Hawks

From the big book


"He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. "

Self sabotage is a classic trait

Lack of self worth.... An ingrained feeling of "not good enough "

When this manifests deeply, they seek out "lower companions"...... Like his new woman.

An equal.

It's hard to watch of course, but that's all it is.

He doesn't feel worthy of you and the kids.

Ignoring you is the only way he knows to deal with it, although it looks for all the world like the actions of a callous and uncaring man.

Truth is, deep down he feels you're better off without him.

LexieCat

Weeelll, Hawks, you COULD be right about him. OTOH, he might just BE a callous and uncaring man. Some people are--I've known of people (men and women) with no substance abuse problem at all behaving he same way.

Bernadette777

WOW! Wow! & Freakin' Wow! That just drummed it in, from all directions! WOW! Thank you for posting.

Hawks

So have I.

Different motivations though.

The OP has confirmed the moral decline.

If he wasn't always like that, alcoholism explains the changes in motivations and behaviour.

Progressive Disease and all that.

LexieCat

Oh, yeah, progressive disease, moral decline--I agree. I think what I questioned most was the conclusion that he "doesn't feel worthy" of her and that he's staying away for her own good. The alcohol may have caused the moral decline, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he is already at the level of recognizing or caring what he is doing to her and to her family.

As I said, you could be right, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

Hawks

I think we might be reading "better off without " differently Lexie.

I'm coming from an angle of incredibly low self worth.

Hence he leaves a good wife for another alcoholic.

Moves to where he sees his position in life. With a lower companion.

You seem to be angling towards he has martyred himself from a position of sacrifice for good.

Which i doubt has even crossed his mind.

Maybe a poor choice of words from me in the first place.

So you'd be right on, if that is the angle you thought I was alluding to.

Catherine628

I'm so sorry about your situation. It sounds similar to mine. The cheating is what got me too. I went through a long phase of being very angry at the OW. I came to realize a healthy person would not be chasing after a married addict.

My ex has very little to do with our 2 children. He has spiraled down so deep in his addiction that he is incapable of having meaningful relationships.

I realize I may never get a dollar from him so I'm improving my own job situation. I take care of myself, go to al anon and just try to provide the most stable life I can for my kids.

I've been fortunate to have the help of an addiction counselor (when I could afford it.) She helped me figure out what to say to the kids. Mine are a little younger than yours. Basically I'm honest, I don't try to cover up for him. I try to educate them on alcoholism and I emphasize that their father does love them, he is just very sick right now.

It sucks. I feel like there is single parenting...and then there is this whole other level of basically dealing with abandonment as he runs to his bottle.

Welcome to SR but sorry for what brought you here.

redatlanta

I suggest you get out of the head of the Alcoholic. We don't know what his thought process is, or how he feels, or why. What we do know is how active Alcoholics behave.

Since your husband is actively drinking understand that first and foremost he will protect the addiction. If he is not working, or barely working, his funds are going to support #1 booze. He is in arrears to you. That is most likely why you don't see him. That is why he doesn't call or ask about the kids.

Maybe he cries at home who knows and really, who cares. You shouldn't. You kind of intimate that he "gets to wipe the slate clean" - and that you "are collateral damage". I suggest you read the stories on here of the nightmares our members deal with trying to boot the alcoholic to the curb so they can protect themselves and their kids. How would you like to be handing over your precious children to this man and his companion for the evening? How would you feel about watching your kids get in the car with him no knowing if he is sober or will be while they are with him?

IMO you are the one who came out on top. You have peace in your home and your children and don't have to worry about what further damage their Alcoholic father and Meth addicted companion are up to.

GOOD RIDDANCE.

MrsVain

Check! He was actually a pretty good man. i dont know what happened that he left us and choose her. drinking was his downfall but there were other issues too.

Check!! and Double Check as i said before it was like he couldnt handle "normal". every time we started to get on the right path or the chaos of what he last did finally died down, he would stir up the sh*t pot and cause something else to happen. i actually was okay with cleaning up his messes but i was seriously worried about him wrecking into someone or killing while dwi. i tried very hard to stop him from driving.

Check, double check and triple check. it is nothing that he would admit, or rarely admitted. but he did feel like he wasnt good enough. he would often tell me that "nothing he did was good enough for me" which would always throw me off because i actually NEVER said anything. i did not complain about the stuff he did even if it was done half a$$, i usually went over and beyond telling him how i appreciated him and thanking him over and over, even when it was cooking dinner or washing the dishes halfway. practically on my knees worshiping him if he did something big. and yet he would always throw that in my face during an argument. i guess this hood rat he is with makes him feel better then i ever did. it hurts.

check i just said above that she makes him feel better then i did. she understands and doesnt care how much he drinks. (all she wanted was a boyfriend, she didnt care what kind of boyfriend) i wish i knew if they fought but really it doesnt matter. he choose her over his wife and his kids. she is perfect for him because she has no moral, no values, no integrity, she doesnt care if they live in a rat hole or a fancy house. she doesnt care if they pay their bills or if they just run off to another place.

check it hurts like h8ll, but i know there is nothing i can do. especially if he doesnt want my help anymore. it damn near killed me but i am nothing to him anymore. i always say the hardest thing in life is watching someone you love so much destroy themselves.

check yes, i believe this is how he feels. and of course it is easier to run off then face it. especially when his hood rat is telling him that it is better off for the kids and so forth. sometimes i wish i fought her for him, just so she wouldnt be enabling him and messing with his head. but then again, i think she wanted him so bad and he left his family for her, then they deserve each other. but it really hurt me and the boys.

check yes, i believe this is what he is doing. taking the easy way out. i guess i shouldnt worry about him since he isnt worried about me or his sons.

check i was wondering this myself. sad thing is, i really dont think he even knows why i divorced him. and he doesnt know how much i really loved him. or the boys. even thou i have told him over and over, but now this hood rat is in his head telling him other sh*t, like telling him that i am keeping the boys from him. that i only want him to go to the house to see the boys because i am trying to trick him into doing something. i dont have it in me to fight her kind of crazy. he is stupid for believing her and i cant make him see what is right there before his eyes. is it so sad because his wife (me) and his boys are worth the fight. i dont understand what kind of man would ignore his family even if he feels we are better off without him. he can he not even check on us?

i guess i want so much to blame it all on his alcoholism. i am not sure if it really is that or is it just because he got tired of me, fell out of love with me and found someone who connects with him better. he is all in love with her now. like i never existed. it really does look like he doesnt care about me one little bit and not his boys either. he doesnt care if i lose the house, or feed and cloth the boys. i just dont understand it and it hurts my heart.

MrsVain

yes thank you for the reality check. i did have to hand over my kids to him for a little while. i never intended to keep him out of their lives. yes, it was super hard when hood hat was trying to be their friend. lying to them and putting me down so she and XH looked better. yes, he did some really dumb and scarey stuff when he had my boys (like try to fix the plug without turning of the breaker and ended up throwing the breaker to the whole house)

i really dont know what i am doing, trying to find out why he is acting this way and trying to put it into a neat little package of alcoholic. i guess so i can feel better about myself. so i can say, XH really loved me and really loves his sons but it is because he is drinking that he is ignoring us. right, whatever. it doesnt change the fact that he is ignoring us. it doesnt change the fact that i am struggling to pay bills, keep the house and feed/clothes these boys. it doesnt change the fact that he is f*cking her while i sleep alone. apparently has forgotten all about me and has moved on, while i struggle to pick up the pieces.

i think i should stop looking into his actions. and stop putting the label alcoholic on him when i really dont know. All i do know is i tried my hardest to be a good wife. and a good mom. and i still lost out. i was still left and he still walked out on me. the 14.5 years i stood by him means nothing. the 2 children i gave also mean nothing. as well as the house he wanted that we bought and i still live in. and everything else he just walked away from.

thank you for all your responses. it might just as well be that his actions are those of an alcoholic. but it really doesnt matter does it. he is not going to wake up one day and say "d*mn i f*cked up, i need to go back and fix it"

you all have helped me see that. thank you again. i appreciate your responses.

MrsVain

yes, and there is nothing i can do. i can not save him. i can not fix him. hell i cant even talk to him anymore. we are nothing to him. and that is the whole point. i am just picking at the scab and making myself feel worse now. i guess it really doesnt matter if his actions and behavior is due to drinking or drugs or his new girlfriend or just a change of heart.

he doesnt want me. he doesnt love me. he doesnt need me.

End. Of. Story.

AliWProk

In my case, we had shared custody, no child support, no court involvement, we could work it out ourselves. XAH is unemployed and alcoholic, has never given me any money (we're supposed to each pay half of daycare, medical and educational costs; he has paid nothing since the divorce). I stopped asking a long time ago. So that's not even a factor for him.

He used to demand to see the kids, but after three strikes, he was out (canceled, or wound up drunk so we had to come and get the kids). But I don't think he avoids them (and me) because he owes me money. I think he really doesn't think about them once he's at a certain point in his drinking. I doubt he even knows who HE is at this point.

I haven't seen or heard from him in 7 weeks. It's awesome. I really don't care what happens to him anymore.

MrsVain

i thought that if i understood alcoholism better than it would make sense of his behavior, choices and actions. and although it has given more some pieces to the missing puzzle, it still doesnt make sense how a man can do the things he is doing.

in the end it just doesnt matter. nothing i can say or do will change his mind. he has found someone who accepts him and his drinking whereas i wanted to change him, well...not change just better him. i wanted him to stop drinking, go to AA and live a better life for himself and for us. but his family wasnt enough, his wife wasnt enough, my love wasnt enough. he doesnt want to quit drinking, he doesnt want to go to AA and apparently he is content with the way his life is. i am only hurting myself more by trying to think differently.

again, i appreciate your responses.

Hawks

It does bother him.

That's why he drinks, to forget.

If he ever sobers up, long enough, his actions will hit him like a freight train.

I think you are taking a very sensible and well balanced approach to all this.

At least you have a chance to explain to the kids that their Dad is mentally ill / sick with alcoholism.

Instead of just painting their own father up as some deranged monster and an evil man.

Which is a common theme, that serves no lasting purpose of any good and would likely cause more harm than good.

Some al anon might be a good idea for you and them.

MrsVain

i have just began looking and reading about this. at first i didnt even think it had anything to do with my divorce. people ask ms and i say i really dont know what happened to him but for me it was her. plain and simple. i am not into sharing. a year later and all these new behaviors and come to find out it was anything but plain and simple. i loved my husband very much. yes he drank but he also took care of us. umy eldest daughter died of natural causes in 2012. i went into a shell. i actually do not remember the rest of the year. i was n automode. and emotionally unavailable. 2013 was a train wrck. i was still not thinking straight but even inn automode i was taken care of things. my husband got a job but wasnt giving me money and was drinking morre and more. my solution was too talk.we had many talks. once he told me he was an alcoholic. another time i told him he was an alcoholic and he neeeded help before it distoyed our family and marriage. neither of us looked intohelp. i was still just trying to get thru the days and struugling with bills, house, kids and work and his sh8t too. that was in the end of sept by the end of oct he was staying out every weekend, not oming home, not answering my calls, not telling me where he was. when he was home he stayed in his garage and distanced himself from us. and i let him. i tried a few more times to talk but he was mostly quiet. i believe that his when he found her and started using meth occcasionally. i want to believe he wasnt cheating, just talking and drinking. she didnt have a job or her kids. she didnt have a car or a house, was staying with his cousin house where he was going to drink. so she was fun. listened to him. supported him, made him feel better about his bad choices and of course drank with him. she knew he was married. she knew i loved him. she knew he had kids that needed him. but she pursued him anyways. i have no idea whem it got sexually with them. christmas was good, then he didnt come home on new years eve.ikicked him out. didnt know it then but he went to her. in jan 20114 we were talking marriage counseling. i asked again for aa, he refused. then i found out about her on feb 9. i filed divorceb the next day. i dont think he knows the reason i divorced him. he thinks it is not cheating if we are separated but i know he thinks i abandoned him. he has traits of borderline. he has a lot of foo issues. but he is still a good man. i was scheduling time for him to see kids. he always came.but then after fathers day he quit. it probably was my fault. my boys askedd not to visit with his hoodrat around because she never let him talk, always interrupted their conversation, and would throw herself on him and in between them if they played basketball, football, catch, tag, whatever.i was also having trouble with her calling me, telling me off, taking his phone and answering my texts to xh (like i couldnt tell it was her) and lying to me and kids. looking back i guess i handled it wrong. she didnt want him talking to me, she didnt want to share him with me or the boys. he let her and i fell for her headgames.. so when i refused her coming with him to see boys, all hell broke loose and he choose her again. we havent heard or seen him since. i was very hurt that he hasnt once called about boys. i was having a hard time believing this is the kind of man he really is and was looking for an excuse to blame it on. alcoholism might be a big factor with his new behavior. but whether it is or not, fromball i have been reading, it really doesnt matter. does it?

i guess i was hoping that he does cre and he is hurting. and at some point he will come to his senses and do something to get his family back. not me. but the boys. but then again it just doesnt matter. he is 39 and has started a new life with this deevil woman. she makes him happy. she lets him drink. she makes him forget about the 14 years and his 2 boys.she doesnt care that he doesnt have a job.i know he is getting money working side jobs. she doesnt care about retirement or what will happen when they get old. she damn sure doesnt care about his kids. she doesnt even care about her own. i guess she is taken good care of him cuz he hasnt been arrested fordwi yet and i recently saw pictures of them and he is smiling. he is a little skinier but looks good. looks like he is not going to hit rock bottom any time soon. i guess she is better for him then i was\am.

but it kills me and my boys. but apparently he just doesnt care. i dont know what to do. i feel helpless but he doesnt want my help anyways. he just doesnt want me. it is hard to let go of someone you love so much. i realize a lot of my behavior was due to his drinking. somewhere along the 14 years i became codependent, i became obsessed with him. i still worry about him and it hurts to be nothing. i worry aboutmy boys future now that he burned those bridges. i worry about him coming back after it will be to late. i was hoping that losing his wife, kids house, job everything would be hs rock bottom for him to get help. onlt to find out we never meant that much to him in the first place. easily replaced by a hoodrat who belongs to another man. the blow is staggering for me because family means everyhing. it would kill me to lose it. it damn near killed me to lose him. but he doesnt even care about that either.

i really dont want the boys not knowing their dad. dont get me wrong, i realize it is probably better for them this way. but God it hurts.

sorry so long. and thank you for listening. i will probably never know the truth. and i cant change anything even if i did. it is all so terribly sad

TJD912

I was reading what you wrote, MrsVain, about feeling he never loved you, and that he just connects better with someone else. Your story especially in terms of your emotions....so similar to mine. I just thank God we had a blended family and no kids together. That empty feeling i was left with after all the blame, and this other woman who pretended to be my friend and who he said he connected with better than me...in order for me to survive on many levels, I needed to leave. I think more than the deceit and the other woman was the feeling i had just like yours...he never loved me. Recovering from that damage alone will take me some time. And for that reason, no matter how healthy he ever became (that he was capable of anyway), no matter how sorry he ever was, I just never want him in my life or to ever have my heart, any morsel of it, again. He doesn't deserve it.

MrsVain

i guess i havent hit that point yet. i would love to have him back in my life and in my kids life. but since he has turned his back and forgot all about us, i know that is never going to happen. his hood rat will take care of him and we obviously did not mean anything to him in the first place. life goes on. hopefully i will soon get the point where i dont care if he lives or if he is in our lives.

hopeful4

I am so sorry. Please know that it does get worse, so be glad he is not around your children while he is in the throes of addiction. I am in the middle of that with my DD's who are 15 and 9, it's not pretty.

So sorry! Glad you are here at SR!