Out of State rehab?
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by camerajen 
well the one thing I know is that they love you more than life itself so remember that and gain strength from that.
I have a lot in common with your daughter based on the very few sentences I read. She keeps asking to go back to detox. Oh how I know that feeling. No one wants to go through the pain of it. The one thing with my detox though....I could die from mine. And when i'm out in the field playing with my disease...I'm drinking a handle of vodka per day. Just to sustain. You wouldn't even think I was drunk. Did I mention that I am diagnosed with severe congestive heart failure? My heart is at 30%...
Your daughter wont die from coming off of heroin without detox.....but if you're around and she's doing it....I bet it probably looks like she is hanging on by the size of floss string and you can see it unwinding.....
(i'm 30 years old, btw)
I honestly am not sure, based on your reactions, that you're even ready to comprehend what I am saying. Please find an alanon meeting and remember that you should keep trying to find one where you relate to people. There are so many families suffering and its because of someone like me. You can go to one alanon and straight up think they are stuck up snobs.....and then another you will fit right in. Same thing with our AA's
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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I have to go now, for the first time in a week I am leaving my hotel to go with a realtor in hopes of renting a house. I'm renting it ASAP and as soon as I get the deal done, i'm hoping to go to 2 weeks of rehab. Simply to clear the fog, get back on the medications I need to (non-narcotic) and then paying a moving company to move the stuff in from the house I sold because I lost it due to my addiction.
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Originally Posted by NeverEasyToBe
You can go to one alanon and straight up think they are stuck up snobs.....and then another you will fit right in. Same thing with our AA's
Stuck up snobs and all.
We had come up from the Deep Hood South Side of Dallas. Our Alanon down in South Side was a mess. Mrs. Hammer called the area the "Land of Missing Body Parts." Because everyone down there was messed up in one way or another. Junk man next door to us was missing an eye and only one leg worked right. Other folks missing fingers, ears, teeth . . . on and on.
Our (MY in My Mind) Alanon looked the part, too. Was in an old bombed out Krogers Grocery Store. When I could not listen, I would count whether there were more ceiling tiles or floor tiles missing. The furniture was all salvaged from dumpsters. Lazy boys, a couch, 70's "mod," even a school desk. The people were mixed, too. Black, brown, white, gay, preachers, school teachers, and the goofy white hippy folks (us).
I LOVED it and I LOVED them. That was MY Alanon.
When we came up to the Lily White side on the Far North side of Dallas -- things and people did not look like that. The chairs all matched. The people were all white like me. With neat hair cuts. And white folk attitudes. I did not like that. So I did not go. Figured it was "disloyal" to MY Alanon.
After things got really crazy, and Mrs. Hammer was going over the edge and we went homeless when she was winding up towards Rehab . . . I changed REAL quick. Any Alanon is MY Alanon. All good. Now I hit meetings all across Texas. Only bad meetings are the ones I miss.
Turned out I was the snob.
Hey camerajen -- I now help do the Alanon Part of Family Day at the Local Rehab -- You know what I tell them?
There is ONLY ONE Group of People that Alanon CANNOT Help.
You know who that One Group of People is?
The People who will not go.
Do not be that fool, like me.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by camerajen
We have been dealing with my 19 year old daughters heroin addiction for two years now. When it all began my insurance made an exception and paid for a 30 day stay at a wonderful youth rehab facility in Yakima wa. We have Blue Cross insurance and they don't pay for residential, only for detox, so it was wonderful they agreed to pay for it. We had a good year after that and then she began using again. She went through detox again and Blue Cross made an exception once again for rehab, but after one day in the adult portion (which she begged to be in) she left treatment and hopped on a greyhound bus back home to Seattle. During all of this she pawned everything she could get her hands on, sold my jewelry etc. we have gone through seriously maybe 5 more detoxes as of now. In, out, using, a cycle. I forgot to mention that in there somewhere she took the naltrexone shot which worked great until her "sober friends" told her it was a bandaid so she went off it. It has cost us $875 co pay for each detox and we are flat broke. She's been calling around for another detox and has found a broker or something who is telling us we can send her to Spencer Recovery Center in Palm Springs. He says the detox potion would cost us an $875 co pay and the rehab portion would be $1500 out of pocket. He said the use blue cross somehow but get paid with whatever blue cross would pay. It seems weird because I know blue cross doesn't pay residential. We don't have the 3k to make this happen. The best I can offer her is one more detox and sober living housing here in washington. Is there any more I can do? Please help me with any thoughts you might have.
My husband was addicted to opiate based pain meds… I just wanted to share a few things..
Detox isn’t treatment, in most cases its just medical assisted help so she can better deal with the symptoms of withdrawal. The most a person usually gets is brief counseling to help with referrals and information about next steps.
Your daughter using Naltrexone was a good thing IMO.. My husband used it for a couple of months while he was in rehab and undergoing therapy… it helped clear his mind so he could focus on gaining the CBT skills he needed to work through his addiction. Im very sorry to hear she went off of it, especially due to her “sober friends”. I would not want my daughter hanging around a group that used peer pressure to get her off of a prescribed medication.
We faced the same issue with the treatment ladder… generally less invasive treatments are recommended as a first line.. but if those treatments fail then often insurance will bump up their coverage. I do know the rehab we used was quite versed in dealing with the insurance companies. My husband was inpatient for 90 days (his first treatment of any kind) and they ended up paying for most of it even though we still had a lot out of pocket.
Also, not sure by reading .. but it looks like your daughter had one 30 day treatment? Then walked out of the second.. was it because she was in the adult portion? My opinion 30 days treatment is just a start… there are actual guidelines presented by the medical community on treatment..National Institute of Drug Abuse has a great website with a section specifically for family .. they define the recommended treatment protocol.. to start it needs to address the specific needs of your daughter that can be best determined by a doctor.. and the treatment should always be focused on proven evidence based treatments including various cognitive behavior therapies, individual counseling with licensed professionals to address her specific issues, and treatment of any coexisting conditions if there are any.. Support of family is also considered very important especially in dealing with teens and young adults.
I will attach a link or two.. and you can read some if you would like. There is also a treatment finder on their site from Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services.. low cost options, inpatient, outpatient, and licensed therapists often will work on a sliding scale…
Principles of Adolescent Substance Use Disorder Treatment | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)
Introduction | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)
It is very important that you find your own balance in all of this because you cant help her if your not helping and caring for yourself... If its possible I would suggest a personalized therapist… at least for a few sessions.. if your daughter does enter an in/out patient program there will often be programs for family members also. Its worth checking just in case…
Prayers going up for all of you this evening....
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Had not thought about it, but my daughter now advises me that it was foolish of me to have paid for Mrs. Hammer's (her Mom) Rehab.
Mrs. Hammer's sponsor had been to the same Rehab, but had to work about 6 months cleaning bathrooms and making beds in motels to pay for it. And came out relatively well and humbled (a Very Good Thing) for the experience.
On the other hand, I paid fully for Mrs. Hammer's and she came back a totally ungrateful, lying, and backstabbing brat -- to me and the kids.
jmho. A's are very resourceful. If they want and need Rehab, it is best to let them take care of themselves.
Mrs. Hammer's sponsor had been to the same Rehab, but had to work about 6 months cleaning bathrooms and making beds in motels to pay for it. And came out relatively well and humbled (a Very Good Thing) for the experience.
On the other hand, I paid fully for Mrs. Hammer's and she came back a totally ungrateful, lying, and backstabbing brat -- to me and the kids.
jmho. A's are very resourceful. If they want and need Rehab, it is best to let them take care of themselves.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by allforcnm
Camerajen, My husband was addicted to opiate based pain meds… I just wanted to share a few things.. Detox isn’t treatment, in most cases its just medical assisted help so she can better deal with the symptoms of withdrawal. The most a person usually gets is brief counseling to help with referrals and information about next steps. Your daughter using Naltrexone was a good thing IMO.. My husband used it for a couple of months while he was in rehab and undergoing therapy… it helped clear his mind so he could focus on gaining the CBT skills he needed to work through his addiction. Im very sorry to hear she went off of it, especially due to her “sober friends”. I would not want my daughter hanging around a group that used peer pressure to get her off of a prescribed medication. We faced the same issue with the treatment ladder… generally less invasive treatments are recommended as a first line.. but if those treatments fail then often insurance will bump up their coverage. I do know the rehab we used was quite versed in dealing with the insurance companies. My husband was inpatient for 90 days (his first treatment of any kind) and they ended up paying for most of it even though we still had a lot out of pocket. Also, not sure by reading .. but it looks like your daughter had one 30 day treatment? Then walked out of the second.. was it because she was in the adult portion? My opinion 30 days treatment is just a start… there are actual guidelines presented by the medical community on treatment..National Institute of Drug Abuse has a great website with a section specifically for family .. they define the recommended treatment protocol.. to start it needs to address the specific needs of your daughter that can be best determined by a doctor.. and the treatment should always be focused on proven evidence based treatments including various cognitive behavior therapies, individual counseling with licensed professionals to address her specific issues, and treatment of any coexisting conditions if there are any.. Support of family is also considered very important especially in dealing with teens and young adults. I will attach a link or two.. and you can read some if you would like. There is also a treatment finder on their site from Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services.. low cost options, inpatient, outpatient, and licensed therapists often will work on a sliding scale… Principles of Adolescent Substance Use Disorder Treatment | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) Introduction | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) It is very important that you find your own balance in all of this because you cant help her if your not helping and caring for yourself... If its possible I would suggest a personalized therapist… at least for a few sessions.. if your daughter does enter an in/out patient program there will often be programs for family members also. Its worth checking just in case… Prayers going up for all of you this evening....
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by Hammer
Had not thought about it, but my daughter now advises me that it was foolish of me to have paid for Mrs. Hammer's (her Mom) Rehab.
jmho. A's are very resourceful. If they want and need Rehab, it is best to let them take care of themselves.
jmho. A's are very resourceful. If they want and need Rehab, it is best to let them take care of themselves.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by camerajen
thank you for the advice and links. I'm going to see if my insurance will make an exception again for another 30 day session. They would actually be saving themselves a ton of money because every time she goes to hospital detox it costs them around $20k. I will check out the links. Thank you!
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My situation is different -- my DD isn't an addict, but suffers from a bunch of mental illnesses. She's underage, and we've built a solid network of support for her. The crux is that she has to choose to turn to her support network when she needs it. The last time she didn't, I got to visit her in the psych ER where a police officer was sitting next to her telling me he didn't know yet if they were going to press charges against her.
DD was supremely ashamed and cried the entire time. I told her that she had stepped over a border and was now on the other side of what I could help her with. That she had chosen to ignore the warning signs and gone off the rails in a way that placed her solidly beyond my reach.
And then I cried all the way home.
It's still touch and go with her. Some days, I've got solid hope that she's on track to take care of herself. Other days, it's not looking very good. But I'm slowly making peace with the idea that I can't force her to use the support system she has if she chooses not to.
Another story: My sponsor's son was also a heroin addict. She helped him out in numerous ways -- rehabs, letting him live with her, paying for treatment with drugs, etc. Eventually, she decided to stop. He was living on the streets, making money turning tricks, for about six months. Then one day he knocked on her door and said he couldn't do it anymore. That he just wanted a ride to the ER. He was ready to get clean. She told him "this is the last thing I ever do for you, and if you don't get clean this time, don't bother coming to my house ever again."
He's been clean for... I believe five years now, is in college, and recently got married to a girl he met in NA.
It can happen. But it won't happen until your DD wants to get clean.
DD was supremely ashamed and cried the entire time. I told her that she had stepped over a border and was now on the other side of what I could help her with. That she had chosen to ignore the warning signs and gone off the rails in a way that placed her solidly beyond my reach.
And then I cried all the way home.
It's still touch and go with her. Some days, I've got solid hope that she's on track to take care of herself. Other days, it's not looking very good. But I'm slowly making peace with the idea that I can't force her to use the support system she has if she chooses not to.
Another story: My sponsor's son was also a heroin addict. She helped him out in numerous ways -- rehabs, letting him live with her, paying for treatment with drugs, etc. Eventually, she decided to stop. He was living on the streets, making money turning tricks, for about six months. Then one day he knocked on her door and said he couldn't do it anymore. That he just wanted a ride to the ER. He was ready to get clean. She told him "this is the last thing I ever do for you, and if you don't get clean this time, don't bother coming to my house ever again."
He's been clean for... I believe five years now, is in college, and recently got married to a girl he met in NA.
It can happen. But it won't happen until your DD wants to get clean.
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As hard as it may be, you cannot do it for her. Only she can make the necessary change. Do not lose hope but please try and focus on yourself. YOU are important and deserve to be happy and healthy!
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Camerajen so sorry you are going through thiis.
You have gotten some really good advice here. I understand the feeling of needing to help. I also understand after dealing with my own A that helping doesn't help most of the time. Most of the time helping makes it worse for everyone. No matter what you do your daughter r is going to have to figure this out for herself. Each time you move heaven and earth you aren't helping her you are hurting her. It's a strange concept but one that is true nonetheless.
I see you are going forward with trying to arrange another rehab. I am going to make some suggestions other than Dont, which is the right answer.
Take a long look at your daughters history has this process worked before? No. Why do you think it will work this time? What is different about this time than any other time? Are you feeling that if you do not that you are a bad parent? Do you think that you are responsible for your child's life as an adult that you have the ability to stop bad things from happening to her that she is doing to herself? You must know you cannot stop her.
When an addict or an Alcoholic has decided to do something about it THEY will do it. It doesn't have to be a fancy rehab. It can be (and often is). In AA or Nar Anon, or salvation army, or the myriad of programs that are free. I suggest you look at coming at this at a different angle because your plan is simply repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.
You need to set aome boundaries. Your child needs, desperately needs, to understand her actions have consequences. She needs to know that her addiction will not be tolerated anymore. Why not lay down some boundaries first before you make arrangement to send her off again? Tell her she needs to prove to you first that she is dedicated now to sobering up. How about 90 meetings in 90 days and then we will discuss the possibility of rehab at that time but it ain't happening otherwise?
How are you doing? How is your marriage? Do you had other children? If we let it a loved ones addiction can Destroy us financially, emotional and sometimes physically. You do not owe your child to destroy yourself over her choices. You do owe her to be accountable for her actions.
Addiction is scary for the addict. No one wants to be one yet part of the mental cycle of perpetuating the addiction is knowing that there are codependent and enablers that will fix all of most problems. Trust this, your daughter has thought in her head "what is the worst case scenario" and comforted herself that no matter what pickleshe gets herself into you and Dad will fix it. This behavior has been proven to her several times already. If she goes to jail...you will get her out. If she has no money....you will provide. If she gets sick....you will heal her. If she has no place to live...you will let her stay with you. If things get bad enough and the situation is tense she can go to detox/rehab again....and you will provide it. All the while understand that her actions are about protecting her addiction. Her addiction comes first yet for you she comes first....what's wrong with this picture Camerajen?
Many (((hugs))). I know it's so so hard. But there is light for your family I promise it does not have to be the way it has been.
You have gotten some really good advice here. I understand the feeling of needing to help. I also understand after dealing with my own A that helping doesn't help most of the time. Most of the time helping makes it worse for everyone. No matter what you do your daughter r is going to have to figure this out for herself. Each time you move heaven and earth you aren't helping her you are hurting her. It's a strange concept but one that is true nonetheless.
I see you are going forward with trying to arrange another rehab. I am going to make some suggestions other than Dont, which is the right answer.
Take a long look at your daughters history has this process worked before? No. Why do you think it will work this time? What is different about this time than any other time? Are you feeling that if you do not that you are a bad parent? Do you think that you are responsible for your child's life as an adult that you have the ability to stop bad things from happening to her that she is doing to herself? You must know you cannot stop her.
When an addict or an Alcoholic has decided to do something about it THEY will do it. It doesn't have to be a fancy rehab. It can be (and often is). In AA or Nar Anon, or salvation army, or the myriad of programs that are free. I suggest you look at coming at this at a different angle because your plan is simply repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.
You need to set aome boundaries. Your child needs, desperately needs, to understand her actions have consequences. She needs to know that her addiction will not be tolerated anymore. Why not lay down some boundaries first before you make arrangement to send her off again? Tell her she needs to prove to you first that she is dedicated now to sobering up. How about 90 meetings in 90 days and then we will discuss the possibility of rehab at that time but it ain't happening otherwise?
How are you doing? How is your marriage? Do you had other children? If we let it a loved ones addiction can Destroy us financially, emotional and sometimes physically. You do not owe your child to destroy yourself over her choices. You do owe her to be accountable for her actions.
Addiction is scary for the addict. No one wants to be one yet part of the mental cycle of perpetuating the addiction is knowing that there are codependent and enablers that will fix all of most problems. Trust this, your daughter has thought in her head "what is the worst case scenario" and comforted herself that no matter what pickleshe gets herself into you and Dad will fix it. This behavior has been proven to her several times already. If she goes to jail...you will get her out. If she has no money....you will provide. If she gets sick....you will heal her. If she has no place to live...you will let her stay with you. If things get bad enough and the situation is tense she can go to detox/rehab again....and you will provide it. All the while understand that her actions are about protecting her addiction. Her addiction comes first yet for you she comes first....what's wrong with this picture Camerajen?
Many (((hugs))). I know it's so so hard. But there is light for your family I promise it does not have to be the way it has been.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by redatlanta
Camerajen so sorry you are going through thiis. You have gotten some really good advice here. I understand the feeling of needing to help. I also understand after dealing with my own A that helping doesn't help most of the time. Most of the time helping makes it worse for everyone. No matter what you do your daughter r is going to have to figure this out for herself. Each time you move heaven and earth you aren't helping her you are hurting her. It's a strange concept but one that is true nonetheless. I see you are going forward with trying to arrange another rehab. I am going to make some suggestions other than Dont, which is the right answer. Take a long look at your daughters history has this process worked before? No. Why do you think it will work this time? What is different about this time than any other time? Are you feeling that if you do not that you are a bad parent? Do you think that you are responsible for your child's life as an adult that you have the ability to stop bad things from happening to her that she is doing to herself? You must know you cannot stop her. When an addict or an Alcoholic has decided to do something about it THEY will do it. It doesn't have to be a fancy rehab. It can be (and often is). In AA or Nar Anon, or salvation army, or the myriad of programs that are free. I suggest you look at coming at this at a different angle because your plan is simply repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome. You need to set aome boundaries. Your child needs, desperately needs, to understand her actions have consequences. She needs to know that her addiction will not be tolerated anymore. Why not lay down some boundaries first before you make arrangement to send her off again? Tell her she needs to prove to you first that she is dedicated now to sobering up. How about 90 meetings in 90 days and then we will discuss the possibility of rehab at that time but it ain't happening otherwise? How are you doing? How is your marriage? Do you had other children? If we let it a loved ones addiction can Destroy us financially, emotional and sometimes physically. You do not owe your child to destroy yourself over her choices. You do owe her to be accountable for her actions. Addiction is scary for the addict. No one wants to be one yet part of the mental cycle of perpetuating the addiction is knowing that there are codependent and enablers that will fix all of most problems. Trust this, your daughter has thought in her head "what is the worst case scenario" and comforted herself that no matter what pickleshe gets herself into you and Dad will fix it. This behavior has been proven to her several times already. If she goes to jail...you will get her out. If she has no money....you will provide. If she gets sick....you will heal her. If she has no place to live...you will let her stay with you. If things get bad enough and the situation is tense she can go to detox/rehab again....and you will provide it. All the while understand that her actions are about protecting her addiction. Her addiction comes first yet for you she comes first....what's wrong with this picture Camerajen? Many (((hugs))). I know it's so so hard. But there is light for your family I promise it does not have to be the way it has been.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Bamawife
As hard as it may be, you cannot do it for her. Only she can make the necessary change. Do not lose hope but please try and focus on yourself. YOU are important and deserve to be happy and healthy!
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by CodeJob
Hello, My H went to out of state rehab. It was fine in itself, but they outright lied about hooking us up with local service when H finished. Drove me nuts. I concur that local options where the experts know the recovery resources alone is woth a few k. Personally it sounds to me she should have enough tools in her toolbox to choose recovery if she was ready. Salvation Army?
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 31
Camerajen...
While cliche... its also brilliant. This can be both true from both an addict side... and an al-alon side..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEIQSbul9Os
Please try to deeply understand what he is feeling from your side.
While cliche... its also brilliant. This can be both true from both an addict side... and an al-alon side..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEIQSbul9Os
Please try to deeply understand what he is feeling from your side.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 31
In fact...I would say..
Watch all of Good Will Hunting.
View yourself as Dr. Lambo...
View Robin Williams as a sponsor...
View his girlfriend as a girlfriend/boyfriend...
View Will as the addict whom is self destructing himself.... and then view his friends as his comfort zone going through similar struggles..or his drug
Watch all of Good Will Hunting.
View yourself as Dr. Lambo...
View Robin Williams as a sponsor...
View his girlfriend as a girlfriend/boyfriend...
View Will as the addict whom is self destructing himself.... and then view his friends as his comfort zone going through similar struggles..or his drug
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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at 1:30 hours.... you can watch Will try to explain his "addiction"......however, he can't explain his addiction...even to the person who has the PHD at MIT.... Wills addiction is natural. You can read all the books in the world. But you can never be like will....no matter how hard you try.
And then you're left feeling helpless. The only one who can actually fix wills obsession with self destruction is himself.
And then you're left feeling helpless. The only one who can actually fix wills obsession with self destruction is himself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 41
So she's been in detox for two days. She just phoned. She says she has been talking to other addicts in there and is losing hope. She says she thinks her only hope to refrain from using it to go on long term methadone. Friends, can you give me your opinions on this? I've been working long hours and I can't think straight right now. Do I let her come home and get in methadone for years or do I not allow her to come home if that us her plan? Then I picture her using again and dying! She's only 19! Is this her only hope for a normal life? Is she too far gone to be sober without methadone? Damn maternal instincts. I'm at a loss. I'm supposed to see her at 6:30 today
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camerajen.....it is typical for them to call and try any means to get out of the treatment center. They are usually very good at manipulating and pushing your buttons.
That she is taking "advice from other addicts who are in her same shoes is preposterous!
My (experienced) suggestion. Do not even have these conversations with her. Leave her to the staff. They are equipped to deal...and, you are not. Even if you were the surgeon general..you are not..LOL!
It is my experience that allowing her to come home is a mistake.
As painful as it might be....do not do what makes you feel better (as a mother)...do what is best for her welfare, in the long run---not matter how much she protests to the contrary!! She will not die because she is angry with you---she will die from the drug.
You have to get tough MOM. You need to grow a thick rhino skin!!!
dandylion
That she is taking "advice from other addicts who are in her same shoes is preposterous!
My (experienced) suggestion. Do not even have these conversations with her. Leave her to the staff. They are equipped to deal...and, you are not. Even if you were the surgeon general..you are not..LOL!
It is my experience that allowing her to come home is a mistake.
As painful as it might be....do not do what makes you feel better (as a mother)...do what is best for her welfare, in the long run---not matter how much she protests to the contrary!! She will not die because she is angry with you---she will die from the drug.
You have to get tough MOM. You need to grow a thick rhino skin!!!
dandylion
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