Why he drinks.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
I can understand the abandonment issues well--it's amazing how our feelings just swing like a pendulum depending upon how "secure" we are in the relationship. And by secure, I don't mean happy, or functional--I can't speak for you, but what came to mind for me was how much in my life I have needed my AH to think he "needs" me so I won't be abandoned. So when he purports to not need me, wow--that just really shakes my world.
At the same time, yes, I also identify with what you said about the counselors who give him the excuse he needs to do whatever the heck he wants, and to justify his bad behavior. BTDT too. It's insane how "experts" can fall under the same spell..
There was a point a few months into my AHs relapse from 5 years of sobriety when his counselor convinced him that I was the controlling one restricting his privilege to be himself (subtext: return to drinking). So he told me he was moving out. He asked me to approve the the condo he was considering moving into. And I actually went with him. That's how sick I was (and maybe still am). He never did move out--not because I begged him not to or any such nonsense, because I was basically not feeling any emotions strong enough to beg anyone for anything. I think I probably just let that pendulum swing over to "no, I need you more than you need me" in more subtle ways.
I know how hard it is, and I am with you. If it were me, I would hope that I could find the support I needed to fully allow me to detach from whatever stuff he thinks he needs to get through his personal issues, and just let him deal with it.
I would try to cut off my own crazy thoughts and anger and resentment. If I had to do my situation over again, I would take a good long break before doing joint therapy, or joint anything. I'd try to recognize the need I would have to be a whole person on my own.
Hugs and good luck to you!
At the same time, yes, I also identify with what you said about the counselors who give him the excuse he needs to do whatever the heck he wants, and to justify his bad behavior. BTDT too. It's insane how "experts" can fall under the same spell..
There was a point a few months into my AHs relapse from 5 years of sobriety when his counselor convinced him that I was the controlling one restricting his privilege to be himself (subtext: return to drinking). So he told me he was moving out. He asked me to approve the the condo he was considering moving into. And I actually went with him. That's how sick I was (and maybe still am). He never did move out--not because I begged him not to or any such nonsense, because I was basically not feeling any emotions strong enough to beg anyone for anything. I think I probably just let that pendulum swing over to "no, I need you more than you need me" in more subtle ways.
I know how hard it is, and I am with you. If it were me, I would hope that I could find the support I needed to fully allow me to detach from whatever stuff he thinks he needs to get through his personal issues, and just let him deal with it.
I would try to cut off my own crazy thoughts and anger and resentment. If I had to do my situation over again, I would take a good long break before doing joint therapy, or joint anything. I'd try to recognize the need I would have to be a whole person on my own.
Hugs and good luck to you!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by LadyinBC 
Yes I certainly thought I was very special and I wasn't like those "others" who were alcoholics and begging for money on the street. And me going to the liquor store, drunk, with my jammies on underneath my coat and jeans. Yes I was very special and thought of myself as a high class drunk hahaha. At the end of the day I am an alcoholic drunk just like everyone else.
And I have to agree with queen apple this psych sounds like a nut. I think you need to detach yourself for a bit and take a breather from this. Just my opinion. You don't deserve to be treated this way or have to put up with this crap.
And I have to agree with queen apple this psych sounds like a nut. I think you need to detach yourself for a bit and take a breather from this. Just my opinion. You don't deserve to be treated this way or have to put up with this crap.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Yeah, buncha Grade-A Quacking right there. 100% Crap. Refresh my memory - is your AH also possibly narcissistic? That can really complicate his getting proper diagnosis. I agree with the others, just wanted to join the choir.... this counselor can't have an understanding of addiction, making absurd statements like that.
And Ladyscribbler? I am DYING over here; this is hil.ar.i.ous!
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
Jarp, this confirms what I have suspected all along. You have magical powers. Kindly arrange for me to win the lottery next week. I'm not even going to buy a ticket, such is my confidence in your powers.
I'm sure him staying sober these couple of days has nothing to do with the meds he was given to control cravings. It was all due to being outside of the sphere of your influence. *eyeroll*
In exchange for the imminent cash prize I will be receiving, I have helpfully translated their words into one easy to remember expression:
Quack!
I'm sure him staying sober these couple of days has nothing to do with the meds he was given to control cravings. It was all due to being outside of the sphere of your influence. *eyeroll*
In exchange for the imminent cash prize I will be receiving, I have helpfully translated their words into one easy to remember expression:
Quack!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by jarp
At the appointment today he revealed that the assessments show no mental illness, and that he is not a 'typical' alcoholic, whatever that means. He's been referred to an addiction specialist, and the psych has given him a drug to help with cravings and something else that I don't know what it is.
What he did discover is that all this stems from the fact that we 'don't get along', that I stifle him, he feels trapped and constrained. Apparently he unconsciously has been acting 'deplorably' to 'force' me to make a decision because he was 'too gutless' to do it himself. That he has to have time apart from me so he can work out whether he wants to be with me, and whether he was even ever in love with me.
The psych made the 'interesting insight' that in living with loving friends he's been able to not drink. And he's not able to do that with me.
What he did discover is that all this stems from the fact that we 'don't get along', that I stifle him, he feels trapped and constrained. Apparently he unconsciously has been acting 'deplorably' to 'force' me to make a decision because he was 'too gutless' to do it himself. That he has to have time apart from me so he can work out whether he wants to be with me, and whether he was even ever in love with me.
The psych made the 'interesting insight' that in living with loving friends he's been able to not drink. And he's not able to do that with me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Thanks everyone...moving forward is so much easier when I am angry....now I am just so sad and I suspect depressed and I'm finding it harder.
In terms of questions....this was my AH's synopsis of what was discussed, not what was told to me by his psychiatrist....who knows what the psych actually said....I'm guessing that what AH told me was a 5 minute component of the 2.5 hour assessment.
Our joint counsellor and 2 of the crisis assessment MH workers were the ones that mentioned the possibility of a personality disorder to me...either narcissistic PD or borderline PD...both of which when I read about them resonate quite strongly with me.
I know it's not me, and I do know that if it wasn't me there would be other issues forcing him to drink. Because over the years there has always been something....and he did say that he had identified that as soon as something "doesn't go his way" he starts drinking. S he'd be here with me or no me.
The psych does deal with addiction....but has referred AH on to a colleague who is a 'specialist' I find this a bit odd as the psych is the admin head of addiction at a private hospital H did a stint in before we met. Yes, BEORE WE MET!!!!
Also I think AH has run with a line that was said to me when I asked an assessment worker if AH was just a "common garden variety alcoholic" and he laughed saying "there is no such thing as a common alcoholic"!! At the time I thought he meant that I needed to respect that they are all individuals with individual stories, causes and complex issues....now I think he was just being ironic!
Thanks for everyone saying I did the right thing by losing it yesterday but I actually don't think I did. I much prefer to react with rational logic than I do pure emotion....and I said things I don't even mean.
Thanks for all the feedback. I do need a breather from all this.....NC apart for kid issues I think is the go. Counselling is supposed to be supporting us to co-parent so I will go in and state that as my reason for being there next week.
Thanks all xxx
In terms of questions....this was my AH's synopsis of what was discussed, not what was told to me by his psychiatrist....who knows what the psych actually said....I'm guessing that what AH told me was a 5 minute component of the 2.5 hour assessment.
Our joint counsellor and 2 of the crisis assessment MH workers were the ones that mentioned the possibility of a personality disorder to me...either narcissistic PD or borderline PD...both of which when I read about them resonate quite strongly with me.
I know it's not me, and I do know that if it wasn't me there would be other issues forcing him to drink. Because over the years there has always been something....and he did say that he had identified that as soon as something "doesn't go his way" he starts drinking. S he'd be here with me or no me.
The psych does deal with addiction....but has referred AH on to a colleague who is a 'specialist' I find this a bit odd as the psych is the admin head of addiction at a private hospital H did a stint in before we met. Yes, BEORE WE MET!!!!
Also I think AH has run with a line that was said to me when I asked an assessment worker if AH was just a "common garden variety alcoholic" and he laughed saying "there is no such thing as a common alcoholic"!! At the time I thought he meant that I needed to respect that they are all individuals with individual stories, causes and complex issues....now I think he was just being ironic!
Thanks for everyone saying I did the right thing by losing it yesterday but I actually don't think I did. I much prefer to react with rational logic than I do pure emotion....and I said things I don't even mean.
Thanks for all the feedback. I do need a breather from all this.....NC apart for kid issues I think is the go. Counselling is supposed to be supporting us to co-parent so I will go in and state that as my reason for being there next week.
Thanks all xxx
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Originally Posted by hopeful4
I call total bull$hit. Dont go back, get your own counselor
I heard the SAME crap from our marriage therapist, but she admitted eventually that she knew jack about alcoholism and addiction. You need a really good, qualified therapist that is well versed in addiction to do marriage or couples counseling. Doing marriage or couples counseling with an active alcoholic or brand spanking new in recovery alcoholic is beyond frustrating and oh so pointless.
Hugs to you. I think you rock, btw!
Baby Steps
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
I find that after I become angry I am so exhausted and my mood plummets!! It's natural that yours would as well after the last few days. Can you meet up with friends, take the kids out to the park something fun for you that may lift your mood?
Stay strong
Stay strong
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Oh Puh-Lease. Who knows what was said during that session he is a proven liar anyway. I am glad he has found these "magic" friends to live with. They should open a rehab as just being around them gets people sober. More will be revealed on that end….
As for the psychiatrist, like all doctors some are good and some suck and just because he is the king pin quack doesn't mean he is a great doctor it may just mean is is a terrific bureaucrat. My RAH was mis diagnosed for 10 years with depression and other things when he was really bi-polar and any fool should have been able to figure it out. In the end it will be better for all if he does not have a mental illness or personality disorder. If that is true then I would label him a simple horrific, deep in phase alcoholic. That sounds good doesn't it? Much better than depressed or something else.
As for his tactics in this meeting of taking his power back and such and your reaction to his hurtful comments and keeping you on the defensive in the meeting……..pushed a button. I'm going to tell you the best way to deal with that. Put him on the defensive. Because what he wants is to fluster and upset you so nobody is paying attention to him.
"I don't know if I ever loved you' ……."then you are an idiot for marrying me".
"You cause me to drink"………"then we should never be around each other"
"you are an awful wife"……."let's file for divorce. Why would we even discuss this you think I am an awful wife you need to move on"
"you have stifled and smothered me the only way I can deal with it is to drink"……."I had no idea I married someone who is so stupid to stay with someone who stifles and smothers them. Why in the world are you still married to me? What is wrong with you"?
You want to watch him tap dance and sit there with his mouth on the floor with nothing to say then allow him to OWN the garbage that comes out his mouth.
Sorry you had such a rough one and many (((((hugs))) its just quackification and you do not have to be subjected to it.
As for the psychiatrist, like all doctors some are good and some suck and just because he is the king pin quack doesn't mean he is a great doctor it may just mean is is a terrific bureaucrat. My RAH was mis diagnosed for 10 years with depression and other things when he was really bi-polar and any fool should have been able to figure it out. In the end it will be better for all if he does not have a mental illness or personality disorder. If that is true then I would label him a simple horrific, deep in phase alcoholic. That sounds good doesn't it? Much better than depressed or something else.
As for his tactics in this meeting of taking his power back and such and your reaction to his hurtful comments and keeping you on the defensive in the meeting……..pushed a button. I'm going to tell you the best way to deal with that. Put him on the defensive. Because what he wants is to fluster and upset you so nobody is paying attention to him.
"I don't know if I ever loved you' ……."then you are an idiot for marrying me".
"You cause me to drink"………"then we should never be around each other"
"you are an awful wife"……."let's file for divorce. Why would we even discuss this you think I am an awful wife you need to move on"
"you have stifled and smothered me the only way I can deal with it is to drink"……."I had no idea I married someone who is so stupid to stay with someone who stifles and smothers them. Why in the world are you still married to me? What is wrong with you"?
You want to watch him tap dance and sit there with his mouth on the floor with nothing to say then allow him to OWN the garbage that comes out his mouth.
Sorry you had such a rough one and many (((((hugs))) its just quackification and you do not have to be subjected to it.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by jarp
He's also conveniently forgetting that his drinking started long before I hit the scene. His psych knows this too. Apparently drinking is his 'maladaptive way of dealing with unpleasant things in his life'.
Nice to know I'm 'unpleasant'.
Although today that was probably a pretty accurate description....
Nice to know I'm 'unpleasant'.
Although today that was probably a pretty accurate description....
Like the other "A's" that have responded I too thought I was "special" and boy am I (sarcasm). "Maladaptive way of dealing with unpleasant things in his life." Ummm... yes this is part of what alcoholics do which makes him NO DIFFERENT. If he got outside of his little self obsessed box and made a list of all the things that make him drink and THEN got out there and GOT REAL I bet that he could not find ONE THING that plenty of other people face and DON'T drink. Thus his rationalizing is rendered null and void.
Anyhoo still haven't completed my morning cup o coffee (justifying my rant here;-)) but staying as far away as you can and finding a very good therapist for you is the best thing you can do for yourself and sounds like you're already on that path. BTW regarding the raging in the therapists office, if it helps any I've done my fair share. Worst times were first few months sober when every darned frustration over life that had been numbed by booze wasn't and I wound up in a screaming fit or too as I vented. I'm quite sure he wondered why my hubbie wasn't the "A" after a performance or two of mine. That said, please don't feel badly, you're not the first nor the last to finally snap and let loose. While I'm quite sure I came off as a psycho nut job at the time I confess that it DID feel good "letting it all out."
Hang in there and PEACE.
-Cookie
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Jarp, my X blamed me for years that i trigger him to drink. Friday he went to a beer festival, yesterday to a winery. I only know bc my DD told me, he is dumb enough to post it on FB which i dont follow but my DD does. Wonder how i triggered that LOL.
Its just as you said, it will always be something. Realize that something is not you.
XXX
Its just as you said, it will always be something. Realize that something is not you.
XXX
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