peridotbleu

I have to give Alanon and SR the biggest Kudos for helping me deal with addiction and teaching me how to change my perspective.
I still have a long way to go, but the change in me has been a definite improvement in my health and stress level.
My AH has changed since I have changed. He no longer bullies me since I no longer feel like the victim. I am in more control and have detached somewhat. I love my husband and want him to quit drinking, but I now know that I am not in control of that.
My dilemma is this: He is going to drink on Fridays and any other day that I am not home because that is his day off and i am not home so he can do what he wants. He is usually buzzing by the time I get home. He thinks I don't know that he does this. He hides the evidence. He is not mean to me anymore and will do what I want to do, but I don't want this kind of marriage... I want someone who doesn't have to have a buzz to enjoy life. He tells me he is going to quit but doesn't do anything about it. He says he has quit knowing himself that that is a lie! We have gone to counseling and has been told by two different counselors that he is battling alcoholism - he went to a couple of AA meetings but has since started back thinking that I cant tell.
I hate that he lies to me and that he isn't doing anything to help save our marriage which tells me that the addiction is in full force.
With this being said...I need advice. He understands that I am not happy about his drinking and that we are at a fork in the road, so with him already understanding this, Do I set a boundary and tell him that I know that he isn't living up to his end of the deal to save our marriage and give him another chance to go to AA, or do I just say, I cant do this anymore - I am leaving. Is it okay to say to him that I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has to turn to alcohol to get through the day?

Thanks for listening!

SparkleKitty

Yes, it is okay to say that to him. But if you do so with the expectation that it is The Thing That Will Finally Make Him Change, you will very likely be disappointed.

The "boundary" you describe earlier in that paragraph does not really sound like a boundary to me. Boundaries are for YOU, not him. Ultimatums, on the other hand, are "I am doing this UNLESS you do that." Ultimatums are control mechanisms ("I need you to change on MY timeline") and they often fail.

Do you have a plan in place for leaving? Are you ready to go? You don't have to DO anything until you are ready, you know?

pravchaw

One thing I have learnt that nagging, pleading or threatening does not do any good. Its up to you to decide if you want to stay or go. I had to remove 21yo son recently from our home to protect our boundaries of not living with an active addict. We gave him a choice, get into treatment or move. For now he has chosen the latter, though he knows the former is available.

I don't know the details of your situation, but you appear to be headed in the right direction. Continue to detach with love. When you see the opportunity continue to ask him to seek treatment. Don't enable. Protect your boundaries. Its a process, it takes time but we need to change. I do believe that nothing changes, if nothing changes.

dandylion

unhappyspouse, with all due respect, he already knows about AA and has all the "chance" he needs to seek sobriety. This is not about "giving him a chance"---you have already crossed that bridge. There is a war going on inside his head and he is fighting hard to preserve his ability to drink. That war inside his brain has much more urgency than anything that happens externally--it feels like life or death to him. (Read the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, M,D. (google search) for a good explanation of this)

You have no control except to establish your own boundaries--for your own welfare. You make your decisions and he, alone, can or will make his. That is the real bottom line.

unhappyspouse, he can't help to "save" the marriage while still an active alcoholic. He would have to save himself from the ravages of alcoholism before he could engage in that. Asking for promises from someone who does not have the ability to follow through is just setting yourself up for heartache and more disappointment.

It is really important to be sure that you can follow up and enforce a boundary before announcing it. Otherwise, your word will just ring hollow.

I can see that you are at a fork in he road, as you describe--how it goes, for you, will depend on the decisions that YOU make.

sincerely,
dandylion

peridotbleu

I understand everything that y'all are saying. I think what I am trying to do is let my AH down easy? Not be so bold and say - I'm done, I'm gone...kinda thing. I know he isn't going to stop or change. He thinks he isn't doing anything wrong. I am kind-hearted and have told him that I love him very much, but we cant continue this relationship as it is. He will not easily let me go - I really don't want that fight. I have said on my posts before, I just want him to let me go and then I could deal with my hurt and get on with my life - I know that is why I haven't already left... I don't want the fight. I am a pleasing person, I don't want to hurt him - but he doesn't mind hurting me - but that's not him its his addiction. I have asked myself if I can be happy in this relationship and the answer is always No - I really don't want to be with someone dependent on a substance to get enjoy life - I just didn't know if I should actually say this to him.
How would I properly set a boundary to give him a time limit instead of pulling the rug out from underneath him by just asking him to leave or me leaving? My paycheck pays the bills and his insurance, but yet, he doesn't have any where to go and I do - so that kills me to have to ask him to leave - but its not right that I should leave!
I wish I could just get fighting mad, but he doesn't really do anything to make me mad - Its hurtful that he lies and cheats with alcohol. I just don't want to live with an active alcoholic.

Hammer

Wish I had some wisdom for you.

Then I may have some for myself.

LexieCat

You have no OBLIGATION to live with someone who drags you down. You don't have to despise him to ask him to leave, and you don't have to get his agreement that it's the right thing to do. You already know he isn't going to agree with you.

Even if you try to do the "let him down easy" thing, it won't work. His denial runs too deep--he won't believe you or understand what the problem is. No matter HOW much time you give him, he isn't going to either get his butt into recovery or take reasonable steps to find a new place to live. This one is TOTALLY on you.

He will survive if you kick him out. If you dropped dead tomorrow and the house burned down, what would he do? He would find someplace to go. He'd crash at a friend's house or if worse came to worst, move into a shelter.

honeypig

If this is what it boils down to, unhappy, then this is what it boils down to. As others have said, he knows the score and apparently doesn't make the choice to get sober and work on recovery. However, as mentioned above, you do not HAVE to do anything right now if you are not 100% sure/ready to act.

The advice I received in Alanon was to not make a decision like this for a year, to take that time to get my OWN head on straight. (My A was not a physical or financial threat; seems yours is not either?) Maybe you want to talk to your sponsor, if you have one, or a good Alanon friend, and see if this is a good idea for you also.

Advice I received on this site was to not make a decision until I could do so from a place of strength and calm rather than a place of anger and hurt. I found that very helpful, maybe a consideration for you also as far as deciding if you are really done.

Wishing you clarity in deciding what to do (or not do) and when to do it.

dandylion

unhappyspouse, in my opinion, it is fine to tell him that you don't want to live with an active alcoholic. I believe that "I don't want to" is different than "I won't". The first one implies opportunity for wiggle room.

Further, in making your decision about how/when to proceed---the first consideration should be how much of this can you continue to live with. Your decision.

It has been my personal and observation of others that when the push finally comes to shove---it is still a battle. If they will battle now---it is almost for sure that they will "battle" later. I have heard others in recovery circles say:"It is hard to get rid of an alcoholic"----that is, if they have been comfortable drinking with you.

We co-dependents generally are very high on the guilt scale. He is an an adult and will have to learn how to live life on life's terms--just like everyone else. That task is up to him in the final analysis. We can wear ourselves to a frazzle trying to protect other people from the realities of life.

dandylion

Hammer

Hey Lexie,

You and I have sort of talked this before, but I did it rather clumsy and offended you, but maybe let me try again?

On this side of things -- deep Codie-types, Alanon types, maybe, Would -be-targets-of-"a"- Vampire/Users . . . I dunno, you pick the word?

Anyway, on this side of things -- It is ALL about obligation. Just because you say so or not does not make it so.

You are going against fundamental core programming. Almost like telling an Alcoholic to "just stop drinking."

No complaints towards you on that, but until other things or other conflicting values so overwhelm that core "obligation" value system -- It continues.

pravchaw

UnhappyS, unfortunately either way it does not get easier.
It killed both me and my wife to put our beloved son, out last February in the middle of the Canadian winter. But it came down to our sanity or his using. I recently (in July) let him back in but within 3 weeks had to ask him to leave again (he had started drinking heavily). I don't love him any less but decided we could not live like this. Honeypig said the right thing, I would say you are never 100% - but I think I was 90% there when we acted the way we did. I cannot see how it will turn out - he is still using heavily but at least its not in our face or on our dime.

SparkleKitty

I understand where you are coming from, unhappyspouse but there is no easy or painless way out of this. We have all experienced that feeling of wanting our A's to release us or even wanting our A's to do something SO terrible that no one could ever doubt our justification in ending the relationship. I believe that is our fear telling us that taking responsibility for our own needs and our own happiness is selfish and hurtful. I am here to tell you it is not. Life is too short to live in a way that makes you unhappy.

A boundary doesn't come with a time limit. That is still an ultimatum. Telling him one more time, giving him one more chance...you have already done this many times, one way or another.

What I read here is that what is holding you back is guilt. And behind that is the idea that there is something more you could do, if only you could figure it out. It comes back to the three C's -- you didn't Cause it, you can't Control it, and you can't Cure it.

Sending you strength and patience and hugs. I know how this hurts. And again, you don't have to DO anything until you are ready.

atalose

Unhappysouse,

I think you need to think this all the way through before you “announce your boundary and set a date” for him to leave or you’ll have to.

First, have you met with an attorney? I’d highly recommend you do that prior to announcing your boundary and set any move out dates for either one of.

Second, what is your plan when he doesn’t move out by a set date? What about the home, will you have to sell it and split any revenue? Again very important to seek out an attorney so you know exactly what you might be facing so that you can truly plan accordingly.

If it were only that simple of announcing a boundary, them breaking it, them packing up there stuff and leaving……….it’s doesn’t happen that way and I don’t think you are prepared for the way it most likely will happen.

Protect yourself, protect your assets – seek out legal advice.

Tuffgirl

When you are done - you are done and you will know it without a doubt.

If you don't know it yet, you aren't done yet. That's ok. Take it one day at a time.

wife1020

Boundaries are a must. He will keep hiding and using your second chances and threats. Your situation sounds like mine. If you say no drinking and you think he is hiding it you have to act and hold your grounds. Either ask him to leave or you need to leave. he wont change until HE wants to. Sounds like he is not ready yet. Start living life for you. What do you want? If its not living with an alcoholic then you need to make the change because he wont.

Flicka57

If he had two people tell him he is dealing with alcoholism then you know what you must do. . .set one more final boundary--Stop drinking, get into recovery or I leave. Put a time limit on it as to when he must stop & start recovery and a time limit of how long he must continue this before you sit down & discuss again about other issues with maybe a counselor then. But do not tolerate it any more once it goes 1 day past your cutoff for him to stop. Just my thoughts but good luck to you.

peridotbleu

It's just so hard - I know you all know this! He is really good to me and I have given it some thought to try and live with it, but I don't like the uncertainty of who I am going to come home to - the person that I married or the buzzed person that has been drinking, hiding the cans, brushing his teeth and gargling mouthwash and getting dip in before I get home. If he would put that much effort in getting sober, we might would have a chance! I am an ACOA and I'm not sure if this deepens my hatred for it, or if this is the way I would feel if that weren't the case. All I know is I cant stay in this relationship if he isn't going to get help.
So I should talk to an attorney before I talk to him about this again?

SparkleKitty

I'm an ACoA, too, unhappyspouse. I know where you're coming from. Luckily, there's a recovery for that, too!

Talking to your attorney as soon as you can will help you understand your options better, and will have you more prepared for when you speak to him again about separating.

Also, it is an empowering move. And I think you could use a little power in your life right now. ((hugs))

LexieCat

Well, it isn't so much that you need to talk to a lawyer before you talk to him again, but talking to a lawyer will let you know what your options are, and how you are likely to make out from a financial standpoint if you leave. The point really is that if you intend to give a final ultimatum, you should have a plan in mind and to know what to expect from a legal standpoint in terms of your rights and obligations.

AnvilheadII

He understands that I am not happy about his drinking and that we are at a fork in the road, so with him already understanding this, Do I set a boundary and tell him that I know that he isn't living up to his end of the deal to save our marriage and give him another chance to go to AA, or do I just say, I cant do this anymore - I am leaving. Is it okay to say to him that I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has to turn to alcohol to get through the day?

you have already had THE TALK...on multiple occasions by now. he knows damn good and well how you feel about his drinking. and so he puts on short little displays of "sobriety" til he just can't take it anymore. HE doesn't see it as a choice between A) drinking and B) the marriage. he's far enough into the disease where drinking is up there with breathing, something one MUST do. he has a physical compulsion and a mental obsession. he also, in those bits of sobriety, hasn't really seen THE POINT of staying sober. cuz it's going to take a HELLUVA lot of work, from the moment he quits for the rest of his life. he's going to have to learn to live life on life's terms without the aid of alcohol to grease the skids.

in his mind there is no earthly reason why he can't keep drinking...you just need to get over it. cuz it's not that bad, it's not that big a deal. he must maintain that denial, because if he starts to take the blinders off and really SEE what is going on around him, he just MIGHT have to concede that the drinking is a problem. and then he'd have to DO something about it. which is something he cannot or will not DO.

saying he either needs to go to meetings OR ELSE...is not a boundary...and not even a really good ultimatum. does that mean if he attends ONE meeting he gets the all clear? five? it he manages to stay sober for 23 days, this time?

you can say it as simply as i can't do this anymore. i can't live with someone who drinks to excess. and i can't spend any more time trying to make you change into someone you are not. so in the best interests of both of us....we need to split up.