Newsflash: Psychiatrist says I AM the cause!
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When my AXH ended up in the ER with liver failure he told the attending with a straight face that he had a drink maybe twice a month. In reality, he hasn't had a sober night for 25 years.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Quacking at it's finest, for sure.
One of my best friends got a similar line of quacking from her narcissistic AH years ago, but she was completely gullible to it & young & had self esteem issues combined with blinding trust .... so she just accepted it at face value, figured it was part of her own damage (history of sexual/emotional abuse within her FOO) and went on living with him slowly sliding further into himself. By the time she really started to grow in her own therapy & challenge these kinds of quackery, she realized he'd literally bought himself years of unchallenged alcoholism & terrible manipulation based on that one single line of unsubstantiated crap.
One of my best friends got a similar line of quacking from her narcissistic AH years ago, but she was completely gullible to it & young & had self esteem issues combined with blinding trust .... so she just accepted it at face value, figured it was part of her own damage (history of sexual/emotional abuse within her FOO) and went on living with him slowly sliding further into himself. By the time she really started to grow in her own therapy & challenge these kinds of quackery, she realized he'd literally bought himself years of unchallenged alcoholism & terrible manipulation based on that one single line of unsubstantiated crap.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 216
Jarp
Two things
a) i find a lot of therapists let people come to their own conclusions. "how do YOU feel about that?
I often asked mine if he was just trying to build up my confidence. NOTHING that I ever did ever made him raise an eyebrow. It often felt like it was an hour session of back-patting. Although I ADMIT I DID have to pay for a back-patting those days and it was FINE with shelling out the moo-lah.
b) I agree with the majority here, the story you got from your AH is through HIS FILTER. I know one thing for certian. A good therapist or even a mediocre one will almost always recomend AA for poeple who may have a drinking problem, because they know that it's the most effective treatment, even with a big failure rate
and one more thing.
CARLOTTA---LATE NIGHT COFFEE THROUGH MY NOSE. BEST POST I HAVE EVER SEEN. THANK YOU FOR THE LAUGHTER,
Jarp, I hope that made you laugh. Your AH story is just as laughable. a crock of a word i cannot post here, i am sure. ****! see?
Two things
a) i find a lot of therapists let people come to their own conclusions. "how do YOU feel about that?
I often asked mine if he was just trying to build up my confidence. NOTHING that I ever did ever made him raise an eyebrow. It often felt like it was an hour session of back-patting. Although I ADMIT I DID have to pay for a back-patting those days and it was FINE with shelling out the moo-lah.
b) I agree with the majority here, the story you got from your AH is through HIS FILTER. I know one thing for certian. A good therapist or even a mediocre one will almost always recomend AA for poeple who may have a drinking problem, because they know that it's the most effective treatment, even with a big failure rate
and one more thing.
CARLOTTA---LATE NIGHT COFFEE THROUGH MY NOSE. BEST POST I HAVE EVER SEEN. THANK YOU FOR THE LAUGHTER,
Jarp, I hope that made you laugh. Your AH story is just as laughable. a crock of a word i cannot post here, i am sure. ****! see?
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Yes of course you are all right. I don't know that this is what the psych said. I can see that even if they discussed those things that they most likely came from my AH and not the psych himself.
Although what does concern me is that he is the psych that treated my AH in the past when he had an extreme bi-polar mania (or so he says) and ended up in a psych hospital. I KNOW I am hearing this filtered through my AH but it seems that the alcohol 'abuse' is always placed as a secondary issue. I know self medication and mental health issues often go hand in hand but it always seems that they talk moderation not abstinence. But maybe in treatment an individual has to decide that's the route for them rather than being told???
Even myself when I saw a psychologist a few years ago - she minimised my AH's drinking - when I said in 'good times' he'd drink maybe 1-2 bottles of wine a night she said "oh that's not that much"....
Although what does concern me is that he is the psych that treated my AH in the past when he had an extreme bi-polar mania (or so he says) and ended up in a psych hospital. I KNOW I am hearing this filtered through my AH but it seems that the alcohol 'abuse' is always placed as a secondary issue. I know self medication and mental health issues often go hand in hand but it always seems that they talk moderation not abstinence. But maybe in treatment an individual has to decide that's the route for them rather than being told???
Even myself when I saw a psychologist a few years ago - she minimised my AH's drinking - when I said in 'good times' he'd drink maybe 1-2 bottles of wine a night she said "oh that's not that much"....
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 216
Your psych is full of it too. "oH that's not that much????????"
ON which planet did these people go to school?
A good psych will also advise patients not to self-medicate
This is a Phychiatrist? or maybe a Psychologist? and MFCC? A 'therapist"
This sounds so OFF.
ON which planet did these people go to school?
A good psych will also advise patients not to self-medicate
This is a Phychiatrist? or maybe a Psychologist? and MFCC? A 'therapist"
This sounds so OFF.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I still remember the meeting with my AM's counselor during her first rehab trip. AM had lied through her teeth about our family situation (apparently we were gettingalong great, baking treats in preparation for Thanksgiving. AM hadn't cooked in probably 15 years.). When I told the counselor that she had lied about all of it, I was chastised for lying and deliberately trying to undermine her recovery. My jaw hit the floor. All of AM's problems were attributed to US, and she was basically given a free pass to drink or do whatever if she felt like things were just too stressful. Naturally, everything became stressful after that. Recovery is impossible if you aren't being honest, period. It just sucks when the supposed professional is buying into the crap or even encouraging it. Hopefully this is just your AH's quacking and none of it ever came out of the therapist's mouth.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by Booo 
Your psych is full of it too. "oH that's not that much????????"
ON which planet did these people go to school?
A good psych will also advise patients not to self-medicate
This is a Phychiatrist? or maybe a Psychologist? and MFCC? A 'therapist"
This sounds so OFF.
ON which planet did these people go to school?
A good psych will also advise patients not to self-medicate
This is a Phychiatrist? or maybe a Psychologist? and MFCC? A 'therapist"
This sounds so OFF.
He's actually quite well known here as he does forensic work as well.
I think its as others have said....I'm hearing it all filtered through my AH's addiction preserving mouth.
MY ex therapist was a psychologist (so not MD, cant prescribe drugs). I say her for about 15 sessions and then 'resigned' as she wasn't the right therepaist for me.
I've just had my 3rd session with a new therapist who I think I am better matched to.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by NWGRITS
I still remember the meeting with my AM's counselor during her first rehab trip. AM had lied through her teeth about our family situation (apparently we were gettingalong great, baking treats in preparation for Thanksgiving. AM hadn't cooked in probably 15 years.). When I told the counselor that she had lied about all of it, I was chastised for lying and deliberately trying to undermine her recovery. My jaw hit the floor. All of AM's problems were attributed to US, and she was basically given a free pass to drink or do whatever if she felt like things were just too stressful. Naturally, everything became stressful after that. Recovery is impossible if you aren't being honest, period. It just sucks when the supposed professional is buying into the crap or even encouraging it. Hopefully this is just your AH's quacking and none of it ever came out of the therapist's mouth.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 274
I agree with all the comments - it is HIS version of what the doctor said and he wants to overload the guilt for HIS drinking onto someone else. take care and don't let it get you down - easier said than done I know.
x
x
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by jarp
- I AM the cause of his drinking. Apparently he is drinking to avoid coming home, because he doesn't like being with me or the kids.
that (some) Psychiatrist
will feed their patients any line of bull
so as to keep them coming back
(if) your husband is telling you the truth
it's sad that a doctor would stoop that low !!!
MM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 151
Churchill once said " never bet on a loosing horse "
I agree with everyone else about the shrink being dead wrong . regardless the obvious question is why are you still with this guy , relationships are meant to be warm , fun , healthy, nuturing and symbiotic , yours dosnt seem to have any of these traits nor does it seem like it is going to anytime soon , nor does it even sound like your sure compassion and empathy are within his capabilities . if your not financially locked in I would strongly recomend looking at moving on , even if you are locked you still0should really wheigh things out . I havnt been sober that long but I rember what it was like and I remember I was happy , for me would rather Broke but be sober and have a potentiol to be happy then to be rich again but locked into that hell
I agree with everyone else about the shrink being dead wrong . regardless the obvious question is why are you still with this guy , relationships are meant to be warm , fun , healthy, nuturing and symbiotic , yours dosnt seem to have any of these traits nor does it seem like it is going to anytime soon , nor does it even sound like your sure compassion and empathy are within his capabilities . if your not financially locked in I would strongly recomend looking at moving on , even if you are locked you still0should really wheigh things out . I havnt been sober that long but I rember what it was like and I remember I was happy , for me would rather Broke but be sober and have a potentiol to be happy then to be rich again but locked into that hell
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Did the shrink say "It is all [your] fault?"
Maybe. But the pronoun use was somewhat different. The "your" in use was more likely about the A.
One day you may likely look back and laugh. I know that day is not today . . . yet.
Back when I first started Alanon I was sitting all trying to keep it together one day, and I only managed to get out one sentence past my "peanut butter mouth."
"What do you do when they say it is your fault?"
The whole room of Alanannies just stopped, stared, looked at me. And then they all just burst out laughing. I sat there looking around the room looking at them all laughing at me. Finally, one stopped when she saw my lips quivering like I was going to cry and yelled out --
"OH HONEY! WE HAVE ALL HEARD THAT BEFORE!"
Then they all went back to laughing. Not knowing what else to, after a little I started laughing, too.
===============
Back to what you are getting . . . .
What you are likely hearing is not just one lie, but rather layers of them
I am seeing at least three layers.
1. The lies the A told the shrink.
2. The lies the A told himself while he was pretending to listen to the shrink.
3. The lies the A came back and told you.
Not only is the A's not telling you the truth -- No One gets the truth.
=============
I guess re-framing the whole question and putting it more general for all of us . . .
Do A's have a "challenge" (understatement of the year) being honest?
Their own AA Big Book seems to think so. At least the As who do not make it to recovery do.
Check out the start of Chapter 5. "How it works."
-------------------
How it works
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
AA Chapter 5 How it works | AA | How it works|
Big Book On Line - Table of Contents
==============================
Bottom Line.
At this point, your A's Chances are Less Than Average.
Mrs. Hammer's Chances are Less Than Average.
But NONE of that is your or my problem.
I have three kids to raise in a Godly manner.
None of them are named Mrs. Hammer. So she is not on my list.
I do that by being a better me, Alanon, working the Program, Church, Prayer, and Returning Good for Evil.
Not by listening to lies. How 'bout you?
Maybe. But the pronoun use was somewhat different. The "your" in use was more likely about the A.
One day you may likely look back and laugh. I know that day is not today . . . yet.
Back when I first started Alanon I was sitting all trying to keep it together one day, and I only managed to get out one sentence past my "peanut butter mouth."
"What do you do when they say it is your fault?"
The whole room of Alanannies just stopped, stared, looked at me. And then they all just burst out laughing. I sat there looking around the room looking at them all laughing at me. Finally, one stopped when she saw my lips quivering like I was going to cry and yelled out --
"OH HONEY! WE HAVE ALL HEARD THAT BEFORE!"
Then they all went back to laughing. Not knowing what else to, after a little I started laughing, too.
===============
Back to what you are getting . . . .
What you are likely hearing is not just one lie, but rather layers of them
I am seeing at least three layers.
1. The lies the A told the shrink.
2. The lies the A told himself while he was pretending to listen to the shrink.
3. The lies the A came back and told you.
Not only is the A's not telling you the truth -- No One gets the truth.
=============
I guess re-framing the whole question and putting it more general for all of us . . .
Do A's have a "challenge" (understatement of the year) being honest?
Their own AA Big Book seems to think so. At least the As who do not make it to recovery do.
Check out the start of Chapter 5. "How it works."
-------------------
How it works
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
AA Chapter 5 How it works | AA | How it works|
Big Book On Line - Table of Contents
==============================
Bottom Line.
At this point, your A's Chances are Less Than Average.
Mrs. Hammer's Chances are Less Than Average.
But NONE of that is your or my problem.
I have three kids to raise in a Godly manner.
None of them are named Mrs. Hammer. So she is not on my list.
I do that by being a better me, Alanon, working the Program, Church, Prayer, and Returning Good for Evil.
Not by listening to lies. How 'bout you?
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Jarp...that is total quackery BS. The thing I learned about counseling with an addict is this..they lie or they leave out HUGE points. My AH would lead our counselor to believe he is a totally different person if I was not there. I am actually not going to be again, we have decided couples counseling is not good for us. I will be going individually because it is good for me (however I only tell the truth, I don't mislead the counselor in any way). If he decides to go...that is up to him.
He had been in counseling for several years. We never ever discussed what was said because it is not healthy and would just pi$$ me off I am sure because I am sure he did the same thing.
Remember, you cannot control what he says to the counselor but you can sure control how you react to it. Rise above it friend.
Hugs.
He had been in counseling for several years. We never ever discussed what was said because it is not healthy and would just pi$$ me off I am sure because I am sure he did the same thing.
Remember, you cannot control what he says to the counselor but you can sure control how you react to it. Rise above it friend.
Hugs.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
Originally Posted by jarp
Thanks both.
Yes one of my girlfriends reminded me of the same thing - his version - what he is filtering and 'hearing'. And obviously I am new in my own recovery and am finding it hard to not feel the finger pointing.
You are so right ladyscribbler....its never crossed his mind ONCE...he actually told me it never enters his brain that I might have my own thoughts and plans!!!
Apparently the other problem he has is that he is completely "unselfish" and needs to learn to put himself first.
I am PRAYING that the psych meant putting himself first over the alcohol.....bc if he meant in regards to the rest of life/ his family etc etc then I almost laughed out loud. He ALWAYS puts his own needs first.
Yes one of my girlfriends reminded me of the same thing - his version - what he is filtering and 'hearing'. And obviously I am new in my own recovery and am finding it hard to not feel the finger pointing.
You are so right ladyscribbler....its never crossed his mind ONCE...he actually told me it never enters his brain that I might have my own thoughts and plans!!!
Apparently the other problem he has is that he is completely "unselfish" and needs to learn to put himself first.
I am PRAYING that the psych meant putting himself first over the alcohol.....bc if he meant in regards to the rest of life/ his family etc etc then I almost laughed out loud. He ALWAYS puts his own needs first.
FWIW the last time my RAH was blaming all our marriage troubles on me and proceeded to tell me even his counselor told him I had serious issues. I said to him you mean the counselor you lied to and he says to me no, not that one, the other one. Seriously, I gave up with any hope of my RAH to "live in the light".
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by freya
Have you heard this one:
Q: How do you know that an alcoholic is lying?
A: His lips move.
I guess I'm wonderin' why you believe that the doctor -- assuming, of course that he actually really did see the doctor -- said what your AH says he said???
freya
Q: How do you know that an alcoholic is lying?
A: His lips move.
I guess I'm wonderin' why you believe that the doctor -- assuming, of course that he actually really did see the doctor -- said what your AH says he said???
freya
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