When is it OK to be sneaky?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
When is it OK to be sneaky?
I'm no saint, but in general, I find life is much less complicated if you're up front about stuff. And I really think that in a marriage honesty is the best policy. But when can you/do you lie/sneak?
My situation: My first grandson was born 5 months ago. DS and DDIL have set a boundary that AH can't visit or be with them when he's drinking. I'm totally on board with that.
But today, DS, who really feels a need to "take a break" from his father, invited me down to see the baby (without AH) and said, "I hate to put you in the position of sneaking around."
I simply can't do that.. Now if AH were drinking today and was MIA for a couple of hours, I might sneak off, but I would tell him later. However, he's sober today. No way will I tell him I'm shopping and go see our grandchild without him.
But, I think I need to ask myself the bigger question, if his drinking is preventing me from having a relationship with my grandson and DS/DDIL, how do I feel about that? Because if that's not a price I'm willing to pay, would I choose to break up the marriage rather than just sneak around?
So does drinking change the normal "rules of engagement" for married couples? Is there justification for lying or doing other things that "real" married couples would never do to each other? Is there "just cause" for lying in an alcoholic marriage?
My situation: My first grandson was born 5 months ago. DS and DDIL have set a boundary that AH can't visit or be with them when he's drinking. I'm totally on board with that.
But today, DS, who really feels a need to "take a break" from his father, invited me down to see the baby (without AH) and said, "I hate to put you in the position of sneaking around."
I simply can't do that.. Now if AH were drinking today and was MIA for a couple of hours, I might sneak off, but I would tell him later. However, he's sober today. No way will I tell him I'm shopping and go see our grandchild without him.
But, I think I need to ask myself the bigger question, if his drinking is preventing me from having a relationship with my grandson and DS/DDIL, how do I feel about that? Because if that's not a price I'm willing to pay, would I choose to break up the marriage rather than just sneak around?
So does drinking change the normal "rules of engagement" for married couples? Is there justification for lying or doing other things that "real" married couples would never do to each other? Is there "just cause" for lying in an alcoholic marriage?
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
His drinking is not your problem. Big deal he is sober today. Go see your Grandson and tell him why he is not invited. I would suggest going to ALAN ON to learn about codependent and enabling behavior
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
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But, I think I need to ask myself the bigger question, if his drinking is preventing me from having a relationship with my grandson and DS/DDIL, how do I feel about that? Because if that's not a price I'm willing to pay, would I choose to break up the marriage rather than just sneak around?
I agree that the straightforward thing to do would be to just tell him why he's not invited.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Originally Posted by MIRecovery 
His drinking is not your problem. Big deal he is sober today. Go see your Grandson and tell him why he is not invited. I would suggest going to ALAN ON to learn about codependent and enabling behavior
Hmmm...
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
SoloMio.....Regardless of how you handle it....it will not be the cause of breaking up a happy marriage. The boundary is between your son and his father. You didn't make a boundary about anything. (you make have an unspoken understanding with your husband that you will "protect him" even if it means cutting yourself short).
If it were ME....I would just go. If he finds out...fine. I would tell him that I will do it again because my grandchild is more important than keeping you happy.
If he doesn't find out fine.....but, he will, eventually, anyway. "Secrets" have a way of coming to the surface, eventually.
I just don't feel that keeping the peace at any price is the way to go....there is always a price to pay. That is just how life seems to work.
Now, I have just given you an example of how I would handle it....BUT, THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW, ONLY!
I am just giving you another way to look at it.
I wish you well....
dandylion
If it were ME....I would just go. If he finds out...fine. I would tell him that I will do it again because my grandchild is more important than keeping you happy.
If he doesn't find out fine.....but, he will, eventually, anyway. "Secrets" have a way of coming to the surface, eventually.
I just don't feel that keeping the peace at any price is the way to go....there is always a price to pay. That is just how life seems to work.
Now, I have just given you an example of how I would handle it....BUT, THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW, ONLY!
I am just giving you another way to look at it.
I wish you well....
dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Thanks! Dandylion, I do appreciate the other points of view, which is why I posted the question. It really helps to see the situation through the eyes of those wiser than I. lillamy and MIRecovery, I agree that telling AH why he is not invited is best. Thanks for the input.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
It’s never going to end well when you allow the A to drive YOUR life.
You are allowing a healthy boundary that was NOT set for YOU to interfere with YOUR relationship with your son, daughter in law and grandchild.
Funny thing about trying to walk on egg shells – some are going to break.
You are allowing a healthy boundary that was NOT set for YOU to interfere with YOUR relationship with your son, daughter in law and grandchild.
Funny thing about trying to walk on egg shells – some are going to break.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 106
Yeah, I'm confused here,what is stopping you from going alone? The issue is between son and father..frankly, your AH needs people to be honest and tell him he's got a choice, abide by their boundaries or stay away, HIS CHOICE, HIS LOSS and you staying away because of HIS CHOICE is sending a very bad message to your son, aswellassupporting your husband in his decision to keep drinking. I think the bigger question is why on earth you would deprive a wonderful grandbaby YOU, just because your AH is chosing to drink?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: in the city by the bay
Posts: 605
Tell your husband your son wants you to see his child and he doesn't want his father there.
Tell him he needs to respect your son's feelings and you also want to respect his wishes.
My 13-yr-old son has issues with his father. He loves his dad but all he's seen is his stepdad taking care of him and his sister.
He recently has a big event in his life. He wanted his dad there but not take part in the ceremony. He wanted his stepdad to take part.
His dad started to insist and I said, he's 13 and we need to hear him and respect his wishes. He wants you there but he said he will be embarrassed to have 2 dads taking part in the ceremony. My ex-husband has this idea that we just do what we want and the kid's feelings are secondary. I said, he's 13, he'll have over 50 friends there and 13-yr-olds get embarrassed. It's his day, he's stated what he wants and we need to respect that.
If your AH has caused a rift and problems between himself and his son, he can deal with that himself but respect what your son says.
I think you will have a much better relationship with you son and DIL if you respect their issues. It's natural to be overprotective of a 5-month old.
Tell him he needs to respect your son's feelings and you also want to respect his wishes.
My 13-yr-old son has issues with his father. He loves his dad but all he's seen is his stepdad taking care of him and his sister.
He recently has a big event in his life. He wanted his dad there but not take part in the ceremony. He wanted his stepdad to take part.
His dad started to insist and I said, he's 13 and we need to hear him and respect his wishes. He wants you there but he said he will be embarrassed to have 2 dads taking part in the ceremony. My ex-husband has this idea that we just do what we want and the kid's feelings are secondary. I said, he's 13, he'll have over 50 friends there and 13-yr-olds get embarrassed. It's his day, he's stated what he wants and we need to respect that.
If your AH has caused a rift and problems between himself and his son, he can deal with that himself but respect what your son says.
I think you will have a much better relationship with you son and DIL if you respect their issues. It's natural to be overprotective of a 5-month old.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
Your DS is the one who has issues with his father (that is his right, his boundary), and in this case, it is the relationship between the two of them. Why do I feel you are being caught in the middle? I do not think that your son should put you in this position and define it as "being sneaky", because you are not sneaking around. You actually should not feel bad about it at all. If your AH asks why he is not invited, maybe he should have a little chat with the son.
It is possible that others will disagree with me, but you should not be caught in between and have these dilemmas.
It is possible that others will disagree with me, but you should not be caught in between and have these dilemmas.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
No way will I tell him I'm shopping and go see our grandchild without him.
and why not? you are a full grown adult woman who can go where she wishes when she wishes and see who she wishes without your AH's permission. HIS drinking caused this rift. his choices, his consequences. you are missing out on your grandchild.....is that what you want?
and why not? you are a full grown adult woman who can go where she wishes when she wishes and see who she wishes without your AH's permission. HIS drinking caused this rift. his choices, his consequences. you are missing out on your grandchild.....is that what you want?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 2,728
I can see not wanting to poke a mean ass sleeping bear (sober for 1 day AH) and not have to listen to a tirade over weeks, months or a year How she hurt him by seeing their grandson alone. He's an active alcoholic! He's not going to understand why she's going alone and if he knows, he's going to put her through more hell because he's too dumb to realize this is his fault because he's choosing to drink his family and the new members away! Not hers!
If my husband was still active, I know my daughter would never allow me to have our granddaughter like we do but I'd not rub it in his face that I'm going on a visit because that's like dumping gas on a fire! Her husband is obviously not capable of rationalizing the decisions his son and DIL have made because he's stuck in a bottle but Grandma doesn't and shouldn't have to suffer! She's going to suffer enough knowing she'll never wake up to his gorgeous face in her house because drunk grandpa lives there.
If you feel that you're starting a war by telling him you're seeing your grandson for a couple hours, by all means, keep it to yourself!!! I'm so grateful that my husband is in recovery and we are so blessed to get our Lynnie 3-4 days a week from my 17 year old daughter! My husband is in love with her and I'm pretty smitten too! Go enjoy the baby! If your AH wants to be a part of his life, he'll straighten up and get healthy before it's too late!
JMO
If my husband was still active, I know my daughter would never allow me to have our granddaughter like we do but I'd not rub it in his face that I'm going on a visit because that's like dumping gas on a fire! Her husband is obviously not capable of rationalizing the decisions his son and DIL have made because he's stuck in a bottle but Grandma doesn't and shouldn't have to suffer! She's going to suffer enough knowing she'll never wake up to his gorgeous face in her house because drunk grandpa lives there.
If you feel that you're starting a war by telling him you're seeing your grandson for a couple hours, by all means, keep it to yourself!!! I'm so grateful that my husband is in recovery and we are so blessed to get our Lynnie 3-4 days a week from my 17 year old daughter! My husband is in love with her and I'm pretty smitten too! Go enjoy the baby! If your AH wants to be a part of his life, he'll straighten up and get healthy before it's too late!
JMO
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
It really helps to see the situation through the eyes of those wiser than I.
I found that to be one of the big eye-openers at Al-Anon. I couldn't see how confused my own thinking was until I heard my words (about how "my AH is different" and "my marriage is not like everyone else's" etc) come out of other people's mouths. That's what I love about this place, too -- that I can be blind to my own situation but there's always someone else who sees where I kind of lie to myself or miss something that's bleeding obvious to other people.
And Solo, you have been such a support and help and source of wisdom here for so long, it's about time you received some back!
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Go see that baby! You only get one life. Don't waste it coddling the grown-ass baby who can't get his sh*t together. You'll regret not making your grandchild a part of your life because you choose to baby your AH instead. And the grandchild will eventually find out why, and then you've got a whole new generation mired in the dysfunction. Go see the baby.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Philly burbs, NJ
Posts: 99
Hi Solo--I live in a similar situation; I have three grandchildren whose parents -- my daughter and one son each have kids -- will not let my RAH see the kids. I'm currently separated from him for the last three months but wouldn't hesitate for a moment, even when we weren't separated, to see the grandkids without him. He knows why.
I do feel bad for him, but I am not going to let his problems keep me from my grandchildren. And yes, it's definitely enabling when we feel bad for them and try to manipulate situations so they don't have to feel pain for their actions.
I'm coming to this realization slowly and it's still difficult for me. Even separated, I still feel "bad" for him over all this but with the help of Alanon, this board and God --plus lots of introspection -- I'm slowly getting past it.
Yesterday he texted me and said he hadn't heard from me "all day", was everything okay? For some reason that really opened my eyes -- why should I be emailing, texting or talking to you everyday when we're separated for very good reasons? And why are you calling me out for it-- in a "nice" but still controlling way?
Go see your grandson, tell him why and let him deal with it. We get way too enmeshed in these situations between our spouse and kids when we should let them deal with the consequences.
I do feel bad for him, but I am not going to let his problems keep me from my grandchildren. And yes, it's definitely enabling when we feel bad for them and try to manipulate situations so they don't have to feel pain for their actions.
I'm coming to this realization slowly and it's still difficult for me. Even separated, I still feel "bad" for him over all this but with the help of Alanon, this board and God --plus lots of introspection -- I'm slowly getting past it.
Yesterday he texted me and said he hadn't heard from me "all day", was everything okay? For some reason that really opened my eyes -- why should I be emailing, texting or talking to you everyday when we're separated for very good reasons? And why are you calling me out for it-- in a "nice" but still controlling way?
Go see your grandson, tell him why and let him deal with it. We get way too enmeshed in these situations between our spouse and kids when we should let them deal with the consequences.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 2,728
I don't think telling him is a great idea. She's still living with him. Why throw gas on an open flame? I'm just looking out for her and her peace and quiet time while living with him. We don't really know what he's like but why walk into the boxing ring when you can walk around it? Doesn't make sense. Some of you who want him to know she's seeing the baby don't live with your A's anymore. She does and that's where I'm coming from with her not advertising it to him.
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