What to do/think/say? Help please
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
What he said was growing up in a home with an alcoholic parent can be hell on the child and have long term effects. Based on my experience I would have to agree with that.
I would not wish that life on anybody.
I have no advice to offer in this situation as I have no experience with dealing with someone who may have a drinking problem and is pregnant. You have my sympathy in having to deal with such a situation. I wish for the best for you and your wife.
One little thing that helped me here when reading other peoples post was something I have heard in Alanon and read here.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I think you are being supported; just not coddled. That you won't find here.
And most of us practice honesty, some just say it better than others.
A lot of folks here have said prayers for you. I think that's a great show of support.
That said, when I first came here I was put off by a few folks' directness; they were correct and it really stung. Lo and behold, here I am, close to 2 years down this road and far more wise and understanding.
And most of us practice honesty, some just say it better than others.
A lot of folks here have said prayers for you. I think that's a great show of support.
That said, when I first came here I was put off by a few folks' directness; they were correct and it really stung. Lo and behold, here I am, close to 2 years down this road and far more wise and understanding.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Thanks - And you are right.
Direct is good, I need that. Having someone ignore what I said and then say that my kids would grow up to be like me, as if that was a death sentence was off putting and there is a possibility that I am a little stressed right now so I got a wee bit pissed.
Most have been great, even if direct. Not kidding myself is very important, ignoring those who didn't even read before spewing their misdirected rage is equally important.
Do appreciate the kind words and support from most. My biggest worry is enabling in a well meant but misguided attempt to help.
LOL, OK, and after the past few days it is probably somewhat plausible that I am a tad less inclined than I normally would be to ignore a sneer
Direct is good, I need that. Having someone ignore what I said and then say that my kids would grow up to be like me, as if that was a death sentence was off putting and there is a possibility that I am a little stressed right now so I got a wee bit pissed.
Most have been great, even if direct. Not kidding myself is very important, ignoring those who didn't even read before spewing their misdirected rage is equally important.
Do appreciate the kind words and support from most. My biggest worry is enabling in a well meant but misguided attempt to help.
LOL, OK, and after the past few days it is probably somewhat plausible that I am a tad less inclined than I normally would be to ignore a sneer
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
My point in saying that was, how would you feel if you watched one of your kids get into this situation? What would you tell them? Do you want them to grow up thinking this type of lifestyle is healthy? Yes, I am very direct. It can be off-putting, but I am intensely protective of children in alcoholic homes, because I know what it does to them. You should be getting angry-- it means you're thinking. I don't take any offense to your venting, but we do try to stick to attacking arguments, not people. No worries.
ETA: I was top of my class in school, too. I did great. A desperate need for attention and affirmation from an absentee addict parent is a great motivator for being the best at everything. It was never enough and I crashed and burned. I threw so much away, so it doesn't mean you'll always stay on top just because you were there before. It sucks. :-\
ETA: I was top of my class in school, too. I did great. A desperate need for attention and affirmation from an absentee addict parent is a great motivator for being the best at everything. It was never enough and I crashed and burned. I threw so much away, so it doesn't mean you'll always stay on top just because you were there before. It sucks. :-\
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: california
Posts: 103
i hear ya! I bet your nerves are raw.
This directness of this site can make one wince at times. I am in the midst of a trainwreck myself and sometimes the insight I get is from the other side of the wreck. Sometimes helpful and sometimes not, but always with good intentions.
Sometimes it is nice to hear from someone who is as lost in all this....and dealing with current scary health issues of our partners etc. Sometimes it just seems like so much to deal with AND be productive in our own mental health.
It is hard to take everything in account.....Alcoholic, not enabling, own codependency issues, children, work, bills...and again being clear about it all...making the right decisions while things are crumbling.
I know how frightening pregnancy can be and I had no health issues. Not knowing what the future would bring.... it is a huge moment in a one's life. I bet your nerves are raw. Sending good thoughts your way.
This directness of this site can make one wince at times. I am in the midst of a trainwreck myself and sometimes the insight I get is from the other side of the wreck. Sometimes helpful and sometimes not, but always with good intentions.
Sometimes it is nice to hear from someone who is as lost in all this....and dealing with current scary health issues of our partners etc. Sometimes it just seems like so much to deal with AND be productive in our own mental health.
It is hard to take everything in account.....Alcoholic, not enabling, own codependency issues, children, work, bills...and again being clear about it all...making the right decisions while things are crumbling.
I know how frightening pregnancy can be and I had no health issues. Not knowing what the future would bring.... it is a huge moment in a one's life. I bet your nerves are raw. Sending good thoughts your way.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by NWGRITS 
My point in saying that was, how would you feel if you watched one of your kids get into this situation? What would you tell them? Do you want them to grow up thinking this type of lifestyle is healthy? Yes, I am very direct. It can be off-putting, but I am intensely protective of children in alcoholic homes, because I know what it does to them. You should be getting angry-- it means you're thinking. I don't take any offense to your venting, but we do try to stick to attacking arguments, not people. No worries.
ETA: I was top of my class in school, too. I did great. A desperate need for attention and affirmation from an absentee addict parent is a great motivator for being the best at everything. It was never enough and I crashed and burned. I threw so much away, so it doesn't mean you'll always stay on top just because you were there before. It sucks. :-\
ETA: I was top of my class in school, too. I did great. A desperate need for attention and affirmation from an absentee addict parent is a great motivator for being the best at everything. It was never enough and I crashed and burned. I threw so much away, so it doesn't mean you'll always stay on top just because you were there before. It sucks. :-\
I'm sorry I lost it, suggesting that I'm guilty of child abuse and that my kids would wind up just like me as if I am some sort of pariah set me off. My 17 year old daughter and I are the best of friends, she is a good kid and it is not because I am strict but because she can and does tell me everything. She's never been around an alcoholic (active) and won't be.
I'm frustrated. I love this woman and I hate her disease. It has a huge impact on me and I resent that. I am trying to seperate that from resenting her. When people say that she can never change and I should call CPS and run from her.... Well, it is not that simple.
She is pregnant, she did enter AA and did work it hard for 8 months. She did have one slip up and I went nuts over it. The second we got back from vacation she met with her sponsor and then went to a meeting and had to walk up and get a 24 chip with that big belly and know everyone in the room was looking at her knowing that she risked that baby. Along with AA she is doing individual therapy and she is doing couples counseling with me and if that were not the case I would be asking different questions.
Given the circumstances I am willing to work through this and again, I raised one child whose mother developed mental issues after post partum depression and was more or less useless for much of the past 17 years. She was never a substance abuser. During those 17 years there were three custody battles, one arrest for her for trying to go through me to get to my daughter, six figure legal bills and it sucked for my daughter who came thru it quite sane and very wise.
That experience taught me two things: If a child can have a loving, stable two-parent home then that is best. If one parent is incapable of that the a child is better off with one stable parent and seeing the other only when they are stable. I would not leave a baby with someone who was drunk.
So... I am a pretty organized person and a planner. In the rest of my life I'm a fairly senior exec and manage a lot of people and a large P&L and am used to being able to manage crises on a daily basis. I was completely unprepared for dealing with an active alcoholic but I am trying to learn. I start al-anon tonight.
I don't believe (yet) that an alcoholic can't recover or won't recover. If she is going to AA meetings every day, seeing a counselor every week, actively working toward staying on the path she has been on since last December.... then I am willing to support her and work with her unless/until she proves that she can't do it. If that happens I know I will have to find a different path and I hate that but understand it. Meanwhile, I know people from her group who have been active in AA for ten, twenty years and succeeded in turning their life around. She's hanging around THOSE people and wants to stay well.
So... I'm overly sensitive to the simplistic "If you care about your kids you need to kick her to the curb and move on" suggestion. We may get there but we are not there. We do have a tough sitch and I brought it on myself and accept responsibility for that. For now, I am fighting against her disease, not her. She does deserve the chance to beat it and has overcome some things in her past that suggest to me that she is a fighter and can do this.
I am here trying to learn how to help without enabling, protect myself and my kids and her without being overly harsh and to give my son, my wife and myself the best chance at surviving this and going on to a better future together. While I get that this is a longshot, there is a shot and I am taking it. I just don't know how to maximize the chance for success, what to insist on, what practical 'rules' and boundaries to set and how to go forward.
...and I have this problem with rambling... where are my ADD meds?
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Originally Posted by PohsFriend
If my daughter fell in love with an alcoholic tomorrow then he would disappear by the weekend.
I'm sorry I lost it, suggesting that I'm guilty of child abuse and that my kids would wind up just like me as if I am some sort of pariah set me off. My 17 year old daughter and I are the best of friends, she is a good kid and it is not because I am strict but because she can and does tell me everything. She's never been around an alcoholic (active) and won't be.
I'm frustrated. I love this woman and I hate her disease. It has a huge impact on me and I resent that. I am trying to seperate that from resenting her. When people say that she can never change and I should call CPS and run from her.... Well, it is not that simple.
She is pregnant, she did enter AA and did work it hard for 8 months. She did have one slip up and I went nuts over it. The second we got back from vacation she met with her sponsor and then went to a meeting and had to walk up and get a 24 chip with that big belly and know everyone in the room was looking at her knowing that she risked that baby. Along with AA she is doing individual therapy and she is doing couples counseling with me and if that were not the case I would be asking different questions.
Given the circumstances I am willing to work through this and again, I raised one child whose mother developed mental issues after post partum depression and was more or less useless for much of the past 17 years. She was never a substance abuser. During those 17 years there were three custody battles, one arrest for her for trying to go through me to get to my daughter, six figure legal bills and it sucked for my daughter who came thru it quite sane and very wise.
That experience taught me two things: If a child can have a loving, stable two-parent home then that is best. If one parent is incapable of that the a child is better off with one stable parent and seeing the other only when they are stable. I would not leave a baby with someone who was drunk.
So... I am a pretty organized person and a planner. In the rest of my life I'm a fairly senior exec and manage a lot of people and a large P&L and am used to being able to manage crises on a daily basis. I was completely unprepared for dealing with an active alcoholic but I am trying to learn. I start al-anon tonight.
I don't believe (yet) that an alcoholic can't recover or won't recover. If she is going to AA meetings every day, seeing a counselor every week, actively working toward staying on the path she has been on since last December.... then I am willing to support her and work with her unless/until she proves that she can't do it. If that happens I know I will have to find a different path and I hate that but understand it. Meanwhile, I know people from her group who have been active in AA for ten, twenty years and succeeded in turning their life around. She's hanging around THOSE people and wants to stay well.
So... I'm overly sensitive to the simplistic "If you care about your kids you need to kick her to the curb and move on" suggestion. We may get there but we are not there. We do have a tough sitch and I brought it on myself and accept responsibility for that. For now, I am fighting against her disease, not her. She does deserve the chance to beat it and has overcome some things in her past that suggest to me that she is a fighter and can do this.
I am here trying to learn how to help without enabling, protect myself and my kids and her without being overly harsh and to give my son, my wife and myself the best chance at surviving this and going on to a better future together. While I get that this is a longshot, there is a shot and I am taking it. I just don't know how to maximize the chance for success, what to insist on, what practical 'rules' and boundaries to set and how to go forward.
...and I have this problem with rambling... where are my ADD meds?
I'm sorry I lost it, suggesting that I'm guilty of child abuse and that my kids would wind up just like me as if I am some sort of pariah set me off. My 17 year old daughter and I are the best of friends, she is a good kid and it is not because I am strict but because she can and does tell me everything. She's never been around an alcoholic (active) and won't be.
I'm frustrated. I love this woman and I hate her disease. It has a huge impact on me and I resent that. I am trying to seperate that from resenting her. When people say that she can never change and I should call CPS and run from her.... Well, it is not that simple.
She is pregnant, she did enter AA and did work it hard for 8 months. She did have one slip up and I went nuts over it. The second we got back from vacation she met with her sponsor and then went to a meeting and had to walk up and get a 24 chip with that big belly and know everyone in the room was looking at her knowing that she risked that baby. Along with AA she is doing individual therapy and she is doing couples counseling with me and if that were not the case I would be asking different questions.
Given the circumstances I am willing to work through this and again, I raised one child whose mother developed mental issues after post partum depression and was more or less useless for much of the past 17 years. She was never a substance abuser. During those 17 years there were three custody battles, one arrest for her for trying to go through me to get to my daughter, six figure legal bills and it sucked for my daughter who came thru it quite sane and very wise.
That experience taught me two things: If a child can have a loving, stable two-parent home then that is best. If one parent is incapable of that the a child is better off with one stable parent and seeing the other only when they are stable. I would not leave a baby with someone who was drunk.
So... I am a pretty organized person and a planner. In the rest of my life I'm a fairly senior exec and manage a lot of people and a large P&L and am used to being able to manage crises on a daily basis. I was completely unprepared for dealing with an active alcoholic but I am trying to learn. I start al-anon tonight.
I don't believe (yet) that an alcoholic can't recover or won't recover. If she is going to AA meetings every day, seeing a counselor every week, actively working toward staying on the path she has been on since last December.... then I am willing to support her and work with her unless/until she proves that she can't do it. If that happens I know I will have to find a different path and I hate that but understand it. Meanwhile, I know people from her group who have been active in AA for ten, twenty years and succeeded in turning their life around. She's hanging around THOSE people and wants to stay well.
So... I'm overly sensitive to the simplistic "If you care about your kids you need to kick her to the curb and move on" suggestion. We may get there but we are not there. We do have a tough sitch and I brought it on myself and accept responsibility for that. For now, I am fighting against her disease, not her. She does deserve the chance to beat it and has overcome some things in her past that suggest to me that she is a fighter and can do this.
I am here trying to learn how to help without enabling, protect myself and my kids and her without being overly harsh and to give my son, my wife and myself the best chance at surviving this and going on to a better future together. While I get that this is a longshot, there is a shot and I am taking it. I just don't know how to maximize the chance for success, what to insist on, what practical 'rules' and boundaries to set and how to go forward.
...and I have this problem with rambling... where are my ADD meds?
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
PohsFriend, feel free to vent, ramble, post or yell. Whatever helps you get better. While you may not agree or like us all, or at least our responses 
, we are here to help and support each other as best we can.
Please keep reading and posting as there is a ton of strength and wisdom on this site.
Good luck with your Alanon meet tonight as well. I found it to be a huge help in regaining my sanity and my center.
Your friend,
, we are here to help and support each other as best we can.Please keep reading and posting as there is a ton of strength and wisdom on this site.
Good luck with your Alanon meet tonight as well. I found it to be a huge help in regaining my sanity and my center.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by PohsFriend
If my daughter fell in love with an alcoholic tomorrow then he would disappear by the weekend.
I start al-anon tonight.
I don't believe (yet) that an alcoholic can't recover or won't recover.
...and I have this problem with rambling... where are my ADD meds?
I start al-anon tonight.
I don't believe (yet) that an alcoholic can't recover or won't recover.
...and I have this problem with rambling... where are my ADD meds?
Good on starting Al-Anon. Try at least 5 meetings, and different groups, as no one is the same. It took longer for the program to stick with me...I thought those people were nuts with all that hugging and stuff...yuck...and then one day it just clicked for me.
Alcoholics can find recovery and be very successful at it. But the odds are low. That's all anyone is trying to say. I hope for you and your family that your wife beats those odds. But it is a long and bumpy road.
And lastly, ramble away. If you are anything like me - just having a place to vent and ramble took care of at least 50% of my grief and anxiety.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I need to vent and need to stop venting at her. :-)
It is very frustrating because I want to make her sit down and work on this problem, she is saying things like if I push her then she will want to rebel and might pull away blah blah blah.
To me that is just manipulation and threats. I feel bad about it, I can't deal with your feelings so you just have to accept everything and don't complain about having to deal with the consequences of my actions. ...and if you do try to express it then you are not supportive like my AA friends who just give me hugs and lollipops so I can't count on you or confide in you.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Makes me crazy.
.....and in my rant lies the answer. Must find a way to make her responsible for the fallout and consequences of her actions. Not as punishment but just out of fairness so that I don't build up resentment and pull away myself.
This does suck.
It is very frustrating because I want to make her sit down and work on this problem, she is saying things like if I push her then she will want to rebel and might pull away blah blah blah.
To me that is just manipulation and threats. I feel bad about it, I can't deal with your feelings so you just have to accept everything and don't complain about having to deal with the consequences of my actions. ...and if you do try to express it then you are not supportive like my AA friends who just give me hugs and lollipops so I can't count on you or confide in you.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Makes me crazy.
.....and in my rant lies the answer. Must find a way to make her responsible for the fallout and consequences of her actions. Not as punishment but just out of fairness so that I don't build up resentment and pull away myself.
This does suck.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 237
The one thing I have learned, painfully, is the more you try to make someone be a certain way, do whatever you need or want (however right it is and understandable), the more they seem to go the other way. I can't begin to understand how difficult your situation is but what others say here about trying to detach is crucial. Those at my group sessions who were doing well (and whose partners were seeming to sort themselves out) were making real efforts to detach and it seemed in many cases to work.
I realise however you have a very complicated situation so hope you find Al Anon useful as they can give you practical steps as to how to detach and you can find a solution that works for you or helps you to make a decision about what to do.
I realise however you have a very complicated situation so hope you find Al Anon useful as they can give you practical steps as to how to detach and you can find a solution that works for you or helps you to make a decision about what to do.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
You are working your way through Step 1 of the Alanon program. Good job!
What worked for me was to stop covering for my AW, to stop protecting her and to stop lying for her. I simply had to get to the point where I admitted I had no control over her actions and let her take the consequences. They weren't really mine in the first place. No matter how bad they were I didn't intervene. If there was major fallout between her and our children it was her problem. If she wasn't allowed to see the grandchildren it was her problem. No more going to our daughter's and saying stuff like aren't you being tough on your mother. Once I let go of trying to fix her problems I felt a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders.
Keep up the good work.
Your friend,
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
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This is where the emotional toddler aspect comes into play. She's going to act like one for a good while if she is indeed in recovery. You need to think of her behavior like that, or you'll go crazy.
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Thanks, guys.
I guess I am mad because I feel like she doesn't appreciate the 100000 things I have done to help her and sticks on 'yeah but you gave up, kicked me out and dumped me at my brother's house with an ultimatum to sober up or we were done'.
Oddly, the hundreds of things I did leading to that moment led to worse behavior, dropping her there and letting the one person she would listen to deal with her led to 8 months without a drink.
Hmmmm.....
Maybe there is something in between but why am I asking the alcoholic what she wants me to do if she lapses? I need to understand what she does NOT want, make sure she knows that I would never, ever want her to be hurt or sad but that i do care enough to use any tool I can find to help her stay sober, fair, unfair, mean, nice....
I worry too damned much about being the good guy and not enough about being the smart guy
I guess I am mad because I feel like she doesn't appreciate the 100000 things I have done to help her and sticks on 'yeah but you gave up, kicked me out and dumped me at my brother's house with an ultimatum to sober up or we were done'.
Oddly, the hundreds of things I did leading to that moment led to worse behavior, dropping her there and letting the one person she would listen to deal with her led to 8 months without a drink.
Hmmmm.....
Maybe there is something in between but why am I asking the alcoholic what she wants me to do if she lapses? I need to understand what she does NOT want, make sure she knows that I would never, ever want her to be hurt or sad but that i do care enough to use any tool I can find to help her stay sober, fair, unfair, mean, nice....
I worry too damned much about being the good guy and not enough about being the smart guy
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
but that i do care enough to use any tool I can find to help her stay sober
I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.
There wasn't a damn thing and could do.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
so sorry this is happining to you. make sure you tell her OBGYN of this "one time incident" because if she got caught once, trust me, there have been many many times she hasnt. My children didnt know my AH drank, thats because they never saw him sober! Praying for you all
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Originally Posted by 05084
so sorry this is happining to you. make sure you tell her OBGYN of this "one time incident" because if she got caught once, trust me, there have been many many times she hasnt. My children didnt know my AH drank, thats because they never saw him sober! Praying for you all
I also apologized for accusing her of lying and saying I did not believe her or trust her. What a crappy thing to say to someone who has gotten it perfect 249/250 days.
Yes, I do need to be aware and observant but I also need to seperate what I know to be true from what I fear or worry about. If she lies and I catch her that is different but to the best of my knowledge she is telling me the truth so I have to deal in what I know and stop wallowing in what I fear.
...Once I started doing that I realized I was being pretty harsh on someone who is going through something very hard and doing her very best (and succeeding at it). Also, knowing I am proud of her efforts and accomplishments and understand the incident for what it was and don't condemn her for it has made her a lot happier and less stressed. It's got to be hell to wonder "How could I do that?" without getting self-righteous contempt from the one person you count on most for love and support.
Today is a new day, so far so good.
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