So how did you set boundaries and what were they?
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So how did you set boundaries and what were they?
Hey all...
thanks to a lot of loving help and a few kind thwacks upside my melon this week I am much more at peace with everything.
I get that I did not cuase, can't cure and can't control alcoholism.
I get that my AW needs a husband, not a warden
I get that her recovery (or not) is her business and that if I really want to help then I need to work on me and make sure I am sane
I get this is a one day at a time thing and I need to deal with what is and don't have to deal with what was and can't know what will be.
It's been freeing and enlightening and so good for both of us this week. The tug of war we've been having was so simple to fix... I just dropped the rope on my way to an Al-anon meeting.
So now I am focusing on my recovery and how I can insulate myself from the frenzied emotions that future runins with this disease would cause. I know there will be challenges but I love my wife as much as I hate the disease she has so hey, let's go....
There is one thing I do have to figure out and then communicate to her and here is where I could really use some experienced hands... both from those who have the illness and those like me who live with someone who does.
It's boundaries.
I went through a lot of thinking on this, my list got smaller each time until I got it down to pretty much just this:
"I am not willing to deal with an addict while they are using".
My wife's one lapse - she took a drink while we were on vacation last week the hurled it back when she felt the baby move. (Other threads on this) I freaked out, she freaked out... kid slept through it and everyone is OK. Mom has new 24 hr chip, dad is going to alanon and posting here and we've addressed it as best we can. I've stopped interrogating and making plans to alter my life to babysit her... Yada Yada
So my one sentence had a lot of elements to it. The longer version would be that I won't have an addict living with me while using, won't let them handle the baby when he gets here, drive cars I am responsible for, won't try to reason or argue with them but won't judge or seek to punish them. This is just my boundary. I am in love with and took vows with someone who is afflicted with alcoholism and it ain't like she told me the next day. Time to pull on my big boy pants and deal with it.
I also thought about, ok, how to enforce that boundary. Tuffgirl's story helped... she said something about having the right to set boundaries and the right to determine how flexible she wants to be enforcing them. See that is good. I would hate to set a boundary then not enforce it.
If she slips again in a similar fashion i may handle it in a similar fashion (ie, nothing to do). But I need to be a good dad first since I don't get to decide what he is willing to tolerate, my job is to put his welfare first, period, if there are ever comes a time when his mother can't despite her immeasurable love for him. Alcoholism doesn't give a damn if you love people or are pregnant. So while she is pregnant I think the boundary and how it will be enforced is this... No need to say 'please don't even have a sip'... she knows that. I just need a simple cause and effect: If you have a relapse and you are intoxicated or I believe you are intoxicated then there is zero argument. I will ask you to go to the hospital ER immediately and if you refuse I will call 911. I won't waste time arguing with alcoholism when minutes count to get stomach pumped and IVs going or whatever the hell they do. When the doctors have the alcoholism at bay and my sober wife is back I will bring her home and be loving and kind and stifle any desire to scream and yell.
A week ago I thought I needed a before and after plan and really it is the same plan. A newborn with an intoxicated person might be in much more danger than a newborn IN an intoxicated person. Falls, bathtubs, rolling over... can't and won't even think about it. An intoxicated person can't be responsible for our baby. So the boundary and response is only slightly different: If she gets intoxicated after the baby gets here she has to leave until she is sober and leave without the baby. I am not going to argue with or reason with an addict while they are using. I will wait til my DAW is back and sober to talk. So... I was thinking that I'd research all the treatment options and make a folder... nonsense, not my sobriety, not my rehab. When I communicate the boundaries and how I intend to enforce them I will ask her to tell me whom to call to pick her up or where to drop her off. If the time ever comes then it's her plan, not mine. If she won't give me a plan that's cool too. No arguing, will take her to a facility of my choice and if the addiction wants to argue then 911 and let them figure it out. I can't figure it out, I'm not in that line of work. I can't uproot myself and the kids because an addiction wants to argue and refuse to leave. When my wife gets back, she'll understand. I'll hold her and hug her and welcome her home and hand her the baby and be thrilled.
So that leaves only one obvious question... "So how long would you put up with that? how many trips to rehab? what if the person she calls to get her is a dude?" ...God Bless you Tuffgirl, you gave me the answer. I don't have any clue and I won't unless and until that time comes and meanwhile I am planning a family, not an escape route and I am doing it one day at a time. For my own sanity and my own recovery I just need to know what to do next time if there is a next time, and not ten times from now when the situation is different. My boundary for now is that I won't have an addict around when they using. I don't have to tell my DAW a set of rules. Just: Honey, if there comes a time when you stumble and are drunk then I will need you to leave until you sober up and once you do I'll be thrilled to have you come home.
Because right now, that solves the problem I have RIGHT NOW and I don't know what my problems will be a week from now or a year from now and it does not matter what they were a week ago or a year ago.
So I feel relieved about that. That leaves how to word this to her and communicate it in a way that is not threatening or disrespectful. Dear God, that poor thing had to deal with the humiliation and disappointment of resetting the clock at day 1, admitting it to everyone including the doctors and her husband was an ass and made her feel worse until you guys slapped some sense into him. No more of that, alcoholism is dehumanizing and humiliating enough without me helping it.
Any thoughts, suggestion or experience on how to articulate (or enforce firmly but respectfully) those boundaries?
Thanks for being here when I needed help guys. Asking for help has never been my best or most utilized skill.
thanks to a lot of loving help and a few kind thwacks upside my melon this week I am much more at peace with everything.
I get that I did not cuase, can't cure and can't control alcoholism.
I get that my AW needs a husband, not a warden
I get that her recovery (or not) is her business and that if I really want to help then I need to work on me and make sure I am sane
I get this is a one day at a time thing and I need to deal with what is and don't have to deal with what was and can't know what will be.
It's been freeing and enlightening and so good for both of us this week. The tug of war we've been having was so simple to fix... I just dropped the rope on my way to an Al-anon meeting.
So now I am focusing on my recovery and how I can insulate myself from the frenzied emotions that future runins with this disease would cause. I know there will be challenges but I love my wife as much as I hate the disease she has so hey, let's go....
There is one thing I do have to figure out and then communicate to her and here is where I could really use some experienced hands... both from those who have the illness and those like me who live with someone who does.
It's boundaries.
I went through a lot of thinking on this, my list got smaller each time until I got it down to pretty much just this:
"I am not willing to deal with an addict while they are using".
My wife's one lapse - she took a drink while we were on vacation last week the hurled it back when she felt the baby move. (Other threads on this) I freaked out, she freaked out... kid slept through it and everyone is OK. Mom has new 24 hr chip, dad is going to alanon and posting here and we've addressed it as best we can. I've stopped interrogating and making plans to alter my life to babysit her... Yada Yada
So my one sentence had a lot of elements to it. The longer version would be that I won't have an addict living with me while using, won't let them handle the baby when he gets here, drive cars I am responsible for, won't try to reason or argue with them but won't judge or seek to punish them. This is just my boundary. I am in love with and took vows with someone who is afflicted with alcoholism and it ain't like she told me the next day. Time to pull on my big boy pants and deal with it.
I also thought about, ok, how to enforce that boundary. Tuffgirl's story helped... she said something about having the right to set boundaries and the right to determine how flexible she wants to be enforcing them. See that is good. I would hate to set a boundary then not enforce it.
If she slips again in a similar fashion i may handle it in a similar fashion (ie, nothing to do). But I need to be a good dad first since I don't get to decide what he is willing to tolerate, my job is to put his welfare first, period, if there are ever comes a time when his mother can't despite her immeasurable love for him. Alcoholism doesn't give a damn if you love people or are pregnant. So while she is pregnant I think the boundary and how it will be enforced is this... No need to say 'please don't even have a sip'... she knows that. I just need a simple cause and effect: If you have a relapse and you are intoxicated or I believe you are intoxicated then there is zero argument. I will ask you to go to the hospital ER immediately and if you refuse I will call 911. I won't waste time arguing with alcoholism when minutes count to get stomach pumped and IVs going or whatever the hell they do. When the doctors have the alcoholism at bay and my sober wife is back I will bring her home and be loving and kind and stifle any desire to scream and yell.
A week ago I thought I needed a before and after plan and really it is the same plan. A newborn with an intoxicated person might be in much more danger than a newborn IN an intoxicated person. Falls, bathtubs, rolling over... can't and won't even think about it. An intoxicated person can't be responsible for our baby. So the boundary and response is only slightly different: If she gets intoxicated after the baby gets here she has to leave until she is sober and leave without the baby. I am not going to argue with or reason with an addict while they are using. I will wait til my DAW is back and sober to talk. So... I was thinking that I'd research all the treatment options and make a folder... nonsense, not my sobriety, not my rehab. When I communicate the boundaries and how I intend to enforce them I will ask her to tell me whom to call to pick her up or where to drop her off. If the time ever comes then it's her plan, not mine. If she won't give me a plan that's cool too. No arguing, will take her to a facility of my choice and if the addiction wants to argue then 911 and let them figure it out. I can't figure it out, I'm not in that line of work. I can't uproot myself and the kids because an addiction wants to argue and refuse to leave. When my wife gets back, she'll understand. I'll hold her and hug her and welcome her home and hand her the baby and be thrilled.
So that leaves only one obvious question... "So how long would you put up with that? how many trips to rehab? what if the person she calls to get her is a dude?" ...God Bless you Tuffgirl, you gave me the answer. I don't have any clue and I won't unless and until that time comes and meanwhile I am planning a family, not an escape route and I am doing it one day at a time. For my own sanity and my own recovery I just need to know what to do next time if there is a next time, and not ten times from now when the situation is different. My boundary for now is that I won't have an addict around when they using. I don't have to tell my DAW a set of rules. Just: Honey, if there comes a time when you stumble and are drunk then I will need you to leave until you sober up and once you do I'll be thrilled to have you come home.
Because right now, that solves the problem I have RIGHT NOW and I don't know what my problems will be a week from now or a year from now and it does not matter what they were a week ago or a year ago.
So I feel relieved about that. That leaves how to word this to her and communicate it in a way that is not threatening or disrespectful. Dear God, that poor thing had to deal with the humiliation and disappointment of resetting the clock at day 1, admitting it to everyone including the doctors and her husband was an ass and made her feel worse until you guys slapped some sense into him. No more of that, alcoholism is dehumanizing and humiliating enough without me helping it.
Any thoughts, suggestion or experience on how to articulate (or enforce firmly but respectfully) those boundaries?
Thanks for being here when I needed help guys. Asking for help has never been my best or most utilized skill.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Pohs Friend,
I have been reading your story and have started to post several times but you seem to be getting an understanding from the other excellent posts that you responded to.
I have had children with an addict... fortunately I was carrying them so that wasn't an issue and had it been I would have been just as wound up as you are.
I am going to share some hard stuff with you and I have the battlescars and history to help you avoid finding this out during the potential crisis's that may or may not come.
First... sadly, the odds are against you. As you know most marriages fail and ones that involve addiction are especially fragile. Most alcoholics fail to achieve true spiritual recovery... psychic change and healing. Your wife sounds exceptional and you sound very special yourself. Our prayers are with you and we all are hoping that she is one of the teensy percentage that find their way out.
Marriage is temporary but divorce is forever. Divorce, raising children with addicts is not a picnic. I raised my two kids alone and put them through college. The hardest part was watching them grow up and discover their dad was a loser. Hero to Zero. So sad.
Knowing the poor odds and the lack of control on your part it is wise to create boundaries and plan b and plan c... especially since there is very real possibility you will raise a child alone or have a lifelong challenge of parenting with an active alcoholic you are seperated from. Both will be difficult and potentially horrendous... no sense mincing words or not shooting you straight.
For me it was an alcohol and drug free boundary. No exceptions. First husband and baby daddy developed a fondness for cocaine and slipping around with another gal. He was curbed and divorced. After kids grew up I "fell in love" again. Second XA was an alkie who I met during a long recovery stint. If he drank he was out. I ejected him immediately lock stock and barrel. We were not "legally married" (learned that from divorce number one) so that made it easier to do that. Being married gives your wife legal rights to share you residence drinking or not. So... if you choose this route then you will need to escape with your child if she starts drinking or figure out some other alternative.
You have mentioned contracts, 911 calls, stomach pumping etc... I have gone the "contract" route with my own XA and he completely agreed that if he drank again our "relapse plan" was for him to go straight to rehab. Problem is contracts don't mean anything once alcohol has entered the picture and the brain has gone to mush... You could have the contract written in stone and video her telling herself to go to rehab and she will stare it you like you have 3 heads.
I picked up my XA and already had his bag packed and drove straight to rehab. He got out of the car and walked straight past the entrance to the liquor store. I didn't see him again for about 6 weeks. I had packed his stuff up on day one soon as I got back from rehab.
As for 911 and pumping stomachs... she has to agree. If she doesn't you would have to get a Baker Act which is supposed to be for mental illness. In Florida we have a Marchman Act that will get an addict forced into treatment. It will not happen instantly and alcohol processes very quickly.
You will need to see a lawyer to see if there are any case history or laws that could help you take emergency action if she were to relapse. It doesn't sound like this is an immediate danger and honestly the baby is old enough to have already escaped the dangers of fetal alcohol syndrome... it is pretty "well done" and about to pop out of the "oven". Even if she were tie one on and have a real good drunk the baby will be just having a good time and probably have a hangover with mommy in the morning. Talk to doc about the dangers of relapse...
More importantly I think you need to find out why you are drawn to this gal as your family history is a BIG part of the attraction. I know because I have the same affliction and am drawn to needy dysfunctional guys and boy do they make my heart "skip a beat too". Unfortunately we believe it is "love" and frankly it is our hardwiring from our childhoods and chemicals, hormones, oxytocin, adrenalin and on and on ad nauseum.
Don't get me wrong... I am sure she is great and fabulous person (please have her read this too) and I am FOR YOU BOTH... but the problem is not if she drinks in the next few weeks it is unraveling who we are! Why we are the way we are and why we love who we love and why we stay in unhealthy relationships. It because they make us skip a beat... shazaaaaam!!!
My great guy... simply the most amazing handsome man on the planet was absolutely positively going to be one of the exceptions and we were going to live happily ever after! After 4 long years of helcoptering and analyzing and running interference, counseling, AA, Alanon and hundreds of articles and books and cycles of drinking, detoxing, rehabbing, abstinence, real recovery (fleeting usually) and then drinking, detoxing, rehabbing... you get the picture... rinse and repeat.
It is the alcoholic codependent dance. The roller coaster. The elevator to hell. It never ends. Most of the time. Your wife is so wise to be afraid... very afraid. And so are you. Alcoholism is a killer... it is so difficult to kill this beast dead. It plays possum. A lot.
But... now that i have spread all of that sunshine there is way out. It is complete and utter stark raving honesty and real honest relentless recovery. Serious AA... 12 steps all the way... every day. Live it every minute. Both of you. Get sponsors that you FEEL something that you want to have... spiritual recovery. Listen to them.
Find really really great counselors that understand addiction and search out your childhood... we are hardwired... really. We dont' even remember all the trauma's as it is too hard... I have blocked so much.
The ones we are looking for are ourselves. We often try to "fix" the parent who was emotionally unavailable by being attracted to someone who reminds us of that parent. I always do... the one I cannot resist is charming, handsome, sparkling eyes, witty, funny, totally hot body and alcoholic... always addictive. Just like daddy who never held me or told me he loved me. ever. I have to fix daddy and I am drawn to my daddy over and over again.. or I used to be.
I hung up those spurs. I now spot "daddy" a mile away and turn on my heel and run!!! LOL!
You can't run. You guys are committed. And if you work this thing you can make it. All three of you. But it is work... hard work.
Are you ready???? I can't wait to see baby pics!!!! Can we help you name him?
I have been reading your story and have started to post several times but you seem to be getting an understanding from the other excellent posts that you responded to.
I have had children with an addict... fortunately I was carrying them so that wasn't an issue and had it been I would have been just as wound up as you are.
I am going to share some hard stuff with you and I have the battlescars and history to help you avoid finding this out during the potential crisis's that may or may not come.
First... sadly, the odds are against you. As you know most marriages fail and ones that involve addiction are especially fragile. Most alcoholics fail to achieve true spiritual recovery... psychic change and healing. Your wife sounds exceptional and you sound very special yourself. Our prayers are with you and we all are hoping that she is one of the teensy percentage that find their way out.
Marriage is temporary but divorce is forever. Divorce, raising children with addicts is not a picnic. I raised my two kids alone and put them through college. The hardest part was watching them grow up and discover their dad was a loser. Hero to Zero. So sad.
Knowing the poor odds and the lack of control on your part it is wise to create boundaries and plan b and plan c... especially since there is very real possibility you will raise a child alone or have a lifelong challenge of parenting with an active alcoholic you are seperated from. Both will be difficult and potentially horrendous... no sense mincing words or not shooting you straight.
For me it was an alcohol and drug free boundary. No exceptions. First husband and baby daddy developed a fondness for cocaine and slipping around with another gal. He was curbed and divorced. After kids grew up I "fell in love" again. Second XA was an alkie who I met during a long recovery stint. If he drank he was out. I ejected him immediately lock stock and barrel. We were not "legally married" (learned that from divorce number one) so that made it easier to do that. Being married gives your wife legal rights to share you residence drinking or not. So... if you choose this route then you will need to escape with your child if she starts drinking or figure out some other alternative.
You have mentioned contracts, 911 calls, stomach pumping etc... I have gone the "contract" route with my own XA and he completely agreed that if he drank again our "relapse plan" was for him to go straight to rehab. Problem is contracts don't mean anything once alcohol has entered the picture and the brain has gone to mush... You could have the contract written in stone and video her telling herself to go to rehab and she will stare it you like you have 3 heads.
I picked up my XA and already had his bag packed and drove straight to rehab. He got out of the car and walked straight past the entrance to the liquor store. I didn't see him again for about 6 weeks. I had packed his stuff up on day one soon as I got back from rehab.
As for 911 and pumping stomachs... she has to agree. If she doesn't you would have to get a Baker Act which is supposed to be for mental illness. In Florida we have a Marchman Act that will get an addict forced into treatment. It will not happen instantly and alcohol processes very quickly.
You will need to see a lawyer to see if there are any case history or laws that could help you take emergency action if she were to relapse. It doesn't sound like this is an immediate danger and honestly the baby is old enough to have already escaped the dangers of fetal alcohol syndrome... it is pretty "well done" and about to pop out of the "oven". Even if she were tie one on and have a real good drunk the baby will be just having a good time and probably have a hangover with mommy in the morning. Talk to doc about the dangers of relapse...
More importantly I think you need to find out why you are drawn to this gal as your family history is a BIG part of the attraction. I know because I have the same affliction and am drawn to needy dysfunctional guys and boy do they make my heart "skip a beat too". Unfortunately we believe it is "love" and frankly it is our hardwiring from our childhoods and chemicals, hormones, oxytocin, adrenalin and on and on ad nauseum.
Don't get me wrong... I am sure she is great and fabulous person (please have her read this too) and I am FOR YOU BOTH... but the problem is not if she drinks in the next few weeks it is unraveling who we are! Why we are the way we are and why we love who we love and why we stay in unhealthy relationships. It because they make us skip a beat... shazaaaaam!!!
My great guy... simply the most amazing handsome man on the planet was absolutely positively going to be one of the exceptions and we were going to live happily ever after! After 4 long years of helcoptering and analyzing and running interference, counseling, AA, Alanon and hundreds of articles and books and cycles of drinking, detoxing, rehabbing, abstinence, real recovery (fleeting usually) and then drinking, detoxing, rehabbing... you get the picture... rinse and repeat.
It is the alcoholic codependent dance. The roller coaster. The elevator to hell. It never ends. Most of the time. Your wife is so wise to be afraid... very afraid. And so are you. Alcoholism is a killer... it is so difficult to kill this beast dead. It plays possum. A lot.
But... now that i have spread all of that sunshine there is way out. It is complete and utter stark raving honesty and real honest relentless recovery. Serious AA... 12 steps all the way... every day. Live it every minute. Both of you. Get sponsors that you FEEL something that you want to have... spiritual recovery. Listen to them.
Find really really great counselors that understand addiction and search out your childhood... we are hardwired... really. We dont' even remember all the trauma's as it is too hard... I have blocked so much.
The ones we are looking for are ourselves. We often try to "fix" the parent who was emotionally unavailable by being attracted to someone who reminds us of that parent. I always do... the one I cannot resist is charming, handsome, sparkling eyes, witty, funny, totally hot body and alcoholic... always addictive. Just like daddy who never held me or told me he loved me. ever. I have to fix daddy and I am drawn to my daddy over and over again.. or I used to be.
I hung up those spurs. I now spot "daddy" a mile away and turn on my heel and run!!! LOL!
You can't run. You guys are committed. And if you work this thing you can make it. All three of you. But it is work... hard work.
Are you ready???? I can't wait to see baby pics!!!! Can we help you name him?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Oh Boy...
...this is a tough one for me, but I've seen some great posts on the subject. Do a forum search for "Setting Boundaries" and see what comes up. Or just "Boundaries."
Other people who get this more than me will be along shortly.
C-
Other people who get this more than me will be along shortly.
C-
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
I guess I should tell you what happened with my XA that I believed was going to make it. He was sober for some pretty impressive periods... one year, 6 months, 3 months many times.
He was doing so great and we were sooo happy. We moved into our dream home and 10 days later he was drunk. 2 weeks later he was in Vegas for 3 months. Put himself in residential treatment for 2 months. Sober living facility for 1 month. Was driving home from the east coast and veered off the highway into a casino in Biloxi. Relapsed and arrested for DUI. Got out and kept headed west and veered off the highway into a casino in Oklahoma. Burnt his mercedes up (no insurance) and was arrested for public intox. Serving 30 days.
I have not been with him since February and have been nc. My phone is set to quack if he calls. So sad. He gets arrested a lot more than my dad...my dad was a functional alcoholic. Other than that... two peas in a pod. Doing what alcoholics do... they drink. and get in trouble. and make us crazy...or in my case.... used to.
And that... is the rest of my story.
He was doing so great and we were sooo happy. We moved into our dream home and 10 days later he was drunk. 2 weeks later he was in Vegas for 3 months. Put himself in residential treatment for 2 months. Sober living facility for 1 month. Was driving home from the east coast and veered off the highway into a casino in Biloxi. Relapsed and arrested for DUI. Got out and kept headed west and veered off the highway into a casino in Oklahoma. Burnt his mercedes up (no insurance) and was arrested for public intox. Serving 30 days.
I have not been with him since February and have been nc. My phone is set to quack if he calls. So sad. He gets arrested a lot more than my dad...my dad was a functional alcoholic. Other than that... two peas in a pod. Doing what alcoholics do... they drink. and get in trouble. and make us crazy...or in my case.... used to.
And that... is the rest of my story.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by choublak 
And what was he doing in Vegas?
He is rated and knows people. This time through some skulduggery he was in penthouses and seemed to survive quite well. However...Caesars finally figured out he wasn't a high roller and booted him into the street. He got sober and then relapsed again. His gambling luck ran out in Lousiana and Oklahoma on those gambling stints and he ended up in jail in both places.
He is cooling his heels in a Okie jail for 30 days now. All his belongings were in the Mercedes he burnt to a crisp. Oh well. Guess he will be walking a thousand miles to get home or have to get a job in Oklahoma since he gambled his last penny in a casino.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
Interesting. I have a lot of uncles who are recovering alcoholics, as well as one who was killed when he hit a tree head on while driving drunk. The way my family (my mom's extended side) views alcoholism is like, okay you (you being the A) have this problem with alcohol, it's not your fault and it's nothing to be ashamed of, but you can't have alcohol because it will kill you. So, my mom or any of her siblings would have been like, "what was he doing in Vegas? He doesn't need to be in Vegas." With them it's like, "if he/she is an alcoholic, he/she doesn't need to be drinking/has no business drinking" instead of "that's what alcoholics do". I don't know why they (my mom's family) are like that. It's not like they say it with the intention of "fixing" the A either...they're just stating the facts.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Thanks hopeworks. That reply took time and thought.
We talked about this tonight and the thought of leaving bothers her but she gets it.
The idea of contracts and what not is out the window. That would be worthless and I get that.
I can't live with an addict who is using, your post and so many others here make that clear. However, we are doing this and for my own sanity I have to balance between being sensible and being committed. Our odds suck, one of the degrees in my drawer is in statistics so I get that. Add up our negatives and maybe our odds are 1in 5.
But ...I've got a lot of practice beating long odds and so does she.
A lot of the horror stories I read about and hear about match her in terms of the drinking but not in the other areas... Ie, not mean or otherwise difficult, just got sad and scared and kinda lost.
I also know about the special joy of coparenting with a whacked out coparenting. I raised a daughter who is great whose mom doesn't drink... She's just nuts.
So yep, I have issues too. Mine are mommy issues I'm working through after 40 odd years. My wife has her baggage as well but we've both come far from there and are both working out our stuff with ITs and together with an MC.
So kinda like alcoholism, we are dealing with where we are and where we want to go. I can't go back in time, I don't regret getting married and the baby ain't gonna give us a few years to prepare. So focusing on positives is what we can do. Radical honesty and being real with each other is a must.
Marriages fail at an alarming rate, if one in five or one in ten works then the 9 are there to study for things to avoid and the one is what I need to understand and emulate. I sure didn't aspire to become an al-anon meeting junkie but I'm there because it seems to work. Add in therapy (we both found an IC we love). Not sure on the mc yet but will give her two more "how do you feel about that" sessions before we hold auditions for another - hell, what fun we'd be to work with!
So I guess what I am saying is that we are doing everything we can think of to be that one in ten and will keep looking for more ideas and doing what we need to do.
I get the odds and don't like them, now I am in OK, teach me what works mode and if I have a strength it is that I adapt and learn and seek out my weaknesses and work on changing without an ego in the way. It's how I have succeeded in just about everything I've tried and dedicated myself to.
Is that enough? No.... But it is a start.
We were not supposed to fall in love and we weren't supposed to be where we are this soon. Over the last year we have been through an awful lot. No matter how tough things were there was one other thing that we have going for us. We love each other, lots. We aren't 20 year old kids, we were drawn to each other and have been inseparable. She digs me too :-). I wish she wasn't an alcoholic but she is. She's also the most loving and caring person I've ever known so I'm all in, I have to be.
So ive always said that life is hard, wear a cup :-). Whether we succeed or fail remains to be seen. Whether we do everything within our power to make it work out is decided.
So what did the ten percent do? I need to focus on what I can control, not the stuff I can't.
Thanks guys. Add "I have some good friends who've been there and I go to them for help" to the list of counselors and programs we are taking advantage of.
We talked about this tonight and the thought of leaving bothers her but she gets it.
The idea of contracts and what not is out the window. That would be worthless and I get that.
I can't live with an addict who is using, your post and so many others here make that clear. However, we are doing this and for my own sanity I have to balance between being sensible and being committed. Our odds suck, one of the degrees in my drawer is in statistics so I get that. Add up our negatives and maybe our odds are 1in 5.
But ...I've got a lot of practice beating long odds and so does she.
A lot of the horror stories I read about and hear about match her in terms of the drinking but not in the other areas... Ie, not mean or otherwise difficult, just got sad and scared and kinda lost.
I also know about the special joy of coparenting with a whacked out coparenting. I raised a daughter who is great whose mom doesn't drink... She's just nuts.
So yep, I have issues too. Mine are mommy issues I'm working through after 40 odd years. My wife has her baggage as well but we've both come far from there and are both working out our stuff with ITs and together with an MC.
So kinda like alcoholism, we are dealing with where we are and where we want to go. I can't go back in time, I don't regret getting married and the baby ain't gonna give us a few years to prepare. So focusing on positives is what we can do. Radical honesty and being real with each other is a must.
Marriages fail at an alarming rate, if one in five or one in ten works then the 9 are there to study for things to avoid and the one is what I need to understand and emulate. I sure didn't aspire to become an al-anon meeting junkie but I'm there because it seems to work. Add in therapy (we both found an IC we love). Not sure on the mc yet but will give her two more "how do you feel about that" sessions before we hold auditions for another - hell, what fun we'd be to work with!
So I guess what I am saying is that we are doing everything we can think of to be that one in ten and will keep looking for more ideas and doing what we need to do.
I get the odds and don't like them, now I am in OK, teach me what works mode and if I have a strength it is that I adapt and learn and seek out my weaknesses and work on changing without an ego in the way. It's how I have succeeded in just about everything I've tried and dedicated myself to.
Is that enough? No.... But it is a start.
We were not supposed to fall in love and we weren't supposed to be where we are this soon. Over the last year we have been through an awful lot. No matter how tough things were there was one other thing that we have going for us. We love each other, lots. We aren't 20 year old kids, we were drawn to each other and have been inseparable. She digs me too :-). I wish she wasn't an alcoholic but she is. She's also the most loving and caring person I've ever known so I'm all in, I have to be.
So ive always said that life is hard, wear a cup :-). Whether we succeed or fail remains to be seen. Whether we do everything within our power to make it work out is decided.
So what did the ten percent do? I need to focus on what I can control, not the stuff I can't.
Thanks guys. Add "I have some good friends who've been there and I go to them for help" to the list of counselors and programs we are taking advantage of.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 61
I hit my bottom and set a boundary 3 years ago, at 26 yrs of marriage- "I will not be around my AH when he is drunk, drinking, or smells like booze". He consistently disrespected my clearly stated boundary, causing me to do some pretty crazy things on the spur of the moment for 3 years, like keeping a "ditch bag" packed so I could leave at a moment's notice, sometimes at the costly expense of a hotel room. It is incredible to think I lived with that insanity, but sick people make you sick. AH progressed to the point where I could not interact with him at all if he was drunk, and he was simply always drunk. He moved out 2 months ago, after 29 yrs of marriage.
I'm not sure how you can enforce a boundary of having your wife leave. It is her home, too, and she can refuse treatment if she wants to. The only power you have is your own actions.
This is so hard.
I also love my husband as much as I hate this disease.
I'm not sure how you can enforce a boundary of having your wife leave. It is her home, too, and she can refuse treatment if she wants to. The only power you have is your own actions.
This is so hard.
I also love my husband as much as I hate this disease.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Cool.
I will share what worked for us when it worked... there were times that were awesome... incredible... amazing... connections. He COULD of been my soulmate... he*%... he was my soul mate. Simply no one made me feel like he did...ever.... when he was right... when he was himself I was simply crazy about him.
There were those times were when he was in total recovery... spiritual recovery. We attended great Big Book meetings, speaker meetings, and he went to his own AA meetings alone as well as I went to alanon meetings alone. We had quiet times together every morning where we prayed together and talked about life and important things...deep things. I loved it and so did he. We were in love with our HP and eachother. It was incredible for long periods of time but it always ended...he always ended up picking up a drink and turning into some stranger...some evil man...so alien...so selfish...so mean. Ugh.
And that is what is so sad. He would lose focus on his recovery. He was ADD and possibly bipolar or had bipolar tendancies. He would neglect his recovery program... I would see the relapse coming... no secrets here. It is always obvious. The A wants to drink and sets the stage to drink.
I learned how to not nag or control (I had done that for years) I learned how to stay in my own hula hoop. I offered to go to AA meetings with him. Reminded him that his recovery was his and that I was praying for him but my boundary was NO... repeat... NO alcohol.
There was nothing I could do or say to change the course...he would drink. It was inevitable. And he... the love of my life would be gone... poof. And in his place was some alien being...an evil... hateful... selfish... creepy person.
Tragic. Sad. Horrible. But I can't go down with him and so like it was in the scene on the Titanic when she let him go to sink in the darkness of the sea I had to let him go to fight the battle alone. It is his to fight as it will be hers to fight. Alone. You can only support and pray for her and deal with your own recovery.
More will be revealed. Time tells all. And so it goes. My love of my life... the one who I will always love didn't make it. Even if he were to suddenly pull it all together I would never take another chance on him. ever. it's over forever.
But you still have the magic. The sparkle. The endorphins, the oxytocin, the adrenalin. That sizzling connection when your eyes meet. And you have some gray matter and a beautiful baby on the way!!!! Wow! This can work if you work it.... it CAN be a happy ending. If you respect your opponent... the disease and take recovery seriously.
Those who thoroughly follow the path and work the steps on a DAILY basis have never been known to fail. It is those who wander off the path...listen to the acoholic voice that relapse. Working a joint program together every single day will insure success!!!!
He just didn't do it... but that is his problem. What are you going to do? What is your wife going to do? If his story... my story... in some way helped your wife, your child and yourself overcome addiction... well... it would help me make some sense of my own journey and I hope you will remember to come back and share with us how your family works out. I am praying for you all that you will... in fact... beat the odds.
Miracles do happen... they are just rare.
I didn't get my miracle. But it would be an awesome thing if you got yours! And I am praying that you do....
I will share what worked for us when it worked... there were times that were awesome... incredible... amazing... connections. He COULD of been my soulmate... he*%... he was my soul mate. Simply no one made me feel like he did...ever.... when he was right... when he was himself I was simply crazy about him.
There were those times were when he was in total recovery... spiritual recovery. We attended great Big Book meetings, speaker meetings, and he went to his own AA meetings alone as well as I went to alanon meetings alone. We had quiet times together every morning where we prayed together and talked about life and important things...deep things. I loved it and so did he. We were in love with our HP and eachother. It was incredible for long periods of time but it always ended...he always ended up picking up a drink and turning into some stranger...some evil man...so alien...so selfish...so mean. Ugh.
And that is what is so sad. He would lose focus on his recovery. He was ADD and possibly bipolar or had bipolar tendancies. He would neglect his recovery program... I would see the relapse coming... no secrets here. It is always obvious. The A wants to drink and sets the stage to drink.
I learned how to not nag or control (I had done that for years) I learned how to stay in my own hula hoop. I offered to go to AA meetings with him. Reminded him that his recovery was his and that I was praying for him but my boundary was NO... repeat... NO alcohol.
There was nothing I could do or say to change the course...he would drink. It was inevitable. And he... the love of my life would be gone... poof. And in his place was some alien being...an evil... hateful... selfish... creepy person.
Tragic. Sad. Horrible. But I can't go down with him and so like it was in the scene on the Titanic when she let him go to sink in the darkness of the sea I had to let him go to fight the battle alone. It is his to fight as it will be hers to fight. Alone. You can only support and pray for her and deal with your own recovery.
More will be revealed. Time tells all. And so it goes. My love of my life... the one who I will always love didn't make it. Even if he were to suddenly pull it all together I would never take another chance on him. ever. it's over forever.
But you still have the magic. The sparkle. The endorphins, the oxytocin, the adrenalin. That sizzling connection when your eyes meet. And you have some gray matter and a beautiful baby on the way!!!! Wow! This can work if you work it.... it CAN be a happy ending. If you respect your opponent... the disease and take recovery seriously.
Those who thoroughly follow the path and work the steps on a DAILY basis have never been known to fail. It is those who wander off the path...listen to the acoholic voice that relapse. Working a joint program together every single day will insure success!!!!
He just didn't do it... but that is his problem. What are you going to do? What is your wife going to do? If his story... my story... in some way helped your wife, your child and yourself overcome addiction... well... it would help me make some sense of my own journey and I hope you will remember to come back and share with us how your family works out. I am praying for you all that you will... in fact... beat the odds.
Miracles do happen... they are just rare.
I didn't get my miracle. But it would be an awesome thing if you got yours! And I am praying that you do....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by PohsFriend
I also thought about, ok, how to enforce that boundary. Tuffgirl's story helped... she said something about having the right to set boundaries and the right to determine how flexible she wants to be enforcing them. See that is good. I would hate to set a boundary then not enforce it.
For example, up until this divorce, I had not wanted to just "live with someone". It was a boundary. I pushed that line with my now ex, but not to a point where I was ashamed of myself. Now that I am older, with one kid in college and one in the later years of high school, the idea of marrying again seems unnecessary, and the idea of just living with someone no longer seems like the wrong thing for me. So my boundary is changing, because I am changing.
I see people take the whole concept of personal boundaries as a method of controlling others. They set a boundary, shove it down your throat, and katy-bar-the-door if you cross that boundary, even inadvertently. I strive to not be rigid and controlling with my boundaries. They are my own rules to live by; what I will and won't do or accept in my life.
Here's an example of that: my (now ex) has a boundary that he won't tolerate his wife being "inappropriate with other men". Ok, but that is so vague and ambiguous that it was impossible to determine what that actually meant. If I was kind to other men, I was a tramp. If I accepted influence (i.e. advice, etc.) from other men, I was cheating. Having a relationship with my own Father was questioned. That boundary was his way of controlling me as well as satisfying his insane jealousy and insecurity.
You enforced a very good boundary - maybe not even realizing it - when you dropped her drunk butt off at her brothers. That's a great place to start! Obviously you knew there was nothing you could do for her, but you could remove the stressor from your life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Thanks TG,
My understanding and hence my boundaries are evolving very quickly. The boundaries are to keep me sane and they are basically fear based. When we talked about this last night it was tricky. I had to convey that if she starts drinking then I just can't deal with it and so I just won't.... Getting out (hopefully to a hospital but ultimately that's her call) until the addict is gone and my wife is back is where I think the line is. She said that every situation is different, if she's been drinking and keeps going that's one thing but say if she's drunk but has been working on recovery and understands that she messed up and does all the right things and stops right then....
It was hard to say it but I was proud of myself for seeing the trap there. I said "honey, that means I would have to judge you and either give my wife a pass or fail grade on her recovery while arguing with the addiction. I can't."
This is not about judging or consequences or punishment. It isn't about how you respond, it would come down to how I grade MY response. If I am uneasy or it is preventing me from doing what I have to do then I will need to manage myself and the kids until you are ok and arguing with or trying to negotiate with the addiction is something I can't do.
It's tough. I know she is likely to be pissed if that happens but she can be pissed. If she drinks, it will leave me to handle my family responsibilities and hers. If she had cancer and was in the hospital I would not mind that or resent her. My fear is that if she was here and drunk I was stepping around the addiction while pulling double duty it would **** me off and I would get angry and resentful.
My kids don't need an angry resentful daddy, wife doesn't need a resentful and bitter husband, my career requires focus and I need some control over my life.
So for now, that's my sanity plan. I refuse, sans guilt or justification, to have the active addiction around me or the kids so I can be a happy husband and father when my loving wife returns.
Not a perfect plan but alcoholism defies, circumvents, ignores and attacks every rational plan. When I fought cancer they cut it out. Alcoholism is worse. My battle was easy, win or lose it would be over quickly. Alcoholism can make the afflicted party and everyone who loves them suffer for a lifetime unless you can find a way to separate the disease from the patient.
Hmmmm... Still imperfect, if she had cancer I'd babysit her at home. Crap, another ethical conundrum.
My understanding and hence my boundaries are evolving very quickly. The boundaries are to keep me sane and they are basically fear based. When we talked about this last night it was tricky. I had to convey that if she starts drinking then I just can't deal with it and so I just won't.... Getting out (hopefully to a hospital but ultimately that's her call) until the addict is gone and my wife is back is where I think the line is. She said that every situation is different, if she's been drinking and keeps going that's one thing but say if she's drunk but has been working on recovery and understands that she messed up and does all the right things and stops right then....
It was hard to say it but I was proud of myself for seeing the trap there. I said "honey, that means I would have to judge you and either give my wife a pass or fail grade on her recovery while arguing with the addiction. I can't."
This is not about judging or consequences or punishment. It isn't about how you respond, it would come down to how I grade MY response. If I am uneasy or it is preventing me from doing what I have to do then I will need to manage myself and the kids until you are ok and arguing with or trying to negotiate with the addiction is something I can't do.
It's tough. I know she is likely to be pissed if that happens but she can be pissed. If she drinks, it will leave me to handle my family responsibilities and hers. If she had cancer and was in the hospital I would not mind that or resent her. My fear is that if she was here and drunk I was stepping around the addiction while pulling double duty it would **** me off and I would get angry and resentful.
My kids don't need an angry resentful daddy, wife doesn't need a resentful and bitter husband, my career requires focus and I need some control over my life.
So for now, that's my sanity plan. I refuse, sans guilt or justification, to have the active addiction around me or the kids so I can be a happy husband and father when my loving wife returns.
Not a perfect plan but alcoholism defies, circumvents, ignores and attacks every rational plan. When I fought cancer they cut it out. Alcoholism is worse. My battle was easy, win or lose it would be over quickly. Alcoholism can make the afflicted party and everyone who loves them suffer for a lifetime unless you can find a way to separate the disease from the patient.
Hmmmm... Still imperfect, if she had cancer I'd babysit her at home. Crap, another ethical conundrum.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
My boundary for my RAH who has been sober for 3 years, is a very simple one, but has a very deep meaning.
If you relapse, I'm done.
I know for you that doesn't seem to be the direction you are going with setting a boundary, and I understand that. My deep thoughts that go into the meaning is this:
If you drink, your liver will die
If you drink, you may have a wreck with children in the car, and kill everyone
If you drink, I may lose the best man in my life to a horrible death
If you drink, every word you say is a lie
If you drink, our daughter becomes as dysfunctional as you
If you drink, life just sucks
If you drink, you may accidentally set the house on fire
If you drink, you may being emotionally detached from our daughter
If you drink, you may unintentionally verbally hurt someone
If you drink, you will most likely lose your job
If you drink, lose your job, we lose our home
I think when I look at all of the things that could happen if he drinks again, then I can start writing down each boundary for each thing. From there I can come up with the boundary in the simplest terms for ME, as it applies to his drinking and My reaction.
Simplest terms for me then become, if you drink, I'm done.
I am sure some As do stuff intentionally, but many just become careless, and hurt others unintentionally, but just the same, it still causes harm to others. Sometimes it seems harsh to set a hard firm boundary, but after you have lived in hell with the A, or seen the devastation, you know the insane possibilities that happen when the A is actively drinking.
It seems your wife has remorse over her relapse. It really does seem that she is sincere about not drinking while she is pregnant. I would almost bet she doesn't have another relapse while she is pregnant. I really would. But the fact is, if she truly is an alcoholic, she may have a weak moment, and the disease will do what it is forever kicking and screaming to do. Have a drink. That is the only reason I seem so hardcore with my boundaries.
Now on the flip side of that, my RAH has some boundaries for me too. LOL. So it might seem less tedious if she is allowed to set some of her own boundaries??? I have a tendency to go from normal to super B in about 10 seconds so I am not allowed to do that to him. Seems relatively fair, considering I can be straight up mean sometimes. You know?
If you relapse, I'm done.
I know for you that doesn't seem to be the direction you are going with setting a boundary, and I understand that. My deep thoughts that go into the meaning is this:
If you drink, your liver will die
If you drink, you may have a wreck with children in the car, and kill everyone
If you drink, I may lose the best man in my life to a horrible death
If you drink, every word you say is a lie
If you drink, our daughter becomes as dysfunctional as you
If you drink, life just sucks
If you drink, you may accidentally set the house on fire
If you drink, you may being emotionally detached from our daughter
If you drink, you may unintentionally verbally hurt someone
If you drink, you will most likely lose your job
If you drink, lose your job, we lose our home
I think when I look at all of the things that could happen if he drinks again, then I can start writing down each boundary for each thing. From there I can come up with the boundary in the simplest terms for ME, as it applies to his drinking and My reaction.
Simplest terms for me then become, if you drink, I'm done.
I am sure some As do stuff intentionally, but many just become careless, and hurt others unintentionally, but just the same, it still causes harm to others. Sometimes it seems harsh to set a hard firm boundary, but after you have lived in hell with the A, or seen the devastation, you know the insane possibilities that happen when the A is actively drinking.
It seems your wife has remorse over her relapse. It really does seem that she is sincere about not drinking while she is pregnant. I would almost bet she doesn't have another relapse while she is pregnant. I really would. But the fact is, if she truly is an alcoholic, she may have a weak moment, and the disease will do what it is forever kicking and screaming to do. Have a drink. That is the only reason I seem so hardcore with my boundaries.
Now on the flip side of that, my RAH has some boundaries for me too. LOL. So it might seem less tedious if she is allowed to set some of her own boundaries??? I have a tendency to go from normal to super B in about 10 seconds so I am not allowed to do that to him. Seems relatively fair, considering I can be straight up mean sometimes. You know?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Yup. Your story kinda is my nightmare. I figure the best I can do is to try to learn in the next 20 days what a lot of folks here learned over twenty years. Note that I say that with respect and humility - no, I can't know it... but I can have the intellectual honesty to say "hey, I have read 50 stories of people who talked about how the person they adored destroyed their hopes and dreams and sanity once they started drinking.... some of them are every bit as smart and educated and determined as you are so take it to heart and pay attention... don't fall into the 'yeah but we are different' trap". We aren't different. But you started from zero and I can be smart enough to start with the combines experience of everyone here and those at al-anon. That doesn't eliminate the risks, it just lessenes them. I keep thinking 1 in 10 couples makes it through this, let's stay out of the 9.
So what do I do? Well, I ruled out not giving this a shot and believe me - I had an internal fight with that one. I may not be entirely sane but I'm not stupid.
So today my breathtakingly gorgeous, sweet, loving, brave wife is sober and she loves me too and she wants to stay sober. I am content and happy and enjoying it but with an eye toward the forbidding clouds in the distance.
Some people get the fairy tale, some the nightmare, happiness is a decision and a commitment and it requires hard work and lots of self awareness and honesty.
The first rule of lifsaving is "Don't drown", the first pulse you check at an accident scene is your own and I've spent a year trying to solve the problem of my DAWs addiction. Now that I stepped back and started doing a full status check on myself I realize that I have to focus on myself and establish the sort of healthy habits and boundaries and associations that will give me the knowledge and tools I need to cope next time. Last Saturday I was in total shock and handled it poorly. Next time who knows? My goal is to handle it with a shrug and do what I can and/or need to do to keep it from taking a week or a month or a decade out of my life.
Thanks for rooting for us. Who knows if that matters but it matters to me.
I know she is sober now and I love her and I see her sitting there rubbing her stomach with a contented and serene smile and I just melt. I was letting her disease keep me from enjoying the wonderfulness of things like that. No more. I am going to enjoy that. When the alcoholism rears it's nasty little head I'll take her hand and do what I can to stomp that little effer back into it's hole but he doesn't get to take away the indescribable joys of awaiting the arrival of my son with the woman I love.
So what do I do? Well, I ruled out not giving this a shot and believe me - I had an internal fight with that one. I may not be entirely sane but I'm not stupid.
So today my breathtakingly gorgeous, sweet, loving, brave wife is sober and she loves me too and she wants to stay sober. I am content and happy and enjoying it but with an eye toward the forbidding clouds in the distance.
Some people get the fairy tale, some the nightmare, happiness is a decision and a commitment and it requires hard work and lots of self awareness and honesty.
The first rule of lifsaving is "Don't drown", the first pulse you check at an accident scene is your own and I've spent a year trying to solve the problem of my DAWs addiction. Now that I stepped back and started doing a full status check on myself I realize that I have to focus on myself and establish the sort of healthy habits and boundaries and associations that will give me the knowledge and tools I need to cope next time. Last Saturday I was in total shock and handled it poorly. Next time who knows? My goal is to handle it with a shrug and do what I can and/or need to do to keep it from taking a week or a month or a decade out of my life.
Thanks for rooting for us. Who knows if that matters but it matters to me.
I know she is sober now and I love her and I see her sitting there rubbing her stomach with a contented and serene smile and I just melt. I was letting her disease keep me from enjoying the wonderfulness of things like that. No more. I am going to enjoy that. When the alcoholism rears it's nasty little head I'll take her hand and do what I can to stomp that little effer back into it's hole but he doesn't get to take away the indescribable joys of awaiting the arrival of my son with the woman I love.
Originally Posted by Hopeworks
Cool.
I will share what worked for us when it worked... there were times that were awesome... incredible... amazing... connections. He COULD of been my soulmate... he*%... he was my soul mate. Simply no one made me feel like he did...ever.... when he was right... when he was himself I was simply crazy about him.
There were those times were when he was in total recovery... spiritual recovery. We attended great Big Book meetings, speaker meetings, and he went to his own AA meetings alone as well as I went to alanon meetings alone. We had quiet times together every morning where we prayed together and talked about life and important things...deep things. I loved it and so did he. We were in love with our HP and eachother. It was incredible for long periods of time but it always ended...he always ended up picking up a drink and turning into some stranger...some evil man...so alien...so selfish...so mean. Ugh.
And that is what is so sad. He would lose focus on his recovery. He was ADD and possibly bipolar or had bipolar tendancies. He would neglect his recovery program... I would see the relapse coming... no secrets here. It is always obvious. The A wants to drink and sets the stage to drink.
I learned how to not nag or control (I had done that for years) I learned how to stay in my own hula hoop. I offered to go to AA meetings with him. Reminded him that his recovery was his and that I was praying for him but my boundary was NO... repeat... NO alcohol.
There was nothing I could do or say to change the course...he would drink. It was inevitable. And he... the love of my life would be gone... poof. And in his place was some alien being...an evil... hateful... selfish... creepy person.
Tragic. Sad. Horrible. But I can't go down with him and so like it was in the scene on the Titanic when she let him go to sink in the darkness of the sea I had to let him go to fight the battle alone. It is his to fight as it will be hers to fight. Alone. You can only support and pray for her and deal with your own recovery.
More will be revealed. Time tells all. And so it goes. My love of my life... the one who I will always love didn't make it. Even if he were to suddenly pull it all together I would never take another chance on him. ever. it's over forever.
But you still have the magic. The sparkle. The endorphins, the oxytocin, the adrenalin. That sizzling connection when your eyes meet. And you have some gray matter and a beautiful baby on the way!!!! Wow! This can work if you work it.... it CAN be a happy ending. If you respect your opponent... the disease and take recovery seriously.
Those who thoroughly follow the path and work the steps on a DAILY basis have never been known to fail. It is those who wander off the path...listen to the acoholic voice that relapse. Working a joint program together every single day will insure success!!!!
He just didn't do it... but that is his problem. What are you going to do? What is your wife going to do? If his story... my story... in some way helped your wife, your child and yourself overcome addiction... well... it would help me make some sense of my own journey and I hope you will remember to come back and share with us how your family works out. I am praying for you all that you will... in fact... beat the odds.
Miracles do happen... they are just rare.
I didn't get my miracle. But it would be an awesome thing if you got yours! And I am praying that you do....
I will share what worked for us when it worked... there were times that were awesome... incredible... amazing... connections. He COULD of been my soulmate... he*%... he was my soul mate. Simply no one made me feel like he did...ever.... when he was right... when he was himself I was simply crazy about him.
There were those times were when he was in total recovery... spiritual recovery. We attended great Big Book meetings, speaker meetings, and he went to his own AA meetings alone as well as I went to alanon meetings alone. We had quiet times together every morning where we prayed together and talked about life and important things...deep things. I loved it and so did he. We were in love with our HP and eachother. It was incredible for long periods of time but it always ended...he always ended up picking up a drink and turning into some stranger...some evil man...so alien...so selfish...so mean. Ugh.
And that is what is so sad. He would lose focus on his recovery. He was ADD and possibly bipolar or had bipolar tendancies. He would neglect his recovery program... I would see the relapse coming... no secrets here. It is always obvious. The A wants to drink and sets the stage to drink.
I learned how to not nag or control (I had done that for years) I learned how to stay in my own hula hoop. I offered to go to AA meetings with him. Reminded him that his recovery was his and that I was praying for him but my boundary was NO... repeat... NO alcohol.
There was nothing I could do or say to change the course...he would drink. It was inevitable. And he... the love of my life would be gone... poof. And in his place was some alien being...an evil... hateful... selfish... creepy person.
Tragic. Sad. Horrible. But I can't go down with him and so like it was in the scene on the Titanic when she let him go to sink in the darkness of the sea I had to let him go to fight the battle alone. It is his to fight as it will be hers to fight. Alone. You can only support and pray for her and deal with your own recovery.
More will be revealed. Time tells all. And so it goes. My love of my life... the one who I will always love didn't make it. Even if he were to suddenly pull it all together I would never take another chance on him. ever. it's over forever.
But you still have the magic. The sparkle. The endorphins, the oxytocin, the adrenalin. That sizzling connection when your eyes meet. And you have some gray matter and a beautiful baby on the way!!!! Wow! This can work if you work it.... it CAN be a happy ending. If you respect your opponent... the disease and take recovery seriously.
Those who thoroughly follow the path and work the steps on a DAILY basis have never been known to fail. It is those who wander off the path...listen to the acoholic voice that relapse. Working a joint program together every single day will insure success!!!!
He just didn't do it... but that is his problem. What are you going to do? What is your wife going to do? If his story... my story... in some way helped your wife, your child and yourself overcome addiction... well... it would help me make some sense of my own journey and I hope you will remember to come back and share with us how your family works out. I am praying for you all that you will... in fact... beat the odds.
Miracles do happen... they are just rare.
I didn't get my miracle. But it would be an awesome thing if you got yours! And I am praying that you do....
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by aboutdone
My boundary for my RAH who has been sober for 3 years, is a very simple one, but has a very deep meaning.
If you relapse, I'm done.
I know for you that doesn't seem to be the direction you are going with setting a boundary, and I understand that. My deep thoughts that go into the meaning is this:
If you drink, your liver will die
If you drink, you may have a wreck with children in the car, and kill everyone
If you drink, I may lose the best man in my life to a horrible death
If you drink, every word you say is a lie
If you drink, our daughter becomes as dysfunctional as you
If you drink, life just sucks
If you drink, you may accidentally set the house on fire
If you drink, you may being emotionally detached from our daughter
If you drink, you may unintentionally verbally hurt someone
If you drink, you will most likely lose your job
If you drink, lose your job, we lose our home
I think when I look at all of the things that could happen if he drinks again, then I can start writing down each boundary for each thing. From there I can come up with the boundary in the simplest terms for ME, as it applies to his drinking and My reaction.
Simplest terms for me then become, if you drink, I'm done.
I am sure some As do stuff intentionally, but many just become careless, and hurt others unintentionally, but just the same, it still causes harm to others. Sometimes it seems harsh to set a hard firm boundary, but after you have lived in hell with the A, or seen the devastation, you know the insane possibilities that happen when the A is actively drinking.
It seems your wife has remorse over her relapse. It really does seem that she is sincere about not drinking while she is pregnant. I would almost bet she doesn't have another relapse while she is pregnant. I really would. But the fact is, if she truly is an alcoholic, she may have a weak moment, and the disease will do what it is forever kicking and screaming to do. Have a drink. That is the only reason I seem so hardcore with my boundaries.
Now on the flip side of that, my RAH has some boundaries for me too. LOL. So it might seem less tedious if she is allowed to set some of her own boundaries??? I have a tendency to go from normal to super B in about 10 seconds so I am not allowed to do that to him. Seems relatively fair, considering I can be straight up mean sometimes. You know?
If you relapse, I'm done.
I know for you that doesn't seem to be the direction you are going with setting a boundary, and I understand that. My deep thoughts that go into the meaning is this:
If you drink, your liver will die
If you drink, you may have a wreck with children in the car, and kill everyone
If you drink, I may lose the best man in my life to a horrible death
If you drink, every word you say is a lie
If you drink, our daughter becomes as dysfunctional as you
If you drink, life just sucks
If you drink, you may accidentally set the house on fire
If you drink, you may being emotionally detached from our daughter
If you drink, you may unintentionally verbally hurt someone
If you drink, you will most likely lose your job
If you drink, lose your job, we lose our home
I think when I look at all of the things that could happen if he drinks again, then I can start writing down each boundary for each thing. From there I can come up with the boundary in the simplest terms for ME, as it applies to his drinking and My reaction.
Simplest terms for me then become, if you drink, I'm done.
I am sure some As do stuff intentionally, but many just become careless, and hurt others unintentionally, but just the same, it still causes harm to others. Sometimes it seems harsh to set a hard firm boundary, but after you have lived in hell with the A, or seen the devastation, you know the insane possibilities that happen when the A is actively drinking.
It seems your wife has remorse over her relapse. It really does seem that she is sincere about not drinking while she is pregnant. I would almost bet she doesn't have another relapse while she is pregnant. I really would. But the fact is, if she truly is an alcoholic, she may have a weak moment, and the disease will do what it is forever kicking and screaming to do. Have a drink. That is the only reason I seem so hardcore with my boundaries.
Now on the flip side of that, my RAH has some boundaries for me too. LOL. So it might seem less tedious if she is allowed to set some of her own boundaries??? I have a tendency to go from normal to super B in about 10 seconds so I am not allowed to do that to him. Seems relatively fair, considering I can be straight up mean sometimes. You know?
My boundaries are a bit elastic right now. As my knowledge and understanding and personal development progresses and we add more chapters to our story those boundaries will expand, contract, harden and soften based on where I am at that point in time. Right now I don't really understand myself well enough to know what boundaries I need so I'm starting out with the two that are no brainers to me:
Alcohol and pregnancy = go to the doctor RTFN
I can't function when she is drunk and if she is drunk I need to function at a high level. Kids needs come first, have to maintain my career, clothes don't wash themselves and I know that if she is her and drunk I will be checking on her, obsessing over it and ignoring my responsibilities.... so the boundary is that I won't take care of an addict while they are using.
The boundary in a year? LOL, today is saturday. I know the boundary today and pretty sure of the one for Sunday... a year is a long time away.
I can't set a harder one right now because I don't mean it. I'm far far from the "if you relapse, we are done" boundary but I haven't had your years of dealing with it.
My prayer is that I never reach that boundary.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
PohsFriend, boundaries are what you set up to protect yourself. You don't even have to tell the alcoholic. For example one of mine is I won't ride in a cer where the driver has been drinking. I don't need to tell anyone or make a big deal of it.
IMO your situation is different. It has to do with how you protect your child in this situation. I don't have any experience in this but perhaps there is someone who both you and wife trust that you could sit down with and talk rationally about how the both of you want to handle this. I wish you and your wife the best of luck wth this.
Your friend,
IMO your situation is different. It has to do with how you protect your child in this situation. I don't have any experience in this but perhaps there is someone who both you and wife trust that you could sit down with and talk rationally about how the both of you want to handle this. I wish you and your wife the best of luck wth this.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
PohsFriend, boundaries are what you set up to protect yourself. You don't even have to tell the alcoholic. For example one of mine is I won't ride in a cer where the driver has been drinking. I don't need to tell anyone or make a big deal of it.
The one boundary I've aired with my RAH is that if he relapses we are done and I will do what I can to protect the children from his instability. That's not an ultimatum, it's just a representation of the stakes, and one that's pretty reasonable. Because he is (finally) exercising a program and is aware of his own limitations and challenges, he agrees with me that this is what needs to be done. But I don't need to reiterate this with him and it's not up for discussion.
The way you talk about your wife, it's obvious you're crazy about her. While that's great under normal circumstances, it also makes me cringe a little. I'm not saying this is the case, but consider whether you're elevating her to the point where you're blinded by fantasy romance, and consider whether this constant stream of praise is its own pressure on her.
Also consider why your ex and your current wife both have issues with instability, and why you chose them regardless. My husband is a RA, and my ex is also a basket case narcissist. The common denominator here is me.
You say (if I recall correctly) you were raised not by alcoholics, but by mentally ill parents. I was too -- the goal posts were always shifting and I learned how to live with a lack of boundaries and stuff down my own feelings. Folks like us tend to develop serious abandonment issues and a need for permission or consensus before we act in our relationships. We also equate feelings with actions, i.e. require a lot of control in our relationships. We also, when we find romantic partners, elevate them with god-like, smothering support, admiration, and excuse-making. We are the ultimate enablers.
I was crazy about my husband when we first got together. He was the coolest, funniest, brashest, and hottest guy I'd ever had the chance to meet. In addition we also "weren't supposed to fall in love," so there was that extra element of clandestine, Romeo and Juliet romance that blinded me to the reality, that my husband was increasingly unstable, falling into an emotional abyss, and self-medicating by drinking. I saw him through three rehabs over the course of a year, during which time I got pregnant and gave birth to a baby practically by myself while he went through the misery of trying to get and stay sober, and eventually went through rehab again (before our daughter was two months old). He's nearly one year sober today, and for this I am grateful, but now that he's sober, 1) all those romantic feelings are basically gone, 2) I realize that what I was attracted to in the beginning, apart from the physical, was his mental illness (particularly the mania), 3) all the childhood issues that I thought I was over were actually in full effect, driving all of my decision making and reactions to his antics, before and after I realized that alcoholism was a problem.
These are my experiences. Take what you need and leave the rest.
Have you picked out baby names yet? This was one of my favorite parts of anticipating the baby.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Florence...
Couple things - had one parent who had major issues and one who was a rock so I'm only half crazy :-)
Without question, I have had some issues with the 'I could not save mom but look, I can save HER". I'm certainly a little bit broken.
Fantasy Romance/Ideal love? No, I do know that I adore my wife but once we moved from the fantasyland of dating and reality, shared(?) responsibility and real life set in there has been plenty of reality to temper the passion. OK, lol, without going into TMI the passion/romance/attraction factor is kinda like... wow. While that is not sufficient to overcome the other things we have to work together on it sure doesn't hurt. We certainly did go through the whole process of recognizing that Prince/Princess charming has a few warts after all.
But... yup, I have some issues of my own to resolve and it's a doublke edged sword. A desire to solve problems and self sufficiency has made me successful in my career but too much of a good thing... ain't.
I'm not sure where the line is between being supportive and building my wife up too much but I guess I'd rather err on the side of being positive than tearing her down.
My sense of relief right now is not due to figuring it all out, I'm feeling better because I am now doing what I need to in order to figure it out and I think I have the right attitude about it - i.e. Looking at the facts and myself there is no question in my mind that I have some issues of my own to overcome but I'm past the biggest obstacle anyone has to doing that... recognition and willingness.
I also have a good idea of what it is that I want out of life and see several obstacles to it. Some I can control, some I can influence and others I just have to be aware of because I can't do jack about them.
So I'm sorting it out. I am not dismissing or minimizing the challenges ahead but for my own sanity I can't go through life expecting that our story will unfold as so many have that I read about here. I have to be aware of those and aware that unless we take a different path, we won't have a different result. So when I get worried or concerned I stop for a second and remember a few things: I am happily, passionately and goofily in love with my wife. We laugh, we cuddle, when it's just the two of us we have a deep and wonderful intimacy and love for one another. That's something worth fighting and working to keep.
I also remember that we are pretty self aware and getting more so. We aren't oblivious to the challenges or arrogantly assuming that those just apply to other people, not us.
But it boils down to a simple thing: A sane person can't live their life expecting it to be a living hell for the next twenty years. We cannot have a good future together if we simply accept that we are doomed to misery. So I'm dealing with what I can, preparing and planning in case but I have to spend my time and energy in a positive direction and so does she.
...and hopefully we will figure out what the 10-20% of couples in our situation who make it and have good lives and healthy kids figured out. Sometimes I read here and it can be discouraging but there are couples out there who can say that 20 years ago they overcame our challenges and went on to happy lives. ...unfortunately they probably don't come here, those of us who are here are mostly in the fight and struggling to some degree.
Rambling again... hope that makes sense. Short version is that I can't do this unless I keep myself positive and don't allow fear to turn to despair. I am 100% sure to fail if I wake up every day expecting that outcome.
Couple things - had one parent who had major issues and one who was a rock so I'm only half crazy :-)
Without question, I have had some issues with the 'I could not save mom but look, I can save HER". I'm certainly a little bit broken.
Fantasy Romance/Ideal love? No, I do know that I adore my wife but once we moved from the fantasyland of dating and reality, shared(?) responsibility and real life set in there has been plenty of reality to temper the passion. OK, lol, without going into TMI the passion/romance/attraction factor is kinda like... wow. While that is not sufficient to overcome the other things we have to work together on it sure doesn't hurt. We certainly did go through the whole process of recognizing that Prince/Princess charming has a few warts after all.
But... yup, I have some issues of my own to resolve and it's a doublke edged sword. A desire to solve problems and self sufficiency has made me successful in my career but too much of a good thing... ain't.
I'm not sure where the line is between being supportive and building my wife up too much but I guess I'd rather err on the side of being positive than tearing her down.
My sense of relief right now is not due to figuring it all out, I'm feeling better because I am now doing what I need to in order to figure it out and I think I have the right attitude about it - i.e. Looking at the facts and myself there is no question in my mind that I have some issues of my own to overcome but I'm past the biggest obstacle anyone has to doing that... recognition and willingness.
I also have a good idea of what it is that I want out of life and see several obstacles to it. Some I can control, some I can influence and others I just have to be aware of because I can't do jack about them.
So I'm sorting it out. I am not dismissing or minimizing the challenges ahead but for my own sanity I can't go through life expecting that our story will unfold as so many have that I read about here. I have to be aware of those and aware that unless we take a different path, we won't have a different result. So when I get worried or concerned I stop for a second and remember a few things: I am happily, passionately and goofily in love with my wife. We laugh, we cuddle, when it's just the two of us we have a deep and wonderful intimacy and love for one another. That's something worth fighting and working to keep.
I also remember that we are pretty self aware and getting more so. We aren't oblivious to the challenges or arrogantly assuming that those just apply to other people, not us.
But it boils down to a simple thing: A sane person can't live their life expecting it to be a living hell for the next twenty years. We cannot have a good future together if we simply accept that we are doomed to misery. So I'm dealing with what I can, preparing and planning in case but I have to spend my time and energy in a positive direction and so does she.
...and hopefully we will figure out what the 10-20% of couples in our situation who make it and have good lives and healthy kids figured out. Sometimes I read here and it can be discouraging but there are couples out there who can say that 20 years ago they overcame our challenges and went on to happy lives. ...unfortunately they probably don't come here, those of us who are here are mostly in the fight and struggling to some degree.
Rambling again... hope that makes sense. Short version is that I can't do this unless I keep myself positive and don't allow fear to turn to despair. I am 100% sure to fail if I wake up every day expecting that outcome.
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