smtowngirl

I am like a broken record with my AH, "if you drink one more time..bla bla, empty treat after empty threat....
WELL, I am going to create a boundary list for myself and my AH that I feel I will be able to stick with, maybe if it written out and he can see it that will make it more concrete as well. I get that he won't quit until he is ready and i know I am not ready to move on or out yet, so this is what i am working with, am i just fooling my self? Has anyone else done this?

Boundaries for my AH

If you drink around the kids you will be asked to leave the house until you can sober up. If you can not drive I will take you to your parents or where ever else you would like to go that does not serve alcohol. Drinking on saturday and sunday afternoons will no longer be tolerated.

If you drink at night don't expect to sleep in the same bed with me, I can not stand the smell of your booze breath, and your drunken snoring keeps me up all night and makes me think of all sorts of terrible things so stay on the couch if you must drink.

I understand that your alcoholism is a disease and can not control it, I did not cause it and I can not fix it but I can insist that you get help to continue to be a part of our family and to continue living with us. I need you to go to One on one counseling 1 time a week and go to AA meetings at least one time a month.

You will not drink and drive. This is a deal breaker you have already gotten one DUI and totalled a car, next time it could be worse. If this happens you will be finding somewhere else to stay. I make myself sick sometimes worrying about all the different things that could happen, I will not worry about this any more.

Hammer

Sounds good by me.

From what I follow of the Boundary Black Belts -- They always put them in the context of what *we* will or will not do -- not so much what the A must or must not do . . . but sometimes, to me, those almost seem like word games.

Here is an example. With me staying on My Side of the Boundary Line. I am using it with Mrs. Hammer and her Lying Addiction.

Me to Mrs. Hammer -- I cannot stop you from all the lying. That is all on your side of things. However My Boundary is I will tell the Truth and No Longer Cover when any of the lies come up or are presented to me.

So it does not stop her from lying at all. Might even increase, as now I have seen/heard some lies to cover lies that were generated to cover first round lies.

But I no longer have to wonder what to do. Simple. I just tell the truth.

Like I say -- yours sounds good by me. You know what you want and do not want and what you will tolerate and not tolerate. And Good Enough, Today beats the hell out of Perfect, Tomorrow.

Super!

AnvilheadII

i understand where you are trying to go here, but those are really RULES not boundaries....

a boundary would be more like - my children and i deserve to live in an addiction/alcohol free environment. if you continue to drink i will ask you to remove yourself from the home.

a boundary doesn't try to place blame or denegrate or CONTROL the other individual, it merely states what you are willing and/or NOT willing to accept in the behaviors of others, and what the plan is to enforce that.

telling an alcoholic when they can and can't drink, what they can and can't do is pretty much a waste of time. and that includes driving, unless you forcibly take the keys from him or disable his vehicle.

MsPINKAcres

((stg))

I think you are really doing well at trying to limit you & your children's exposure to Ah when he is actively drinking ~ It's a very healthy place to start taking good care of you & them.

Just a little of my e, s, & h from my boundaries setting experiences & lessons ~

I learned that just as I couldn't make my now exah or my daughter stop drinking or drugging ~ I also couldn't make them adhere to my boundaries.
My boundaries ended up being more for me.

Such as
If we attend a family function or a party, I will drive my own vehicle so that I may leave when I want - this way if you partake in too much alcohol or take too many pills ~ I am not responsible for you. My days of begging a "drunk" to not drive or come home stop today,
If you choose to drink or under the influence of your DOC, the grandkids and I will leave the house. (I know we shouldn't have had to leave our home - but my exah refused to leave - so rather than argue - we left)
Because of your poor choices regarding drinking & driving - you are no longer covered on my insurance and are not allowed to drive my vehicle.

For me - I learned that it was healthier for me to have a plan (an action for me to take) for when he crossed my boundaries - because I had a strong feeling nothing was going to change in his actions. Sadly I was correct. Nothing changed in him and nothing has since I left.

Do what is healthy & best for you!

Just a few suggestions - take what you like & leave the rest!

pink hugs!

smtowngirl

Good point AnvilheadII, that is why I posted them was for feedback and advice, I don't want to be threatening but I do want to make it clear that our needs as a family are known, that our kids needs are priority and that his drinking is no longer going to be the focus of my attention. (though I spend an aweful lot of time on it)

Florence

Here's what I would revise:

You can't control anything else in the original, including his feelings, his reactions, or his behavior. All you can control is what you will allow in your life and how you react when he behaves in unacceptable ways.

dandylion

I agree with Anvilhead and MsPinkAcres, as well as Florence. Think in terms of boundaries as compared to rules. Like: If "x" occurs, then I will do such and such.

Make sure that you establish boundaries that you can and will enforce. Otherwise, they are just hollow words to the alcoholic.

***You don't necessarily have to announce boundaries unless you want to. Action on your part is the only requirement.

dandylion

smtowngirl

Florence- when I first read your post I thought "boy that is harsh" and then the more I thought about it I realized, your way of revising them is harsh but direct and to the point, no hand holding there, very cut and dry, no wiggle room for interpertaion or manipulation.

CarryOn

Good for you that you are ready to start setting boundaries...and you know what you want.

As stated by others, boundaries are about you. I think of it kind of like a security system - you set them up, can alert others it is there if you want but do not have to, it protects you with consequences if they are crossed, and you do have the ability to modify if you decide it is necessary.

I'll throw out a couple of mine for when RAH was active in his addiction:

• I will not engage in conversation, argument, etc. with AH when he is or has been drinking.
• I will not sleep in the same room with AH when he has been drinking (I could usually tell him to sleep in the guest room & he did, so I was lucky there.)
• I will not ride in a car AH is driving if he has been drinking.

The big consequence for AH was he didn't get my attention or company. He didn't like it - I can remember one night when he refused to eat dinner because I did not want to eat with him because he had been drinking. Fine, your an adult, do as you please. I generally stayed in another room of the house when he was drinking.

Ultimately, I did end up kicking him out of the house in March. We're now gradually working our way back to him moving in again, but there's no rush on it. Recovery is a long process, as I'm learning.

honeypig

smtowngirl, I certainly struggled w/the difference between boundaries and rules in the past (and still do sometimes!). As others have explained, it's the difference between what I will do to keep myself safe/sane, the actions I will take that make boundaries and the expectations I try to place on others that makes rules. The former works as well as I make it work. The latter pretty much doesn't work, period.

So glad to see you here discussing things--sounds like your path is starting to become a little clearer already.

Recovering2

Good job on thinking this all through! A lot of this is learning how to not "react" to things, but to act in a responsible manner no matter what the A is doing. That often takes a little planning!

Boundaries are not for your AH. Boundaries are for you. You don't have to announce them to anyone. As long as you know what they are, and as long as you stick to them, they will become evident to the A. Florence's suggestions for wording your boundaries is dead on the money. Keep it "I" focused.

When I first started setting boundaries, I didn't make my A aware of my "list". But I followed through in my actions when boundaries were crossed. He noticed! His reaction was to get worse for a couple of weeks, tried really hard to pull me into an argument or keep my attention. So if that happens don't be surprised. My counselor taught me that it's perfectly fine for the A to have their reaction to our boundaries, doesn't mean we have to change anything.

I'm happy you're looking at taking care of you.

anona

This thread is the most helpful thing I've ever read, thank you all for sharing.

lizw

Dam good thread.

I am currently oh holiday with my new partner and experiencing medical problems from an on going condition that I have. I went to bed early tonight and had a shower etc to relax.

He went out to do what a lot of people do on holiday - have a good time. He went out for dinner, went to a bar and watched sport. There would have been a time in my life when this greatly offended me as I could not look after myself and expected everyone else to do to.

But anyway, he got back a few hours ago drunk and somehow locked himself in the bathroom and could not get out. I was so tired and half asleep I had no idea what was happening. All i knew was he was just making a lot of noise. Did not how much time passed either but after awhile he got himself out, woke me up and announced what had transpired.

Maybe I have a morbid sense of humour but I found it sort of funny however am slightly angry he hasn't taken into account how sick I am and that his behaviour woke me up. He's asleep now and i am wide awake as part of my medical problems include insomnia.

But tomorrow we will be having a conversation about what happened that will probably go along the lines of 'if u want to come home drunk to the hotel and make a ruckus I will be getting another room so I can sleep.'

My partner is a lovely, generous man but sometimes he's an idiot.

He did a similar thing the other night when I went to bed early and I told him I was going to bed and turning off my phone next thing I know when I am nearly asleep he's ringing me and I am furious - thinking boundary pushing so and so. I answer the phone to find out he's at a casino won all this money and is ringing to say I can have it which again made me laugh as he'd done something nice for me by giving me the money.

Boundaries aren't rules but standards of behaviour I set for myself to keep me safe but sometimes because I grew up with dysfunction I really don't know a threat when I see it or I suffer from the idea I can control other people's behaviour.

It has taken me a long time to learn how to look after myself and see my reactions and feelings come from within me and outside events trigger these.

I think I've spent a lot of time thinking other people's reactions are a reflection of myself too which is a new awareness and something I am working through.

Florence

Acceptance was a difficult lesson to learn for me. I thought that if I said the right thing the right way that eventually my STBXAH would hear me. I told him what I needed and wanted over and over again, I cried, beat my chest, and made rules and ultimatums. And still he did whatever he wanted to do. Sometimes he would lie to me or hide things from me to make me believe he heard me, and it gave me hope, but he was an active alcoholic and very good at the kind of manipulations that would have me feeling good long enough to forget the last offense before he blew up the marriage again. A month would go by, maybe a little longer, between incidents. Joining SR and having the ability to go over my old posts helped me put together a timeline of the jobs lost, the disappearances, the relapse vacations, the fights over money, the missing money, the promises and promises blown, the holidays ruined. Etc.

Eventually I had to accept that this was the way it was, and I couldn't evaluate the merits of staying together on his potential, but rather what he offered me today. What he offered me today (and a year ago when I finally split with him for good) was very little. A lot of platitudes, no work, no money, very little help with the adult duties of life, and decades of secrets, manipulation, cheating and other dark things ahead of and behind him.

He certainly has the capacity to change, but me sticking around to wait it out would have killed me and continued to enable him.

So it became very cut and dry. Eventually I decided that I would no longer live with an active alcoholic. He could get and stay dry for awhile but always fell off the wagon. I worked my program, and I told him I would support him as long as he was in recovery. He stopped attending meetings, never did get a sponsor. One day, when I realized he was into another relapse, I asked him to leave, changed the locks on the doors, and he's been gone since. I was ready -- it hurt and I still miss the man I married -- but I won't live with an active alcoholic, and I certainly won't make my kids live with an active alcoholic.

How is he today? Don't really know, don't care. He's still enmeshed with his parents, unemployed, no job or educational prospects, claiming everything is fine. He found new enablers. Alcoholics are crafty.

isitme

I second and third that this is an amazing and very helpful thread! Thank you!

PaperDolls

Anvilhead stole what I was gonna say.


I was also thinking -- ask yourself what the goal of these 'boundaries' is. What's the motive?

smtowngirl

I would say for me, it is my own sanity, knowing that I have set a firm line and if it is crossed I know I have made it clear what will and won't be tolerated therefore giving me further confidence to carry through with whatever consequence is set in place.
Everyones reasons are going to be different I would imagine but we all seem to have a common thread.

Carol Star

Any sponsor in AA if and when HE decides to go would say daily meetings.....his meetings and recovery would need to come first- " anything put in front of recovery you lose in the end......" is said.......

healthyagain

What I've learned from my AH is, stop talking and just do it. And even when he gets nicer (for whatever reason), stick to what you were doing and planning to do.

LightInside

Ah! Perfect! I love this thread and I was looking at it little by little while I did other things. How awesome that the last post I read is from healthyagain, "If he gets nicer..." I have been so on-the-fence about proceeding with my proposed parenting plan/demanding supervised visits with my XA/Baby's Dad. He keeps on telling me he's sober now. Today he said that his not-drinking is court ordered after an arrest he had 6 weeks ago. I just know he's drank since then. Still, when he says he's sober, I keep believing but getting all suspicious (Still pretty young in my recovery). I am going to take, "If he gets nicer," and say also, "If he gets into another one of his dry phases..." I can't count how many times he's told me he's sober now. Never lasts more than 3-5 weeks. I can trust what he's done for 7 years better than what he says he's doing right now/for the last few weeks.