you for sharing so much Shooting Star
In my fantasy land, we have a calm and civilized conversation, and both acknowledge that the other tried, we gave it our all. He tells me how much he appreciates all I've done for him and for the kids, and how difficult it must have been for me to stick around after the height of the drinking and abuse, and his affair. And we are both sorry for our parts in the failure of the marriage.
HA!
I'm ready to move forward, and feel like myself again... a healthier version of myself.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 182
I'm sorry it came to this but I'm really glad that you seem to be more or less comfortable with your decision. It is going to be hard for a bit - but hang in there - it gets better quickly. You'll soon enjoy a peaceful house and you can feel confident knowing that you are giving your kids the best shot at a healthy, happy life.
You can do this Kboys! I'm proud of you and I'm rooting for you! (((Hugs)))
You can do this Kboys! I'm proud of you and I'm rooting for you! (((Hugs)))
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by Kboys
Last night he blamed me for his return to drinking. I know I can't take responsibility for the choices he has made... It would have happened anyway, sooner or later...but I'm feeling guilty about it. Now I don't feel like I can say "I did all I could to support him."
I didn't. I drank in front of him and I drank with him.
Thanks for listening.
I didn't. I drank in front of him and I drank with him.
Thanks for listening.
I'm an alcoholic and I am a big girl. My sobriety is on me. His sobriety is on him.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by Kboys
"I did not believe that I could control the success of my marriage, but I did, without knowing it, believe that I was accountable for its failure. And wanting him to say, "yes dear, you gave it your all, couldn't have done better" might have let me feel somewhat better about having failed."
Yes, this^^^ Thank you for sharing so much Shooting Star
In my fantasy land, we have a calm and civilized conversation, and both acknowledge that the other tried, we gave it our all. He tells me how much he appreciates all I've done for him and for the kids, and how difficult it must have been for me to stick around after the height of the drinking and abuse, and his affair. And we are both sorry for our parts in the failure of the marriage.
HA!
I'm ready to move forward, and feel like myself again... a healthier version of myself.
Yes, this^^^ Thank you for sharing so much Shooting Star
In my fantasy land, we have a calm and civilized conversation, and both acknowledge that the other tried, we gave it our all. He tells me how much he appreciates all I've done for him and for the kids, and how difficult it must have been for me to stick around after the height of the drinking and abuse, and his affair. And we are both sorry for our parts in the failure of the marriage.
HA!
I'm ready to move forward, and feel like myself again... a healthier version of myself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2
Hi, I've never posted so my reply will have some backstory - but I read the posts in this forum as often as I need to. These words that others share about their own experiences with the alcoholics in their lives - they have validated me more than any words my AH has said to acknowledge how crazy his drinking made us all. The posts offering support are from people who have been there, and I thank them too. I can relate to you OP so much - but I'm about 8 months after final breakup w AH. It gets better but not until you leave and cut as many ties as you can. After 18 years of marriage to a mostly sober/whiteknuckle alcoholic I had a lot to process. I have a lot more clarity about the discord and passive aggressive hostility I put up with all those years. But most importantly is what's changed for our son. He's 11, his dad relapsed 2 years ago and he saw his dad fall apart at such a formative age. He also saw me fighting and trying to save his dad, I was the one who yelled and cried, his dad just went out and stayed out for days at a time. Part of what hooked me in was thinking our son needed his dad, so when I saw you'd written the same thing I wanted to share my experience with that. Our son does not need an irresponsible, unreliable black out drunk, and all that comes with it, in his life, his home, anywhere near his precious being. I had a fantasy that my AH would get sober and recover, and then we'd be a happy family. Instead after he finally went to rehab he came back after 6 weeks full of blame and hostility. He blamed everything on me, I had drank with him a few times and now I was the alcoholic who ruined his life. Had I known then that this would be the outcome - I would have left after the first night he didn't come home from the bar. Our son was already in counseling at school because he would hide himself in his jacket and withdraw from friends, isolate and put his head down on his desk throughout the day. I was so focused on my AH that I didn't see how bad it had all affected our son. I have deep regrets about that - but now that it's just us he trusts me and knows I put him first. He also wants nothing to do with his dad. Won't talk to him, won't go anywhere with him, ignores him and hides from him when he comes over to 'visit'. He doesn't believe his dad will stay sober - and since my AH went back to his old life and drinking friends, I don't believe it either. The difference now is that if he does drink it won't affect me or my son much more than knowing he's still sick.
I tried to keep their relationship intact when AH came back from rehab and the thanks I got for that was constant accusations that I was keeping our son from AH. At no point in the last 8 months had AH even considered that it was his own ****** behavior that drove his son away. Anyway - I feel your pain, it was so hard to let go, but I had to. And now that I have - I am so grateful and at peace for the future for me and my son. You can get here too. You can. Good luck.
I tried to keep their relationship intact when AH came back from rehab and the thanks I got for that was constant accusations that I was keeping our son from AH. At no point in the last 8 months had AH even considered that it was his own ****** behavior that drove his son away. Anyway - I feel your pain, it was so hard to let go, but I had to. And now that I have - I am so grateful and at peace for the future for me and my son. You can get here too. You can. Good luck.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2
- Another thought- I was terrified to be a single mom, I just didn't think I could handle it. But taking care of my son is much easier without having to deal with his dad's drama. It's easier because he's a bit older but I still struggled with what I thought was best for him. Turns out I'm just fine - with help and support from friends and a lot of Al Anon meetings.
Also I should say: I hired a lawyer before AH went to rehab, just signed the divorce papers and she's filing them on Monday. It felt great.
Also I should say: I hired a lawyer before AH went to rehab, just signed the divorce papers and she's filing them on Monday. It felt great.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Thanks for sharing scaleof1to10 
I was thinking this morning when I was getting my boys dressed about the single mom part of it. ... I always worried about being single for the times when they won't listen to me, and won't cooperate with getting in the car seats, or taking a bath, or whatever.
They don't always listen to me, but they listen to AH.... But this morning, as my three year old was fighting me to get his pants on, it wasn't as stressful as it normally is. I had more patience, because I wasn't worrying about AH getting mad and coming to take over the job, and yelling, the kids crying. I knew we'd get the pants on eventually, and we did. I was even on time to work, which hasn't happened in a while.
Congratulations on getting the divorce papers filed. (((HUGS))) to you and your son
I was thinking this morning when I was getting my boys dressed about the single mom part of it. ... I always worried about being single for the times when they won't listen to me, and won't cooperate with getting in the car seats, or taking a bath, or whatever.
They don't always listen to me, but they listen to AH.... But this morning, as my three year old was fighting me to get his pants on, it wasn't as stressful as it normally is. I had more patience, because I wasn't worrying about AH getting mad and coming to take over the job, and yelling, the kids crying. I knew we'd get the pants on eventually, and we did. I was even on time to work, which hasn't happened in a while.
Congratulations on getting the divorce papers filed. (((HUGS))) to you and your son
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
"The demise of our relationship is all my fault. If I would have just paid more attention to him after the kids were born, he would have felt loved, wouldn't have had to drink, yell, cheat. I always put the kids above him. He changed for me, by quitting drinking, but I didn't change anything. He's tired of jumping through the hoops."
(((hugs)))
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