LexieCat

Well, in terms of the support, there are international treaties to collect child support and spousal support, regardless of which country assumes jurisdiction. Property division sounds more complicated. I don't know how those judgments get enforced--I suppose the way any other foreign judgment is. It seems to me that enforcement would be simpler if the judgment were in the US, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Just something else to consider--a judgment (i.e., for division of property) is only as good as your ability to enforce it. If he is residing in the same state as the court entering the judgment, the assets are right there.

Hell, I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to this stuff. I wish I could help.

Rosiepetal

I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
I have had 5 child support reviews/hearings & had to fight child support all the way.
I received zero support legally while AH grew & sold drugs to pay for his living & had no income on record.
When he did have a job & was paid under the table I couldn't prove it but child support didn't care they wanted me to go stalk him & provide evidence.
One thing this has taught me is never, ever give up because for brief periods of time I fought child support & got a positive result.
In my experience you need to go for all the information you can possibly get, know your rights & procedures, talk to different people at child support etc etc.
Each year I learn a little more.
Best of luck to you.

PippiLngstockng

Rosiepetal, that sounds like a nightmare! I am amazed that child support made you go through all of that.

This system just is so unfair to the spouses and children who have already been through so much. If I could go back in time I would make AH sign a contract when I let him convince me finally to give up my career so that our family life would accompdate his work schedule. In it he would commit to supporting the children and I with three quarters of his income.

Does that sound like a lot? It shouldn't. A man with four children shouldn't be able to retain $225,000 a year while his ex and children have to scrape by on $65,000. At that rate we would not be able to buy groceries and pay for rent for our tiny apartment.

Maybe the results won't be that bad. I just don't think it is right for the legal system to allow addicted spouses to neglect their children and then have so many rights to their income and visitation with the children. It's awful for the children.

And how does one explain this to them? You can't have a birthday party this year or lessons anymore. Why? Because rich Daddy isn't wanting to spend his money on you?

I think that qualifies as a rant.

Mountainmanbob

PippiLngstockng

In Europe. Newport Beach would be significantly cheaper.

Jazzman

I'm still trying to understand this and I admit I've read only a few of your posts....
You get married and over the years have four children, then leave the country and take the kids with you and file for divorce? Are you both American citizens? Did you have his permission to take the children out of the country?

Hammer

Let's see if I am tracking this correctly . . .

and then there is the Real World . . . .

The 2012 Median Income of US households was $45,018 per annum

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your support alone is upper middle income for an entire household.

marie1960

Divorce, = the complete separation of things, and that includes money.

In sincere gentleness, it may be time to remove the rose colored glasses.

I have lived quite comfortable on my 70-80k salary, I own a home, 2 cars, helped 3 kids graduate college, it can be done. You may have to adjust your sails/ spending, but the reality is, divorce is the end of life as we know it.

New challenges and opportunities are on the horizon, time to embrace the ride.

You may have to return to the working class world, you may have to budget, ( and I HATE that word) but we do what we must for our children, and in the process we become stronger.

There are children on this planet who will not eat today, they do not have clean drinking water, or beds to sleep on, some do not even have parents, that is the definition of poverty.

Have you considered returning to the States?

honeypig

Hammer, I am no expert on this, but my brother has been traveling extensively this past year and says the prices of many things abroad are very different from what we Americans know. For instance, I googled the cost of gasoline in Europe and a quick glance shows me prices from $8 to $10 a gallon--and surely that impacts the cost of food, etc., just as it does here. Seems reasonable that the overall cost of living may be much, much higher than in the US.

Do I understand correctly that the OP will continue to live in Europe? If not, I apologize for creating any confusion of my own.

PippiLngstockng

I appreciate the sentiment folks.

We came here as a family for AH's work. I argued to live somewhere cheaper. I lost. He loves it here. Now we all do. But he is back in US and visits here frequently.

The issue is the four children. On my own, i would be back earning a living and I would head out to another part of Europe. F**k alimony.

But the children have a home here. School, friends, lessons, the rhythm of the day.

It would be one thing if Mr Longstocking were now where he may one day wind up. On the street. But he is living a wealthy lifestyle.

Why should his children go from being able to take lessons and have take out pizza on occasion now be living with half the money they had before?

Why shouldn't I be indignant for them?

There are far worse injustices and most people don't ever have the opportunities they have had. More fairly, Mr Longstocking should give half his earnings to support good causes. But whatever one's earnings, it seems to me unfair to the children to think they should be allowed to suffer a significant reduction when the income earner can maintain his lifestyle as before.

Hammer

Sure, I travel on per diem(s). That sort of makes life a party.

But Real Life in the Real World . . . aint so much a party.

Specific to your question -- Yes Europe tends for MUCH higher gas/fuel prices. Most of that price is tax. Conversely, those taxes usually fund much of Health Care (the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US). As a complete off-set to that, public transport and trains in Europe tend be of such quality, that owning a car (another common major US expense) is not needed, let alone fuel for it.

That is a real underlying issue.

"Living in a manner to which one has become accustom" is the standard phrase.

LexieCat

Yup, he essentially chose the playing field. Temporary alimony seems not unreasonable, considering the loss of career opportunities for the well-being of the family, and fair division of marital property is a no-brainer.

Typically during divorce all parties experience a reduction in the standard of living. Absent unusual circumstances, if both parties are feeling the pinch, the result is fair. Looks like Mr. LS is feeling NO pinch at the moment, but it's still early in the game.

marie1960

Forgive me, but it seems to me your expectations are currently more than you can afford, and that is what is causing you so much pain and conflict. Who says they MUST have lessons, is there not band or orchestra in school? Are there not after school activities that they can participate in for free ? Kids just want to be involved and have friends, they do not need the best of everything.

So what if he is living a wealthy life style? It's his money, he earned it........ I have a feeling he is currently denying his kids, just to get at you , and it's working. perhaps if you stopped demanding he may soften, JMHO. If he doesn't that's why you have a lawyer.

In the big picture of life, you have your 4 kids with you, they are young, healthy and thriving. You get to get them up each day, and kiss them good night. Some things money just cannot buy.

I personally think your "indignant" approach is backfiring, is what I think. Remember this is divorce, and it's war, but perhaps new tactics are needed, you need to find some common ground, to be effective.

please know my words are without malice, i certainly wish you all the best.

lillamy

I think Lulu's attitude (another thread) rhymes well with my experiences: expect nothing and you won't be disappointed.

I downgraded our lifestyle significantly when I left AXH. I never included what he was supposed to pay in child support in my budget because I knew it would eventually disappear. I chose living quarters and activities for the kids based on what I could afford without his help.

Is it fair? No. Is it infuriating? If you let it be. For me, it was comforting and gave me a feeling of security to know that I did not have to rely on AXH in any way; that he didn't have any way to try to manipulate or control me anymore. I'm about half a step up from a trailer park in an apartment that's 45 degrees inside when it's -20 outside. And that's OK. Because in my mind it's still better than remaining dependent on an A who will eventually drink his job, home, and friends away. I'd take a second job before allowing myself to become dependent on his paying or not paying... I too left my career to support his. So now I start over.

When my AXH DOES pay anything, it's a pittance. He should be paying about $1,500 a month and the average month I'm lucky if I get $100. I could never live in a big house and go on fancy vacations and know that my kids were missing out on things. But my AXH has no problem with prioritizing himself. I can let that **** me off or I can accept it and let it go. Again, sure it's unfair. But it's one of those things I can't control so I might as well let it go.

stella27

My XAH is the only child of wealthy, oil-money parents. They set up an education trust and paid for my older children's private school. When #3 was school-aged (after the divorce), they refused to pay his tuition, even though these are their only grandchildren and they can well afford it.

The month I filed with the court for permission to move out of town, they did not pay the school even the tuition they had paid for the older children. The same month XH stopped payment on the spousal support check that he was ordered by the court to pay me every month.

I had just sold the family home and moved into a much smaller house in a not-as-nice neighborhood. XH's family took the 9 and 10 year old grandchildren to Paris for a 2 week vacation.

These actions showed me that XAH is the product of a family who buys love and who will correspondingly cut off funds to children and schools when I behave in any way that displeases them.

My children no longer have private school or music lessons or golf lessons. We joined the rec center instead of the country club. We play team sports subsidized through the city. Our fun is walking the dog and discovering new routes. We live in a tiny rental house.

He and they have more money than King Midas, but I wouldn't go back for anything, because I have my freedom and my integrity.

PippiLngstockng

Hmmm. I perhaps express myself poorly.

My intention, rather, is to invite others to see that the system is set up to allow these injustices. And that it wouldn't have to be that way. Unless we let it.

Sure we forget the past, drop the A, and make our own way forward.

But systems do eventually shift when enough people identify a problem and determine to address it.

Jazzman

OK so now I get it.

Sounds like it's going to be an expensive divorce. I think you would be smart to move back to the states and into the marital home and settle the divorce in the states. I think you and your children will be better off in the long run. You can live on the Riviera later.

stella27

Pippi,

Several things:

1. Most legislators are men. Who are not going to pass laws to give a majority of earnings to their former wives and children.

2. $65k is a LOT of money. If you need more to live comfortably, YOU can work and child support is intended as a supplement to your income. Child support is not intended to be any family's sole source of income.

3. Depending on your state, spousal support may be an option as well.

4. Divorce is horrible and unfair and alcoholism is even worse. Your situation is not the norm, so I wouldn't expect anything to change in response to child support being unfair.

5. If he starts another family (always possible), he will need sufficient income to support those children too.

None of this is pleasant or good, and I know that you and the children are the wronged parties. What I am trying to say is that feeling wronged and overburdened is not going to get you out of bed and driving children to school in the mornings, so chew on it a while, and then accept that it's unfair and that you will have the bulk of the work while he gets to keep the money he earns in his job.

And then grab your life and the children's by the horns. It's all you can do, but you may find that it's enough.

owathu

I've lived in Europe, granted I don't have children, but on my salary of 2,5K Euro, I was living a very very good life. In Europe, the median household income is well below 65K Euro, for a family.

OP, no one is trying to make you feel bad, but unfortunately, getting a divorce means that you no longer have his salary to depend on other than what is set aside for child support (5-6K euro is A LOT of money) and what you may get as a financial settlement for yourself. I will be honest, you are getting a better deal than 95% of the women out there for your child support. As long as what you are getting is fair, which it is, you should be able to work with it. You will absolutely not be living in a caravan, I promise. (Unless you are in Monaco or something)

Florence

In the US, the only support you can look at is 300-500 per child monthly for a middle class family. It's a supplement -- we're not intended to live on it. The court believes that able-bodied and able-minded adults should pay their own ways, and I guess I agree with that value.

That said, my ex comes from a wealthy family who provides for him above and beyond his needs. He's never paid rent or mortgage, and spends all that extra money on himself and his gadgets. I struggled, borrowed money, hustled for money, for many years, and yes, I was absolutely bitter about it. It was tough to struggle while bearing the majority burden of raising our child (our child isn't a burden, but you know what I mean) while he did not. He still lives very high on the hog -- but I know his life is still empty, he lives selfishly, and his new family is still enmeshed in the power struggles that I finally got away from.

I got away from him! That's priceless.

My STBXAH is also from a wealthy family. He has no money and no credit, mostly because his folks have swept in to manage his every need while he dive headfirst into alcoholism and addiction. It's terrible, actually. I took over the job when we got together, apparently. On the one hand I get jealous that every one of his needs will be attended to, no matter what. On the other hand, I'm self-sufficient.

I struggle, but I'm self-sufficient.