What is this? depression? dry drunk? :(
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What is this? depression? dry drunk? :(
Hi All,
APOLOGIES FOR LONG WINDED POST, BUT PLEASE READ AS I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE!
The last time I posted here was nearly a year ago about a new friend who was an alcoholic...it was very sad watching her self destruction and I was advised to take a step back. I didn't and we remained friends, she tried to quit drinking and I Supported her in that but she fell off the wagon again big time and went to rehab. She has now been 'sober' for 8 months (she admitted to me and me alone when she had one slip one night 3 months ago)
Anyway her behaviour since coming back from rehab is very bizarre and her fluctuating moods are very confusing.
She has been through so much...she grew up in a cult, married a narcissist, became an alcoholic, has lots of health issue...the list goes on and I have tried to be a supportive friend. she just quit her 4th job since xmas, she seems to have an issue with 'people'...theres always a problem with every single person she works with.
I feel I have been a good friend, I am there when she needs to chat and vent, she is always pleading poverty so I often treat her to coffee, lunch, meals. I invite her over a lot for dinner, watch tv, just hang out. And we have a great time together, shes witty, smart and beautiful. But her self esteem and confidence is absolute rock bottom.
I occasionally ask her to babysit or give me a ride and I ALWAYS pay her and she always expects to be paid. I don't mind, I know she can do with the money.
BUT since being sober, for the 3rd time now she has unreasonably got into a fight with me, usually over text and always after her ex has pissed her off or she very upset about something or other. Last night her ex was nasty to her again and I tried to soothe her for many hours over texting. In the midst of all this I found out I would need a ride to work the next morning so I figured I would ask her if she could take me and she started asking why, and did she have a choice, and she really wasn't sleeping well and wetting the bed (!!!) and didn't want to get up early but she didn't want to seem selfish. I said its totally fine I can ask someone else, no worries.
She then said how angry she was that our friendship was based on favors and how dare I exploit our friendship!
I was and still am totally flabbergasted! and when I tried to defend myself and tell her I was hurt and resented the implication of being a user she turned it around and told me I should look at my level of anger!? whaaaa? so weird the way she was twisting it, it was so projecting. I wont go into the whole conversation but I am sure you get this gist.
I am so shocked and hurt. I have never used a friend and to be accused of that has hurt me so much.
Can anyone shed any light here? I think she is having some sort of post alcohol depression or something.
The friendship is over, it has to be. I feel like her emotional punching bag at times so I am done but I am just a little perplexed and wanted to get a perspective from you insightful folks here at SR before moving forward.
Thanks in advance
APOLOGIES FOR LONG WINDED POST, BUT PLEASE READ AS I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE!
The last time I posted here was nearly a year ago about a new friend who was an alcoholic...it was very sad watching her self destruction and I was advised to take a step back. I didn't and we remained friends, she tried to quit drinking and I Supported her in that but she fell off the wagon again big time and went to rehab. She has now been 'sober' for 8 months (she admitted to me and me alone when she had one slip one night 3 months ago)
Anyway her behaviour since coming back from rehab is very bizarre and her fluctuating moods are very confusing.
She has been through so much...she grew up in a cult, married a narcissist, became an alcoholic, has lots of health issue...the list goes on and I have tried to be a supportive friend. she just quit her 4th job since xmas, she seems to have an issue with 'people'...theres always a problem with every single person she works with.
I feel I have been a good friend, I am there when she needs to chat and vent, she is always pleading poverty so I often treat her to coffee, lunch, meals. I invite her over a lot for dinner, watch tv, just hang out. And we have a great time together, shes witty, smart and beautiful. But her self esteem and confidence is absolute rock bottom.
I occasionally ask her to babysit or give me a ride and I ALWAYS pay her and she always expects to be paid. I don't mind, I know she can do with the money.
BUT since being sober, for the 3rd time now she has unreasonably got into a fight with me, usually over text and always after her ex has pissed her off or she very upset about something or other. Last night her ex was nasty to her again and I tried to soothe her for many hours over texting. In the midst of all this I found out I would need a ride to work the next morning so I figured I would ask her if she could take me and she started asking why, and did she have a choice, and she really wasn't sleeping well and wetting the bed (!!!) and didn't want to get up early but she didn't want to seem selfish. I said its totally fine I can ask someone else, no worries.
She then said how angry she was that our friendship was based on favors and how dare I exploit our friendship!
I was and still am totally flabbergasted! and when I tried to defend myself and tell her I was hurt and resented the implication of being a user she turned it around and told me I should look at my level of anger!? whaaaa? so weird the way she was twisting it, it was so projecting. I wont go into the whole conversation but I am sure you get this gist.
I am so shocked and hurt. I have never used a friend and to be accused of that has hurt me so much.
Can anyone shed any light here? I think she is having some sort of post alcohol depression or something.
The friendship is over, it has to be. I feel like her emotional punching bag at times so I am done but I am just a little perplexed and wanted to get a perspective from you insightful folks here at SR before moving forward.
Thanks in advance
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Welcome back!
I am afraid I do not have any experience with how it is for recovering A's, but someone here does, no doubt.
Perhaps stepping away will help you to understand more. Perhaps she was drinking when she was texting those hurtful things?
I am afraid I do not have any experience with how it is for recovering A's, but someone here does, no doubt.
Perhaps stepping away will help you to understand more. Perhaps she was drinking when she was texting those hurtful things?
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Thanks Chicory,
You know what? After typing that all out and reading it several times, I just thought ...omg, she was probably drinking and probably really pissed off that I asked her for a ride the next day as this was going to 'interrupt' her binge or get her 'busted'.
I don't want to assume that but.....I just don't see any other explanation for her outburst, it was so unreasonable and unjust that I didn't see the point in continuing with it. I told her I was done with the conversation as it had gotten absurd and bid her goodnight. she blew up my phone but I ignored her texts, in fact I deleted them without even looking at them...I was too upset.
You know what? After typing that all out and reading it several times, I just thought ...omg, she was probably drinking and probably really pissed off that I asked her for a ride the next day as this was going to 'interrupt' her binge or get her 'busted'.
I don't want to assume that but.....I just don't see any other explanation for her outburst, it was so unreasonable and unjust that I didn't see the point in continuing with it. I told her I was done with the conversation as it had gotten absurd and bid her goodnight. she blew up my phone but I ignored her texts, in fact I deleted them without even looking at them...I was too upset.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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This sounds like a pretty one-sided friendship.
If she is drinking again, the one-sidedness will increase as she becomes less functional.
I found I had to step away from a very long term friendship when this happened.
I'm sorry you were hurt, but unfortunately, it may happen again so be prepared.
If she is drinking again, the one-sidedness will increase as she becomes less functional.
I found I had to step away from a very long term friendship when this happened.
I'm sorry you were hurt, but unfortunately, it may happen again so be prepared.
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Yes it does seem one-sided. That's why I feel so hurt because now when I think of it.... she is accusing me of the very thing that she may be guilty of herself. does she really think I am using her, really? deep down? Just because I ask her for a ride occasionally?
My xh was an alcoholic so I am well used to the antics but I dunno, the dynamics are so different when its a friend rather then an intimate partner.
I don't know if she is drinking again, she does lock herself away in her house sometimes and becomes hermit like but she does this when she battles with depression and she did this when she was bingeing too, so its hard to know.
I don't want to reach out as I think she 100% owes me an apology. If she is drinking again I know I wont get one because the reasoning is warped.
I guess the bottom line is if she is still sober and thinks this, then that's crazy and if she is drinking again, I don't want any part of it. I cannot slip back into my codie ways.
either way the friendship is over and I guess I am feeling disappointed about it
My xh was an alcoholic so I am well used to the antics but I dunno, the dynamics are so different when its a friend rather then an intimate partner.
I don't know if she is drinking again, she does lock herself away in her house sometimes and becomes hermit like but she does this when she battles with depression and she did this when she was bingeing too, so its hard to know.
I don't want to reach out as I think she 100% owes me an apology. If she is drinking again I know I wont get one because the reasoning is warped.
I guess the bottom line is if she is still sober and thinks this, then that's crazy and if she is drinking again, I don't want any part of it. I cannot slip back into my codie ways.
either way the friendship is over and I guess I am feeling disappointed about it
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Wow. I wish I had you as a friend. You seem awesome, and I would definitely appreciate you! A lot of people would.
However..... you have one fatal flaw (and you know what it is).
You're letting yourself be a doormat.
Of course she's drinking. Either that or she's a jerk. In the end it doesn't really matter. You can't cure alcoholics, and you can't fix jerks. What you can do, and what I would suggest you consider doing, is working on yourself. You are too lovely of a person to waste your time and energy on someone who doesn't appreciate you.
However..... you have one fatal flaw (and you know what it is).
You're letting yourself be a doormat.
Of course she's drinking. Either that or she's a jerk. In the end it doesn't really matter. You can't cure alcoholics, and you can't fix jerks. What you can do, and what I would suggest you consider doing, is working on yourself. You are too lovely of a person to waste your time and energy on someone who doesn't appreciate you.
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Serious Karma, thank you so much!
I think trying to have a relationship with an alcoholic, be it friendship or otherwise is banging your head against the wall - youre only hurting yourself.
I just thought she was doing so well although I have had suspicions that she has had more then just one admitted slip.
Now that I think of it, she seems to have tremendous difficulty in seeing another persons point of view with anything. She is constantly in some verbal/written flame war or battle with someone on a social networking site or forum.
She is highly sensitive and very prickly. She refuses to participate in AA, says its like a cult, which is fine. That's her prerogative but she absolutely needs some intensive therapy, no doubt.
ANYWAY.....MY QUESTION IS.....What do I do from this point? Just go about my business and just hope shes ok from afar? I think it is wise to cut her off at this point? what say you guys??
And thank you all for your input!
I think trying to have a relationship with an alcoholic, be it friendship or otherwise is banging your head against the wall - youre only hurting yourself.
I just thought she was doing so well although I have had suspicions that she has had more then just one admitted slip.
Now that I think of it, she seems to have tremendous difficulty in seeing another persons point of view with anything. She is constantly in some verbal/written flame war or battle with someone on a social networking site or forum.
She is highly sensitive and very prickly. She refuses to participate in AA, says its like a cult, which is fine. That's her prerogative but she absolutely needs some intensive therapy, no doubt.
ANYWAY.....MY QUESTION IS.....What do I do from this point? Just go about my business and just hope shes ok from afar? I think it is wise to cut her off at this point? what say you guys??
And thank you all for your input!
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,434
I would do what is best for you.
If you need some sort of "closure" by letting her know via email how her actions impacted you, than fine.
Or, if you are comfortable just letting it go, than do that but remember she may call on you when (notice not "if" here) she gets into her next crisis or wants something from you.
I personally would choose to shut the door before things get worse and you get sucked back in but that is entirely up to you.
If you need some sort of "closure" by letting her know via email how her actions impacted you, than fine.
Or, if you are comfortable just letting it go, than do that but remember she may call on you when (notice not "if" here) she gets into her next crisis or wants something from you.
I personally would choose to shut the door before things get worse and you get sucked back in but that is entirely up to you.
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Originally Posted by MrsButler 
ANYWAY.....MY QUESTION IS.....What do I do from this point? Just go about my business and just hope shes ok from afar? I think it is wise to cut her off at this point? what say you guys??
Let her Higher Power take it from here.
((((((( hugs back ))))))))
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Dear MrsButler......About the ride thing...I think you hit the nail on the head yourself, with the word "Projection". I agree with you, and I suspect that she harbors a lot of guilt and this is her way of dealing with it.
You are human and sound very sincere...so, of course it hurt your feelings, up front. I think it would hurt anyone's feelings. As you step back, though, just remember that this is about the war going on in her head...not you.
If you grew up like I did---the lessons that we l earn about how to handle friendships are based on HEALTHY relationships with fairly healthy people----and they work pretty well in that context. HOwever, there is nothing that prepares us to get along smoothly with the dysfunction of addicts in a relationship---unless we are willing to just get stomped into the ground...LOL.
About your last question....I really don't see that you have any choice except to give her a very wide berth..very WIDE. You don't necessarily have to do anything...just slowly back away. Down deep she knows who you are and what kind of person you are and there may be a time when she is ready for real constructive help...and, you would probably be the very person that she comes to. If that happens..handle it as it comes up.
I really do understand your sadness and disappointment. You feel as if you have "lost" a friendship that means something in your heart. You have invested a lot of yourself into her. In fact--you may do some grieving over this. Go ahead, if you do....cry, etc....the grief part will pass...it always does.
There is something that I remember from "co-dependent No More". It is sort of like this: I a situation when there is a victim and rescurer situation (with the victim is capable of helping themselves). When you rush in and "rescue"....the victim resents it and will, eventually, turn on you for it. (punish you). The rescurer, then, feels betrayed and done wrong. The rescuer then feels in the role of the victim!! The moral is--if you rescue someone that you should not---you will suffer for it in the end.
I just wanted to share with you what my take on your situation is......
You have my empathy.
dandylion
You are human and sound very sincere...so, of course it hurt your feelings, up front. I think it would hurt anyone's feelings. As you step back, though, just remember that this is about the war going on in her head...not you.
If you grew up like I did---the lessons that we l earn about how to handle friendships are based on HEALTHY relationships with fairly healthy people----and they work pretty well in that context. HOwever, there is nothing that prepares us to get along smoothly with the dysfunction of addicts in a relationship---unless we are willing to just get stomped into the ground...LOL.
About your last question....I really don't see that you have any choice except to give her a very wide berth..very WIDE. You don't necessarily have to do anything...just slowly back away. Down deep she knows who you are and what kind of person you are and there may be a time when she is ready for real constructive help...and, you would probably be the very person that she comes to. If that happens..handle it as it comes up.
I really do understand your sadness and disappointment. You feel as if you have "lost" a friendship that means something in your heart. You have invested a lot of yourself into her. In fact--you may do some grieving over this. Go ahead, if you do....cry, etc....the grief part will pass...it always does.
There is something that I remember from "co-dependent No More". It is sort of like this: I a situation when there is a victim and rescurer situation (with the victim is capable of helping themselves). When you rush in and "rescue"....the victim resents it and will, eventually, turn on you for it. (punish you). The rescurer, then, feels betrayed and done wrong. The rescuer then feels in the role of the victim!! The moral is--if you rescue someone that you should not---you will suffer for it in the end.
I just wanted to share with you what my take on your situation is......
You have my empathy.
dandylion
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Thanks again everyone.
Dandylion, your post was very comforting. I identify completely with your quote from 'co-dep no more'. And I find the saying 'no good deed goes unpunished' was absolutely written for codies!
I think I need to work on myself as SK previously said. I always seem to be getting suckered into 'fixer-upper' relationships, now even friendships!!! Gawd!
Dandylion, your post was very comforting. I identify completely with your quote from 'co-dep no more'. And I find the saying 'no good deed goes unpunished' was absolutely written for codies!
I think I need to work on myself as SK previously said. I always seem to be getting suckered into 'fixer-upper' relationships, now even friendships!!! Gawd!
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Its so true though isn't it!!! lol
I have been thinking a lot lately about co-dependent relationships. Isnt it normal to want to help your loved one in pain? does it only become co- dependent when you realize there are no boundaries anymore, theres not much you wouldn't say no to, and your own life isn't your priority anymore.
It almost happens by accident, like sub-consciously. A bit like the frog in boiling water scenario.
I have displayed some seriously co-dependent behavior, particularly in my current 'relationship' with a classic text book love avoidant (sigh) and I don't know how the heck this happened.
I had no serious childhood trauma, no abandonment issues, parents who split when I was 10 but I had a good relationship with them, no abuse at all, popular at school, lots of friends.
I know HOW I became co-dependent but I seriously don't know WHY I did.
Sorry I think I have digressed from my original post - lol!
But it has got me thinking about all this which is a good thing I suppose and where better to thrash it out then here!!
I have been thinking a lot lately about co-dependent relationships. Isnt it normal to want to help your loved one in pain? does it only become co- dependent when you realize there are no boundaries anymore, theres not much you wouldn't say no to, and your own life isn't your priority anymore.
It almost happens by accident, like sub-consciously. A bit like the frog in boiling water scenario.
I have displayed some seriously co-dependent behavior, particularly in my current 'relationship' with a classic text book love avoidant (sigh) and I don't know how the heck this happened.
I had no serious childhood trauma, no abandonment issues, parents who split when I was 10 but I had a good relationship with them, no abuse at all, popular at school, lots of friends.
I know HOW I became co-dependent but I seriously don't know WHY I did.
Sorry I think I have digressed from my original post - lol!
But it has got me thinking about all this which is a good thing I suppose and where better to thrash it out then here!!
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It's not about figuring her out (nobody is a mind reader), it's about looking at why you continue to be friends with someone you don't particularly like or trust. I recommend Alanon ... it helped me a great deal.
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