he wants space, then comes back....
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he wants space, then comes back....
So after getting a LOT of great advice yesterday (and having a deep and intense conversation (and good cry) with myself last night) I put my relationship with "A" on an imaginary platter and placed it up on an imaginary tray above my head for God to take it. I mean, I was totally 100% OK with this idea. I gave it all up, just like that. I said "take this because I can not handle it anymore" Then I got into bed and I started rereading "Codependency No More." An hour or so later I check my cell phone (which was set to silent) and saw that I had a missed call.... it was him (not God, but "A") 
It really would have been nice if God would have given me a quick call......
I sat for a moment because I didn't know what to do..... if I call him back I am not giving him space, but wait a second, he called me??? What if he NEEDED me????
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
So I called him back. We talked for a little while. It was difficult because he kept asking if I was getting overwhelmed and would leave him? He was frantic, sad, anxious.....
I did not freak, I did not cry. I did not whine, I did not coerce. I listened to him and then I shared MY plans.
#1 I will not sever our relationship because I think that it can work IF WE BOTH GET HELP and as of right now we do not have to end it. We will just let it sit there between us......idle. I told him that we could talk, but that we needed to be slow, that underneath it all (the relationship) we are friends and I will not abandon him. But I also emphasized that I will not abandon myself.
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent. His problem is his, my problem is mine and that if we both each get ourselves healthy, maybe we could be healthy together someday, but this will take time.
When we disconnected, he sounded relieved. And I was at peace.
I know, that in the past, the relief I felt would have been due to the fact that he called me. I will no longer let a phone call or a crumb please me or make my day. I have to make my own day. I cannot slip into old behaviors and by God I will fight to the death for this (changing my behavior) until it becomes a new habit and I do not have to fight for it anymore!
I am happy that he is in recovery and I hope and pray that he will be OK. But I I I I I I NEED to be OK with me!!!!!!
Thoughts anyone????? Thank you for letting me share my thoughts.
It really would have been nice if God would have given me a quick call...... I sat for a moment because I didn't know what to do..... if I call him back I am not giving him space, but wait a second, he called me??? What if he NEEDED me????
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
So I called him back. We talked for a little while. It was difficult because he kept asking if I was getting overwhelmed and would leave him? He was frantic, sad, anxious.....
I did not freak, I did not cry. I did not whine, I did not coerce. I listened to him and then I shared MY plans.
#1 I will not sever our relationship because I think that it can work IF WE BOTH GET HELP and as of right now we do not have to end it. We will just let it sit there between us......idle. I told him that we could talk, but that we needed to be slow, that underneath it all (the relationship) we are friends and I will not abandon him. But I also emphasized that I will not abandon myself.
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent. His problem is his, my problem is mine and that if we both each get ourselves healthy, maybe we could be healthy together someday, but this will take time.
When we disconnected, he sounded relieved. And I was at peace.
I know, that in the past, the relief I felt would have been due to the fact that he called me. I will no longer let a phone call or a crumb please me or make my day. I have to make my own day. I cannot slip into old behaviors and by God I will fight to the death for this (changing my behavior) until it becomes a new habit and I do not have to fight for it anymore!
I am happy that he is in recovery and I hope and pray that he will be OK. But I I I I I I NEED to be OK with me!!!!!!
Thoughts anyone????? Thank you for letting me share my thoughts.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 50
I thank you for sharing your thoughts, rlt. The tray above the head trick drew a very helpful word picture for me to use too!
Reading your thoughts helped me to realize that I often approach critical junctions in my relationship as "all or nothing." IOW, we're either together or we're not. My gut instinct is that not being together again is probably healthiest for me, if not both of us, but spending a lot of time on fortune telling ultimately amounts to trying to control the future. What is certain and what I do have control over is taking my life back. I have constantly abandoned myself in my relationship, usually with only a vague awareness it was happening. How bad is it when you feel like you've stumbled upon a dear old friend when you find a bit of yourself again?
Reading your thoughts helped me to realize that I often approach critical junctions in my relationship as "all or nothing." IOW, we're either together or we're not. My gut instinct is that not being together again is probably healthiest for me, if not both of us, but spending a lot of time on fortune telling ultimately amounts to trying to control the future. What is certain and what I do have control over is taking my life back. I have constantly abandoned myself in my relationship, usually with only a vague awareness it was happening. How bad is it when you feel like you've stumbled upon a dear old friend when you find a bit of yourself again?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by rdlesstraveled 
what to do..... if I call him back I am not giving him space, but wait a second, he called me??? What if he NEEDED me????
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
I am impressed by your NEED to rescue him because of a phone call. If this was a real emergency shouldn't he call professionals?
It's okay to let a phone call go unanswered. It's what happened before we had the latest technology. Before we had answering machines, if we missed a call ~ we missed a call. The caller could call back if it was important.
If he thinks he NEEDS you, it is okay to allow him the dignity to figure things out for himself.
What about your needs?
Wasn't your intent last night to focus on yourself? You went through the visualization exercise of giving him to God (I have used this same technique) and then you proceeded to take him back from God because he NEEDED YOU. I think God is better equipped for this job, don't you?
I have heard it explained that alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
Allowing him to focus on his recovery comes with him learning to take care of himself = physically, emotionally and spiritually.
Allowing yourself time to focus on your recovery comes with equal rights.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
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Pelican,
Thank you for yanking me back to reality. When I first saw "Wow" my ego was like, yeah, see I did the right thing...I am cured. lol but then I kept reading and I was like... oh.
Thank you so much!
Thank you for yanking me back to reality. When I first saw "Wow" my ego was like, yeah, see I did the right thing...I am cured. lol but then I kept reading and I was like... oh.
Thank you so much!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I did the same things!
These are some areas I really needed to focus on in my early recovery:
Stop reacting, start responding.
How? I give things time. If I feel like I am acting on impulse, I give myself a time out. Usually 3 days to sit on it and decide if I still feel as strongly. After three days, I usually have more information and can make a healthier decision than my first initial reaction. The slogan: Patience, more will be revealed ~ so very true!
Stop being a victim.
How? to realize that people aren't necessarily doing thing *to* me, but doing things for themselves. I wasn't even a consideration when they made their own choices, therefore, I can remove my feelings of being a victim of their choices. I needed to stop taking things personally.
You are making progress.
Keep on keepin on!
These are some areas I really needed to focus on in my early recovery:
Stop reacting, start responding.
How? I give things time. If I feel like I am acting on impulse, I give myself a time out. Usually 3 days to sit on it and decide if I still feel as strongly. After three days, I usually have more information and can make a healthier decision than my first initial reaction. The slogan: Patience, more will be revealed ~ so very true!
Stop being a victim.
How? to realize that people aren't necessarily doing thing *to* me, but doing things for themselves. I wasn't even a consideration when they made their own choices, therefore, I can remove my feelings of being a victim of their choices. I needed to stop taking things personally.
You are making progress.
Keep on keepin on!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by rdlesstraveled
I sat for a moment because I didn't know what to do..... if I call him back I am not giving him space, but wait a second, he called me??? What if he NEEDED me????
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
-----------------
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent.
-----------------
I am happy that he is in recovery and I hope and pray that he will be OK. But I I I I I I NEED to be OK with me!!!!!!
But then I stopped and took a deep breath. I would return his call (out of COURTESY and as a FRIEND) but I would just "be"
-----------------
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent.
-----------------
I am happy that he is in recovery and I hope and pray that he will be OK. But I I I I I I NEED to be OK with me!!!!!!
Recovery is a long process, give yourself some time to go through it in a way that helps you move forward in the healthiest possible way. You deserve that!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 166
I just read that last night in Codependency No More....... codependents "react" instead of "act". That really stuck out to me last night as it stands out to me again today.
Thank you.
I am NOT a victim, I was just raised by people that did the best they could. I am no longer a child. Reacting is no longer working. Time to act, time to work, time to do the hard stuff...... the real nitty gritty stuff. The funny thing is I am looking forward to it. I have searched for the "hows" all my life. I never realized that I was reacting, not doing a freakin' thing! No wonder I was treading water.
Thank you
Thank you.
I am NOT a victim, I was just raised by people that did the best they could. I am no longer a child. Reacting is no longer working. Time to act, time to work, time to do the hard stuff...... the real nitty gritty stuff. The funny thing is I am looking forward to it. I have searched for the "hows" all my life. I never realized that I was reacting, not doing a freakin' thing! No wonder I was treading water.
Thank you
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Join Date: May 2008
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hey Rd,
Speaking of reality..."I told him we could talk, but we needed to be slow" Didn't you post last night that you tried this the last time and things sped up very quickly with poor results?
"I cannot slip into old behaviours and by God I will fight to death for this." (changing my behaviour.) You already did slip. What do you have planned in order for you to change your old behaviour? What will you do differently on a go forward basis? Do you have professional help lined up to help you with this?
I have found with myself that it is difficult to 'change' something when all I know is that behaviour. That's where professional help came in. It's not just changing the behaviour, it's understanding where the 'need to be' comes from and why. It's a change in thinking, not purely a change in robotic reaction.
Speaking of reality..."I told him we could talk, but we needed to be slow" Didn't you post last night that you tried this the last time and things sped up very quickly with poor results?
"I cannot slip into old behaviours and by God I will fight to death for this." (changing my behaviour.) You already did slip. What do you have planned in order for you to change your old behaviour? What will you do differently on a go forward basis? Do you have professional help lined up to help you with this?
I have found with myself that it is difficult to 'change' something when all I know is that behaviour. That's where professional help came in. It's not just changing the behaviour, it's understanding where the 'need to be' comes from and why. It's a change in thinking, not purely a change in robotic reaction.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 166
gerryP,
I have been seeing the same therapist for a year and a half, (but I have seen many, many therapists throughout the years, since age 19 (I am 35)......) the problem I ALWAYS run into is that the therapists become my "friends" (One even told me that she loved seeing that I was on her schedule for the day)
I think that I come across as a strong person to them. After a few sessions I think that they think I have resolved my latest failed relationship, jealousy, abandonment issues, etc. I have been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, bipolar II and ADD and I have been medicated. None have been able to cut through to the rawness to see that all of these problems are masking the real one..... that I don't think highly of myself and look to relationships for that wholeness and aliveness. Maybe I need to look for a therapist that understands adult children of alcoholics.
I have been seeing the same therapist for a year and a half, (but I have seen many, many therapists throughout the years, since age 19 (I am 35)......) the problem I ALWAYS run into is that the therapists become my "friends" (One even told me that she loved seeing that I was on her schedule for the day)
I think that I come across as a strong person to them. After a few sessions I think that they think I have resolved my latest failed relationship, jealousy, abandonment issues, etc. I have been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, bipolar II and ADD and I have been medicated. None have been able to cut through to the rawness to see that all of these problems are masking the real one..... that I don't think highly of myself and look to relationships for that wholeness and aliveness. Maybe I need to look for a therapist that understands adult children of alcoholics.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Pelican covered my thoughts very well.
In early recovery I had to focus on my self. I had to be selfish about taking care of me. I had to put me above us. It was so hard yet so rewarding.
You are making good progress. As Pelican said, keep on keepin on.
Your friend,
In early recovery I had to focus on my self. I had to be selfish about taking care of me. I had to put me above us. It was so hard yet so rewarding.
You are making good progress. As Pelican said, keep on keepin on.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Here's a thought or two...
I think you are well on your way to finding the right road for you. You have an awareness that you haven't been living the life you want to live, and you are starting to find the new path upon which you want to tread.
It's not a race, it's a journey, and in my opinion you've pointed yourself in the right direction. Sure, there's much to learn about the new road and sure, you'll fall down now and again or get hit. The point is to get back up, as you appear to be able to do very well, and keep walking.
One thing-- while it's not a race, if you'd like to reach your destination of serenity and happiness more quickly and with the least amount of pain and scarring possible, I suggest both counseling and Alanon. Keep an open mind and try at least six Alanon meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you.
Take care,
Cyranoak
It's not a race, it's a journey, and in my opinion you've pointed yourself in the right direction. Sure, there's much to learn about the new road and sure, you'll fall down now and again or get hit. The point is to get back up, as you appear to be able to do very well, and keep walking.
One thing-- while it's not a race, if you'd like to reach your destination of serenity and happiness more quickly and with the least amount of pain and scarring possible, I suggest both counseling and Alanon. Keep an open mind and try at least six Alanon meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you.
Take care,
Cyranoak
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Originally Posted by rdlesstraveled
#1 I will not sever our relationship because I think that it can work IF WE BOTH GET HELP and as of right now we do not have to end it. We will just let it sit there between us......idle. I told him that we could talk, but that we needed to be slow, that underneath it all (the relationship) we are friends and I will not abandon him. But I also emphasized that I will not abandon myself.
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent. His problem is his, my problem is mine and that if we both each get ourselves healthy, maybe we could be healthy together someday, but this will take time.
#2 I told him that I will not be codependent. His problem is his, my problem is mine and that if we both each get ourselves healthy, maybe we could be healthy together someday, but this will take time.
I said a similar conversation with my ex over email. Told him I felt the relationship was unhealthy for me, he was doing whatever he wanted to no matter how I felt about it, and I felt like I was taking the abuse of his bad moods/behavior and that was co-dependent. I did offer friendship but I have not heard from him since. It has not been easy as I really love this person but he is so deeply in denial. I really feel the purpose of being in a relationship with someone is not to endure constant pain. I do not think I would get back together with mine no matter what he did but at least he understands how much it was hurting me.
Sounds like you handled things well and very maturely.
-z
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Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
The HARDEST part of my recovery was overcoming my addiction to my cell phone. The INSTANT access to my XAH either via phone/text/email use to fuel about 99% of the drama and spin in our relationship.
Hell, my XAH still loves using text messaging to try to stir the pot!! The difference now... I see the message and know that immediate responses are never going to end well for me!! Oddily enough - as anvilhead pointed out - all of my XAH's attempts at "urgency" have never really been urgent!! So I read a message... and give myself however long I need to process any emotional reactions that may have gotten kicked up... and then I respond, if a response is even really warranted. In most cases, it's not!
You asked for space... now take it.
Hell, my XAH still loves using text messaging to try to stir the pot!! The difference now... I see the message and know that immediate responses are never going to end well for me!! Oddily enough - as anvilhead pointed out - all of my XAH's attempts at "urgency" have never really been urgent!! So I read a message... and give myself however long I need to process any emotional reactions that may have gotten kicked up... and then I respond, if a response is even really warranted. In most cases, it's not!
You asked for space... now take it.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 76
This is such a great subject. Since starting with the work and al anon i have found / heard, that i am one of the few whos recovering ah want's the space. I know i should be greatful for that. But he has ripped my heart out and i think i just want him to want me.
I am still letting him controll me. He has not contacted me in any way shape or form since sunday. It's not a long time, but it feels like it to me. I do not even understand WHY i would WANT him to contact me. (?) Is that control, co dependency?
Al anon is a good place for me to go. It makes me feel good and hopeful.
Thanks for listening and bringing this up.
and just a little p.s. i got rid of my cell phone 2 years ago and now only have a landline. It costs me $36! It is LIBERATING to not have a cell phone!
I am still letting him controll me. He has not contacted me in any way shape or form since sunday. It's not a long time, but it feels like it to me. I do not even understand WHY i would WANT him to contact me. (?) Is that control, co dependency?
Al anon is a good place for me to go. It makes me feel good and hopeful.
Thanks for listening and bringing this up.
and just a little p.s. i got rid of my cell phone 2 years ago and now only have a landline. It costs me $36! It is LIBERATING to not have a cell phone!
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 148
I have a question!
Can we talk about the "healthiest" way this could be handled? I'd like to do some learning here...
So the call/text/email comes in...and yes, we identify that it is NOT an emergency...
...so what is the healthiest way to proceed that is "acting" but not "reacting?"
Can someone give me some examples of good ways to proceed?
I think any of us are faced with this scenario...
Can we talk about the "healthiest" way this could be handled? I'd like to do some learning here...
So the call/text/email comes in...and yes, we identify that it is NOT an emergency...
...so what is the healthiest way to proceed that is "acting" but not "reacting?"
Can someone give me some examples of good ways to proceed?
I think any of us are faced with this scenario...
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
What a great piece of advice.
You asked for space ... Now take it.
That was something that was very hard for me to do in the beginning.
I love good quotes and slogans so I might as well go with a favorite.
If I don't stand up for myself, who will?
Your friend,
You asked for space ... Now take it.
That was something that was very hard for me to do in the beginning.
I love good quotes and slogans so I might as well go with a favorite.
If I don't stand up for myself, who will?
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 76
RedCandle, i would assume the "correct" way to handle it would be to hit the delete button and not do anything at all.
I KNOW this is hard. And i have only really done it once or twice (if i am being totally honest with myself).
One of the things i do at night is sit at the computer and hope for an email.... It never comes. And when it finally does come i JUMP at the little bitty thing he "gives" me.
I have found that if you don't look at the computer, dont carry your cell etc... and keep really busy the time actually starts to go by faster and faster.
As a tool i have started to do the following. I will say the first part of the serenity prayer over and over again. God, grand me the serenity. God, grand me the serenety. There is so much in just that little part. I sat and thought about serenety for a looong time over the last few days. That is what i want to achive. SERENITY!
when i am ready, i will move on to the next part, to accept the things i can not change.
I KNOW this is hard. And i have only really done it once or twice (if i am being totally honest with myself).
One of the things i do at night is sit at the computer and hope for an email.... It never comes. And when it finally does come i JUMP at the little bitty thing he "gives" me.
I have found that if you don't look at the computer, dont carry your cell etc... and keep really busy the time actually starts to go by faster and faster.
As a tool i have started to do the following. I will say the first part of the serenity prayer over and over again. God, grand me the serenity. God, grand me the serenety. There is so much in just that little part. I sat and thought about serenety for a looong time over the last few days. That is what i want to achive. SERENITY!
when i am ready, i will move on to the next part, to accept the things i can not change.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Redcandle,
It is a good question ~ how to deal with the text/call/email?
As the new technologies came into my life (much later than the average household), I was giddy with excitement. I was happy to let my children teach me tricks and give me tips. It rang: I answered. It bleeped a text: I had to read it. Then the next technological toy told me when I had email: I had to open it immediately.
Those reactions: *must open now* became a habit. A bad habit.
As I became aware of how I was reacting to the gadget, I became aware of my resentments. I resented the interruptions, I resented the invasion of my time, I resented the taking of my energy to attend to another's needs.
Then I saw my part in the reaction. I was allowing this to happen over and over. It had become a habit.
Slowly, I was able to retrain my reaction into a response. I can now respond to a phone call ~ when I have time (and the energy for some callers).
I can now reply to a text ~ if I have something to say.
I can read an email ~ when I have the time (or when I find my glasses).
I can reply to that email ~ when I have time and if I have something to say.
As a codependent, I was always worried about how the other person would feel if I didn't react to their text/call/email. Especially my alcoholics reaction. So I put my feelings aside and responded to their contacts.
Then I realized I was not responsible for their feelings. I had formed this unhealthy habit, and I could learn a healthier habit. It was an uncomfortable period of adjustment, but I found peace within and with my gadget!
It's a matter of making yourself a priority. You are important!
It is a good question ~ how to deal with the text/call/email?
As the new technologies came into my life (much later than the average household), I was giddy with excitement. I was happy to let my children teach me tricks and give me tips. It rang: I answered. It bleeped a text: I had to read it. Then the next technological toy told me when I had email: I had to open it immediately.
Those reactions: *must open now* became a habit. A bad habit.
As I became aware of how I was reacting to the gadget, I became aware of my resentments. I resented the interruptions, I resented the invasion of my time, I resented the taking of my energy to attend to another's needs.
Then I saw my part in the reaction. I was allowing this to happen over and over. It had become a habit.
Slowly, I was able to retrain my reaction into a response. I can now respond to a phone call ~ when I have time (and the energy for some callers).
I can now reply to a text ~ if I have something to say.
I can read an email ~ when I have the time (or when I find my glasses).
I can reply to that email ~ when I have time and if I have something to say.
As a codependent, I was always worried about how the other person would feel if I didn't react to their text/call/email. Especially my alcoholics reaction. So I put my feelings aside and responded to their contacts.
Then I realized I was not responsible for their feelings. I had formed this unhealthy habit, and I could learn a healthier habit. It was an uncomfortable period of adjustment, but I found peace within and with my gadget!
It's a matter of making yourself a priority. You are important!
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