how do you know if they've been sober?
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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how do you know if they've been sober?
I've read a lot of comments on here about giving your ABF a second chance after 6 months to 1 year of sobriety. So, if you tell him those are the conditions if we are to date again, and he calls 6 months later, how do you know if it's the truth? When people try this, how do they get proof to back up this claim? Do you ask to see his 6 month chip? any thoughts. thanks.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
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There are a lot of folks with vast more experience than me, but I can tell you being married to one I can hardly tell when my AH has been drinking. I don't believe you can ever find 100% assurance the A you care for won't drink again. My AH has proven that to me, and from I've read it has been proven to many others, too. I think you will have to decide if you want to take that chance, or if you want to cut your losses before more time, energy, and emotion are invested in this individual and move on to a healthier relationship down the road.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,431
Originally Posted by biminiblue 
There is obviously no way to prove sobriety.
Relationships have to be built on trust.
With that said, recovery looks like recovery. You will know if there has been a psychic change.
Relationships have to be built on trust.
With that said, recovery looks like recovery. You will know if there has been a psychic change.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Its real easy for me to tell as my XA ALWAYS ends up in the hospital, jail or some other horrible fiasco within days and weeks of relapse. His trail of insanity and destruction is like a tornado.
Its been 4 years and he is still working on a date. The last attempt he made it 8 months and then drank for 3 months. Ended up in the hospital from drinking and they discovered he had severe heart problems and he was operated on. Got sober and is now 2 months sober with 10 to go for this elusive date.
I have no idea how you would know if a functioning alcoholic actually had been sober... I never had one of those!
Its been 4 years and he is still working on a date. The last attempt he made it 8 months and then drank for 3 months. Ended up in the hospital from drinking and they discovered he had severe heart problems and he was operated on. Got sober and is now 2 months sober with 10 to go for this elusive date.
I have no idea how you would know if a functioning alcoholic actually had been sober... I never had one of those!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
carmen, I have to ask. From your previous posts I heard NOTHING about his wanting to be sober. Have I missed something? Because if he hasn't expressed or demonstrated (preferably the latter) something to indicate that he's committed to sobriety, I think you may be stuck in wishful thinking.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 230
I wish I knew how to tell. I'm not at that point with AH where he's been even trying to be sober or isn't currently under the same roof. I can see how it would be hard to trust what he says.
I can tell when AH has been drinking and is on his way. I just wish I knew when he crosses into blackout mode so I could figure out that I can send him off to bed and even if he's all cranky and mad at me he won't remember it anyways.
I can tell when AH has been drinking and is on his way. I just wish I knew when he crosses into blackout mode so I could figure out that I can send him off to bed and even if he's all cranky and mad at me he won't remember it anyways.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by Stung
Because sober people who are working a program are generally night and day from people who are not sober and not working a program.
Body language, attitude, physical appearance. EVERYTHING is different.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,548
My alcoholic husband passed away almost five years ago. When I was ready to date again, I made a vow to myself: no smokers, no alcoholics.
People say you can't help who you fall in love with. I would respectfully disagree. You're going to fall in love with someone you spend a lot of time with. The longer you spend, the harder it will be to end the relationship, as your lives become more and more enmeshed. My philosophy now is:
The minute you see a deal-breaker, it's time to go.
There weren't many men I dated more than once or twice. Sometimes their decision, sometimes mine. The one man I did date longer, there were tell-tale signs within a month that drinking was a problem. 1) He invited me down for dinner, saying he was making me my favorite sandwich, and screwed it up. How do you screw up a sandwich, you may ask? Well, it was a Reuben. Though he had all week to scan the internet for instructions on how to assemble one, he spread the dressing on the outside and grilled it, which made for a rather messy, dry-ish sandwich. He had plenty of wine available.
2) We skypped a lot, and he always had a drink in hand.
3) We went to dinner at a diner near my house one night. He asked if they served wine. When told they didn't, he asked if he could buy a bottle and bring it in. A restaurant meal takes about an hour, maybe, and we were literally five minutes from my house. he was anxious about the availability of booze.
I would not become romantically involved with someone who was previously an alcoholic unless he had had years of sobriety. Several years, like twenty. I'm just not doing it again. Current Beau averages maybe one drink a week. I've known him two years and I don't recall he's ever had more than one drink in an evening. My home is a peaceful place to recharge. For years it was a place where I just had to deal with more s--t.
I loved my husband, (still do, in a way) but I'm never going through that again.
People say you can't help who you fall in love with. I would respectfully disagree. You're going to fall in love with someone you spend a lot of time with. The longer you spend, the harder it will be to end the relationship, as your lives become more and more enmeshed. My philosophy now is:
The minute you see a deal-breaker, it's time to go.
There weren't many men I dated more than once or twice. Sometimes their decision, sometimes mine. The one man I did date longer, there were tell-tale signs within a month that drinking was a problem. 1) He invited me down for dinner, saying he was making me my favorite sandwich, and screwed it up. How do you screw up a sandwich, you may ask? Well, it was a Reuben. Though he had all week to scan the internet for instructions on how to assemble one, he spread the dressing on the outside and grilled it, which made for a rather messy, dry-ish sandwich. He had plenty of wine available.
2) We skypped a lot, and he always had a drink in hand.
3) We went to dinner at a diner near my house one night. He asked if they served wine. When told they didn't, he asked if he could buy a bottle and bring it in. A restaurant meal takes about an hour, maybe, and we were literally five minutes from my house. he was anxious about the availability of booze.
I would not become romantically involved with someone who was previously an alcoholic unless he had had years of sobriety. Several years, like twenty. I'm just not doing it again. Current Beau averages maybe one drink a week. I've known him two years and I don't recall he's ever had more than one drink in an evening. My home is a peaceful place to recharge. For years it was a place where I just had to deal with more s--t.
I loved my husband, (still do, in a way) but I'm never going through that again.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Seren
I have always believed that the hallmarks of true recovery are honesty, transparency, and humility.
You have those -- you have everything.
Absent those -- you have nothing. Or at least nothing you want.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
WOW. Velma -- you are smokin hawt. 
Taking notes . . . .
. . . . . People say you can't help who you fall in love with. I would respectfully disagree.
. . . . years of sobriety. Several years, like twenty. I'm just not doing it again.
. . . . My home is a peaceful place to recharge. For years it was a place where I just had to deal with more s--t.
I loved my husband, (still do, in a way) but I'm never going through that again. WOW.
Taking notes . . . .
Originally Posted by velma929
. . . . . People say you can't help who you fall in love with. I would respectfully disagree.
. . . . years of sobriety. Several years, like twenty. I'm just not doing it again.
. . . . My home is a peaceful place to recharge. For years it was a place where I just had to deal with more s--t.
I loved my husband, (still do, in a way) but I'm never going through that again.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Seren and Hammer are spot on, in my opinion.
My A was always a very secretive drinker, and it was incredibly difficult to tell if he had been at it or not. When I was new here, people told me that I'd know if he was actually working his recovery or not, that I'd be able to clearly see the changes, and it wouldn't be simply a matter of whether I could tell if he'd been drinking. At the time, that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Now, it makes all the sense in the world. The lack of those changes, even though he seems to be sober and going to AA meetings, is what has led me to finally file for divorce.
I started a thread similar to yours here over a year ago, asking similar questions. One of the answers I received was quite powerful, and I'll share it w/you:
Ya wanna know the SECRET to whether someone is serious about recovery or not? When they stop TALKING and start DOING. When they abandon the alcoholic oath:
I'm Sorry
Please Forgive Me
It will NEVER happen AGAIN
Talk is just squawk....noise to diffuse and disturb....
We live on a lake and have ospreys and eagles that come 'round. When they are on the hunt, there is NO doubt about their intentions...they hover above, they swoop and swirl and then DIVE after their prey. It is magnificent and silent. They have a purpose and have no NEED to announce their plan. They are unconcerned with the world around them....for the eagle there are always the attendant "murder" of crows, dive bombing, harassing, relentless...they are honed in on their goal.
Recovery is the osprey, tucking its wing in close to its body, a missile now, a projectile diving in a straight line towards the water, seeing beneath the surface to the fish.
You will know if he's in recovery, and it won't be just a matter of knowing whether he's drinking or not. And like Lexie said, if he hasn't shown any signs of wanting recovery, all these questions and answers are for naught anyway...
Stay strong.
My A was always a very secretive drinker, and it was incredibly difficult to tell if he had been at it or not. When I was new here, people told me that I'd know if he was actually working his recovery or not, that I'd be able to clearly see the changes, and it wouldn't be simply a matter of whether I could tell if he'd been drinking. At the time, that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Now, it makes all the sense in the world. The lack of those changes, even though he seems to be sober and going to AA meetings, is what has led me to finally file for divorce.
I started a thread similar to yours here over a year ago, asking similar questions. One of the answers I received was quite powerful, and I'll share it w/you:
Ya wanna know the SECRET to whether someone is serious about recovery or not? When they stop TALKING and start DOING. When they abandon the alcoholic oath:
I'm Sorry
Please Forgive Me
It will NEVER happen AGAIN
Talk is just squawk....noise to diffuse and disturb....
We live on a lake and have ospreys and eagles that come 'round. When they are on the hunt, there is NO doubt about their intentions...they hover above, they swoop and swirl and then DIVE after their prey. It is magnificent and silent. They have a purpose and have no NEED to announce their plan. They are unconcerned with the world around them....for the eagle there are always the attendant "murder" of crows, dive bombing, harassing, relentless...they are honed in on their goal.
Recovery is the osprey, tucking its wing in close to its body, a missile now, a projectile diving in a straight line towards the water, seeing beneath the surface to the fish.
You will know if he's in recovery, and it won't be just a matter of knowing whether he's drinking or not. And like Lexie said, if he hasn't shown any signs of wanting recovery, all these questions and answers are for naught anyway...
Stay strong.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by Chillly
Most likely, they aren't
Make him take a Urine Analysis Test?
Make him take a Urine Analysis Test?
but
nothing wrong with wanting a urine test
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why is urine EtG detection any better than a blood or breath alcohol test?
EtG can be found in the urine much longer than alcohol in the blood or breath. After a few drinks, EtG can be present in the urine up to 48 hours, and sometimes up to 72 or hours or longer if the drinking is heavier.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
put him on Antabuse and you know he will not be drinking
I have seen ones drink on this -- it is not pretty !!
M-Bob
When alcoholics don’t trust they'll stay away from a drink, they take a pill that makes the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. But those drawbacks come at a price.
Offer someone a pill that will give them blinding headaches followed by crippling nausea, blurred vision and, in some cases, pounding heart and most people would turn it down.
Alcoholics are not like most people.
In fact, many newly sober alcoholics take Antabuse (also known as Disulfiram), a drug that was discovered in the 1920s when researchers were looking for a way to kill intestinal parasite. When they tried the drug on themselves, scientists discovered awful side effects when they drank alcohol—effects so severe they began to use the drug as a way to prevent alcoholics from ever lifting a bottle to their lips.
MM
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I don't think I'd care to invite the alcoholic into my home and observe him in the bathroom while he pees into a cup.
I think it is all totally academic. If someone is really recovered, he won't be showing up at the door looking like he needs a drink. He won't ACT like he really needs a drink. He will have successes in his life that he can talk about.
Personally, if I had resumed contact with someone on the condition that he had been sober for at least a year, I would go VERY slowly and see how he's living, who he's hanging out with, how he's behaving, and what problems he's dealing with, before committing to more than dating--before sleeping with him, before picking out china patterns with him, before planning a future beyond the next week with him.
I think it is all totally academic. If someone is really recovered, he won't be showing up at the door looking like he needs a drink. He won't ACT like he really needs a drink. He will have successes in his life that he can talk about.
Personally, if I had resumed contact with someone on the condition that he had been sober for at least a year, I would go VERY slowly and see how he's living, who he's hanging out with, how he's behaving, and what problems he's dealing with, before committing to more than dating--before sleeping with him, before picking out china patterns with him, before planning a future beyond the next week with him.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Originally Posted by carmen303
I've read a lot of comments on here about giving your ABF a second chance after 6 months to 1 year of sobriety. So, if you tell him those are the conditions if we are to date again, and he calls 6 months later, how do you know if it's the truth? When people try this, how do they get proof to back up this claim? Do you ask to see his 6 month chip? any thoughts. thanks.
It's just that people don't want to hear that it's hopeless and their "soul mate" might not ever quit. I understand. It's depressing and can be a real blow for the self-esteem. It was for me before I started my own recovery and began to understand that his choices weren't a reflection of me or my worth.
So I say, go to Alanon, work your program for six months or a year, then see what the alcoholic or addict is doing. Usually they are still drinking/using and have moved on to a new enabler. But by then the person who was waiting is hopefully in a much healthier frame of mind and can see that they dodged a bullet.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
Well, when I tell people to wait and see for six months or a year, it's really more of a tool to help them detach. Most alcoholics aren't going to maintain sobriety for that time frame just to keep a girlfriend around, especially when they have never expressed any desire for recovery.
It's just that people don't want to hear that it's hopeless and their "soul mate" might not ever quit. I understand. It's depressing and can be a real blow for the self-esteem. It was for me before I started my own recovery and began to understand that his choices weren't a reflection of me or my worth.
So I say, go to Alanon, work your program for six months or a year, then see what the alcoholic or addict is doing. Usually they are still drinking/using and have moved on to a new enabler. But by then the person who was waiting is hopefully in a much healthier frame of mind and can see that they dodged a bullet.
It's just that people don't want to hear that it's hopeless and their "soul mate" might not ever quit. I understand. It's depressing and can be a real blow for the self-esteem. It was for me before I started my own recovery and began to understand that his choices weren't a reflection of me or my worth.
So I say, go to Alanon, work your program for six months or a year, then see what the alcoholic or addict is doing. Usually they are still drinking/using and have moved on to a new enabler. But by then the person who was waiting is hopefully in a much healthier frame of mind and can see that they dodged a bullet.
A year is a long time. When I married my first husband, we had had a brief "hiatus" in the relationship (not a definite breakup), during which time he went ON HIS OWN to AA and committed to recovery. I had read somewhere (Ann Landers or Dear Abby or someplace) that the first year was critical, so we waited till he had been sober a year before we got married. This man has now been continuously sober almost 35 years.
I wish I'd taken that advice before marrying the second alcoholic. He almost died from drinking, and I was sure that he would NEVER go back to drinking after narrowly cheating death. I was wrong--he went back to drinking a few months later. I believe I smelled it on him when I went out West (where we were moving) just before the wedding. I ignored my instincts, and within a few short months he was drinking as much as before, had lost his job, etc. The signs were all there, but I didn't want to see them.
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