evangeline068

Hello its me again. I am the one with 3 kids (8 boy, 6 boy, 4 girl).
My AH is moving out in a couple days. He needs to be out of the house before the court will rule on support and custody.
Right now he is still asking for 50% custody. So he is trying to demonstrate that he is not an alcoholic (at first he was still drinking in front of us - I think trying to demonstrate he had it under control, now he is for the last few days not drinking at all in front of us - perhaps under his councils advice).

I have been documenting documenting documenting, just like my attorney asked. I used to find empties hidden in the curbside trash or hidden in odd places in the garage. Now I can't find anything, but I don't spend too much time looking (not sure if I should or not - it takes energy to snoop super quitely when everyone is asleep and I am terrified he'll catch me).

He went to visit his Dad last Thursday night, for an early morning Dr appt on Friday, decided to stayed over Friday night (texted us from a bar - said he wasn't drinking beer - maybe he was drinking sometime else?) then he went to birthday party Saturday night (again said he wasn't drinking beer). His speech sounded a little slurred when he called to tell the kids good night - but its hard to tell if he's been drinking. He came home really late on Sunday which makes me wonder if he really did drink the night before (maybe wine?) because he didn't call til almost noon and didn't get back til almost 4 p.m. (his Dad only lives 45 minutes away).

As far as I can tell (if he is telling the truth about not drinking those three nights over this weekend), then he will have been on the wagon about 8 days now. Of course he is still staying up til 4 or 5 a.m. and sleeping really late in the day so I am still worried he is compensating by over taking his pills. He has begun hiding his pill bag so now that is hard to verify. I think he was drinking, but since he's out of sight, its something I cant' prove and his family would never tell me if he was.

So here's my dilemma.

What will the courts typically look for to demonstrate sobriety? Will the fact he is saying he's been sober a few weeks (it will be a few weeks by the time he is all moved out and we go back to court for a custody hearing) be enough? Would they honestly award him 50% custody even tho there is a risk that he is not recovered? I could never get him to admit he's got a problem so he's never been to AA. I doubt he's ever told his Dr. he has a problem either. How long does it take for someone to be considered "recovered"? I hear you are an alcoholic for life and should not drink at all anymore. This is something my AH doesn't agree with. His brother stopped going to AA and now has wine or a few beers with dinners again, my AH thought that was was fine since his brother wasn't getting drunk.



Like I said before he's not a violent drunk, he just doesn't seem to engage in life when he's drinking. He avoids everything and sleeps all day. I don't think its good for the kids to see that and I don't think he's really watching or caring for them when he stone cold asleep til noon. (not even sure how hell get them to school in the mornings). Its 5:30 a.m. where I am, and he just went upstairs to go to sleep. So once again, I'll be getting the kids up, fed and dressed and off to school, then heading to work (while he sleeps away the day).


So do you need to go cold turkey ? Can my AH have a few beers and not fall back off the wagon? I have never seen him off the drink for more than a couple weeks, so I am terrified that he will get 50% having been sober a few weeks and then start drinking all over again. His moving out really worries me, I will have no idea what he's drinking or taking when he is out of the house.

Anyone have to deal with this? How did you handle this once your partner/spouse was out of the house and you had kids to share?

Getting worried as time is running out...

Mountainmanbob

just a guess based on what I have seen in the courts over many years

usually not impressed with
one month or three months of proven sobriety
the courts have seen many go back to drinking in these early months

6 months of proven to the courts sobriety
we may have something here

0ne year of proven sobriety
the courts will usually give this one a big - job well done
now - keep doing what you have been doing

it's a proven to the courts fact
that more than 50 % will mess up again
and many times in a very short manner

yes - the courts know the well proven odds of a slip (if we wish to call it that)

Mountainman

Ruby2

I don't know what the courts look at but I understand your concerns. My AH has the same sleep pattern. I couldn't leave the kids alone with him as they would be virtually by themselves with no supervision even if he was physically under the same roof.. Mine are 8 and 5. He would be passed out asleep while supposed to be watching them. I would bring this up even if he is not drinking.

As for your other concerns, if he is an alcoholic, he is an alcoholic and should not be drinking any alcohol whatsoever. It doesn't go away. Just because his brother can now have a couple and stop doesn't mean that your husband can. And does he even know his brother doesn't drink more when he gets home or no one else is watching?

Someone else on here will have more suggestions than I can provide. As frustrating as it is keep doing what you are doing. Getting up with the kids, getting them dressed, fed and to school. The children and you need the stability and reliability. That is what I have been doing each and every morning before going to work myself. which reminds me that i have to get ready. You can do it!

Recovering2

This is a good question for your lawyer. But I think any reasonable person would want evidence, ie AA meetings, IOP program documentation, etc. To just say he's not drinking would not be enough IMO. Can't depend on the words of an A, they need to back it up with concrete action.

hopeful4

Hmmm...I am thinking a couple of things here. One is that if he is drinking or not is going to be your word over his unless he gets into actual trouble or you can prove it.

Might the courts be more concerned that because he sleeps all day he is unable to care for the kids. Also, if he is overtaking his meds than it is likely he is doctor shopping possibly? If that is the case, do you have access to his insurance documents to show that? Can you walk into the pharmacy and ask for a printout as his wife?

I really don't know but these are the things that popped into my head. Maybe the alcohol can just be a contributing factor if he is not doing his share and cannot take care of the kids.

I agree with the above post, speak to your attorney.

Good Luck.

CarryOn

Personally, I would not consider him sober at all. RAH made many "attempts" to quit before he was successful...he could quit for a few weeks at a time without an issue...went from daily drinker to binge drinker before he finally gave in. Also agree that an A cannot moderate...just doesn't work for them.

Disclaimer on the rest - no personal experience here, but some thoughts based on the experiences of people I know that have been in similar situations. Talk to your lawyer - have your game plan and give them every bit of information you can gather - it is their job to decide what to use and when. Can you request no overnight visitation or supervised visitation or to have the court appoint a guardian (someone that will manage the case by visiting AH's home, etc.)?

From others that have gone through similar experiences, the court may give him the custody until he screws up, so do your best to take care of your kids and provide a stable, loving home. Document what the kids tell you without fishing for it or expecting them to tattle on their father - like do they mention that daddy forgot breakfast because he was laying on the couch? Document what others tell you - school, friends, neighbors, relatives. Your lawyer can help you determine how to use it.

The courts do catch on to the reality of things, but it may take them a little longer. Without being too specific, a friend with a difficult & lengthy custody battle with XA felt they were getting the short end of the stick (and therefore kids too) by a few of the judge's decisions...at next hearing, the judge dismissed friend & XA's petitions, and awarded friend something WAY better that they never would have thought was possible given past decisions...the judge knew what XA was up to...just making sure friend was prepared to handle the situation. Crappy to have gone through it, but friend did the work and it paid off in the end.

I wish all the best for you and your wonderful children; may peace and serenity fill your home in the coming days.

evangeline068

Thank you all for your advice. I thought my AH had been on the wagon since a week before he moved out. He officially left on 1/15. However, we all took the kids to dinner last night (me , my AH, my AH's Dad and his sister).

My AH asked the waiter if they had any sugar free margarita mix for anyone that is doing low carb. The waiter said no, so my AH did diet coke instead.
So there it was, after all this arguing that he can't control it, he goes and asks for booze only 2 weeks into sobriety.
I thought since I hadn't seen piles of beer cans or bottles piling up the last week before he moved, that he was on the wagon. But now I am thinking he was just doing low carb. He's probably still drinking, but he's containing it to low carb fare.

Now I am really beginning to worry. My kids will eventually need to go stay with him half the time. I am pretty sure he is back to drinking or at least over taking his pills.
His place isn't set up for the kids yet so he was going to come up and visit the kids today at my house, and he's almost 3 hours late.

Questions maybe someone from here can help me with:
1. does anyone have experience with California laws and if you can require a parent to take alcohol or drugs screens when the kids are with the parents?

2. does the AH parent have to be proven to be an alcoholic to make this happen?

3. Also can we require that he let someone check out his home for alcohol and to look for un-prescribed medications before the children are required to stay with him? If he isn't a "diagnosed" addict how do you get the courts to at least pay attention and seek help in making sure the kids are not put in jeopardy?

I feel like so much of this is going to me my word against his.

I would have no problem letting him take the kids if he was in control of his life.
However, last night after dinner, he hung out at our home and he paid almost no attention to the kids and just spent the evening watching TV and drifting in and out of sleep, just like when he lived here.

So confused on the right things to do and how to get courts to recognize he's not ready to get the kids.

Guidance anyone?

peacesoul

oh Evangeline this is heartbreaking. I don't know CA (I'm in Northeast), but I'm a bit further along the process than you. Some of my experiences: the attorneys/court pay attention to numbers/logs, like when I was able to definitely say that of the last 60 days, husband was out all night X days and out till 11/12/1AM an additional number of days. Gave a clear picture that childcare and his partying lifestyle did not jive. So a personal record allows 'you' to very clearly state facts.
My husband went round and round about wanting our daughter overnight (I am understandably against that, as he literally has not woken middle/AM wakeup with her once in the last 8 months). When it came to our so-called 'Family Matters' court session, he was not willing to fight. Gave me 'whatever I want'. Didn't complete his forms, etc.
Our advisor counseled me a bit, said 'you know this is going to keep going', which I responded 'from what I'm learning, even in worse case 50/50, it's better to show the children a normal household 50% of the time rather than an A household 100% of the time.'
So my situation went right along with others saying that when the As realize what child caretaking really involves, they quickly back way off. Unless praise holy, they really do sober up. At which time a good parent-child relationship would be wonderful for all.
Make sure your word is strong. During one round table meeting, I noticed my hand was visably shaking. That still stops me, others have said and somehow you find strength to pull for your children's best interests. Much hope to you!

Hopeworks

Hi Evangeline,

Talk to your attorney about requesting that your husband carry a gps breathalyzer while he has the children that will require at least 4 blows a day (you can have the device set for more) and report to you and the court what his BAC is. It takes a photo of whoever is blowing to avoid cheating and will insure that your husband is at least sober while he has the children.

It does not insure recovery... that is an entirely different state than just being dry. But at least he won't be driving them drunk or passed out from intoxication. Being deprived of drink while he has the kids will put a huge damper on his desire for 50% custody if he isn't serious about sobriety! Usually the 50% request is about the $ not a desire to have a close relationship or care for their kids.

Time is your friend and if you know he is sober you will be less worried when they are with them. If he is chronically late getting them to school or passes out and isn't caring for them properly it will come out... get your kids cell phones so they have instant contact if they need you.

NoelleR

"...My AH asked the waiter if they had any sugar free margarita mix for anyone that is doing low carb. The waiter said no, so my AH did diet coke instead.
So there it was, after all this arguing that he can't control it, he goes and asks for booze only 2 weeks into sobriety."

You've gotten good info regarding.....talk to your attorney; talk to your attorney; talk to your attorney......so I won't join in on that....

However, you say he asked for a sugar free margarita mix. Margarita mix (sugar or sugar free) is NON-alcoholic (no booze in it); just like the diet coke he finally did order.

Just an FYI.

(o:
NoelleR

evangeline068

Thanks Noelle
You are totally right about the margarita mix. I started to get my hopes up when I read your comment. I thought maybe he really is dry now.

He finally showed up yesterday a little after 4. He stopped at a store to pick up some low carb beer, I was hoping it would be NA beer but unfortunately it was not.

I decided to check the recycle bag after he left to see if took his cans with him or if he'd left them behind. He wound up putting the cans in their own bag and he knotted it tight - assuming so our son (who's been recycling for allowance money) wouldn't see the beer cans. turns out he'd drank 12 Michelob lights and one Coors light (13 beers) while he was visiting. I don't know exactly how many hours this was over, guessing it was around a 7 hour period.
Perhaps to some that does not seem like alcoholic behavior, my AH would say it's not too much beer given the time span. However I couldn't imagine drinking 13 cans of anything in one 7 hour stretch.

I fell asleep after I put the kids to bed so I don't know exactly when he left. He didn't seem drunk so I am wondering if he ever was on the wagon at all? I figure if someone's been totally dry for several days, 13 beers in one evening would make you seem pretty sauced.?

I still don't understand so much of this disease or even worse how to handle custody.

Why would someone drink this much in front of their almost ex spouse , if their spouse has already said they think they are an alcoholic and they aren't ready to give them 50% custody? Perhaps he believes I will have to give him 50% since I can't definitively prove he's drinking and has a problem?

Maybe he's overconfident? Or perhaps he really doesn't want custody? But he'd rather say that bit@# took them from him rather than admitting he doesn't want them?

This is maddening sometimes!!!

CarryOn

Again, I have no kids so no personal experience here, but...

Your AH was coming over to spend time with the kids, right? And he felt it was necessary to drink 13 beers in a seven hour period while he was supposed to be playing with/caring for the children?

Maybe this isn't too much when you're hanging out with friends at a bbq all day and have no responsibilities to cover that day or the next. But this isn't the case. IMHO, this is not okay.

hopeful4

Advise from my attorney was document, document, document. I would photograph those beers with surrounding showing it was definitely at his home in his trash. He said to journal EVERY SINGLE THING. He also said that I have to stop thinking about it with my emoations and to let him do what I would pay him to do, fight for the right thing.

Sorry that is all I can pass along, but I am pretty sure the same would apply no matter what state you live in.