DoubleBarrel

Hammer, no offense taken, and yes, I am working the program. ,meetings, individual therapy, meditation, sponsor, steps, the whole nine yards.

When I first quit, i had zero intentions of using AA. I was hoodwinked into it,by some very clever individuals. (I kid, sort of...) turns out that while I have minimal cravings or desire to drink, I DO have a few (ahem) ok , quite a few character defects to consider and work on.

I am sober over a year and change, and the last several months (since june, really) I have been very even tempered, serene even. I feel better than I have in years, or perhaps in my life.

I am not trying to take her inventory, in fact, I am really interested in persuing a healthy life. If that includes her or not, it is ultimately her choice.

What I struggle with is that I am more than willing to devote significant time and resources to solving this problem, if there is willingness and a push in the right direction.

I am having trouble with how to respond to the anger directed at me, because honestly, I understand. Hell, one person I have trouble forgiving is myself.

But I cannot be a punching bag or constantly be berated for the past, because I cannot change it, and moving forward is integral to my survival.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Each and every one of you have helped me today, and given me loads to think about.

DoubleBarrel

I've been to alanon, and I don't really think it applies. I'm an addict through and through. But I deal with resentments, accountability, etc as a member of AA.

She doesn't go to alanon, because, and I quote, " those people are a bunch of pathetic losers"

eganier1

I'm new to this. H reached his 1 year sober free a while back and up to that was wonderful! Once he reached his goal he relapsed. The embarrassment alone is paralyzing him. He's back in denial. He's smarter and wiser than before and it's frustrating. I'm not as gullible though but it still hurts to see the one you love hide his relapse from his peers in AA and family...I want to scream from the top of my lungs..." you fake", but I must work on myself and how I handle things.

Hammer

good, thanks, on the no offense part.

Yeah, sounds like you are serious.

Welcome to being human.

You are going to have to be patient. We see that confusion among A's all the time on here. 1 year of dry does not suddenly make up for 10 years of drunken a-hole.

Understood. What they teach us on the other side of the wall is that even if ONLY *we* get "better," the household is 50% better. Same for you in this case.

Ok. Here is some more of what they teach us -- After acceptance (sounds like you have that), then we get Detachment -- which is sort of a fancy way of saying "Safe Distance." See, every weapon she (or anyone) has -- has a limited range. Punches are only an arm length. Verbal is limited to range of the voice. Speaking both metaphor and real. Get the distance required to keep you safe and out of range. Start working on that, now.

After that are Boundaries -- those are like fences that keep their crap out of your space.


As you know, that Attitude of Gratitude will carry you a LONG way.

Good job.

Good, in regard that you know and understand what is going on, then.

Back to your starting point. Will you (both) make it? Have studied that in some pretty serious depth, my brother. Only (ONLY) folks I see make it through this is where BOTH are BOTH Seriously Working their own program.

You can make your own life tolerable by doing the Acceptance, Detachment, Boundary thing -- but as a Couple -- You Will BOTH Have To Working A/The Program. Just what I have seen at the zoo.

As for where she is at -- covered this at tonight's meeting I attended. She sounds absolutely stuck on Resentment. It will stop and kill folks. She cannot likely overcome it herself. Guess you know this is a God Thing. That is what Step 1 looks like to us on our side of the wall.

Hammer

Yeah. Mrs. Hammer lies about her relapse about 7 years ago. Tries to pretend that it did not happen.

Just does not want to give up the pride and the chip date. Even lied to me and said her sponsor said she did not have to. Total lie. Has turned her whole program into a messed-up lie, now.

DoubleBarrel

I'm well aware of this, and am trying to keep it in mind.
The first ten months of sobriety was so abysmally horrible and long that it feels like finishing a death march. That's probably the disconnect. We're literally clinging for dear life every moment, and the other person is just carrying on, as they have for years, waiting for us to screw up.

As a result, it's been hard to know what's appropriate expectation wise.
Again the responses are VERY helpful.


And a minor update. She was calm tonight. Agreed to see a therapist individually that we have been to in the past, I readdressed the possibility of alanon, told her what AA was doing for me. She reiterated what she thought of the people there. i pointed out that she was still with me after all these years, which is her criticism of codependents. Not much answer there. She said she would think about it. It's a start.

Hammer

Yeah first 10 months with Mrs. Hammer back from rehab has been pretty horrid, too.

mkay, covered that in Alanon tonight, as well. Best Expectations are No Expectations. They say little Expectations lead to little Resentments, Big Expectations lead to Big Resentments. No Expectations lead to No Resentments. Pick your desired Resentment Level and Choose Your Expectation Level. (btw, none is supposed to be the right choice)

Yunno my big Resentment? Mrs. Hammer's rehab. We shut down EVERYTHING for her. Spent every dollar and dime we had. Time off work, on and on. NEVER HAS SAID THANK YOU EVEN ONCE. Most she has said -- "I did not really have to go" . . . Total A-Hole. Suppose I must have had some silly expectation, huh?

T is generally a good thing. Congrats.

As far as Alanon -- yeah, I thought *they* were all crazy, too. Maybe they are, maybe not, at this point I do not care, as I now see many are saner than me. Please for your sake and hers, do not try to debate it. This is not some game of Crushing Logic.

Most people wind up going to Alanon -- just like AA -- because the pain of not going becomes greater than the pain of going. We are ALL miserable, crying, raging freaks when we check in. AND We Hate That. Does that make sense? Would you want to be one of us? Neither do we. She really (really, really) does not want to experience that. NONE of us do. As long as she can hide out behind the Resentment, Rage and Hate -- she thinks she does not have to.

But this battle is not between You and Her. Just as Your battle was not between You and Her. This is all a God Thing. Just keep being the nicest, best Double Barrel you can be, and let God do His thing.

Sing Along with Mo T?

==================

Mother Teresa's Anyway Poem

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and your God;
It was never between you and them anyway.

involved

DoubleBarrel
For me, it wasnt so much the resentment and anger as the lack of trust and waiting for the lies and drinking to show up again. I also had no desire to go to AlAnon...wasnt interested in being with someone I had to be detatched from! Recovering ABF has though, invited me to attend a few AA meetings with him, and I enjoyed the accepting and careing atmosphere very mich and heard a lot of things that applied to my situation as well as BF's! So I learned enough to peak my interest in an AlAnon meeting! As I sat in the parking lot of my forst AlAnon meeting, I had feelings of embarrasment and humiliation as well as fear of admitting I may need some help. But in I went! A big step for me! And although that group didnt click with me they do say to try 6 meetings before making a decision. I will try another location soon. But I guess for me getting into the recovery/meeting frame of mind via AA helped me to change my views and support my RABF at the same time! Good luck with your recovery

SteppingStone

My recovering alcoholic/addict boyfriend of 5 years moved out 3 weeks ago. I am devastated. I found CA meetings for him & he has been clean & sober for 7 months, which I am so grateful for. At the start of his recovery, he heard a lot of people say it's difficult to be in relationships and maybe we should have a break whilst he concentrates on his recovery but he decided against it, saying that he couldn't do it without me. I was so happy & touched that he was openly telling people that he wanted me by his side. Now, 7 months on and he moved out saying that he needs to concentrate on himself and his recovery and, although he loves me, he doesn't want me to put my life on hold and doesn't know if he'll ever be back.

I'm devastated! After all my hard work & tolerance, he's just up & left me. What did I do to deserve this? I love this man with all my heart & thought that our lives were supposed to get better now. I'm so heart broken and confused. I've since read in a lot of Forums, that this seems to be a common thing.

I tried a couple of Al-Anon meetings but didn't feel welcomed. They were very cliquish & somewhat intimidating. ! meeting was an Adult Children meeting and the other was a monthly Step meeting so I was like a fish out of water & didn't really feel like I fitted in.

My RAXBF spoke to me this morning and he is going to borrow money from his brother to pay for the van I recently bought him then we will have no contact. The papers for the van will be signed over on Tuesday, providing his brother agrees to lend him the cash, then that will be the end of our 5+ years relationship. Its like a countdown timer and I am dreading it. I don't know how to cope. I helped him get to where he is today, stuck by him through the worst and now its like he doesn't want me to be part of his best.

feeling-good

SteppingStone - just wanted to say hi - I live in Scotland as well :-). Hammer suggested this thread to read through. I will come back to read more thoroughly later on.

ellaj

What happened? After 17 years of hell, the line was drawn in the sand. The kids and I told him to choose, we can't take it anymore. Keep drinking or lose your family.

Are you still together? Yes, still together. He is approaching 6 months sobriety.

How did you cope with the changes that accompanied their new lifestyle? The changes are really hard because I feel like I've lost control which seems ridiculous- but I mean control to say as knowing what to expect, identifying patterns, predicting his level of drunkenness. Now I have no idea what's going on I feel shut out completely because AA sponsor/meetings have him where he shares with them and not with me. It is slowly getting better, but I still wonder if the other shoe will drop. I can't completely trust in the fact that he will stay sober indefinitely. I proceed with caution.

What did you do to get over the past, and what does that look like? I haven't gotten over the past, but I am beginning to allow myself to move on from it. It's paralyzing to keep reliving it and to keep waiting for the apologies and the amends. I still want that but I will go on whether I ever get that from him or not. I don't know what our future holds. I hope sobriety.

Hammer

Well then . . . GOOD!

Now gets ye to Alanon!

Really. Go to Alanon.

We will be waiting. Generally good coffee and some good company.

Git. To. Alanon.

Not pressing this too much, am I?

ps, you never did have control.

Yep. Caution is due.

For better or worse . . . I study things. To obsession. I am a Research Engineer, it is what I do.

Here is what I have studied and found to be true.

The couples THAT DO MAKE IT -- BOTH are BOTH Working Their OWN Programs.

Likely the same for you and me.

Hammer

Might be a blessing. Really hard to tell how the road(s) and path(s) lead.

So sorry on that.

Maybe try again?

Sounds like some Step 11 stuff would do you well about now.

CodeNameGiggles

What happened?

I've been with my husband for 15 years, we've been married for 11 years. We have two small children.

My husband was always a heavy drinker. When I met him, it was the lifestyle of our fellow students. Then it was the lifestyle of young adults with jobs but no kids. Then...he just drank more and more heavily. As I got pregnant with our first, the stress from lack of boundaries, mismatched expectations, etc., caused him to drink heavier (per him) and by the time I was pregnant with our second, he was drinking a lot - in the open he was drinking A LOT and there was more he was hiding - he attempted suicide, went through detox, rehab, and outpatient, picked up drinking within 6 months. Six months ago, he went to a conference, went on a bender, got outrageously drunk, embarassed himself, cheated on me....and decided AA was finally for him.

He has since restarted step work and committed to recovery.

Are you still together?

Yes. But with what happened this time around, since we're healing not only from his addiction issues but infidelity as well, we are together with conditions.

How did you cope with the changes that accompanied their new lifestyle?

I want to be honest. After his first go round with recovery, I was incredibly resentful. Here was someone who was abusing alcohol around my infant and was telling me what an amazing husband and father he was while passing out and leaving me to be the sole parent, the sole partner in the marriage, the sole responsible person for bills, and he attempted suicide, lost his job, and had all this attention on him for "how amazing he was doing" while I was picking up the pieces of my shattered life. And he was all over how amazing he was. I knew it wasn't going to be an overnight change, but when there was no change, my resentment just built and built.

This second time around...it hasn't been easy, but in a completely different way. He's trying to be a better person, a better spouse, a better father. There is a lot of pain to heal from, and when I agreed not to kick him out of my house for both the relapse and his actions, I agreed to work on our marriage with him, not on my own. However, this time, one of the biggest differences is my husband is acting, not telling me what he should be doing, not telling me how awesome he is for not drinking, not getting angry over the things he should be doing without constant praise - he's just doing.

Much like your spouse, in the beginning, it was hard for me to say anything to him. Prior to his first detox, opening my mouth was usually the start of me telling him what bothered me and the long slippery slope to it being my fault and a lot of ugliness on his part. It wasn't worth opening my mouth. Opening up to him, letting him try to fix things when they bother me, that's been a tough road. I'm not always good about it.

Also, I'm not in Al Anon. I do see a therapist. My husband and I talk about the things he has learned in AA. I've also learned a ton from reading here.

What did you do to get over the past, and what does that look like?

I'm still not over the past. We're working on it. Him being the "man of action" rather than the "man of words" helps with that a lot.

How do you respond to the belittling and anger? A lot of times, in the beginning, I'd get so angry and mean because I wanted to hear something more than "I can't change the past." I know that, deep down, but I wanted something more than the *hanging head* "I'm sorry" boo hoo story...I wanted him to restore my faith in him. I wanted him to assure me that he wasn't going to be like that again. I was looking for something for him to acknowledge MY pain, and the issues he caused to ME, and to show some remorse for the pain he inflicted on me...instead it was still all about him until I got ugly, which solved for absolutely nothing.

All that said, our marriage is in a better spot than it may have ever been right now. He's a father, he's a partner, he's set boundaries with his parents, he's modified his behavior. I wish I didn't have to walk the road I did to get to this point. On another site I go to for the infidelity issues, they say it often takes 2-5 years to heal from the betrayal of infidelity, and in many ways, alcoholism at least has some things in common with infidelity...that sense of betrayal over him choosing alcohol over me, over our marriage, over our children...I don't see how the healing process, even with Al Anon and working the steps, would be much different for the spouse of an alcoholic. That's just my own opinion.

allforcnm

What happened?
My husband and I had known each other for several years, then married for several years when he suffered a sports injury, had multiple surgeries, rehabilitation, and ended up abusing his pain meds, became addicted after he went back to work and found some guys there who supplied him. There were no drug or alcohol issues before this, and none in either of our families. At first I think it was all fun and games for him, sort of a rebellion type of attitude. It started affecting me because he would stay out late night after night, started lying, and it just wasn’t the marriage I wanted. So I told him to go do his thing until he was done and then he could come home. Never thought he would really get addicted, and thought he would come home in a few weeks. Nope. He was working, made good money, leased a nice place, had an affair, and was gone a year before he got help.

Rapid detox, 3 month Non-12 Step Rehab based on private therapy, cognitive behavior approaches, marriage counseling for both of us started on the 6th week, my own private counseling. All of it worked together to heal, restore our family (our son was an infant at the time he started rehab).

Are you still together?
Yes. He has been clean now for 1.5 years. We have grown closer, have worked a lot on communication, continued marriage counseling for the whole first year, I tapered off my therapy sessions, he tapered down also but still goes on a regular basis.

How did you cope with the changes that accompanied their new lifestyle?
I think we all change and grow regardless of addiction. My husband hasn’t made too many changes, more like reverted back to the life he was living before addiction. He never participated in AA/NA, has no friends in recovery, does stay in touch with a few people from rehab though. He does his therapy sessions, manages stress better, eats better, works out and has healthy hobbies in his spare time, is a great father to our son. So changes have not been that hard for me in that regard. His rehab luckily focused a lot on family, and healing the whole family.

What did you do to get over the past, and what does that look like?
Marriage counseling helped us a lot. It took me a while to get past things that happened during what I now call “our missing year”. The affair, I was considering divorce by the end of that separation, had started seeing someone but never stopped loving my husband, had a lot of emotions to deal with, fear of the future, learned a lot about addiction overall. I feel happy now, and I have a lot of respect for my husband for fighting a good fight against his addiction. Even if he relapses that wont change for me. I feel closer to him in a lot of ways, feel like we have been through a really big challenge and survived it. Our goal now is just to live life, raise a happy and healthy family, and do our best to stay healthy ourselves.

On a personal note: I would try to encourage your wife to get private counseling, and when she is ready to do marriage counseling. I would not push her to do Alanon if she is not interested in it. It is not for everyone and that is in fact OK.

I really think it works best if you can focus on communication. It sounds like she has a lot of pain, anger, fear built up and it would do her good to talk about it. I always felt like therapy was a safe place. I could go at my own pace, and what I found was the answers were inside me all along, and I was able to see things clearly, find what was important with the help of my therapist. Marriage counseling had so many benefits and sped up healing for both of us. But both people have to be open to it. I think if one person goes in and expects to place all the blame for marital troubles on the other (due to addiction for example) that will slow things down. No one is perfect. I did a lot of things I regretted during our “missing year” and it was easy to blame my husband, but in the end it was how I dealt with things that caused my problems. We focused on interdependence in marriage counseling which is the core of a healthy relationship, working together, sharing, but still recognizing our individual needs.

Booo

Wow this thread takes me back. It would have been my anniversary with my XRAH just a few days ago. We were both drinkers when we met. We were young it was the 80s, and we did a lot more than booze. When I was around 29 I had the worst hangover of my life and had to go to work. I decided then and there I was done with it all...drink, coke, the occasional speed.

I had done it all recreationally and thought he had too. Oooooh, look how wrong I was!

I was over employed, he was under employed. Which eventually meant he didn't feel he had to work at all. I don't really know when I realized he was so rigid in his temperament, but he said some HORRIBLE things to me in front of other people. that I was stupid...no...make it all caps..I was STUUUUUPID, in this long whine in front of my best friend...for putting a glass plate in the oven. I don't do well with being shamed. I immediately started backing him up..oh My god! How could I be so stupid to put a plate in the oven. What was WRONG with me, oh god I am an idiot.
My friend quickly pulled me aside, outside, and said to me "here is one thing you need to know..you are not stupid...it was a PLATE and you wanted to warm something UP..we have ALL done it 100 times"

unexpectedly... I got pregnant, he told me to have an abortion. We had been married 6 or 7 years at that point. And the horrible Codie in me agreed to it. Somehow his words...well....that was the last thing I expected.
god ....just remembering tears me up.
ALone with myself, I had smiled, looked down and said "hello baby" acknowledging I had a life inside of me. his reaction devastated me. He did not even go with me.
No, he went to his parents for thanksgiving.
But having an AF , I knew what it was like to be tough. I prided myself on how tough I was, I worked in a traditionally man-heavy field and held my own...hell, i blew more than 3/4 of them away...so I thought that would be just something I would deal with too. I was a tough broad.

His drinking and joblessness continued to be an issue. When I would complain at 2 or 3 in the morning that his blaring of Led Zepplin was keeping me awake, he would strap on the headphones so I would not hear it. and just sing...and play the drums.

He took some odd jobs and was away a lot, which never bothered me, I still had love for this man, as in many ways he was good to me...he was handsome, his family had money (although he did not),we took wonderful vacations, we had in the past had a blast doing the whole Hollywood scene together. I always remembered the early years when there was a lot of love and laughter and fun.

I chose not to remember the hidden stash of porn, his cruel words and his endless "helping" of a co worker. A woman he seemed to be a bit too available for early in our marriage, and I knew his infatuation with her which just about destroyed me. He denied it and then and it was YEARS and years later when i found an old journal of mine which I guess in a drunken stupor he mistook my for his and wrote in it about wanting to by a ring for her....a ring. I had paid for my own engagement ring so that one hurt... Reading those words .5 years after the fact.

I withdrew from the life style which came with my job because it always came with an open bar. And deep into my own co-issues, I did not know what else to do. I was wracked with shame. Wracked.

Still I decided to start doing things for myself..I went to the gym, Yoga, went to therapy, I took night classes until he got a new job. this one required drug testing and he was very very lucky for a long long time.
One afternoon, after he had come home with a bottle of jack Daniels and was ready to settle in for a long weekend, I said..."I need to talk to you about something" ..it was going to be that jack in his hand (not the first convo, about but he had never said he was ever going to quit and and never tried.l had never asked him to stop, )before i could get the words out of my mouth he said "if you are pregnant I am outta here"
I don't remember who punched the hole in the wall. I really don't.
It was that which made me think the thoughts for the first time for REAL.
I was done. I just knew it. I was done.

That night at work he was called for a random pee test on the job and was busted. He was so drunk on his overnight trip away from home that he had also gone home with a woman he had met at a bar. I had never ever suspected him to be a cheater. Ever. He swore nothing had happened as he was so drunk he could not get it up. That was supposed to make me feel better.
Catch-meet 22.
then the employer decided to send him to rehab.
But it was too late for me.
I immediately got a sex free boyfriend. True. I would not have sex with him while I was living with my husband, but we dated, we held hands and went to movies and dinner, we went to plays and walked on the beach, we were chaste. We slept together without sex.

Xs counselor told me it would mean EVERYTHING if I would just be there for the rehab...go to the alanon meetings at the rehab, join the group, come to family day. I did all of those things. The boy friend came and went after a few months. I did have sex with him a few times once my husband was out of the house, I confess. Me =far from perfect.

I think it was just a few days after his rehab started...he may not have been an inpatient quite yet, he showed up and the door, wearing a tie, a dozen roses in his arms, "I am ready" he said, "to be your husband, to be a father, to be whatever you want me to be".

But it was just too late. I cried and I cried and I cried for hours.

Why now? Why was it coming when I had just decided to step out of this madness. Why was he suddenly the wrong man doing the right thing.? I did not trust it.

Still, I went for his rehab, I visited his sober house I continued al anon for quite a long while.

He was ALWAYS getting up in my program.

I continued yoga, and he insisted that I was obviously empty and looking for something I would not find outside of alanon. I wanted to punch I him in the face. He could/would NOT stay on his side of the street. I found a group I liked and stuck with them a long time.

I stayed in touch with my husband, actually hoping I could rekindle something....he was staying sober.n I was impressed at his progress.

I was not thrilled about his holier than though attitude these days, but I had seen him much worse, and he always had a bit of an entitlement thing going on anyway.

My Codie self, afraid of setting him off, gave him the house. The one I bought and paid for for years while he drank and not much more. I just gave it to him. I have only recently accepted that I will never get that back, not a penny of it.

He lives there with his new wife....and he's sober now for a million years. He has never relapsed. Not once. Maybe part of that is because I really did detach. He's a rich man now.

I am doing better financially,day to day but his parents were both killed and he inherited everything.
Maybe my case is different. I did not stick around for the ups and downs of sobriety. I never though he would have it this long.

I am now in another dysfunctional relation ship with an AH ( or long time SO). It's obvious that I stopped my program toooo early.
I am so sorry? What was your question again? Lol
Excuse my rant. So crazy what your questions brought back up for me.

I wish you such a better ending. There is probably a lot to forgive that you may not even know she remembers.

KateL

I have just found this a link to this thread on another thread and wondered if I could chip in. I am 10 years recovered and had a lot of grief from the other half for many years after I got sober. Everything that went wrong in his life was my fault. Things that had happened many years beforehand were always thrown into the mix, even if the argument in hand had absolutely nothing to do with my previous drinking. I am more than aware of what happened in the past although dwelling on it too much led to guilt, guilt led to me going straight back to the bottle at the beginning so I had to abandon that dangerous emotion. Most of my family were just grateful I had recovered, especially after many months/years when their trust was regained and after that they gave it little thought. In my opinion that was healthy. I refused to be a whipping boy for my ex who also drank and gambled. In the end I told him it would probably be for the best if he left. There was too much resentment so he did. Also I was never an AA person, so if he had gone to al anon (which I'm not really familiar with) that wouldn't have worked either because my recovery program was entirely different so I imagine there would have been conflict there. I wonder do most family and friends that attend al anon have spouses that attend AA, does it normally go hand in hand? Thanks in advance, your insight would be useful x