Stuck on this time last year
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Completely agree with Dandy and Hawkeye.
I have experience with an A that just decided to leave me one day after I had plenty of opportunities to leave him before but did not as he would always beg me to not leave, our love was irreplaceable, yada, yada, yada. I think I wrote something to you before he left this time as a possibility of what might be going on.
In my situation, my ex found another woman, except she enables him (his drinking, self centeredness, delusions about reality). She plays into and encourages all of his weaknesses and unhealthy behaviors. Since he is not well, he likes or at least wants that in a partner right now. A friend told me this and I refused to believe it back then because I wanted a better answer or at least something that I could control. I was too healthy for him. You are too healthy for your ah. He doesn't want healthy. You would have to completely distort your thinking, values and belief system to appeal to him and even if you did that he would probably say been there done that want greener pastures without the guilty history.
I do not think there is anything that will appeal to you right now because you do not want what is happening to happen. That is a bit of denial going on ( I had it too). If alcohol was not in the picture and he kept leaving you for whatever reason, could you accept that? My guess is, not right now. What helped me was to live my life anyway. If he was dead, what would I do? How would I go on?
I have experience with an A that just decided to leave me one day after I had plenty of opportunities to leave him before but did not as he would always beg me to not leave, our love was irreplaceable, yada, yada, yada. I think I wrote something to you before he left this time as a possibility of what might be going on.
In my situation, my ex found another woman, except she enables him (his drinking, self centeredness, delusions about reality). She plays into and encourages all of his weaknesses and unhealthy behaviors. Since he is not well, he likes or at least wants that in a partner right now. A friend told me this and I refused to believe it back then because I wanted a better answer or at least something that I could control. I was too healthy for him. You are too healthy for your ah. He doesn't want healthy. You would have to completely distort your thinking, values and belief system to appeal to him and even if you did that he would probably say been there done that want greener pastures without the guilty history.
I do not think there is anything that will appeal to you right now because you do not want what is happening to happen. That is a bit of denial going on ( I had it too). If alcohol was not in the picture and he kept leaving you for whatever reason, could you accept that? My guess is, not right now. What helped me was to live my life anyway. If he was dead, what would I do? How would I go on?
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Thank you dandylion, Hawkeye and sparklekitty, I know asking why doesn't help me and I need to focus on myself and I am able to do this, not always but better with no contact and I haven't contacted him since he contacted me a few days ago. I think the contact brought back the questioning the whys etc but also the feelings that everything he said may have been manipulation??
Before he made contact I was trying to deal with the hurt of how he has treated me and the hurt I feel that he just ignores me it has honestly made me feel that I don't matter and was never important to him. I may never know the answers but I am struggling to deal with this part .
I know that anything an active A says may well be nonsense as they have no idea how they feel.
Before he made contact I was trying to deal with the hurt of how he has treated me and the hurt I feel that he just ignores me it has honestly made me feel that I don't matter and was never important to him. I may never know the answers but I am struggling to deal with this part .
I know that anything an active A says may well be nonsense as they have no idea how they feel.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Butterfly.....one more time: It doesn't matter WHAT he said--whether his words were a "manipulation" or were planted in his brain by an alien from some other planet.
What matters are your FEELINGS. right now. Not your intellectualization of what might have been going on in his head.
Not what you are thinking--but what you are feeling.
Your feelings.
dandylion
What matters are your FEELINGS. right now. Not your intellectualization of what might have been going on in his head.
Not what you are thinking--but what you are feeling.
Your feelings.
dandylion
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Miss fixit, yes sometimes I slip back into the denial stage and it takes me some time to get out of it again lol. Your right I don't want this to be happening, I don't want to lose my husband to his addiction, I don't want to start my life all over again, dating meeting new people and all the other things that come along with that eek!! Not that I am anywhere near ready for that or want it!
I don't think I would be able to accept it any easier if there was no addiction because what I struggle with is all the things he said about how he felt about me and never wanting to lose me etc then he leaves, now I understand that he left as I was interfering with his drinking as I was adamant that he needed help and I think he knew thT it would only be a matter of time before I ended it if he didn't get help and continued his binging, but right up until a few weeks ago he was still in love with me and telling me he missed me then the next day it was he's not in love with me and wnats a divorce only to change the day after that to what he says the day before, I struggle with this being manipulation or maybe it's that I didn't see it as manipulation and kept thinking how he feels about me means he won't give up! Sorry I know this reply is rambling a bit I don't really know how I feel but I know I can't keep focusing on him but only myself.
I don't think I would be able to accept it any easier if there was no addiction because what I struggle with is all the things he said about how he felt about me and never wanting to lose me etc then he leaves, now I understand that he left as I was interfering with his drinking as I was adamant that he needed help and I think he knew thT it would only be a matter of time before I ended it if he didn't get help and continued his binging, but right up until a few weeks ago he was still in love with me and telling me he missed me then the next day it was he's not in love with me and wnats a divorce only to change the day after that to what he says the day before, I struggle with this being manipulation or maybe it's that I didn't see it as manipulation and kept thinking how he feels about me means he won't give up! Sorry I know this reply is rambling a bit I don't really know how I feel but I know I can't keep focusing on him but only myself.
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Dandylion I think I do need to know if it was manipulation as that creates different feelings within me. Was I so blind that I didn't see it and if so why didnt I see it. Or did I and I just ignored it because I wanted him to mean every word he said. I do think your right that a lot of this is about my feelings of abandonment and rejection by my mum but also by him repeatedly!
I have no idea whether someone's words are genuine or if there behaviours are either. You mentioned in another post of mine that he was putting the manevours on me and I have no idea what manevours he was, I couldn't recognise them and I still don't!!
I suppose the point however is his words don't matter but his actions, it doesn't matter what he told me one day then what he said the next all that matters is his actions, iam in love with you butterfly, but I am going to continue to keep drinking, I don't want help, do I really want someone in my life who treats me this way? This is not the type of love I want to feel, I may not know what love is anymore but I do know it's not what he showed me, he is right about one thing in that I deserve better than he can give me, I wish he would seek help but I know there's nothing I can do that has to be his decision, I do worry about him as the last time we spoke he was so low and negative about himself but again only he can change that.
Thank you for your support and I do apologise that I don't always get it and continue to say the same things.
I have no idea whether someone's words are genuine or if there behaviours are either. You mentioned in another post of mine that he was putting the manevours on me and I have no idea what manevours he was, I couldn't recognise them and I still don't!!
I suppose the point however is his words don't matter but his actions, it doesn't matter what he told me one day then what he said the next all that matters is his actions, iam in love with you butterfly, but I am going to continue to keep drinking, I don't want help, do I really want someone in my life who treats me this way? This is not the type of love I want to feel, I may not know what love is anymore but I do know it's not what he showed me, he is right about one thing in that I deserve better than he can give me, I wish he would seek help but I know there's nothing I can do that has to be his decision, I do worry about him as the last time we spoke he was so low and negative about himself but again only he can change that.
Thank you for your support and I do apologise that I don't always get it and continue to say the same things.
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I have my counselling, I journal and I have some very good friends who I talk to, I find it hard sitting with my feelings and this has only been something I've started to do in counselling, specifically about incidnet s that happened in my marriage but never dealt with how they made me feel. I also use the wailing wall often lol
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 322
I've been through the same questioning that you're going through now and still do it to an extent. Honestly, there aren't really any answers Butterfly. Alcoholics are a whole new realm, one that I guess we can't understand unless we've been there. It is absolutely possible that he loved you as much as an alcoholic can love someone. I know that mine loved me tremendously, but he loved his alcohol more. I've also heard that "I love you more than anything, but I'm not going to stop drinking" and "you deserve better than this" and so much of the low and negative talk about the way he feels about himself.
Butterfly, I was MORTIFIED, DEVASTATED and utterly ENRAGED that my ex fiance had the audacity to choose alcohol, increasingly failing health (at 30!) and the dangers of living an alcoholic life over living life with me, his fiance, in our beautiful home, with our fabulous dogs and my perfect little 5 year old daughter that he thought the world of. I was ANGRY, beyond hurt and absolutely reeling after I gave him the choice of getting help and staying or not getting help and leaving...and he chose to leave to continue drinking!! I was completely stunned. Shattered. I could NOT believe it. This was the man that swore he couldn't live without me, said he loved me a million and one times a day to the point of annoyance, said that I saved his life and to boot, we were planning the wedding of our dreams! How DARE he! This wasn't the way I carefully planned this out in my head and did my best to make sure it played out exactly how it was supposed to! He was SUPPOSED to stop drinking and plead for help, not choose alcohol and agree to leave me!
Butterfly, I so get it, I swear I do. I did this too. I NEEDED answers! I had to have them to move forward. I convinced myself of this. But, I didn't. I'll probably never get those answers and somehow, it's starting to click that it's ok that I don't have them. They're alcoholics sweetie - alcohol is what they know and we tried to come in between them and the only way they know. I don't think it's so much that they don't really love us, but more that they had to do what they had to do to be able to continue with their addiction. It's an addiction and a compulsion. There is so much denial surrounding it that until, and if, they ever get help, that denial pushes every logical thing and answer away from them.
I was also abandoned by my parents, and believe me when I tell you that it IS a part of the feelings and emotions you're going through. It hurts like hell to come to terms with it, but slowly, you must. Eventually, you and I have to work through these feelings because if we don't, we're going to end up right back in the same place. No need to rush, but don't ever think that it isn't a huge part of this. I will be the first to admit that I am TERRIFIED of abandonment... I'm getting better and there are times, just recently, that I'm actually beginning to enjoy being alone, but oh boy is it a process. But, with this hard and frightening process comes healing. And with healing comes hope. And there is hope Butterfly. If I can do this, anyone, and I mean anyone can!
You're ok. You're going to get through this. I promise it won't feel like it at times, but I also promise that little by little, once you start believing in yourself just a little and accept that we can't win over this disease and can only do the next best thing, which is to look out and learn to care about ourselves, just a little at a time, you'll eventually realize that you ARE making progress and eventually, that progress will feel pretty good.
It isn't you. There is nothing fundamentally wrong or unlovable about you. This is their disease and this is what this disease does. It is brutal to watch it, but sadly, we can't control it, nor can we fix it, nor can we convince them to fix it. It just isn't possible. I've been trying since I was a child and trust me, I've tried everything I know and pulled out every damn trick in the book, but it just doesn't work. Only they can do this and sadly, that may never happen. Acceptance is not a fun thing for many of us...it's actually kind of awful, especially in the very beginning. But, it has to be done.
Hang in there Butterfly... just keep trying to take small steps forward. Small steps eventually start getting you headed in the right direction. They really, truly will.
Gigantic hugs!
Butterfly, I was MORTIFIED, DEVASTATED and utterly ENRAGED that my ex fiance had the audacity to choose alcohol, increasingly failing health (at 30!) and the dangers of living an alcoholic life over living life with me, his fiance, in our beautiful home, with our fabulous dogs and my perfect little 5 year old daughter that he thought the world of. I was ANGRY, beyond hurt and absolutely reeling after I gave him the choice of getting help and staying or not getting help and leaving...and he chose to leave to continue drinking!! I was completely stunned. Shattered. I could NOT believe it. This was the man that swore he couldn't live without me, said he loved me a million and one times a day to the point of annoyance, said that I saved his life and to boot, we were planning the wedding of our dreams! How DARE he! This wasn't the way I carefully planned this out in my head and did my best to make sure it played out exactly how it was supposed to! He was SUPPOSED to stop drinking and plead for help, not choose alcohol and agree to leave me!
Butterfly, I so get it, I swear I do. I did this too. I NEEDED answers! I had to have them to move forward. I convinced myself of this. But, I didn't. I'll probably never get those answers and somehow, it's starting to click that it's ok that I don't have them. They're alcoholics sweetie - alcohol is what they know and we tried to come in between them and the only way they know. I don't think it's so much that they don't really love us, but more that they had to do what they had to do to be able to continue with their addiction. It's an addiction and a compulsion. There is so much denial surrounding it that until, and if, they ever get help, that denial pushes every logical thing and answer away from them.
I was also abandoned by my parents, and believe me when I tell you that it IS a part of the feelings and emotions you're going through. It hurts like hell to come to terms with it, but slowly, you must. Eventually, you and I have to work through these feelings because if we don't, we're going to end up right back in the same place. No need to rush, but don't ever think that it isn't a huge part of this. I will be the first to admit that I am TERRIFIED of abandonment... I'm getting better and there are times, just recently, that I'm actually beginning to enjoy being alone, but oh boy is it a process. But, with this hard and frightening process comes healing. And with healing comes hope. And there is hope Butterfly. If I can do this, anyone, and I mean anyone can!
You're ok. You're going to get through this. I promise it won't feel like it at times, but I also promise that little by little, once you start believing in yourself just a little and accept that we can't win over this disease and can only do the next best thing, which is to look out and learn to care about ourselves, just a little at a time, you'll eventually realize that you ARE making progress and eventually, that progress will feel pretty good.
It isn't you. There is nothing fundamentally wrong or unlovable about you. This is their disease and this is what this disease does. It is brutal to watch it, but sadly, we can't control it, nor can we fix it, nor can we convince them to fix it. It just isn't possible. I've been trying since I was a child and trust me, I've tried everything I know and pulled out every damn trick in the book, but it just doesn't work. Only they can do this and sadly, that may never happen. Acceptance is not a fun thing for many of us...it's actually kind of awful, especially in the very beginning. But, it has to be done.
Hang in there Butterfly... just keep trying to take small steps forward. Small steps eventually start getting you headed in the right direction. They really, truly will.
Gigantic hugs!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
butterfly....since this isn't the first time he ever left you.....nor even the longest he was gone.....maybe it would help to write down the number of times he left before.....from the year you were married til now....like
like a chronological record of what this "marriage" has really LOOKED LIKE.
the facts. the inarguable, undeniable FACTS. I think you need to get out of that hurricane in your head..........
like a chronological record of what this "marriage" has really LOOKED LIKE.
the facts. the inarguable, undeniable FACTS. I think you need to get out of that hurricane in your head..........
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by lillamy 
I have a kid with an eating disorder, and we actually talk about "Daughter" and "Ed" separately. Daughter wants help, wants to get healthy -- Ed is like a demonic possession refusing to let her.
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BPD Treatment - Psychotherapy - Schema-Focused Therapy (SFT) | Borderline Personality Disorder Clinician Resource Centre
The major modes that comprise BPD are labelled as: (1) the abandoned and abused child, (2) the angry and impulsive child, (3) the detached protector, (4) the punitive parent, and (5) the healthy adult (Kellogg & Young, 2006)
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hmmm, Butterfly. I hate to be a Master of the Obvious . . . but.
Yunno the part about "he would never leave you . . . ."
It seems he never really HAS left you. You keep part of him around and around in you.
Unfortunately if may not be the good parts, else they would not likely be causing you pain.
Understanding and feeling pain can be okay thing at times. Sometimes it is delayed, so we can handle it, but if it is there now, it may be time to understand it.
Yunno the part about "he would never leave you . . . ."
It seems he never really HAS left you. You keep part of him around and around in you.
Unfortunately if may not be the good parts, else they would not likely be causing you pain.
Understanding and feeling pain can be okay thing at times. Sometimes it is delayed, so we can handle it, but if it is there now, it may be time to understand it.
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Hammer you are right I do keep him around me.
I feel so rejected by him and hurt by his actions and how he has treated me and I feel that it's m fault and I don't know how to move past that.
I find it harder when I have had contact even his text the other niht sent me into a tail spin as these feelings come front and centre yet when I have no contact I can rationalise. I know it is nothing I have done, it's not my fault he left, his addiction is stronger and he ignores me and says he wants no contact because he doesn't want to have to face up to his actions.
His text the other night was designed to make me feel sorry for him and to test how the land lies, could he have contact with me without me bringing up his drinking or our marriage and as soon as it became obvious that it wasn't going to be that way he again says I won't contact you again as I just upset you, I think that's what dandylion meant when she said he pulling all the manevours, maybe I don't know!! Manipulating me.
Any contact and I become so focused on him and what he's doing and why he is doing it, does he love me does he really mean what he says . Yesterday I realised it doesn't matter why, how or what his feelings are towards me he wants to drink and isn't prepared to stop, his actions have made that clear, for me I think I become so focused on him so I don't have to look at why I look to him to validate me, that Iam good enough, I deserve love and to be treated with respect but hey guess what i am good enough I do deserve love and respect and I don't need anyone to tell me any different or to validate that I am a good person or to fix me, only I can do that. It was him who wasn't good enough for me, it was him who didn't want the responsibilities of family life, a father or a husband that's for him to live with.
I realised yesterday that my home life is so much more peaceful, my kids can play with the dog without him shouting when he got annoyed, there's no shouting because the kids didn't put the lid back on the tooth paste or the dishes weren't done or they were messing about and he became annoyed, even my dog is more relaxed and is no longer in fear that should she wet during the night she knows she won't be kicked. I don't have to,live with the worry whether if he has a drink tonight will he sneak out in the middle of the night or keep drinking tomorrow, I no longer feel periods of anger particularly when he decided he wasn't going to drink and not know why and I no longer feel as anxious as I don't have to worry about him and when the next drama would start. Yes I feel lonely, rejected and hurt but that is what I will work on.
Thank you for reading I'm not even sure if it makes any sense but I needed to get it out.
I feel so rejected by him and hurt by his actions and how he has treated me and I feel that it's m fault and I don't know how to move past that.
I find it harder when I have had contact even his text the other niht sent me into a tail spin as these feelings come front and centre yet when I have no contact I can rationalise. I know it is nothing I have done, it's not my fault he left, his addiction is stronger and he ignores me and says he wants no contact because he doesn't want to have to face up to his actions.
His text the other night was designed to make me feel sorry for him and to test how the land lies, could he have contact with me without me bringing up his drinking or our marriage and as soon as it became obvious that it wasn't going to be that way he again says I won't contact you again as I just upset you, I think that's what dandylion meant when she said he pulling all the manevours, maybe I don't know!! Manipulating me.
Any contact and I become so focused on him and what he's doing and why he is doing it, does he love me does he really mean what he says . Yesterday I realised it doesn't matter why, how or what his feelings are towards me he wants to drink and isn't prepared to stop, his actions have made that clear, for me I think I become so focused on him so I don't have to look at why I look to him to validate me, that Iam good enough, I deserve love and to be treated with respect but hey guess what i am good enough I do deserve love and respect and I don't need anyone to tell me any different or to validate that I am a good person or to fix me, only I can do that. It was him who wasn't good enough for me, it was him who didn't want the responsibilities of family life, a father or a husband that's for him to live with.
I realised yesterday that my home life is so much more peaceful, my kids can play with the dog without him shouting when he got annoyed, there's no shouting because the kids didn't put the lid back on the tooth paste or the dishes weren't done or they were messing about and he became annoyed, even my dog is more relaxed and is no longer in fear that should she wet during the night she knows she won't be kicked. I don't have to,live with the worry whether if he has a drink tonight will he sneak out in the middle of the night or keep drinking tomorrow, I no longer feel periods of anger particularly when he decided he wasn't going to drink and not know why and I no longer feel as anxious as I don't have to worry about him and when the next drama would start. Yes I feel lonely, rejected and hurt but that is what I will work on.
Thank you for reading I'm not even sure if it makes any sense but I needed to get it out.
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