whowho

My husband and I have been together just over 2 years. Second marriage for both of us.

He has abused alcohol in the past (especially during his divorce) and is currently a heavy drinker. He has a high tolerance for alcohol and rarely gets actually drunk. When he does get drunk he says it was an accident and that maybe he's losing his tolerance with age. He hates hangovers. He loves the taste of wine. He jokes about being an alcoholic, but believes he is not. Claims he doesn't have cravings or withdrawls. Getting a glass of wine is the first thing he does when he walks in the door and he drinks until bed. He drinks to relax. He doesn't want to give up drinking. Says he could quit anytime.

Basically, I am scared that he is going to become an alcoholic and die. I am worried for his health. He does have low T and seems always exhausted. He also has loose stools or diarreah all the time, every day, several times a day. He did talk to his doctor about his drinking and was told 2 glasses of wine a day should be the max. He drinks anywhere from 3-4 to 8-9 drinks a day. Almost every day. It just depends on time and opportunity.He used to drink during the workday, but his new job doesn't allow for that.

He is a very hard worker. Great provider. Lots of great attributes. He also has a lot of unresolved anger and pain. I think he also deals with intrusive thoughts.

I don't know how to set boundaries and what is appropriate. I was raised by teetotalers and didn't take my first drink until about age 35. Like, is it okay for him to drive after having a drink..or two....or three? Do I need to be the DD all the time and refuse to let him drive me? I've tried that before and my resolve didn't last long.

I've talked to him about his heavy drinking several times. I secretly went to an Alanon meeting about 9 months ago when his drinking was super heavy, but it felt too much like church for me.

I feel weird bringing it up again when there isn't really a "problem" right now, other than I am uncomfortable with the amount he is drinking and the money being spent on it. OTOH, I don't really want to wait until he is a raging alcoholic.

CodeJob

Welcome to SR who who!

Your H is showing many signs of slipping into full blown addiction. You have reason to be concerned. What kind of boundary would you be willing to enforce regarding the impact of his drinking on you?

Alcohol Use Disorder | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

iGirl66

Welcome, I'm sorry you are going through the this. First. Yes, unfortunately if he is going to drink, you must be the driver. It is not ok to be behind the wheel after drinking.

He sounds like he slipping fast. It is not bothering him, there is nothing to be done for it. He must be the one to decide when there is a problem and when to stop. You can educate yourself on addiction and how to protect yourself. Some here go to Al a non and have found much success. I suggest Rational Recovery crash course on AVRT . Keep reading, keep posting. There is a wealth of experience here that has brought me through many rough days! ((( hugs))))

knowthetriggers

Hi Welcome and thanks for sharing your story!

At some point we are or have been where you are now. I like to suggest educating yourself on the topic from some of the links at the top of this forum.

I also suggest to read Codependent No More, it is a great resource and helps you keep focus on you and your recovery, not the alcoholic.

If your H is not ready to quit then you are wasting lots of energy trying to talk to him about it. This will have to be his choice.

How did you like Alanon? Why do you feel you had to sneak out to the meeting? I would be honest with him about where you are going and why. This is YOUR recovery program. Alanon saved my sanity. I suggest to give a good try.

Keep coming back hon!

Praying

Hi, welcome to a world of people with lots of experience, and the honesty that comes with it! I hope you continue to post as you find your way. I had trouble in the beginning in online forums because I really didn't like the things I heard. But I needed to hear and learn them.

I wanted to ask you to reread your above words. First, we all have a tendency to minimize what's really happening. I think this his drinking is likely a BIG problem and has been for a while. I hear it in your 9 months ago Alanon comment. We don't try Alanon because something is just a little off--it's usually because it's pretty largely impacting our lives, our intimacy, etc. and we just don't know what to do.

If a spouse voices pain about an issue and is told it's sort of "off limits" or it doesn't need to be worked on, it IS a problem. It IS a problem for you. I view it as holding drinking above the one person he promised to cherish above all else. You and your feelings are second. That's not okay in a marriage. No matter how nice he his. It's a problem.

So I just want to point out that, just because he goes to work and functions, he can still have a pretty big alcohol problem. If you are into reading, I'd suggest a Sara Allen Benton book called Understanding the High-Functioning Alcoholic. She also has some online content. It took me a long time in my marriage to break through everyone's denial of the problem because he "never missed work" and was put together on the surface. I had a lot of my own denial too. And he used facts like "I don't miss work" and comparisons to "real alcoholics" to make me feel guilty for thinking there was a problem. He was very high functioning. Until he wasn't. It's the same path for every problem drinker if they don't stop themselves.

If your heart feels it, it's there, and probably even more so than your brain realizes. Please be true to your heart as you learn and live.

You'll likely see a lot of posts with a LOT for you to digest--saying things that seem extreme-- and it's overwhelming at times. But we all care so deeply...and we all have a painful path we wish were shorter. Have a peaceful day today. And know that you can find encouragement, strength, and hope here whenever you need it!

Welcome to SR!

FeelingGreat

Hi whowho, I consider myself an A, and my drinking pattern was similar to your husband's. Why call myself an A? Well for a start I couldn't just stop any time I wanted to, and I suspect your husband can't either. I did manage to stop for short periods, but it kept building up again to my previous level or worse. I knew it was bad for me but still kept drinking.
At the end of the working day, I would get excited about going home to pour my first drink. When I was out I was continually thinking about how much I was drinking, could I have another one, could I drive etc. I really loved drinking - still do but I've chosen not to because the price is too high.
I don't think you can get him to stop because he's in denial. He probably knows he should for health reasons, but likes it too much, or doesn't know how to relax otherwise. I know this doesn't help you - you've already tried to get through to him and failed, and I'm not sure where you can go from here except to find support for yourself.

whowho

I tried to use multi-quote, but it didn't work. I'm going to try to answer all of you. I really appreciate everyone of the responses and welcomes.

CodeJob: I read that link. I'm not really sure how many of those he qualifies for because I don't know if he has tried to set himself limits. I've read other self-diagnose quizzes that do put him in the alcoholic range, though.

I'm honestly not sure what boundaries I am willing to set or what ones would be appropriate. I do think I can set the driving rule and stick to it this time. I know it offends him, though. That is why it was hard for me to stick to it.

iGirl66: I will set the driving boundary. I am going to look into the Rational Recovery you mentioned.

knowthetriggers: I don't like how it felt to sneak to Alanon. I was worried he would be hurt and offended. Alanon was okay, the ladies all were very nice. It was more like church than I expected and I guess I expected more practical advice on setting boundaries, etc. rather than going through lessons.

Praying: Yeah, I know that if it's a problem to me then it's a problem. It's still hard to accept. It really is so easy to make excuses based on how functional he is. But, the fact is there are more health issues than I remembered in my OP. He has a horrible memory and insomnia, too. Sometimes he uses Nyquil for sleeping. I'm pretty sure he thinks drinking helps him sleep, too. He tried prescription sleep pills once but they were awful.
It's also easy to say "well, he is drinking less than he was 9 months ago and less than he was drinking during his divorce." But, I know it's not okay. The worst part is that he thinks he is a good example to our kids of responsible drinking!

The book about high functioning alcoholics sounds like one I would get a lot out of. I'll look for it.

FeelingGreat: Thanks for your perspective. Is it weird that I feel bad that he would maybe have to give up drinking completely knowing how much he loves/enjoys it? That's why I was encouraging him to drink within the guidelines of 2 a day. But, I don't think he can do that. Yeah. I'm pretty sure he cannot control his drinking.


He started counseling a couple weeks ago to work through his anger and I guess the counselor asked him lots of questions about his drinking habits. I hope that the counselor knows he has a drinking problem. H doesn't really like the counselor much as he doesn't feel he understands him, but he is going back.

Yesterday he worked a long 14 hour day. He got home at 10:30 and still drank before coming to bed. We usually go to bed around 9:30 because he gets up so early every day. He looked awful this morning. Exhausted. It breaks my heart.

I also feel like I am betraying him by posting here. I haven't told my own counselor about his drinking, either, because I don't want to betray him or have anyone think bad of him.

Liveitwell

Was drinking an issue in his divorce? Not that I expect him to be honest about that but I would bet his drinking caused a lot of problems in his previous marriage.

SparkleKitty

Hi whowho, and welcome. You write a lot in your last post about worrying about he will perceive things. There comes a point in every relationship -- whether there is addiction involved or not -- when each person is faced with a choice of putting their safety/peace of mind/emotional health before their partner's discomfort. I found when I do this, or engage in any other kind of people-pleasing behavior, it eventually comes back to bite me in the butt. When there is addiction involved, it is a form of enabling as it protects the addict from the full force of the consequences of their addiction and related behaviors.

I cannot speak to whether or not your husband is an alcoholic. But if you are compelled to be quiet and let him drive you drunk because you worry about hurting his feelings if you refuse...that is codependent behavior. So is sneaking off to Al-Anon -- Al-Anon is a program for YOU and you have every right to attend if you need it. Minimizing and making excuses are also codependent behaviors.

I hope you stick around here and read as many of the Friends & Family sticky posts and threads as you can stand. So many of us were raised to believe it is noble to put another's comfort ahead of our own peace of mind that it feels utterly selfish when we even consider taking care of ourselves, but so many of us have also learned the hard way where life with an active addict can take you when you don't.

Sending strength and courage.

whowho

Well, his ex cheated on him. Probably lots. They obviously both had lots of problems. She would take the kids and leave until he begged her back many times over their marriage. He would never understand what he did that caused her to leave. One time that she left, he drank until he passed out and she called 911 and he ended up in...I'm not sure...a mental ward or something for several days.

He has said that she accused him of being an alcoholic, but that didn't come up in counseling as something she was unhappy about. She gave a lot of mixed messages. Plus, by the time they went to counseling she was already months into an affair, so she was already checked out.

I think he always felt like an outsider in his own family. Like he was just there to provide the money. He always dreaded going home because he was always in trouble. There was also dread that his family would be gone. I think he has a bit of PTSD from being left so many times without warning.

LexieCat

So it sounds like his ex was a pretty typical wife of an alcoholic. These relationships make anyone a little bit (or a lot) nutso. I'd be willing to be that she wasn't the one driving him to drink--it was his drinking that was driving her over the edge. She may not have behaved well. Often we don't when confronted with the day-to-day insanity of living with an alcoholic.

You can deal with it differently, however. You can take care of yourself, make some good, healthy boundaries for yourself, and learn skills like detachment, which can make life better for you. At some point you may have to make a decision about what kind of life you want for yourself if he shows no interest in recovery.

But you don't need to decide anything this second. I'd suggest educating yourself about alcoholism and giving Al-Anon or a similar program another try.

ladyscribbler

I've been following this thread, and wasn't going to reply, you've gotten lots of solid responses and I didn't see a need to repeat what others have told you, but this caught my attention.
My ex accused me of cheating on him. It never happened. He's trying to rewrite history to paint himself in a better light and take the focus off his drinking.
I left with the kids several times in order to protect all of us from his behavior when he was drinking.
I told my ex several times that his drinking was a problem. He never acknowledged that I had said anything about it, even after I set my final boundary and told him that I wouldn't live with him if he was drinking. He still claims that I blindsided him and never mentioned his drinking.
I called 911 on a couple of occasions when my ex was drunk and injured himself so badly he required medical attention. He always swore afterward (with 40 stitches in his hand or a dozen staples holding his scalp together) that he would have been fine and I was being hysterical and trying to make people think he had a drinking problem. The neighbors called on a few occasions as well, when they were afraid for my safety.
There were several occasions where my ex got so drunk when I was out someplace with the kids that he forgot where I told him I was going (work, the store, etc.) and thought I had abandoned him. He once called 911 because he couldn't find our son (I had taken him to the grocery store with me, my ex watched us leave, we were gone maybe 45 minutes).
Alcoholics are masters at presenting alternate reality scenarios where they are constantly the victims of other people's senseless cruelty, nothing is their fault and none of their problems are because of their drinking. I'm seeing all those things in your husband's litany of excuses. My ex's new wife believes all of his stuff too. I suppose that's why he married her. That and she does his laundry, drives him to the liquor store and doesn't complain about his drinking.
Even if none of this resonates with you, there's still the fact that you endangered your own life by getting into a vehicle with a driver who had been drinking just to avoid hurting his feelings. That alone bears some self-reflection.

Liveitwell

I've got to piggy back on what Lady says above: I call complete and utter BS on his stories. I would bet a million dollars his drinking was THE reason his ex left....with her kids....and that she didn't cheat on him. Why do I know this ??? Bc my ex did the sane thing: accused me of cheating on him while separated, tried to get others to feel sorry for him bc I took his kids away-um, no buddy-YOU lost your kids. Sorry-this stuff really irks me-it sounds like you were sold a pack of lies to further cover his addiction-makes me wonder if his ex is anything he told you she was. Most likely not!

whowho

This is rough.

She admitted the cheating after awhile. She got caught by the neighbors. She apologized to the kids. She married the affair guy. One of the children told me how she has rewritten history and how much it bothers the child. So, the Ex has issues of her own that don't stem from H. But, I won't discount the fact that H's behavior was also at play. Because she did have an affair I also have to figure in all the things cheaters do (like gaslighting, lying). So, it's tough. It's impossible for me to know what really happened.
In our life currently I have had to deal with her manipulations. Just recently I witnessed her get caught in lies while trying to manipulate H in regards to the children.

He's never said that she drove him to drink. I have seen him get drunk after drama with his ex. He has really poor coping skills. When I went to Alanon all those months ago it was because he was drinking nearly 2 bottles of wine a day because work was stressing him out. He copes with stress by drinking. I don't even want to think about how much he must have been drinking during his divorce.

I just don't know anything anymore.

whowho

I appreciate having the codependency pointed out. While I know we are I also struggle to actually see it.

BlueChair

I think talking to your therapist might help, and if your not able to have open communications with him at home maybe at some point family sessions might help? My husband and I do these together and its been beneficial.

Another place to learn about boundaries, communication, self care is over at Smart Recovery. They use a behavioral approaches to help family members and our loved ones too. Id suggest looking up CRAFT (Community Reinforcement and Family Training) method also. Its been very helpful to me, and I like this book: Beyond Addiction, How Science and Kindness Help People Change by Jeff Foote.

whowho

I've spent all day today and yesterday reading.

Why do I feel so threatened at the idea of asking him to stop drinking completely?

I think I'm scared he would choose drink over me. He says he would do anything for me, but I know that's not really true.

Why does the thought of asking him to never drink scare me?

Does he love his wine more than me? Maybe he does. That doesn't feel good.

Then I try to go back to imagining there isn't really a problem. I've read some pretty scary bad stuff on here....alcoholism is a progressive disease. :-(

SparkleKitty

For the alcoholic, it is not a choice between you and the drink. He is not drinking *at* you. He is driven by a compulsion you do not understand, and as personal as it feels, it is not about you.

Rather than future-tripping over his response to being asked to stop drinking, focus on your boundaries. What is unacceptable? What will you do if his behavior becomes unacceptable? Those are things you have control over.

Liveitwell

I can relate to you, OP. I was scared for years to say those words: it's drinking or me....or it's drinking or your kids. I did just that and he's still drinking. It's truly not personal and it took me years to understand that-he truly has no control over it and does not want to choose a life without alcohol. Simple as that. He can have his drink all he wants-but it surely comes at a steep price for him (if he even realizes that-wife and kids long gone). I spent tears trying to help him bc I was terrified to set that much needed boundary. Do the work on you and you'll be okay no matter what you choose to do! Much love to you!

ladyscribbler

I hesitated for a long time because I was afraid of enforcing that boundary. I think that somewhere deep down I knew that he would choose to continue drinking. I tried to enforce lesser boundaries for awhile, like taking the kids out of the house when he was drinking, but all that did was stress me out, deprive me of sleep and serenity and make me crazier while he was comfy at home with his booze. He never wanted to drive so that wasn't an issue until I enforced my boundary of not chauffeuring him around when he was drunk. That was met with a lot of rage.
As SK said, it's not about you, as personal as it feels sometimes. My ex didn't choose alcohol over me or the kids. He is afraid of living without alcohol, and except for some enablers he has given up his whole life (family, friends, employment, health) in order to be able to drink. I think at this point he's not really choosing anymore, and that he has a physical dependency.
Your husband hasn't reached that point yet, which is why you're hesitant to rock the boat. If my ex had still been functioning I know that it would have been harder for me to set and enforce that boundary.
Since there's no urgency, like domestic violence that you're dealing with, I'd say just keep reading here, posting, asking questions and educating yourself about alcoholism. Finding face to face support is a good idea too, whether you give Alanon another try or find another program. I would also encourage you to be honest with your counselor. I used to keep information from my therapist (like you, I did it out of fear and shame) and then be upset that the therapy wasn't really working and that it was a waste of time. Well duh. I have to laugh at myself now, but I did the best I could at the time with the knowledge I had. Now that I know better, I do better.
Hugs, and sorry about my rant earlier. I didn't mean to unload all over your thread like that.