Domestic Violence and doing the right thing - semi off topic
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alabama
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Clear sign of his knowing his guilt and wrong doing by not looking you in the eyes. He is a coward! Which most abusers truly are! I mean what other kind of a man hurts a woman smaller, physically weaker than them? Most abusive men wouldn't dare say or do the same things to another man that they do to their spouse and children.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Thank You !!!!!!
This thank you comes from me, and on behalf of other abuse victims, and survivors.
I was in an abusive relationship. I had tried talking to some people about it because, quite frankly I didn't know if it was me, or if it was him. Was this just an adjustment period that you go through. Most people thought I was crazy, so I just stopped talking to them about that. I was isolating myself, I also was feeling invalidated, and that it was my fault.
I have a friend that knew my ex almost as long as she knew me, and her husband knew my ex longer then I knew my ex.
She was the most unlikely person that I would have turned to, but I did. I expected to hear the same or worse from her since both she, and her husband had known my ex for almost 20 years by the time that I confided in her.
For your friend to have been confiding in you for 8 years speaks in and of itself. She trusted you. You see, anyone that was writing letter recanting things, was sort of like invalidating her, even though that was what she was asking for at that time. My own mother and sisters would have done the same, but I also found out after my divorce that they had been doubting me, which also made me doubt myself.
So anyway, long story short, this friend of mine stuck with me. She even offered me the key to her house. I finally did accept it, and I stayed with them for 2 1/2 years until I was divorced and financially able to get my own place.
(Oh, I'm not telling you to do this, just saying this was my story)
If possible, can you get your friend into DV counseling? Or perhaps she is already.
Again, thank you
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))
amy
PS - You are a true friend.
This thank you comes from me, and on behalf of other abuse victims, and survivors.
I was in an abusive relationship. I had tried talking to some people about it because, quite frankly I didn't know if it was me, or if it was him. Was this just an adjustment period that you go through. Most people thought I was crazy, so I just stopped talking to them about that. I was isolating myself, I also was feeling invalidated, and that it was my fault.
I have a friend that knew my ex almost as long as she knew me, and her husband knew my ex longer then I knew my ex.
She was the most unlikely person that I would have turned to, but I did. I expected to hear the same or worse from her since both she, and her husband had known my ex for almost 20 years by the time that I confided in her.
For your friend to have been confiding in you for 8 years speaks in and of itself. She trusted you. You see, anyone that was writing letter recanting things, was sort of like invalidating her, even though that was what she was asking for at that time. My own mother and sisters would have done the same, but I also found out after my divorce that they had been doubting me, which also made me doubt myself.
So anyway, long story short, this friend of mine stuck with me. She even offered me the key to her house. I finally did accept it, and I stayed with them for 2 1/2 years until I was divorced and financially able to get my own place.
(Oh, I'm not telling you to do this, just saying this was my story)
If possible, can you get your friend into DV counseling? Or perhaps she is already.
Again, thank you
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))
amy
PS - You are a true friend.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
(((HUGS))) Thanks Amy.
Her and the girls are in counseling twice a week - all diagnosed with PTSD.
The current GF called me today - she is confiding in me also now. I will not say anything damning in court that she's told me because I am scared for her, but I WILL say everything I've seen. She visited him today, and he's even abusing her from there - cutting her looks down etc - GRRR. She said she told him I would be there Monday too - that I wrote a letter and that I may be called up. He LOST it about that and was taken away from visitation. Yeah, jail isn't changing anything with him. Well, he can spend the weekend in jail stewing about court. I will be spending it enjoying my parent's 40th anniversary.
I have to say thanks to you all and and SR for helping me to be able to find serenity for myself, and be confident with my gut. 3 years ago, I would have spent the weekend freaking out, not sleeping, and wondering how mad at me he was, if ABF is upset, and questioning myself over how bad it really was and if I am doing the right thing. OY. I've slept well all week, and the girls in my fam and I are getting our nails done in the AM - then decorating, then party!
Instead of panicking, I have spent the week baking their wedding cake, and a separate cake that duplicates the top of their original cake including an updated version of their cake topper. It has been SO MUCH FUN. OOH - I can show you guys a preview - it's killing me noone can see it yet
I picked poppys because they are red - the 40th is the ruby anniversary. They are edible, I made them last night and they will cascade down the front of the cake. I didn't want the red to bleed onto the white, so they will go on last minute, but you get the gist. The paisley is the same pattern as the tablecloth the cake will be on.
This anniversary is special - aside from 40 years together, dad is here for it despite all odds regarding his diagnosis. I'll be thanking God for that all weekend as well.
Thanks for being here, and helping me feel GOOD about what I am doing, and reinforcing that there should be no question that it is the right thing. (((HUGS)))
Her and the girls are in counseling twice a week - all diagnosed with PTSD.
The current GF called me today - she is confiding in me also now. I will not say anything damning in court that she's told me because I am scared for her, but I WILL say everything I've seen. She visited him today, and he's even abusing her from there - cutting her looks down etc - GRRR. She said she told him I would be there Monday too - that I wrote a letter and that I may be called up. He LOST it about that and was taken away from visitation. Yeah, jail isn't changing anything with him. Well, he can spend the weekend in jail stewing about court. I will be spending it enjoying my parent's 40th anniversary.
I have to say thanks to you all and and SR for helping me to be able to find serenity for myself, and be confident with my gut. 3 years ago, I would have spent the weekend freaking out, not sleeping, and wondering how mad at me he was, if ABF is upset, and questioning myself over how bad it really was and if I am doing the right thing. OY. I've slept well all week, and the girls in my fam and I are getting our nails done in the AM - then decorating, then party!
Instead of panicking, I have spent the week baking their wedding cake, and a separate cake that duplicates the top of their original cake including an updated version of their cake topper. It has been SO MUCH FUN. OOH - I can show you guys a preview - it's killing me noone can see it yet
I picked poppys because they are red - the 40th is the ruby anniversary. They are edible, I made them last night and they will cascade down the front of the cake. I didn't want the red to bleed onto the white, so they will go on last minute, but you get the gist. The paisley is the same pattern as the tablecloth the cake will be on.This anniversary is special - aside from 40 years together, dad is here for it despite all odds regarding his diagnosis. I'll be thanking God for that all weekend as well.
Thanks for being here, and helping me feel GOOD about what I am doing, and reinforcing that there should be no question that it is the right thing. (((HUGS)))
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OMG, what TALENT you have--that cake looks good enough to, well, EAT. Or too pretty to eat.
Take pics before it gets sliced up.
You know, what you are doing, and what his ex is doing, may give his current g/f courage to take action to protect herself.
Steady as she goes!
Take pics before it gets sliced up.
You know, what you are doing, and what his ex is doing, may give his current g/f courage to take action to protect herself.
Steady as she goes!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
THANK YOU!!
I really, really hope so Lexie. IF ONLY they would join forces before Monday....I don't see it happening, yet. Current GF is very aware, but still so in love and defending him at times, and always in front of his face. BUT - she and I are going to an Alanon meeting next Wednesday. Baby steps.
Haha Baby steps with me too - Three years ago I was shoving the power and control wheel in the ex's face saying "look at it - LOOK AT IT - THIS IS HIM - ALL OF IT." A "meeting" date seems much less forceful, and could lead to actual recovery for her.
I really, really hope so Lexie. IF ONLY they would join forces before Monday....I don't see it happening, yet. Current GF is very aware, but still so in love and defending him at times, and always in front of his face. BUT - she and I are going to an Alanon meeting next Wednesday. Baby steps.
Haha Baby steps with me too - Three years ago I was shoving the power and control wheel in the ex's face saying "look at it - LOOK AT IT - THIS IS HIM - ALL OF IT." A "meeting" date seems much less forceful, and could lead to actual recovery for her.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alabama
Posts: 493
Wow!!! That cake is amazing!!! You are so talented! Your parents will be so thrilled!
Have you suggested the Lundy Bancroft book, "why does he do that" to your friend and current GF? I think it would really help. It is difficult to understand how someone can something so heinous because it is not how we would behave. At least that has been my downfall. Even though my AH started saying the same things about me to me that he used to tell me about his ex wife, and I know they are not true about me. I still think somewhere in my head she did the things he says. But logically I know he lied about her also. I wish I could talk to her and find out how abusive he was with her. But she believes the lies he has told her about me and so she wouldn't talk to me. I've tried. I hope better outcome for your friend and current GF.
Have you suggested the Lundy Bancroft book, "why does he do that" to your friend and current GF? I think it would really help. It is difficult to understand how someone can something so heinous because it is not how we would behave. At least that has been my downfall. Even though my AH started saying the same things about me to me that he used to tell me about his ex wife, and I know they are not true about me. I still think somewhere in my head she did the things he says. But logically I know he lied about her also. I wish I could talk to her and find out how abusive he was with her. But she believes the lies he has told her about me and so she wouldn't talk to me. I've tried. I hope better outcome for your friend and current GF.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Searching - I have not suggested that book but I will! Yes she is in the same position - she believes some of what he says about the ex, but she also KNOWS much of it is lies because of how he is to her. The ex offered for new gf to talk to her (honestly i have to wonder about those motives a bit - it's all still raw for her.) And new GF says she is sure that one day they will end up on the phone together.
I hope so. I'm just going to go get her that book. Thank you!
I hope so. I'm just going to go get her that book. Thank you!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, I second the recommendation for that book. I'd strongly suggest she not share with him that she's reading it, and not leave it around where he can pick it up and see what she's reading.
And also suggest that she be careful using some of the suggested Al-Anon strategies. Her safety comes first, and sometimes tools like "detachment" can actually be dangerous in the context of an abusive relationship. Anything she does to empower herself (especially things like talking to the ex) can also be dangerous if he finds out about them. So she should be as discreet as she can be.
Probably the MOST helpful thing she can do for herself is to contact the shelter and talk with an advocate. There is an art to safety planning, and the advocates are experts. They can give her the best advice, tailored for her specific situation. Her contacts with an advocate will be strictly confidential. They won't report anything to law enforcement, or push her to leave before she is ready to.
And also suggest that she be careful using some of the suggested Al-Anon strategies. Her safety comes first, and sometimes tools like "detachment" can actually be dangerous in the context of an abusive relationship. Anything she does to empower herself (especially things like talking to the ex) can also be dangerous if he finds out about them. So she should be as discreet as she can be.
Probably the MOST helpful thing she can do for herself is to contact the shelter and talk with an advocate. There is an art to safety planning, and the advocates are experts. They can give her the best advice, tailored for her specific situation. Her contacts with an advocate will be strictly confidential. They won't report anything to law enforcement, or push her to leave before she is ready to.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Court went well - PERMANENT protection order - YAY! Thanks for all the advice and encouragement guys. (((Hugs))) to anyone that has or is going through DV. Most important thing I learned is the only thing that will fix this is if we all tell the truth about it ALL the time. Witnesses and victims. It's so important.
ooh and final cake pic
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...725-122453.jpg
ooh and final cake pic
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...725-122453.jpg
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by firebolt 
Most important thing I learned is the only thing that will fix this is if we all tell the truth about it ALL the time. Witnesses and victims. It's so important.
That cake came out gorgeous! Making the wedding cake for someone special to you is such a beautiful, bonding gift.
You totally ROCK, firebolt!
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Way to go! Thank you for being a strong foundation, sounding board, voice of reason and sanity for these women! It is so difficult to find people who UNDERSTAND when on the receiving end of abuse. It's so easy to hide from others...
I "third" the suggestion for this book, it saved my life and got me out of there. It's a real eye opener. In my case he was abusive AND an alcoholic, so I was always blaming it on the alcohol, but this book breaks things down so well that I finally saw the "nice guy" abuse that happened when he was sober. I had missed it before because the abuse when he was drunk was worse!
I'll also second what LexieCat has said. AlAnon is a great help, BUT not everything can be applied evenly in cases of abuse - especially with physical abuse as badly as he's shown he's capable of dishing it out. Leaving (physically OR emotionally) is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive situation. Safety is the most important thing, and so some suggestions from AlAnon must be disregarded by necessity until the abuse victim is in a safer environment.
In the case of my abuser, he was mainly emotionally abusive when I was in the relationship. Occasionally he did use some of the physical tactics (grabbed my arm tightly to save a whiskey bottle once, yelling up in my face about how could I insist on taking a taxi home another time) but they were always mild compared to the emotional stuff.
After I left, though, he started stalking me, then he cornered me loudly at my desk (I deftly ducked out of that one - "Let's go somewhere 'private' to talk" and then led him to our small glass-enclosed lobby, where I promptly ran out the door to somewhere safe)... Shortly after that he discovered he had late-stage cancer. I have no idea how things would have ended if that hadn't happened. I don't think he was capable of murder or anything that severe, but I do think he was capable of more than what he had devolved into up to that point. Heck, I bought a new car and paid for that usually-a-scam-or-close dealer-provided insurance that included slashed tires and vandalized windows, because my instinct said I needed that.
But I digress. Leaving is the most dangerous time in any abusive or potentially abusive relationship. For this reason, AlAnon's 'suggestions' must be tempered by the victim herself. As a result of the abuse we do tend to develop a highly sensitive survival instinct. Although not always the most helpful (especially when it involves revoking charges against the abuser), it is an important tool in the toolbox when leaving abusers, and AlAnon does not have that fine-tuned sensor for how a dangerous individual may respond to the things that are recommended when dealing with "only" addiction.
(Of course, abusers don't always grow in violence when their victim leaves. My sister left her abuser, and his only action was to create a "joint" Facebook account to pretend the two of them were still together. She figured that might happen, and prepped her closest friends to help her get the word out if it did. Victims know their abuser, because they HAVE to.)
Originally Posted by searching peace
Have you suggested the Lundy Bancroft book, "why does he do that" to your friend and current GF? I think it would really help.
I'll also second what LexieCat has said. AlAnon is a great help, BUT not everything can be applied evenly in cases of abuse - especially with physical abuse as badly as he's shown he's capable of dishing it out. Leaving (physically OR emotionally) is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive situation. Safety is the most important thing, and so some suggestions from AlAnon must be disregarded by necessity until the abuse victim is in a safer environment.
In the case of my abuser, he was mainly emotionally abusive when I was in the relationship. Occasionally he did use some of the physical tactics (grabbed my arm tightly to save a whiskey bottle once, yelling up in my face about how could I insist on taking a taxi home another time) but they were always mild compared to the emotional stuff.
After I left, though, he started stalking me, then he cornered me loudly at my desk (I deftly ducked out of that one - "Let's go somewhere 'private' to talk" and then led him to our small glass-enclosed lobby, where I promptly ran out the door to somewhere safe)... Shortly after that he discovered he had late-stage cancer. I have no idea how things would have ended if that hadn't happened. I don't think he was capable of murder or anything that severe, but I do think he was capable of more than what he had devolved into up to that point. Heck, I bought a new car and paid for that usually-a-scam-or-close dealer-provided insurance that included slashed tires and vandalized windows, because my instinct said I needed that.
But I digress. Leaving is the most dangerous time in any abusive or potentially abusive relationship. For this reason, AlAnon's 'suggestions' must be tempered by the victim herself. As a result of the abuse we do tend to develop a highly sensitive survival instinct. Although not always the most helpful (especially when it involves revoking charges against the abuser), it is an important tool in the toolbox when leaving abusers, and AlAnon does not have that fine-tuned sensor for how a dangerous individual may respond to the things that are recommended when dealing with "only" addiction.
(Of course, abusers don't always grow in violence when their victim leaves. My sister left her abuser, and his only action was to create a "joint" Facebook account to pretend the two of them were still together. She figured that might happen, and prepped her closest friends to help her get the word out if it did. Victims know their abuser, because they HAVE to.)
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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THanks so much Starcat.
I am getting the new GF the book and urging her to talk to the advocate at the shelter. Is that Codie of me? - haha - man, I question ALL of my actions with regards to others now. Oh well - it's a gift - she doesn't have to read it. I'm just really scared for her - I've seen what shes in for, and court showed me that I've really only seen a SLIVER of what she's in for.
I am getting the new GF the book and urging her to talk to the advocate at the shelter. Is that Codie of me? - haha - man, I question ALL of my actions with regards to others now. Oh well - it's a gift - she doesn't have to read it. I'm just really scared for her - I've seen what shes in for, and court showed me that I've really only seen a SLIVER of what she's in for.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by firebolt
THanks so much Starcat.
I am getting the new GF the book and urging her to talk to the advocate at the shelter. Is that Codie of me? - haha - man, I question ALL of my actions with regards to others now. Oh well - it's a gift - she doesn't have to read it. I'm just really scared for her - I've seen what shes in for, and court showed me that I've really only seen a SLIVER of what she's in for.
I am getting the new GF the book and urging her to talk to the advocate at the shelter. Is that Codie of me? - haha - man, I question ALL of my actions with regards to others now. Oh well - it's a gift - she doesn't have to read it. I'm just really scared for her - I've seen what shes in for, and court showed me that I've really only seen a SLIVER of what she's in for.
You're her Mom, it's your job to give advice... But it's only truly given if you let go after you give it! You did your job, now let her decide what to do with your opinion. Otherwise you're just taking it back to "regift" it again, and nobody likes to be regifted.
I have purchased five copies of that book. Three as gifts, one as reserved, and one is my super-duper-markup-private copy that I use when I need a reminder of how far I have come. I don't know if the people I gifted have read the book. It doesn't matter, though. What matters is I gave them a useful resource, so I can live with the outcome, because the rest is up to them.
I don't think that's codependent.
I believe the difference between being a good friend and being a codependent comes down to EXPECTATIONS. If you expect her to follow through on your suggestions and get upset if she doesn't, that's codependency. If you just tell her what you feel is important for her to know, let her know what resources are available, and then let her figure out whether or not she'll act on it without receiving any judgement from you, that's just being a good friend.
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