Springs

I totally accept two of the three Cs - I definitely can't cure it or control it. Reality has made that abundantly clear to me.

I'm struggling with the other C though: cause. I don't think I'm the sole or even main cause of this disease in my H - it's a family disease, and there are genes, he has bad learned patterns and made some terrible choices along the way. But looking back (through the new lens of al anon) I was so controlling, and had my own bad set of tools and marched us down some bad emotional paths. Can't that be part of the cause? At some point things changed from alcohol abuse to alcoholism for him and couldn't his crossing that line have been avoided if both of us had made different decisions and approached things from a better place?

suki44883

No. Absolutely not. Do not put that on yourself. No one can cause another person to become an alcoholic. Get that thought right out of your head. You.did.not.cause.his.alcoholism. Period.

allysen

Hi Springs. Here's my thoughts. I was in Al-Anon for almost a year before the 'cause' C finally clicked for me. I also felt like you did: my poor choices influenced my husband's progression of alcoholism. But like I said, then I got it: it wasn't that my behaviour caused the alcoholism to get worse...it was that my choices caused additional, unnecessary chaos (ie. yelling, screaming, storming off, hiding his stuff, etc) in the home. Had I been thinking more sanely, a lot of drama never would have happened and we both might have been a bit more relaxed. However, it doesn't mean my husband's disease wouldn't have progressed. It would have progressed, and he would have just found a different reason to blame it on instead of my bull_sh*t.

Tuffgirl

Well, if you are part of the cause, that means you can be part of the cure, right?

No. Not right. If only it were that easy. I do this, you do that. But *sigh* people just don't work that way. You could be perfect, and he'd still be an alcoholic. You could be the biggest nag ever. He'd still be an alcoholic.

Springs

Well, if you are part of the cause, that means you can be part of the cure, right?

I definitely can't be part of the cure. That has to come from him and anything I do or don't do isn't really going to make a difference. I viscerally feel that at this point.

But something caused this disease right? Diseases have causes. Maybe not complete causes (e.g. cancer: genes, environmental factors, bad luck), but causes. For example, if a roommate of mine sunk into depression, and I'd been contributing to a stressful home environment, I wouldn't think I could cure it, or was largely to blame for the depression, but I would think I was a contributing factor to how my roommate crossed the line from going through a bad time to actually suffering from depression.

nbay2013

Complicated question...there is some element to truth that we "codies" can have some control and this is what I am coming to terms with. In my case, I didn't know my XAB was drinking heavily; so I can and have gone down the road of "poor me" he LIED to me. I had no idea; and that is true. He went uncover because he knew how I felt about addictions and use. My daughter at the time just turned 18 and as a mom, I had strong boundaries around chemical abuse. HOWEVER, the following is my part. Even though I didn't know he was developing a drinking problem I put up with some pretty poor behavior for my own needs to make him into someone I could be with. What came first, his inability to cope with average life problems or the drinking doesn't really matter; the truth is I was constantly rescuing him. Mind you he was 47 when I met him; all grown up. Yet I was always helping him with taxes, and resumes, and application for loans, and decisions that had nothing to do with me. I didn't like doing this stuff, he constantly pressured me for all the answers; I resisted because it kind of creeped me out and frankly was absurd. I felt some mother/child dynamics going on. (shudder) Anyway, he lived 200 miles away and if I just had left him to figure out his life's problems he never EVER would have had the skills to get a job in my city, find a rental, and move down. If I would have let him be an adult man he might still be drinking, he might not, dunno, don't care. But by me trying to fit a square peg into the proverbial round hole with a sledge hammer; I have to take responsibility for him moving to my city. That was when things really took a dive. That's when the drinking pretty quickly showed itself,,,and the rest...well the rest was a disaster.

I have to learn to let people fail and not rescue them; I don't remember being this way before become a mom....I think the whole motherhood thing kind of primes us for that. I remember my XAB commenting how he was attracted to my nurturing mother vibe. Again...(shudder)

So in summary, no, we absolutely have zero control over someone's drinking. But we have 100 percent control over being a caretaker and babysitter. And by not being a caretaker, (maybe) indirectly we might help them wake up a bit.

Boon44

Thank you to those who have contributed to this post. I've been wrestling with this idea of "cause" as well and it has contributed to me leaving some Al Anon meetings feeling like I was more to blame for not being able to save the relationship because of my reactions and behaviors to my EXABF's drinking. It would just keep spinning over and over in my mind that if I had known more about the "do's and don'ts" then things between us could have worked out...If only I could've done things differently then maybe he would have felt more inclined to stop drinking or to seek help instead of just switching me out for a younger version." This has clarified a few things for me...so thank you

Wavy

You didn't cause it, because you do not have the power to force someone to make a certain choice. Yes as partners of As we can get kinda crazy and I can see how that might not be very nice for our As to be around. But the way they chose to deal with that was by drinking. We didn't make them make that choice. That was not their only option. They could have told us in a calm adult conversation how much they didn't like our behaviour, they could have left us, they could have done any number of things other than drink more. So while we have had a role to play in an escalating negative dynamic between two sick people we never caused the other person's actions. Ever. Just like they didn't cause ours. In both cases we each made the only choices we knew how to, them to drink, us to try to control and that is not the other partner's fault.

thislonelygirl

We all make mistakes but we dont cause someone else to act or continue to act inappropriate.
So many people dont turn to drugs or alcohol. His coping skills are his and so are his choices.
I say that I admit I am not perfect . That I contribute to my own happiness or lack there of but I do not cause my ah to engage in poor behavior.
I get where your coming from. I have my own set of issues that leave me feeling guilty towards my ah however thats a seperate issue and does not reflect his actions only mine.
I hope that helps.....but i see it as self responsibility. .
Your husband is not being forced by you.... he chooses to drink.
Just because I dress sexy doesnt mean I cause a man to make offensive remarks or violate. My boundaries..
Get it? You cant cause something where a person has the ability to make a decision.
People choose to do right or they choose to do wrong

Tuffgirl

Springs, my point is along the lines of nbay writes about...the idea that if we are the "cause" or at least a part of, then we have some control over the cure (or outcome, if the word "cure" isn't a good fit here). Shoot - I busted my butt trying to change all the things my ex said was wrong in our relationship...they were all things I thought I had control over. It took a while to realize this wasn't about me at all. Once that sunk in, there seemed no point to staying in the relationship anymore. This was a man who would never be satisfied with what I had to offer, because he wasn't satisfied with himself first and foremost.

I made mistakes in my marriage to my A, like everyone else here has done. We are all human beings...we do the best we can with what we've got. But my mistakes and fumbling through a tough situation didn't cause my ex to be an alcoholic. He was that long before we got married.

Recovering2

There is alcoholism through out my family tree. My parents deal with that, they feel guilt over the "family" issue. My Mom feels part of the cause of my brother's drinking because it's in the family gene.

But I see it differently. We had the upper hand, we KNEW it was a real possibility in our lives if we didn't manage things. Most of us chose to be aware, and to avoid falling into those patterns. My brother did not. He knew, he chose anyway. He avoids treatment, avoids AA, does nothing to deal with it.

If my family had a history of cancer, I know to go for recommended screenings etc. If I made life style choices that increased my risk of that cancer, don't go for screenings, and then get cancer.....did my parents cause that? NO. The genetics may be there....but it was my choice to ignore it. If I don't get treatment, can I just blame it all on genetics? Of course not.

We didn't Cause it.

LifeRecovery

I think I heard this on this board

I did not cause it
I cannot control it
I cannot cure it
I can CONTRIBUTE to the chaos of addiction with my own behavior.

This helped settle something in me along what I think you were asking.

eddiefive10

Saying you caused it is just a way to throw blame, my thoughts on addicts is- its like there is a guy inside them and he starts playing a beat on a drum it starts out slow and silent, slowly it becomes louder and faster until it sounds like a heard of elephants in your head telling you GO GO GO!!!!

lizw

Blame is a huge part of the functioning of an alcoholic family. I know I spent years feeling responsible for things that happen in my family of orgin. My parents blamed myself and my siblings for choices they made or failed to make. It wasn't until I started attending al anon that the idea struck me that maybe what they said was not actually true and the truth of the matter was they were (and still are) totally unequipped to live life in a healthy way.

Seeing this really opened my eyes to the fact that being in relationships with alcoholic men was an in built default reaction to life as being blamed for their bad behaviour felt right as I had been conditioned for it.

Lately I have been reflecting on the idea that people's responses or reactions to me and my behaviour is about them and what's happened in their own lives. Just as mine are to others.

It's a very freeing way to live.

lillamy

My youngest daughter thought her fighting with her sister was what caused her father to drink.

I asked her if she owned a gun.
She said, "Noooo, silly -- I'm just a kid."
I said, "So you never held a gun to your father's head, put a funnel in his mouth, and poured alcohol into it and said 'swallow or I'll shoot'?"
She said, "OF COURSE NOT!!!"
I said, "Well, then you're OK -- then you didn't cause your father to drink. He chose to."

So what about you? Did you threaten his life if he didn't drink? If not, I think you're off the hook, too.

Edited to add: My AXH claims I'm the reason he had to drink when we were married, and the fact that I divorced him is the reason he has to continue to drink. I think the most amazing fact is that he was an alcoholic for 20 years before he met me. THAT, my friends, is just how powerful I am: He had to drink for TWENTY YEARS in preparation for being married to me. That's some serious power right there.

NWGRITS

It's not funny, but I'm gonna laugh a little. Quacking at its finest.

You will find with A's that it doesn't matter what you do, they will blame your actions or simple existence for their drinking. If you had done the other thing, they still would have drank. If I had gotten better grades, my AM wouldn't have had to drink. I had straight As, mind you. We contribute to the crazy making and the level of tension, sure. But they would drink regardless. An A's drinking is their sole responsibility, not ours.

Springs

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. It's been really helpful to read. My RAH isn't blaming me at all. But I guess I have guilt and shame at my own behavior that I probably have to face to free myself of the terrible fear that I helped cause this.

Lizw - what you said about blame is very resonant to me. I think my parents blame themselves for every way my brother and I are screwed up (even though I don't blame them), and they blame their parents for a lot of their pain and so maybe I've just learned a really unhelpful habit of blame that I'm not even recognizing but need to work to unlearned.

lizw

Blames an interesting thing aye? I recently done a 5th step with my sponsor and we discussed blame a lot. Me blaming others. Others blaming me. All within my own family of course - among myself, my siblings and my parents.

Choice was a concept that I was introduced to in al anon. A good example is if I did not like another persons behaviour I did not know I could choose to leave the room or if I did not like the conversation I could choose not to be involved in it. I had a sponsor who had to point these choices out to me. I really could not tell you how these simple ideas and actions had not occurred to me before but they honestly hadn't.

I have certainly got better at making choices for myself and my own well being over the years but I am far from perfect at it. The choices I make a lot these days tend to be focused more on my perception and how I choose to see things that happen in my life and with the people in it.

When I did my recent 5th step my sponsor introduced me to the idea that everyone in my life loves me and wants what is best for me and that maybe I could just assume that to be true, until they specifically tell me otherwise. I am trying to practise this and it is quite a challenge. But again it is a very freeing way to live.

NYCDoglvr

Alcoholism isn't a disease of the elbow, it's classified as a mental illness by the American Medical Association. Alcoholics don't have to drink and unless you hold him down forcefully and pour booze down his throat, you can't make him drink. Let it go, you are not responsible: he could get help at any time but refuses to do so.

healthyagain

I can see many factors that contributed to my husband's alcoholism, starting with a pretty dysfunctional family he came from that never ever supported his interest and talents (playing the guitar and not liking football makes you gay, seriously?). And this is not only his side of the story and finger pointing; I've seen those people with my very own eyes. However, he cannot blame them anymore for his alcoholism, or blame me, or his boss, or the political system, or only God knows what else. They did not cause his drinking. I did not cause his drinking. It was his choice. A very young man who at that time did not know any better, true. But he is over 40 now and he cannot make these excuses anymore. There are options and he has always had my support, but does he really want to see these options?

I did accept in the end that I am absolutely powerless when it comes to his drinking. Now, the only question is if I really want to spend the rest of my life sleeping in separate bedrooms on weekends, be married, and feel alone most of the time.