atalose

The thread title asks when is it ok to be sneaky? The OP asked.....

I think most of the replies are indicating NO, lying is not healthy behavior and having to sneak around in ones own life is no way to live.

Addiction is a building of a big wall to keep them in and others out. We get to chose which side we want to live on because you really can't LIVE on both, at least not peacefully and happily.

BoxinRotz

And most thought it acceptable to tell another member it's ok to stay married because it's cheaper to keep her. yeah... ok...

I want pickles on my burger... but, HOLD THE LETTUCE! I don't like green things!

LifeRecovery

SolioMio-

I am begining to learn (after my therapy appt this week) that my "sneakiness" and "lying" is usually about trying to keep the emotional energy in the room smooth.

She also gently reminded me that when I do that it is caretaking someone else's "reaction" (which I have no control over anyway), and it NOT taking care of me.

That hit me hard. I do that a lot. I am better about say what you mean, mean what you say and don't say it mean but I often still try to sugar coat things or not bring them up.

I am begining to see that those are still remnants of my people pleasing. As a result the rest of the week I have been trying to touch in with me, about what I need, what I need to say etc and take the other person out of it. It is scary and lovely all at the same time.

SoloMio

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Your points are all well-taken. I appreciate the understanding responses, like dandylion healthyagain, and BoxinRotz, who understand that living with an alcoholic is sometimes shades of grey, and no matter what careful discernment usually brings about the best response.

In my case, I think where I land on honesty is suggesting to DS that he might want to clarify with his Dad what he has told him before--that they are "on hiatus" as AH is concerned because of the drinking. It's clear that this has slipped AHs mind, based on a comment he made yesterday. If I tell him the truth about what DS feels, AH will think I'm making it up.

I truly am not afraid to go without AH--I've done it before. A few weeks ago, they invited us down as long as AH wasn't drinking, and AH came home drunk shortly before we were to leave, and he actually told me to "just you go." He knew he wouldn't be welcome. But the case the other day was different because AH wouldn't know why, if he was stone cold sober, he couldn't go with me. And the reason is, on vacation two weeks ago, DS just wound up totally "so done with the ___ show" because of some loud drunken shenanigans AH displayed one night. AH doesn't know that his son has basically cut him off for a while.

Thanks for the "just go!" comments like from MIRecovery, MissFixIt, Anvilhead II, atalose, Hiker Lady, NWGRITS, biminiblue--I know it might be hard to understand why I won't just go. But when I DO just go, I'll have your encouragement in my head!

Thanks for sharing the ES&H, soberjuly, queenapple, LifeRecovery.

lillamy, thank you--your kind words meant a lot to me. I've been around here for a long time, but I'm not a "regular," and certainly I never felt like I've done much here, especially compared to you and many of the other "regulars."

You guys are just so awesome.

CodeJob

Hello Solo,

I am not very good at sneaking around. If I saw my grand baby (& my DS is just 13 so this better be a LONG spell from now), I would not be able to keep such FUN to myself. I'd be compelled to share some little cute cell phone shot or chatter about their little feet or how I gave them a bath or whatever little awesome thing I got to share with GB. I would not be able to not share such joy as that munchkin also belongs to RAH.

I was a little confused if DS has clearly told A grandpa about the boundary? Is that why they want you to sneak? If that is the rule, DS (new papa) needs to speak for his own little family.

There are 2 things I am sneaky on. One is my Plan X for a Exit. The second is the cost of things I buy or do. I am thrifty but running shoes, travel and therapy add up. No reason to argue over things keeping me semi-sane!

AnvilheadII

In my case, I think where I land on honesty is suggesting to DS that he might want to clarify with his Dad what he has told him before--that they are "on hiatus" as AH is concerned because of the drinking. It's clear that this has slipped AHs mind, based on a comment he made yesterday. If I tell him the truth about what DS feels, AH will think I'm making it up.

here's the thing....you don't NEED to go into all the above. you do not have to base your decisions on AH - you do not have to make sure he clearly understands or remembers that he is not welcome somewhere. you can make decisions based upon what YOU want to do with your time. if you want to go hang at the beach, or see a film, check out a farmers market OR go see your precious grandchild....you CAN. without him. and without his permission. you're a grown woman, you don't need permission.

my husband and I were invited to a friend's wedding reception on Saturday (they actually got married a few weeks ago and were hosting the celebration yesterday). however my adult daughter and I wanted to go to the SPY exhibit at the Pacific Science Center and see the Lemurs of Madagascar movie in 3D at the IMAX theatre and it turned out the best day for US to go was also Saturday/yesterday.

I didn't ASK if it was OK for me to go spend the day with my daughter. it will be a cold day in hell before THAT ever happens! I informed him of my plans and that was that. renee and I had a very fun adventure including leaving the car behind and taking light rail and then the monorail, strolling over to Uptown China for lunch and then going to the movie and the exhibit. and hank went to the party and had a great time playing horseshoes, snarfing on the cheese platter, eating two hot dogs and just enjoying himself.

don't let ANYTHING or ANYONE keep you from your kids or your grandbabies. you've kowtowed to AH long enough eh?

AnvilheadII

I should also add the weekend before, on Friday - at the last minute right after work hank got an invite/free ticket to go to the Seahawks preseason game that night at 7pm. he didn't ASK me if it was OK for him to go, he just let me know and went and had a blast. it did take me a few minutes to readjust to having the night to myself, but I managed just fine, watching the game in the comfort of my home!!!

Jenibean87

I hang out with one parent (neither of whom have a drinkin problem) individually plenty. It's called bonding. My mom doesn't sneak around when she invites me out to lunch without my dad, and vice versa. They simply say, "oh, I'm having lunch with Jeni this afternoon, be back in a couple of hours." Simple. Uncomplicated. And really no big deal. Why does it seem to be sneaking? Would AH insist on joining? Would he be angry for you spending bonding time with your son?

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. Tell your AH the truth. Any issue he takes with it is his crap.

Thumper

I can see your predicament. It isn't healthy to sacrifice other relationships to shield him or avoid confrontation.

It is weird to just get up and walk out of the house without a word, it feels wrong to you to lie about where you are going, so what would happen with this.....

You: I'm going to Bob's to visit the grandbaby.
Him: Great I'll get my shoes.
You: You were not invited.
Him: Huh? Why?
You: You'll have to ask Bob.
Him: Well you aren't going without me are you?
You: Yup. See ya later.

So you would want to have your keys in hand before the first sentence so you could fly outta there! No lying. No sacrificing. If he is hurt and/or angry that is the way it goes and he can call and talk to Bob himself. If all hell broke lose with you and him because of that - that would be something more to think about. If Bob expects you to shield him by lying - well that isn't fair and you don't have to do that either!

SoloMio

just wanted to report that I just returned from seeing my son, DIL and grandson. It's a holiday, and AH knew he wasn't invited so he stayed home to watch TV. I packed some of the vegetables from my garden. I stopped by Target on the way and bought a little outfit for fall and a toy.

They had set a table of snacks for me. We had some cheese and crackers and olives and mozzarella and a glass of wine, and I got to feed the baby, burp the baby, and play with the baby.

I brought home a zinnia from their garden for AH (he loves zinnias).

Done deal.

Thank you, all, for your support.

Thumper

That sounds like a nice afternoon! Thanks for the update.

spia

Hi,

I'm the sober wife of an AH. When our Dr was six months old I left him and went back to my pants home.

His parents have always been more than welcome to visit with our daughter. At first my mother in law felt the way you feel. She didn't think it was fair for her to spend time with the baby bc he was missing out.

He missed out because of a choice he made. Why should you our my mother in law pay the consequences?

Well I went back and the sobriety didn't last. This time my mother in law understand that our daughter needs those around her that will be stable and love her regardless of what her father is doing. Why should me baby miss out on having a grandmother when she is already missing out on her dad?

spia

Also, he had to feel the pain of his choices or he will never learn our understand empathy. He has to understand that he had caused this pain and had hurt others in the process....including having empathy for his child