Gambling?
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Naples
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Gambling?
My AH is occasionally active in AA, but for short periods. He loves to gamble, plays poker and blackjack. Betting on football is another activity. He has no other hobbies or interests. During his last period of "sobriety" he went to the casino regularly. I don't know if he wins or looses as he is an exceptional liar. I know that gambling can be an addiction so this concerns me. I'd love to hear from AA people on this subject. I have no intention of asking him to stop, a waste of breath and effort. Is a person in AA truly sober if gambling plays an important role in their life?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Depends on whether it just plays an important role in his life or if he is dependent on it, in the sense of an addiction. If he isn't risking money he can't afford to lose, and isn't neglecting his responsibilities because of his "hobby" then I don't see that it's necessarily a red flag.
If he's lying in sobriety, now THAT would concern me.
If he's lying in sobriety, now THAT would concern me.
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Join Date: May 2012
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He recently retired. When he is drinking, he watches TV and sleeps. Nothing else. When he is "sober", he gambles. He is secretive about his finances so I don't know if $ is a problem. I have encouraged other activities which we can share but he has little or no interest. In reality, it really doesn't matter what I think about the gambling, it is what it is.........
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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Sounds to me like he would do well to use some of this unstructured time to get back involved in AA. Unfortunately, that's something you can't do much about.
If I were you, though, I'd start informing myself about the financial situation. If you ever decide to leave or if he were to die, you would be behind the 8-ball not knowing your financial situation.
If I were you, though, I'd start informing myself about the financial situation. If you ever decide to leave or if he were to die, you would be behind the 8-ball not knowing your financial situation.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
That's good to know. Still, is he accumulating debt that you could be responsible for in the event of a divorce? Have you talked to a lawyer? Might not be a bad idea, just for the sake of protecting yourself. Just keeping separate bank accounts and credit cards might not be enough.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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Well, as a member of AA and a long-term recovering alcoholic/addict (22+ years), it has been my experience over the years that people with quality recovery tend to stay away from such things as gambling as we tend to be people with addictive personalities.
I'd like to clarify the term "sober" from my point of view. For me, sobriety is not just abstinence; it is also a state of mind. My disease is threefold...physical, mental/emotional, and spiritual. If I am not taking care of all three areas, I am a dry drunk, and that is a very miserable way to live (been there, done that, got that t-shirt).
As a long-term recovering codependent (13+ years), I realize I have no control over what anyone else does, including my 35-year-old AD. The only thing I have control over is me and the choices I make in my life. I determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior from others and act accordingly.
My EXAH (now deceased) was never interested in making a commitment to recovery despite completing inpatient rehab. I had to walk away from that marriage for my own sanity/safety.
I would recommend the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie as a must-read if you haven't yet. She has a whole series of books on codependency.
Although we no longer have an active Alanon group in my little town, I do practice the principles in my daily life. It isn't for everyone, but it has helped me.
I also am in therapy, and do a lot of reading on codependency. I have meditation readings I do in the mornings.
Regardless of whether he's switching one addiction for another (gambling), ask yourself what are you willing to live with? That is what really matters.
Sending you hugs of support.
I'd like to clarify the term "sober" from my point of view. For me, sobriety is not just abstinence; it is also a state of mind. My disease is threefold...physical, mental/emotional, and spiritual. If I am not taking care of all three areas, I am a dry drunk, and that is a very miserable way to live (been there, done that, got that t-shirt).
As a long-term recovering codependent (13+ years), I realize I have no control over what anyone else does, including my 35-year-old AD. The only thing I have control over is me and the choices I make in my life. I determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior from others and act accordingly.
My EXAH (now deceased) was never interested in making a commitment to recovery despite completing inpatient rehab. I had to walk away from that marriage for my own sanity/safety.
I would recommend the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie as a must-read if you haven't yet. She has a whole series of books on codependency.
Although we no longer have an active Alanon group in my little town, I do practice the principles in my daily life. It isn't for everyone, but it has helped me.
I also am in therapy, and do a lot of reading on codependency. I have meditation readings I do in the mornings.
Regardless of whether he's switching one addiction for another (gambling), ask yourself what are you willing to live with? That is what really matters.
Sending you hugs of support.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but I have MANY addicts in my close circle and here are a few things this makes me think of...
Often when someone "quits" their drug of choice, they replace it. Example, when my alcoholic sister actually was able to string a few "sober" weeks together, she smoked alot of pot.
When my alcoholic friend quit drinking, he moved on to having women by the boat loads in and out of his life, when he quit the women he started gambling to the point of 100K in debt, and on the brink of losing his home.
However, my mother quit drinking and didn't pick up any new habits. My brother quit drinking and now he's a work-a-holic.
I think "addictive personality" is very real. An addiction, is an addiction is an addiction, just different means. I personally think without the proper life tools these people are not comfortable just setting with themselves. They need distractions, something, anything to take the focus off themselves. Of course this is just my theory. It really holds no merit.
Your man could just be enjoying his retirement. May not have any problems, but it would make me nervous.
Take what you want, leave the rest.
Often when someone "quits" their drug of choice, they replace it. Example, when my alcoholic sister actually was able to string a few "sober" weeks together, she smoked alot of pot.
When my alcoholic friend quit drinking, he moved on to having women by the boat loads in and out of his life, when he quit the women he started gambling to the point of 100K in debt, and on the brink of losing his home.
However, my mother quit drinking and didn't pick up any new habits. My brother quit drinking and now he's a work-a-holic.
I think "addictive personality" is very real. An addiction, is an addiction is an addiction, just different means. I personally think without the proper life tools these people are not comfortable just setting with themselves. They need distractions, something, anything to take the focus off themselves. Of course this is just my theory. It really holds no merit.
Your man could just be enjoying his retirement. May not have any problems, but it would make me nervous.
Take what you want, leave the rest.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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Originally Posted by womaninprogress 
An addiction, is an addiction is an addiction, just different means. I personally think without the proper life tools these people are not comfortable just setting with themselves. They need distractions, something, anything to take the focus off themselves.
I relapsed after 4 years while enmeshed in a very toxic relationship.
I am so grateful I finally hit a bottom in 1998 and made a commitment to look at those addictions, work on recovery from those, and not engage with any men until I had done a ton of work.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm in AA, too, and if I get too much off the beam I can be not drinking, but with questionable "sobriety" at the moment. Your husband may not be drinking, but his secretiveness and lethargy don't seem to indicate he is living what most people (AA or not) would consider to be a healthy life.
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Stereotypes about black and white thinking notwithstanding, I can't decide if I might be the best person to answer this question - or the worst. I am a recovered alcoholic/addict (20 years) and a professional poker player (24 years) who started as a professional blackjack player.
Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea whether your AH has a proble with gambling or not and there isn't anything close to enough information in your post for me to even pretend to be knowledgable to say one way or the other. I'm just going to put some information out there for you.
Blackjack can be beat mathematically. It is less true today than i ever has been as casino's keep tweaking their rules to make it not so - but it can still be done. That said, I would estimate that perhaps one in 500 players is a lifetime winning player (assuming a minimum number of hours played over their lifetime at say 200). I just gave Ken Einiger (World Series of Blackjack winner 2005) a call and he said that those numbers seem more or less right to him as well.
Poker is much more winnable. Common estimates put the percentage of lifetime winners or break even players at poker at approximately 10% and the number of people who make enough to live on at approximately 1%. That said, I would estimate that at least 50% of poker players identify themselves as break even or better. I'd give a reference for that but the only one I know for sure came out of a book that I wrote so it sort of defeats the purpose.
Now - about recovery... I'm a math geek. So blackjack and poker became outlets for my mathematical prowess rather than outlets for my addictive personality. Winning meant was smart - and smart meant that I was worthwhile and being worthwhile meant my mother loved me. Sick? Sure, but a different manifestation of sickness than addiction. As I dealt with the issues that made sticking poison in my lungs or down my gullet seem like such a great idea, playing poker and blackjack lost much of their appeal. The problem is, I had gotten so darn good at them by that time that I couldn't make anywhere near as much money doing anything else and so I stuck with it.
I know hundreds, perhaps even thousands of recovering people who play and I'd say that the overwhelming majority of them are not fully engaged in recovery and are in fact substituting one drug for another. The exceptions tend to be almost exclusively retired folks - though certainly not all of them.
I will say this - it is a way to engage the brain and studies have shown that older poker players have a fantastically low rate of alzheimers and other dementia type disorders as compared to the general public.
Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea whether your AH has a proble with gambling or not and there isn't anything close to enough information in your post for me to even pretend to be knowledgable to say one way or the other. I'm just going to put some information out there for you.
Blackjack can be beat mathematically. It is less true today than i ever has been as casino's keep tweaking their rules to make it not so - but it can still be done. That said, I would estimate that perhaps one in 500 players is a lifetime winning player (assuming a minimum number of hours played over their lifetime at say 200). I just gave Ken Einiger (World Series of Blackjack winner 2005) a call and he said that those numbers seem more or less right to him as well.
Poker is much more winnable. Common estimates put the percentage of lifetime winners or break even players at poker at approximately 10% and the number of people who make enough to live on at approximately 1%. That said, I would estimate that at least 50% of poker players identify themselves as break even or better. I'd give a reference for that but the only one I know for sure came out of a book that I wrote so it sort of defeats the purpose.
Now - about recovery... I'm a math geek. So blackjack and poker became outlets for my mathematical prowess rather than outlets for my addictive personality. Winning meant was smart - and smart meant that I was worthwhile and being worthwhile meant my mother loved me. Sick? Sure, but a different manifestation of sickness than addiction. As I dealt with the issues that made sticking poison in my lungs or down my gullet seem like such a great idea, playing poker and blackjack lost much of their appeal. The problem is, I had gotten so darn good at them by that time that I couldn't make anywhere near as much money doing anything else and so I stuck with it.
I know hundreds, perhaps even thousands of recovering people who play and I'd say that the overwhelming majority of them are not fully engaged in recovery and are in fact substituting one drug for another. The exceptions tend to be almost exclusively retired folks - though certainly not all of them.
I will say this - it is a way to engage the brain and studies have shown that older poker players have a fantastically low rate of alzheimers and other dementia type disorders as compared to the general public.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Xune - I wish it were that easy. There are 2 great bikes in the garage, tires pumped and ready. Our community has a gorgeous fitness center, tennis courts and golf course. We are in SW Florida and the weather is wonderful. Walk and bike trails run thru the area. Fishing is easily available. And on and on and on. I beg him to join me but I always go alone. I understand that alcoholism is a disease, but he has the ability to make choices. I no longer sit and wait for him. and he complains that I don't spend time with him. It comes down to choices IMHO.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Legna, You have a legitimate argument. His goal is to play in the tournament where you get a bracelet. He does have a math oriented brain. I guess I believe that there should be moderation in all things. And that is what worries me. Thanks! P.S. I'm sure he's like to talk with you!
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Join Date: May 2010
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The alkie-addict here gambles and online and talks about it unsolicited. He is already broke from his other habits. I'm also leary of the legality of online gambling or the games they allow/taxes. Searches online didn't yield clear answers. I hope he doesn't jeopardize anyone's house because if he uses their internet connection or phone line I hope that doesn't come back on the owner. You can't talk to him about it. And just like the enabling it's hard to convince others that this might be an issue.
He says he bets for other people because he knows how to make money. This is the scary part. Either these individuals or IRS might be coming after him one day. I just hope he doesn't drag others down legally or financially.
I think he talks about it unsolicited to fish for money and I think he is testing one's tolerance on an activity which many frown upon legal or not which means escalation to me. My biggest concern right now is collateral damage from his activities.
Peace
He says he bets for other people because he knows how to make money. This is the scary part. Either these individuals or IRS might be coming after him one day. I just hope he doesn't drag others down legally or financially.
I think he talks about it unsolicited to fish for money and I think he is testing one's tolerance on an activity which many frown upon legal or not which means escalation to me. My biggest concern right now is collateral damage from his activities.
Peace
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I think it could very well be a problem I had a gambling problem for a few years in my early drinking, before I replaced that with heavier drinking. I see a number of similarities between the two. The instant gratification, the adrenaline rush, knowingly doing something that will hurt you, not being able to stop (chasing your money), doing it by yourself rather than as part of a social circle. He may not have a problem but he may very well have.
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kris -
I have been in two relationships with gamblers. I don't know much about gambling but I do know that it is similar to other compulsive behaviors in the sense that it provides a rush and high that keeps the gambler hooked.
The first gambler that I dated, quit when he was involved with me. I think he mostly gambled to get away from the loneliness and boredom. So when he spent his time with me, he didn't need it anymore.
The second one was also addicted to alcohol, so I wasn't as concerned with it as I was the drinking. At the time, everyone close to him thought he was going to die so gambling wasn't the major issue at the time.
I actually worked at a casino for a time, so I know how destructive gambling can be. Las Vegas actually has the highest suicide rate in the country - for locals AND tourists. The rate is about 1 person a day committing suicide in Vegas. In my opinion, gambling plays a part. And many also do it in the hotels - although most of the deaths are covered up and never released to the press. Try staying in a hotel in Vegas after learning that! Creepy...
I definitely think gambling is a major concern. I would never join bank accounts or get married to someone addicted to gambling. I'm not sure exactly what I would do with someone who refused to give it up. Maybe you can try contacting a hotline or organization that can give you advice.
Best of luck.
I have been in two relationships with gamblers. I don't know much about gambling but I do know that it is similar to other compulsive behaviors in the sense that it provides a rush and high that keeps the gambler hooked.
The first gambler that I dated, quit when he was involved with me. I think he mostly gambled to get away from the loneliness and boredom. So when he spent his time with me, he didn't need it anymore.
The second one was also addicted to alcohol, so I wasn't as concerned with it as I was the drinking. At the time, everyone close to him thought he was going to die so gambling wasn't the major issue at the time.
I actually worked at a casino for a time, so I know how destructive gambling can be. Las Vegas actually has the highest suicide rate in the country - for locals AND tourists. The rate is about 1 person a day committing suicide in Vegas. In my opinion, gambling plays a part. And many also do it in the hotels - although most of the deaths are covered up and never released to the press. Try staying in a hotel in Vegas after learning that! Creepy...
I definitely think gambling is a major concern. I would never join bank accounts or get married to someone addicted to gambling. I'm not sure exactly what I would do with someone who refused to give it up. Maybe you can try contacting a hotline or organization that can give you advice.
Best of luck.
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