The Heavy Drinking Bothers Me
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ladyscribbler, I really appreciate your personal POV. It helps me to take stock of what I am dealing with (or what I am not). I am trying to see things honestly and everything you are all sharing with me is helping with that. We may not all experience everything the same, but there are often trends and it is good for me to look at that possibility honestly.
You all have a lot of wisdom and I will just soak it up! Of course, I wish none of you had gotten your wisdom the hard way.
You all have a lot of wisdom and I will just soak it up! Of course, I wish none of you had gotten your wisdom the hard way.
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Well if you are uncomfortable with the money he is spending and the amount he is drinking then there is a problem.
If you are uncomfortable there is a problem.
Maybe you'll have to try again with setting boundaries.
If you are uncomfortable there is a problem.
Maybe you'll have to try again with setting boundaries.
Originally Posted by whowho 
My husband and I have been together just over 2 years. Second marriage for both of us.
He has abused alcohol in the past (especially during his divorce) and is currently a heavy drinker. He has a high tolerance for alcohol and rarely gets actually drunk. When he does get drunk he says it was an accident and that maybe he's losing his tolerance with age. He hates hangovers. He loves the taste of wine. He jokes about being an alcoholic, but believes he is not. Claims he doesn't have cravings or withdrawls. Getting a glass of wine is the first thing he does when he walks in the door and he drinks until bed. He drinks to relax. He doesn't want to give up drinking. Says he could quit anytime.
Basically, I am scared that he is going to become an alcoholic and die. I am worried for his health. He does have low T and seems always exhausted. He also has loose stools or diarreah all the time, every day, several times a day. He did talk to his doctor about his drinking and was told 2 glasses of wine a day should be the max. He drinks anywhere from 3-4 to 8-9 drinks a day. Almost every day. It just depends on time and opportunity.He used to drink during the workday, but his new job doesn't allow for that.
He is a very hard worker. Great provider. Lots of great attributes. He also has a lot of unresolved anger and pain. I think he also deals with intrusive thoughts.
I don't know how to set boundaries and what is appropriate. I was raised by teetotalers and didn't take my first drink until about age 35. Like, is it okay for him to drive after having a drink..or two....or three? Do I need to be the DD all the time and refuse to let him drive me? I've tried that before and my resolve didn't last long.
I've talked to him about his heavy drinking several times. I secretly went to an Alanon meeting about 9 months ago when his drinking was super heavy, but it felt too much like church for me.
I feel weird bringing it up again when there isn't really a "problem" right now, other than I am uncomfortable with the amount he is drinking and the money being spent on it. OTOH, I don't really want to wait until he is a raging alcoholic.
He has abused alcohol in the past (especially during his divorce) and is currently a heavy drinker. He has a high tolerance for alcohol and rarely gets actually drunk. When he does get drunk he says it was an accident and that maybe he's losing his tolerance with age. He hates hangovers. He loves the taste of wine. He jokes about being an alcoholic, but believes he is not. Claims he doesn't have cravings or withdrawls. Getting a glass of wine is the first thing he does when he walks in the door and he drinks until bed. He drinks to relax. He doesn't want to give up drinking. Says he could quit anytime.
Basically, I am scared that he is going to become an alcoholic and die. I am worried for his health. He does have low T and seems always exhausted. He also has loose stools or diarreah all the time, every day, several times a day. He did talk to his doctor about his drinking and was told 2 glasses of wine a day should be the max. He drinks anywhere from 3-4 to 8-9 drinks a day. Almost every day. It just depends on time and opportunity.He used to drink during the workday, but his new job doesn't allow for that.
He is a very hard worker. Great provider. Lots of great attributes. He also has a lot of unresolved anger and pain. I think he also deals with intrusive thoughts.
I don't know how to set boundaries and what is appropriate. I was raised by teetotalers and didn't take my first drink until about age 35. Like, is it okay for him to drive after having a drink..or two....or three? Do I need to be the DD all the time and refuse to let him drive me? I've tried that before and my resolve didn't last long.
I've talked to him about his heavy drinking several times. I secretly went to an Alanon meeting about 9 months ago when his drinking was super heavy, but it felt too much like church for me.
I feel weird bringing it up again when there isn't really a "problem" right now, other than I am uncomfortable with the amount he is drinking and the money being spent on it. OTOH, I don't really want to wait until he is a raging alcoholic.
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Why do I feel so threatened at the idea of asking him to stop drinking completely?
Because it is the beginning of change and you may not like where it goes. It sounds like your husband is pretty married to his habits (addiction), and I believe you already know the answer. The sentence as you presented is not complete...It should say "Stop drinking OR. That pesky "or" is what jails a lot of us.
I am glad your husband is seeing a therapist. I suspect there are some more issues here than just alcoholism or "anger that he hasn't dealt with". Your husband has some red flags to me of possible Bi-polar. I am not diagnosing him I do not know if he does. It is very common to find underlying mental health issues under alcoholism. Again, I am not diagnosing him but I think there is enough in your description to point out there MAY be something else going on. Understand if there is the alcoholism is still alcoholism and will need to be dealt with accordingly.
As for feeling bad, afraid of offending him, etc.....I think you feel this way because he IS offended and he DOES get upset with you. Sounds like you have been on the receiving end of some of that anger and you are trying to control and manage his reactions by 1) doing or not doing things you do/don't want to and 2) putting yourself at risk to avoid an outburst/sulking/yelling/retaliation. Its not you who is controlling the dynamic it is your husband. A big part of dealing with an alcoholic is allowing them accountability for their actions. That isn't happening here. "drink and I drive, insist on driving I take a cab" end of story. The person who should be pissed is YOU, not him. Common deflection technique of the alcoholic and common response of the co-dependent enabler to cave to their wishes to avoid "upsetting them"
As for Al-Anon, should you choose to go that's your business. You are not cheating on him. You do not have an obligation to ask his permission or to let him know. Do you ask permission to get your mammogram? Certainly not. Its worth it to try other meetings they are all different and there are many that are not "church like".
Sorry for what brings you, and I hope we can be helpful in guiding you along the path.
Because it is the beginning of change and you may not like where it goes. It sounds like your husband is pretty married to his habits (addiction), and I believe you already know the answer. The sentence as you presented is not complete...It should say "Stop drinking OR. That pesky "or" is what jails a lot of us.
I am glad your husband is seeing a therapist. I suspect there are some more issues here than just alcoholism or "anger that he hasn't dealt with". Your husband has some red flags to me of possible Bi-polar. I am not diagnosing him I do not know if he does. It is very common to find underlying mental health issues under alcoholism. Again, I am not diagnosing him but I think there is enough in your description to point out there MAY be something else going on. Understand if there is the alcoholism is still alcoholism and will need to be dealt with accordingly.
As for feeling bad, afraid of offending him, etc.....I think you feel this way because he IS offended and he DOES get upset with you. Sounds like you have been on the receiving end of some of that anger and you are trying to control and manage his reactions by 1) doing or not doing things you do/don't want to and 2) putting yourself at risk to avoid an outburst/sulking/yelling/retaliation. Its not you who is controlling the dynamic it is your husband. A big part of dealing with an alcoholic is allowing them accountability for their actions. That isn't happening here. "drink and I drive, insist on driving I take a cab" end of story. The person who should be pissed is YOU, not him. Common deflection technique of the alcoholic and common response of the co-dependent enabler to cave to their wishes to avoid "upsetting them"
As for Al-Anon, should you choose to go that's your business. You are not cheating on him. You do not have an obligation to ask his permission or to let him know. Do you ask permission to get your mammogram? Certainly not. Its worth it to try other meetings they are all different and there are many that are not "church like".
Sorry for what brings you, and I hope we can be helpful in guiding you along the path.
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redatlanta: You have made some good points. My first reaction was that he has never been angry with me and I'm not afraid of him lashing out at me. But, actually, he has withdrawn from me. THAT is what I am scared of. I am afraid that he will withdraw and that hurts very bad.
I think it is much more likely he has intrusive thought OCD anxiety. He has some signs and people have been telling him he is OCD his whole adult life. So there's that. He doesn't think he does because it doesn't interfere with his life. He doesn't wash his hands a lot or turn lights on and off. It's mostly about germs and intrusive thoughts. I found out the other day that he counts how many times I kiss him (3 times, apparently).
I think it is much more likely he has intrusive thought OCD anxiety. He has some signs and people have been telling him he is OCD his whole adult life. So there's that. He doesn't think he does because it doesn't interfere with his life. He doesn't wash his hands a lot or turn lights on and off. It's mostly about germs and intrusive thoughts. I found out the other day that he counts how many times I kiss him (3 times, apparently).
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I'm proud of myself. I worked out yesterday. I haven't in some time. It felt good.
I've decided that I will keep reading and learning for the next week or so. I will decide how to approach H and do so at the end of the month when we don't have any kids at the house.
What I will l do immediately is not allow him to drive me or children when he has had even one drink. That is hard for me. I know that is stupid. I am sorry to myself and the kids for being stupid and thinking that it was okay if he had only had a drink or two. I am sorry. This also means that if we go out I will not have the one drink that I sometimes have. I will also tell H not to buy me a drink if he is drinking because sometimes he buys me one without asking. I am going to remind myself that I have nothing to feel bad about in setting this boundary. The safety of others is more important than his pride or drink. I'm also going to tell him that he cannot use his phone while driving me/us because he actually terrifies me when he does that. I get after him about it, but now I will set a hard boundary. My anxiety and safety are important.
I will admit something to you all. Awhile back he was pulled over (with me in the car) and given a roadside sobriety test. He passed the eye part so they didn't even continue the test. This experience actually just made him feel more confident about driving after drinking as long as he "feels fine." *hangs head in shame*
I'm considering buying a breathalizer. I thought about doing that last year and never found one I liked.
Oh, I've also been reading through the stickied readings. It's been interesting to see things that I need to work on in myself beyond the anxiety/depression that I already knew about.
I've decided that I will keep reading and learning for the next week or so. I will decide how to approach H and do so at the end of the month when we don't have any kids at the house.
What I will l do immediately is not allow him to drive me or children when he has had even one drink. That is hard for me. I know that is stupid. I am sorry to myself and the kids for being stupid and thinking that it was okay if he had only had a drink or two. I am sorry. This also means that if we go out I will not have the one drink that I sometimes have. I will also tell H not to buy me a drink if he is drinking because sometimes he buys me one without asking. I am going to remind myself that I have nothing to feel bad about in setting this boundary. The safety of others is more important than his pride or drink. I'm also going to tell him that he cannot use his phone while driving me/us because he actually terrifies me when he does that. I get after him about it, but now I will set a hard boundary. My anxiety and safety are important.
I will admit something to you all. Awhile back he was pulled over (with me in the car) and given a roadside sobriety test. He passed the eye part so they didn't even continue the test. This experience actually just made him feel more confident about driving after drinking as long as he "feels fine." *hangs head in shame*
I'm considering buying a breathalizer. I thought about doing that last year and never found one I liked.
Oh, I've also been reading through the stickied readings. It's been interesting to see things that I need to work on in myself beyond the anxiety/depression that I already knew about.
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Breathalyzer is a bad idea. No guarantee he would cooperate. This becomes control and management on your end.
I never have understood why people get so miffed about not driving when they have been drinking - WHY? I would have been happy to have someone drive me around back in the day.
Stick by your boundary its just smart. When my husband relapsed he went out driving around one night knee knocking drunk stating "I drive better drunk" mmmkay if you say so.
I never have understood why people get so miffed about not driving when they have been drinking - WHY? I would have been happy to have someone drive me around back in the day.
Stick by your boundary its just smart. When my husband relapsed he went out driving around one night knee knocking drunk stating "I drive better drunk" mmmkay if you say so.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Breathalyzer is a bad idea. No guarantee he would cooperate. This becomes control and management on your end.
I never have understood why people get so miffed about not driving when they have been drinking - WHY? I would have been happy to have someone drive me around back in the day.
Stick by your boundary its just smart. When my husband relapsed he went out driving around one night knee knocking drunk stating "I drive better drunk" mmmkay if you say so.
I never have understood why people get so miffed about not driving when they have been drinking - WHY? I would have been happy to have someone drive me around back in the day.
Stick by your boundary its just smart. When my husband relapsed he went out driving around one night knee knocking drunk stating "I drive better drunk" mmmkay if you say so.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 126
Op you remind me so much of myself your answers and everything!!
just want to say im so so sorry to hear his drinking is effecting you its not nice. You take care of you and do tske on advice from these amazing knowledgable people on here xxx
just want to say im so so sorry to hear his drinking is effecting you its not nice. You take care of you and do tske on advice from these amazing knowledgable people on here xxx
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Originally Posted by whowho
That was my concern with the breathalyzer. I'm just going to frame it as my safety and comfort. He can't argue with that.
Has he ever addressed the OCD with a professional? The red flags I saw for Bi Polar 2 were insomnia, anger outbursts, anxiety,perceived moodiness but mostly insomnia and anger. Of course the drinking as well Insomnia can be caused by ALOT of things but it is a red flag for BP2 (very different than bi-polar 1 and often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed) when there are other behavioral attributes as well.
My RAH is bi-polar 2 as well as OCD. He doesn't do the hand washing or light switch thing either. His racing thoughts fixate usually on one thing for months at a time. Lately its been the way people park LOL which I find amusing. His intrusive thoughts lean toward obsessing over things getting fixed. For example he had a minor accident on his motorcycle which resulted in his crash bar being bent maybe about an inch. This does not compute in my household LOL. It is scheduled to be fixed next week but until it is the world is not spinning on its axis.
If it were me it would stay that way to the end of time HA HA.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Wanna bet? Maybe he will be the rare bird who cooperates.
Has he ever addressed the OCD with a professional? The red flags I saw for Bi Polar 2 were insomnia, anger outbursts, anxiety,perceived moodiness but mostly insomnia and anger. Of course the drinking as well Insomnia can be caused by ALOT of things but it is a red flag for BP2 (very different than bi-polar 1 and often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed) when there are other behavioral attributes as well.
I read the symptoms of Bi Polar and it just didn't resonate to me.
I found his last print out from the doctor's yesterday. In the notes section it lists "Depression, Major, Severe Recurrence" and "Alcohol Abuse" among other things. Soooo. Yeah. I think that is on there from the episode where he was hospitalized after passing out. I'm not surprised he has that, just surprised it was listed by the doctor. To my knowledge he has never been on medication for depression or asked to do anything about the drinking. Guess I have more questions to ask him.
I've been asking H a lot of questions to try to get a better picture of his past and his current symptoms. I just would like to understand him better. So far he has been good about answering them all and not being defensive. We'll see if he stays that way when I start asking about his drinking history more in depth.
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I'm glad you are getting some good conversation with him good for you will help you.
Ya I would have never guessed mine was Bipolar either. He was misdiagnosed as depressed for 10 years.
I hope your AH would be open to treatment of the depression. It might really help things.
Ya I would have never guessed mine was Bipolar either. He was misdiagnosed as depressed for 10 years.
I hope your AH would be open to treatment of the depression. It might really help things.
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WhoWho.....I really had to laugh at his reasoning that he "doesn't have OCD because it has never interfered with his life".
It doesn't sound like he has very much personal insight.
Well, I would say that if a man's wife is unhappy enough to go on a website to talk about it (along with the other problems she has with his behaviors) and has been reading and studying and has admitted to being depressed and anxious and "scared" for the direction that the relationship is taking....
I would say that a dark cloud is brewing for him on the horizon....that he is going to experience "life interference" in the future.....
Hon, this is what I am really getting at: This m an is going to do what he wants to do. You aren't going to change him. If he ever does make any changes---it will be because it comes from somewhere else--not you.
The greatest impact you could have on him would be to just get out of his way if you are enabling him in any way. Basically...leave the m an alone....lol.
The big question...the core of the issue, for you, is how well you are going to look out for YOUR OWN welfare.
He is gonna do what he is gonna do: What are you gonna do?
I think you have a good idea, so far. I heavily applaud your continuing to learn, and read, and study, and to ask questions. (ugh! hard questions).
Your own self development is where your future peace and happiness is going to come from. Your happiness will come from within yourself. It is not even his j ob to make you happy....his first job, as a human, is to make himself happy.
As for predictions of your future...it will unfold as it is going to unfold...the best you can do is to meet whatever unfolds and make good decisions that are in your best interest.
I realize that I may be preaching to the choir, here. If so, thanks for your patience.... I just think it is worth the saying....
dandylion
It doesn't sound like he has very much personal insight.
Well, I would say that if a man's wife is unhappy enough to go on a website to talk about it (along with the other problems she has with his behaviors) and has been reading and studying and has admitted to being depressed and anxious and "scared" for the direction that the relationship is taking....
I would say that a dark cloud is brewing for him on the horizon....that he is going to experience "life interference" in the future.....
Hon, this is what I am really getting at: This m an is going to do what he wants to do. You aren't going to change him. If he ever does make any changes---it will be because it comes from somewhere else--not you.
The greatest impact you could have on him would be to just get out of his way if you are enabling him in any way. Basically...leave the m an alone....lol.
The big question...the core of the issue, for you, is how well you are going to look out for YOUR OWN welfare.
He is gonna do what he is gonna do: What are you gonna do?
I think you have a good idea, so far. I heavily applaud your continuing to learn, and read, and study, and to ask questions. (ugh! hard questions).
Your own self development is where your future peace and happiness is going to come from. Your happiness will come from within yourself. It is not even his j ob to make you happy....his first job, as a human, is to make himself happy.
As for predictions of your future...it will unfold as it is going to unfold...the best you can do is to meet whatever unfolds and make good decisions that are in your best interest.
I realize that I may be preaching to the choir, here. If so, thanks for your patience.... I just think it is worth the saying....
dandylion
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Everything you guys are saying is great because I am still struggling to not go back to my place of denial.
I am also beginning to be fully aware of just how in denial my H is. I mean, really deep in denial. I bet he would be surprised that his medical chart lists major depression and alcohol abuse on it. Because he refuses to see it.
He is tired all the time, every day. He blames it on working hard, but I think it is from alcohol abuse. Even after getting a full night sleep he isn't recovered. He isn't healthy. :-(
I'm not sure if I'll be able to wait a whole week to talk to him about this as it is causing me anxiety. I am not able to pretend everything is fine when it's not.
I am also beginning to be fully aware of just how in denial my H is. I mean, really deep in denial. I bet he would be surprised that his medical chart lists major depression and alcohol abuse on it. Because he refuses to see it.
He is tired all the time, every day. He blames it on working hard, but I think it is from alcohol abuse. Even after getting a full night sleep he isn't recovered. He isn't healthy. :-(
I'm not sure if I'll be able to wait a whole week to talk to him about this as it is causing me anxiety. I am not able to pretend everything is fine when it's not.
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Hi who who,
You are really doing well keeping your eyes and ears open. You will be capable of behavioral changes too.
As for his exhaustion, depression often causes this too.
Keep learning and soon you will be making changes in how you react and speak up for yourself.
You are really doing well keeping your eyes and ears open. You will be capable of behavioral changes too.
As for his exhaustion, depression often causes this too.
Keep learning and soon you will be making changes in how you react and speak up for yourself.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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CodeJob: I agree that the exhaustion can be from depression. It can also be from Low T. Well, it's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. Who knows what came first.
____
I just read an article that I could really relate to.
Dealing with Denial in Alcoholism | Psych Central
I'm fighting with my inner denial today. I have to keep reminding myself that I can't go back to denial. But, boy, is it tempting!
____
I just read an article that I could really relate to.
Dealing with Denial in Alcoholism | Psych Central
I'm fighting with my inner denial today. I have to keep reminding myself that I can't go back to denial. But, boy, is it tempting!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
I just read your thread and wanted to chime in some support. You sound so much like me when I got here. SO. Much. Empathy.
Sorry you are here, but this mess can change your life in the most wonderful way. I can here to get to the root of my boyfriends drinking so I could make it end....a little of some of that has happened, but most importantly I've found out so much about myself - and how I can have a happier life and take care of myself no matter what he does. My anxiety is minimized, life is much better. Sending you some peace!
Sorry you are here, but this mess can change your life in the most wonderful way. I can here to get to the root of my boyfriends drinking so I could make it end....a little of some of that has happened, but most importantly I've found out so much about myself - and how I can have a happier life and take care of myself no matter what he does. My anxiety is minimized, life is much better. Sending you some peace!
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I've been reading almost all day for several days now.
I am currently reading Beyond Addiction which uses the CRAFT method. I am feeling better and seeing ways I can work on communication. I am feeling hopeful that I will be able to approach H in a positive, supportive way.
H went to counseling last night and he didn't drink at all.
The things I am going to work on are:
Taking care of myself by exercising regularly and eating healthy
Work on my communication by reducing/eliminating sarcasm, condescending, patronizing and shutting down. Listen better.
Work on organizing my papers and stuff and reducing/eliminating piles/messes
Go out of my way to socialize at least once a week.
I am currently reading Beyond Addiction which uses the CRAFT method. I am feeling better and seeing ways I can work on communication. I am feeling hopeful that I will be able to approach H in a positive, supportive way.
H went to counseling last night and he didn't drink at all.
The things I am going to work on are:
Taking care of myself by exercising regularly and eating healthy
Work on my communication by reducing/eliminating sarcasm, condescending, patronizing and shutting down. Listen better.
Work on organizing my papers and stuff and reducing/eliminating piles/messes
Go out of my way to socialize at least once a week.
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