Why do I still do this?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Why do I still do this?
Even now, after everything, I still find myself looking at my action's through my ex's eyes, doing everything I can so that he won't accuse me of being "unreasonable" (or something more profane). Like he's ever going to see my side or admit any wrongdoing. I know it's ridiculous, I really do.
Of course my Alanon homies can see it so clearly, whereas I cannot. I was giving a detailed, blow by blow account of EVERYTHING I've done about co-parenting since leaving my ex, mentally panicking that I had somehow fallen short. One of them (thankfully) interrupted my flow and said, "So you've bent over backwards."
And I have. I know that.
In some ways it's helping me. There's no way he can accuse me of interfering with his relationship with our son, and I have documentation of his dangerous drunken behavior during the last visit supervised by his parents. I've been cooperative and encouraged their relationship. I know the legal system likes that.
Right now I'm waiting to hear what he says about monitored sobriety during visits, since we can't agree on a supervisor for the visits. I've compromised on everything else- length of visits, child support, everything he wanted I gave him. But this is the hill I'm going to die on. He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
I just wish I felt more confident, and not like I need to constantly prove that I'm being reasonable and fair to someone who has proved that he is incapable of reason. I'm also concerned that he's somehow going to weasel out of it. He's already gotten his oldest stepdaughter/cousin to lie in a sworn statement (I was the abusive one, I threw him and our son out of the house one weekend (so he went to their house, how convenient) to have an affair with my ex husband, etc. Lots of sordid details, but nothing specific like dates or names of people who supposedly told her all these things about me. I know it's ridiculous to worry, but I still do.
I'm know I'm great at telling other people how to handle things like this (lol), so maybe someone can tell me.
Thanks all
(DS6 likes the Squidward smiley)
Of course my Alanon homies can see it so clearly, whereas I cannot. I was giving a detailed, blow by blow account of EVERYTHING I've done about co-parenting since leaving my ex, mentally panicking that I had somehow fallen short. One of them (thankfully) interrupted my flow and said, "So you've bent over backwards."
And I have. I know that.
In some ways it's helping me. There's no way he can accuse me of interfering with his relationship with our son, and I have documentation of his dangerous drunken behavior during the last visit supervised by his parents. I've been cooperative and encouraged their relationship. I know the legal system likes that.
Right now I'm waiting to hear what he says about monitored sobriety during visits, since we can't agree on a supervisor for the visits. I've compromised on everything else- length of visits, child support, everything he wanted I gave him. But this is the hill I'm going to die on. He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
I just wish I felt more confident, and not like I need to constantly prove that I'm being reasonable and fair to someone who has proved that he is incapable of reason. I'm also concerned that he's somehow going to weasel out of it. He's already gotten his oldest stepdaughter/cousin to lie in a sworn statement (I was the abusive one, I threw him and our son out of the house one weekend (so he went to their house, how convenient) to have an affair with my ex husband, etc. Lots of sordid details, but nothing specific like dates or names of people who supposedly told her all these things about me. I know it's ridiculous to worry, but I still do.
I'm know I'm great at telling other people how to handle things like this (lol), so maybe someone can tell me.
Thanks all
(DS6 likes the Squidward smiley)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler 
Even now, after everything, I still find myself looking at my action's through my ex's eyes, doing everything I can so that he won't accuse me of being "unreasonable" (or something more profane). Like he's ever going to see my side or admit any wrongdoing. I know it's ridiculous, I really do.
Of course my Alanon homies can see it so clearly, whereas I cannot. I was giving a detailed, blow by blow account of EVERYTHING I've done about co-parenting since leaving my ex, mentally panicking that I had somehow fallen short. One of them (thankfully) interrupted my flow and said, "So you've bent over backwards."
And I have. I know that.
In some ways it's helping me. There's no way he can accuse me of interfering with his relationship with our son, and I have documentation of his dangerous drunken behavior during the last visit supervised by his parents. I've been cooperative and encouraged their relationship. I know the legal system likes that.
Right now I'm waiting to hear what he says about monitored sobriety during visits, since we can't agree on a supervisor for the visits. I've compromised on everything else- length of visits, child support, everything he wanted I gave him. But this is the hill I'm going to die on. He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
I just wish I felt more confident, and not like I need to constantly prove that I'm being reasonable and fair to someone who has proved that he is incapable of reason. I'm also concerned that he's somehow going to weasel out of it. He's already gotten his oldest stepdaughter/cousin to lie in a sworn statement (I was the abusive one, I threw him and our son out of the house one weekend (so he went to their house, how convenient) to have an affair with my ex husband, etc. Lots of sordid details, but nothing specific like dates or names of people who supposedly told her all these things about me. I know it's ridiculous to worry, but I still do.
I'm know I'm great at telling other people how to handle things like this (lol), so maybe someone can tell me.
Thanks all
(DS6 likes the Squidward smiley)
Of course my Alanon homies can see it so clearly, whereas I cannot. I was giving a detailed, blow by blow account of EVERYTHING I've done about co-parenting since leaving my ex, mentally panicking that I had somehow fallen short. One of them (thankfully) interrupted my flow and said, "So you've bent over backwards."
And I have. I know that.
In some ways it's helping me. There's no way he can accuse me of interfering with his relationship with our son, and I have documentation of his dangerous drunken behavior during the last visit supervised by his parents. I've been cooperative and encouraged their relationship. I know the legal system likes that.
Right now I'm waiting to hear what he says about monitored sobriety during visits, since we can't agree on a supervisor for the visits. I've compromised on everything else- length of visits, child support, everything he wanted I gave him. But this is the hill I'm going to die on. He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
I just wish I felt more confident, and not like I need to constantly prove that I'm being reasonable and fair to someone who has proved that he is incapable of reason. I'm also concerned that he's somehow going to weasel out of it. He's already gotten his oldest stepdaughter/cousin to lie in a sworn statement (I was the abusive one, I threw him and our son out of the house one weekend (so he went to their house, how convenient) to have an affair with my ex husband, etc. Lots of sordid details, but nothing specific like dates or names of people who supposedly told her all these things about me. I know it's ridiculous to worry, but I still do.
I'm know I'm great at telling other people how to handle things like this (lol), so maybe someone can tell me.
Thanks all
(DS6 likes the Squidward smiley)Dear Ladyscribbler
I have always had you on a pedestal since joining SR. You seem like an extremely level-headed individual, and you have been a LOT of help to me.
I think the difficulty you describe has a lot to do with having a heart and being sensitive. I believe sensitivity is a benefit of recovery and working a program, but it has a dark side. We find ourselves at their mercy sometimes.
Thanks for sharing. This just goes to prove that we all need each other.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
You are human woman! I too try to work things out calmly, be fair, etc. It is just who I am, and that is ok.
It's also great to put your foot down on this issue. It is an important one, the most important. You are not budging, and that's wonderful.
Many hugs!!!!
It's also great to put your foot down on this issue. It is an important one, the most important. You are not budging, and that's wonderful.
Many hugs!!!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
But this is the hill I'm going to die on. He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
Woo hoo! LOVE that phrase and the energy behind it! And by the way, when you read what comes next...it's not that major of a request. I'll bring you water while you stand watch on that hill.
It's worth it. I totally understand your feelings. At times I felt I wanted to prove to him he couldn't blame me, and other times I wanted to prove to the kids or myself...but it was a fine line separating the two. I think it's fine to do things so you can stand up later and let your kids know you've done your best for them. But if "bending over backwards" is right...you aren't gonna get credit for it anyway...so let your Alanon friends call you out and keep on going.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Ladyscribbler.....I can certainly relate to what you are talking about.
On balance, I think it can be a "good" thing to ask ourselves what role we play our interactions and to try to be sensitive enough to stand i n another's shoes--to understand their perspective...
I think that when it is carried to a point--like you describe about yourself--where you suffer psychological "torment" from such close self-scruitiny---there may be some psychological trauma from your past development that is driving it....
I am spitballin' that it is probably from your young family dynamics---where you were never really "heard" (or believed). Perhaps you were just passively neglected and never really "seen" ---or recieved the message that you were important or that your feelings mattered. Perhaps you were always the "scapegoat" in the family....
I'll bet if you look deep enough (with the help of someone)....you will find where this started.
Ladyscribbler....these are j ust my thoughts on it....
dandylion
On balance, I think it can be a "good" thing to ask ourselves what role we play our interactions and to try to be sensitive enough to stand i n another's shoes--to understand their perspective...
I think that when it is carried to a point--like you describe about yourself--where you suffer psychological "torment" from such close self-scruitiny---there may be some psychological trauma from your past development that is driving it....
I am spitballin' that it is probably from your young family dynamics---where you were never really "heard" (or believed). Perhaps you were just passively neglected and never really "seen" ---or recieved the message that you were important or that your feelings mattered. Perhaps you were always the "scapegoat" in the family....
I'll bet if you look deep enough (with the help of someone)....you will find where this started.
Ladyscribbler....these are j ust my thoughts on it....
dandylion
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sounds to me like you're not as much concerned with what he will THINK but rather how he will spin it in court. That's not an unreasonable concern. It's a practical one.
FWIW, I think all of your actions and the limits you want are more than reasonable, and with any luck at all the court will see it the same way. I'd go ahead and point out to the court the many areas in which you HAVE compromised, which will lend credibility to your line in the sand.
You should think, though, just as a fallback position, what you want to ask for in terms of monitoring compliance or options to come back to court if things do not go well. I wouldn't mention them in court unless it becomes clear the court is going to give him what he wants--at least on a temporary basis. Ask if the order can include a review after a month or two just to see how things have been going.
You might also want to think about what your answer would be if the court asks you at what point you would feel safe about less-monitored visitation. What it would take, IOW.
I forget, do you have an attorney helping you with this?
FWIW, I think all of your actions and the limits you want are more than reasonable, and with any luck at all the court will see it the same way. I'd go ahead and point out to the court the many areas in which you HAVE compromised, which will lend credibility to your line in the sand.
You should think, though, just as a fallback position, what you want to ask for in terms of monitoring compliance or options to come back to court if things do not go well. I wouldn't mention them in court unless it becomes clear the court is going to give him what he wants--at least on a temporary basis. Ask if the order can include a review after a month or two just to see how things have been going.
You might also want to think about what your answer would be if the court asks you at what point you would feel safe about less-monitored visitation. What it would take, IOW.
I forget, do you have an attorney helping you with this?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Thanks all. I knew you'd talk some sense into me.
Eauchiche, that's nice, but my feet are definitely clay. Funny how things are so clear when it's someone else's situation and so murky when it's my own life.
Hopeful, I've been following your custody situation pretty closely. I know you got strict anti-drinking language in your decree. That's what I'm hoping for.
Praying, It's not that major of a request
^^^^^
That is what I'm trying to keep in mind when I feel crazy. It's pretty much a bare minimum requirement for anyone caring for a minor child. I'd expect it from a babysitter, why would a parent have different standards?
Dandy, yes this issue has come up with my therapist. I was a hero child, never making waves, always going along. When I failed at that or had an "unacceptable" emotion like anger, I was always quickly reminded that I had no reason to complain or be angry. None of my emotions were valid and I had no right to feel bad. I've tried doing affirmations like she suggested to replace the negative thoughts, but I end up feeling ridiculous like Stuart Smalley (remember from the mid-nineties SNL skit?) "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me." Guess it's good that I have an appointment tomorrow.
Lexie, thanks. We're not anywhere near court yet. Mediation is mandatory here, and it seems like his lawyer really wants to hammer it out beforehand and come to an agreement in mediation. Or maybe that's the ex wanting to save money. When the case first started he told me I needed to hurry up and settle it so he could get his retainer back. I have a legal aid attorney, who has been very helpful, but I do a lot of the legwork and I've tried to turn the case from an argument about who would supervise (ex's mom or his wife) to no personal supervision but monitored sobriety until he is sober for at least year. That covers 2 visits (Christmas and summer) so it seems reasonable. I would also compromise that down to 6 months, just because I don't think he can go a single day without drinking, much less a 6 or 8 week visit.
Eauchiche, that's nice, but my feet are definitely clay. Funny how things are so clear when it's someone else's situation and so murky when it's my own life.
Hopeful, I've been following your custody situation pretty closely. I know you got strict anti-drinking language in your decree. That's what I'm hoping for.
Praying, It's not that major of a request
^^^^^
That is what I'm trying to keep in mind when I feel crazy. It's pretty much a bare minimum requirement for anyone caring for a minor child. I'd expect it from a babysitter, why would a parent have different standards?
Dandy, yes this issue has come up with my therapist. I was a hero child, never making waves, always going along. When I failed at that or had an "unacceptable" emotion like anger, I was always quickly reminded that I had no reason to complain or be angry. None of my emotions were valid and I had no right to feel bad. I've tried doing affirmations like she suggested to replace the negative thoughts, but I end up feeling ridiculous like Stuart Smalley (remember from the mid-nineties SNL skit?) "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me." Guess it's good that I have an appointment tomorrow.
Lexie, thanks. We're not anywhere near court yet. Mediation is mandatory here, and it seems like his lawyer really wants to hammer it out beforehand and come to an agreement in mediation. Or maybe that's the ex wanting to save money. When the case first started he told me I needed to hurry up and settle it so he could get his retainer back. I have a legal aid attorney, who has been very helpful, but I do a lot of the legwork and I've tried to turn the case from an argument about who would supervise (ex's mom or his wife) to no personal supervision but monitored sobriety until he is sober for at least year. That covers 2 visits (Christmas and summer) so it seems reasonable. I would also compromise that down to 6 months, just because I don't think he can go a single day without drinking, much less a 6 or 8 week visit.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OMG, that is too weird. I was watching Senate hearings today (for work--we are involved in the issue) about cell phone encryption that prevents the police from being able to access a phone even with a search warrant (Apple is bragging about that capability and it's a nightmare for law enforcement).
Anyway, Al Franken is on the Judiciary Committee, and it was SOOO weird watching him as a REAL Senator. (He does manage to crack jokes during the hearings.) But I kept waiting for him to say, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people LIKE me." Senator Smalley. Long may he legislate.
Anyway, Al Franken is on the Judiciary Committee, and it was SOOO weird watching him as a REAL Senator. (He does manage to crack jokes during the hearings.) But I kept waiting for him to say, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people LIKE me." Senator Smalley. Long may he legislate.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
He can't drink at all during visits, and his sobriety will be monitored either electronically or by a third party who has no personal connection to either of us.
Last edited by 53500; 07-08-2015 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Typo
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