MamaKit

Hi All,
I am trying to proactively establish timeframes with regard to when I might acknowledge that my STBAXH has actually changed.
We are separated...had a final divorce hearing...expecting final decision within 60 days. We have not spoken directly in almost a year (wow...a year) because of DV arrest bail conditions or a protection order. Communication happens by email only.

I had it set in my mind that I wouldn't judge any good behavior as "change" or progress leading up to the trial. If things were good that day. That's all it was - a day without negative behavior from him.
Now that the final hearing has come and gone, I've started a clock. In the past week, his email communication has been very good. His interaction with our boys has been good (I almost want to say positive) and he seems to be following all the rules (except child support - a different topic altogether).

My codie brain started throwing out ideas ...such as...."maybe it is time to amend the protection order so you can communicate directly by phone" even a hint of rescinding the protection order was suggested by my codie brain.
My rational brain recognized where those thoughts were coming from and I resisted.

BUT....there have been some interesting discussions on this thread about labels and believing that a person with a certain label is incapable of change. I have used those labels in my dealings with STBAXH...and I don't regret it. Those labels provided me with a clear point of reference for making decisions when I was in survival mode and couldn't trust my rational brain to overcome my codie brain.

I will have no say nor any way of knowing whether he is drinking or not (or in a program) - unless the final divorce order provides for something in that regard. But, I can assess his behavior towards me and the boys. I am thinking that 6 months of continued positive/decent behavior would be a good indication of change in the right direction. I want to rely on this time frame (or some time frame) almost in the same way I relied on labels to keep me on my path.

Too much? Too little? Advice??? Experience to share?

Thanks and hugs,
MamaKit

AnvilheadII

why change it at all? you still have a PROTECTION ORDER in place. you are not yet divorced. you have not spoken in over a year. you have no idea WHAT he IS doing in his life, but you know what he has DONE. i doubt you got that protection order on a whim...do you need to refresh yourself on the events that led TO that order?

are you boys thriving, away from the chaos? have you had to live in fear during the past year? why mess with it NOW?

MsPINKAcres

There is a saying in Al-Anon . . .

"Don't do something, just sit there"

and one in AA . . .

"more will be revealed"

In the past when I have struggled with a decision, I have found it is usually because it is not the right time for a change or it is not the right time to make a decision ~ maybe I don't have all the information I need yet; maybe there is something better down the road, maybe it's just not time yet?

But when it is time to make a decision, I usually have an inner peace ~ it doesn't mean I'm not scared or concerned about my decision ~ but deep down inside I know without a doubt this is the right path for me and my HP.

My suggestion would be to possibly seek time in meditation and asking for direction from your HP ~ maybe if the peace doesn't come, then maybe it's just not time to act on a change . . .

try not to allow unrealistic feelings of guilt control true healthy feelings of recovery ~

wishing you and yours the best ~

pink hugs

ShootingStar1

Along with the others, here's another saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

All you will accomplish by wondering about his state of mind, by wondering about whether you should initiate change to the Court's arrangements is to re-engage with him.

Why would you want to do that? In fact, why would you EVER want to do that?

You have made so much progress BECAUSE you have been no contact with him.

If you start engaging again in any way, you'll be back in the same old circus, maybe from more of a distance, but you'll be back in the ring with him.

I think the thing to ask is why these thoughts keep surfacing for you. They aren't productive in terms of the outcome of producing serenity and peace in your life or your kids. So, I'd think about what is going on with you that you are even considering re-engaging. Are there hidden hopes that he will recover and you'll all be back together?

I'd say let well enough alone.

ShootingStar1

Florence

Why are you evaluating his behavior? To what end?

You're divorcing, you have court orders in place, his effect on your lives has been a net negative. Live and let live, I say.

dandylion

Dear MamaKit, Do I read some hints of GUILT between the lines? The reason I ask this is because we co-dependent types often have traces of guilt in our bones. Especially at times when we are establishing or defending our boundrys. Guilt isn't uncommon and can certainly color our thinking.

Also, ShootinStar wondered if there might be some half-buried hope that he might recover and the relationship can resume. I think this is not uncommon either.......especially for those who desperately wanted the marriage to succeed. These desires don't die easily. Hanging onto shreds of hope still colors the decision making,

I am just offering food for thought.....

I am also wondering--why mess with what seems to be working well?

dandylion

MamaKit

No hidden hopes of getting back together. No way...no sir ....no how. I know that FOR SURE!!!!!
I think one trigger for re-evaluating is because the boys seem clearly uncomfortable when they see us both at a baseball game and we don't speak at all and maintain such a distance. They've come right out and asked me if we will ever be able to speak to each other again.

I have some thought (hope) that we could someday be in the same place in a normal-divorced-couple sort of way for our boys.
I know it is too soon to expect any of these things. It's probably not productive to think this way at all. It is true that his net effect on my life has been a negative.
I feel good about having the final hearing behind me....and maybe I'm letting that carry me away. Maybe it's time to look into corrective lenses for my chronic rose-colored vision.
Sigh

dandylion

MammaKit, this post brings me to tears. I remember, so clearly, my youngest son asking if we were ever going to get together again (he was about 5yrs.). That told me how long the kids harbor fantasies of their parents reuniting I remember holding him on my lap and talking to him---then going into the bathroom and drying behind closed doors. I also, did not want to be reunited with that man for even one millisecond!!

My point, is that seeing the two of you together (esp. so early on) might just fuel false hopes for the kids. I think it might be harder for the younger ones to comprehend the whole thing--what the reality is than the older ones. Now that they are grown and really know what their dad is like (very narcissistic), they completely appreciate that they did not have to live with him full-time.

Hope this helps....

dandylion

lillamy

Six months is a pee in the Nile. Let the PO run its course. You are being super Codie (takes one to know one) - he's being really positive *except that he's not paying hold support*.

We don't give people a break because they *almost* behave like civilized people for a short period of time. Look at yourself and ask "what would I be saying if it wasn't me, but my daughter, who was in this position?"

I can tell you that every time I've thought "wow, he's really been behaving almost civilly now for a while," AXH has pulled some stunt that has reminded me that he's still the same actively drinking abusive person I left; I just don't see him as much so sometimes, he manages to cover it up during our very brief interactions.

Wait. See. Enjoy the peace the PO gives you. You owe him nothing.

MamaKit

Oh my peeps!
You all are so good for me!!!!!
I am being a super codie! I see it. And yes, I do feel guilt. I am feeling that it is on me to make this uncomfortable situation better so everyone is happy. I need a fix of fixing (my drug of choice).
You know what?..... the PO does give me peace. And the PO is most likely the reason he is being "almost" decent. Things are pretty good the way they are now and my boys are thriving. Thank you all for asking me the right questions to see things more clearly.
Really, what is worse for them...some distance between us at baseball games, which is a bit awkward....OR.....the circus that our relationship would be if I were again subjecting my self to his drunk, manipulative, controlling ways?
I think a few moments of awkward is just fine for now!!!!!
Gotta work on this recovery thing EVERY DAY, huh?

(Pee in the Nile....tee hee hee :-)
Thanks friends,
Mamakit

theuncertainty

Ah, man. I know this hope as well. It's amazing how a little time and distance from AXH makes that hope perk up its ears a bit. Divorce-Like-That-Hope looks up and asks: Maybe now?? Okay, soon?? Someday? Okay, well, I'll just be over here waiting....

It felt really weird when I realized I was looking at my acquaintances who are divorced and can exchange news about their kids, who can (and do) attend kids' events without unnecessary drama, and daydreaming about being divorced like that.

lillamy

Yes!!! The PO is a great motivator for him to behave - its like the sword of Damocles hanging over his head, you know?

And I went "OMG. Yes. That!" at your statement about feeling like its your responsibility to make sure the uncomfortable goes away... Exactly that feeling (which I have not been able to verbalize before - thank you!) is what has made me make some really boneheaded decisions in the past.

I have a quote (from SR) on my fridge. It says "Nobody ever died from being uncomfortable"...

Enjoy your peace.

Thumper

Here is my experience. I've been divorced for a little over three years.

There was never a protection order but communication was by email only my choice. He does call here to talk to the boys but I just give them the phone. Three years, and sobriety now, and *still* every once in awhile I'll get a slew of emails that are so manipulative and mean. The same old stuff. Some times they do not even make sense. I can delete them and not let them disrupt my peaceful home/life but I can only imagine how often things like that would happen if we were in closer communication (he emails way more than I respond, even if they are not crazy ones), or if we had a 'talk to one another on the phone or in person' type relationship.

That friendly co-parenting was my dream for a long time too and like the other dreams I had regarding that man, it was based in fantasy. Reality is where I stay when it comes to him and reality says he is not to be trusted with my emotions, my peace, my life. He is not a friend. He will tear me apart without a second thought when he gets in a mood and it doesn't matter if that mood is fueled by alcohol, other meds, or his own mental state. He attacks me emotionally and purposely pushes all my codie buttons in a quest to get me to take care of him again. The reality is, this is the way it will be forever with him and email communication about the kids is the only thing I'll ever agree too.

MamaKit

Well that was FAST!
He's back to being mean and spiteful. I thought I would write the how, why, what and wherefores....but it doesn't matter. Same old $h*#!!!!

Even though we are no longer together and we've not spoken to each other in a year, he obviously still believes the same techniques for manipulation and control will work.
(And if I'm going to be honest with myself....they almost did). I want to use this as some clue or indication that he is still drinking...but really what is the difference? Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable.

Time for me to face the reality and accept...that we won't be normal co-parents. I just have to stay on my path and not worry about making his smoother.

Thanks again for helping me see...
Hugs,
MamaKit