SadHeart

It matters to her. It's a sign of him taking responsibility for the consequences of his actions. I'm sure she has a long history of dealing with his irresponsible behavior and this is a relatively simple and meaningful thing he can do to demonstrate BY PERFORMANCE (something addicts have a lot of trouble with) that he has changed.

But his interactions with her ARE about her. The non-addicted are important too. It DOES affect her, it DOES reflect upon her. And what you may consider drama queen running around to involve everyone in 'the saga' (created by your boyfriend)--she no doubt considers support, something which mothers of addicts/alcoholic/prisoner NEED and are ENTITLED to. Particularly from their friends and family.

You may decide to martyr yourself on your boyfriend's cause, but you are out of line expecting anyone else to, or to condemn them for not sacrificing themselves for a grown man who really needs to get his act together. These people cause pain; you react to it your way, she reacts to it hers. It may very well be her way of reacting to it is healthier and more beneficial to HIM in the long run.

Enablers and excusers hurt the addict/alcoholic.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not happening. No contact, detachment, stepping back is an EXCELLENT way to save oneself from further pain caused by the alcoholic's never ending antics. It's one of the most highly recommended and endorsed by experts and people with years of experience.

Mothers of addicts and alcoholics still love their children even when they step back and detach. They want to know what is happening to their children, even if they don't want to be involved in the drama and pain. Read the threads from other parents. A LOT of parents on these forums are doing EXACTLY what your boyfriend's parents are doing. If you really want to understand, rather than bash, you can read their threads.

And truthfully, your boyfriend's mother is not 'keeping' anyone from interacting with him. If other family members want to interact with your boyfriend and they are adults they can do so. There's always a way if they want it: email, texts, cell phones, friends, etc...

FifiRhubarb

Sadheart, I'm sorry but what is your damage? It sounds like you have a bone to pick with someone about detachment and guilt, and I understand that, but it's not me. This woman is estranged from her own sister and doesn't have much of a relationship with one of her daughters. She also refers to herself as his "adoptive mother"...21 years after adopting him.

By the way, my grandmother who I mentioned earlier literally drove my grandpa to an early grave. He didn't see his friends, who he worked with for years, as much as he wanted to. Did she tell him he couldn't? No. But it was a lot easier than dealing with her incessant *****ing about it. One of my BF's relatives said that's why his grandma hasn't contacted him, because she lives with the parents and it's not worth the fight. My BF's aunt told him that she and her husband wanted to get in contact with him when he got out of prison, but his mom wouldn't tell them where he lived.

My BF would be the first to tell you all the ways he messed up. I really don't care why she is doing what she's doing. If it works for her, great. But I see how much it has hurt him, and I have no desire to add to that. You have made this about his parents from the first post you added to this thread, and quite frankly that's not at all what I wanted to focus on. Thanks!

FifiRhubarb

That makes perfect sense. :-D I hear what you are saying, and that's more the angle I'm trying to go for. I know his problems are his and mine are mine. It's just hard to keep that in mind when I am also afraid of making him feel alone. Maybe that's not something I should be worried about, but I was raised to believe I am responsible for how I make others feel. I am not responsible for how they react to those feelings though.

LifeRecovery

This journey has helped me to define a couple of things (just for me).

I am responsible for:
My behaviors
What I do with my feelings (reactions)

What I am NOT responsible for:
Another's behavior
Another's feelings or their reactions to me and my feelings.

I had to learn that though I had always thought I was responsible for other's feelings it was not true in my case. That was trying to give myself more power than I ever could, and for me was the center stone of my codependency. For me that was a big part of how I sacrificed myself.

Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie? That book and Al-Anon helped me to get a handle on what was mine and what was not (okay in truth I am still working on it).

DefofLov

Awesome post LifeRecovery.

FiFi, I believe Sadheart has the best of intentions in giving you her perspective. In Al-Anon, we learn to take what we like and leave the rest.

Also, and this is my own perspective, but when I'm defensive about something I step back and think about what I'm defending and why I am defending it. Sometimes, my first reaction is indicative of something I'm in denial of or something I'm not ready to face. This is just my own perspective based on things I've been through. I'm just sharing my own experience. I hope didn't offend you. It's your experience and you know what's going on best.

Love and Light,

Lily

FifiRhubarb

LifeRecovery - Yes, I am reading that book right now. It's excellent. But if I don't want to hurt him, and also don't want to hurt me, is that codependent? I am having a hard time between what is codependent and what is what I want, as opposed to what someone else wants, if that makes sense.

Lily - You did not offend me at all. The funny thing is that's kind of the impression I got from Sadheart being so defensive about ABF's parents' actions. Oh well.

Thlayli

Al-anon meetings help me with that issue. I don't know if it's really possible to figure out which of our own actions are co-dependent or not without a lot of practice and feedback from others.

FWIW - my AH sounds a lot like yours. He has a long history of turning off feelings and relationships. That's actually what brought me here last year. He relapsed and was turning into this robot and packed up to leave. I've discovered that my detaching helps me feel better and actually helps him get over himself. A lot of what people recommend feels sooooo counterintuitive and can feel like the exact wrong thing to do...but what I had done before wasn't working.

Tuffgirl

Detachment was a hard but fascinating concept for me to wrap my head around. AT first, I had to detach from my RAH in anger, it was the only way I could put a buffer between him and me to protect myself. I learned later on I can detach from his choices and behaviors without separating myself from him. I think that is really the outcome detachment serves...not stopping any and all communication with someone if we don't want to, but removing ourselves from the enmeshment we have in their lives.

My very dear friend is an alcoholic. We still have a relationship, but I am very detached from her behaviors and choices. For example, we made a plan to go to lunch a few weeks ago. I proceeded on as usual, showing up on time on the day we decided on, knowing full well she may not be there, or be awake. Sure enough she didn't answer the door when I knocked. I went on about my day anyway, with no emotion about it whatsoever. It is alcoholism, not her, and I can remain detached enough to not take these very classic alcoholic behaviors personally but to expect them instead and love her anyway.

Does that make any sense? Sometimes I feel like I ramble on and on... ; )

I don't think you need to push him away at all. Just keep a firm distance from his behavior that comes from the diseased alcoholic mind. Expect it to be that way.

FifiRhubarb

That makes a lot of sense! Thank you. I will be sure to reread the last 2 posts when I am on my computer as opposed to my phone and respond adequately very helpful!

LifeRecovery

[QUOTE=FifiRhubarb;3497238]LifeRecovery - Yes, I am reading that book right now. It's excellent. But if I don't want to hurt him, and also don't want to hurt me, is that codependent? I am having a hard time between what is codependent and what is what I want, as opposed to what someone else wants, if that makes sense.QUOTE]

Even if I hula hoop, while doing a ballet, and juggle five on fire bowling balls all at the same time I cannot guarantee that at some point I won't hurt my loved one. I can't control his reactions to the situation. I can purposely not try to be mean, nor be hurtful toward him, but again that does not mean I can always make it roses for him.

Often he hurt me....not on purpose but as an impact of alcoholic behavior.

I don't think not desiring to hurt another is being codependent. I think feeling like I had the power to assure someone would never be hurt by me was.

On the list of important things in my life I was NEVER first, never. That to me was codependent.

Gently, (and not trying to create a revenge scenario), if he is still actively drinking are you and your feelings up at the top of his list? Many alcoholics also struggle with codependency too, but often in active addiction what appears most important to them is the substance of choice.

This took me YEARS to work on, and I still struggle.

I have a great counselor that helps me with this stuff...especially when I get stuck.

FifiRhubarb

I realized that myself the other day. I have always prided myself on putting my family first, my boyfriend first, etc. But I realized I have been putting myself on the sidelines a lot and then wondering why I'm not where I want to be. Not to blame the other people AT ALL for my discontent. I chose to put them before me and I am not saying that in a self-congratulatory way.

Not at all. Even when he is not drinking I feel that even though I am at the top of the list, my feelings are not. He doesn't think, he just acts. He knows he makes stupid decisions, and he regrets them later. But in the moment he is often as impulsive as a 13 year old boy. He has ADHD and he reminds me of a friend I had in high school. The nicest kid ever, but he always got himself into trouble by doing stupid things for no reason other than it seemed like a good idea. He wouldn't hurt a fly, was one of the kindest people I have ever met, but he was constantly in hot water. As someone who is very cautious in most areas of life--and always has been--I have such a hard time understanding this.

My BF is codependent in a way....he says he physically relaxes when I hug him, he can't sleep well without me, he never has the urge to drink around me, etc. The good news is that he does not try to remedy that by only being around me, nor has he ever used that as manipulation or emotional blackmail. Silver lining...?

LifeRecovery

To me just telling you that being around you makes him not want to drink is kind of a prayer, and may change your behavior. Or if he does drink around you without you having good boundaries it sure is a way to not have you feel so good.

I am also very organized, cautious etc. My loved one that got me here was diagnosed with late in life ADD too.

This part of the disease is played out time and time again on these boards. My loved one did not drink the first year of our relationship in front of me AT ALL. I thought that was the norm until the second year when all sorts of stuff started breaking loose....then I got married and it really exploded.

I lived in fantasy world for a long time, this board, Al-Anon, therapy and reading about codependency has helped me to come into reality.

FifiRhubarb

Good point, LR. I think the contexts he has said it in make it less that way. For example, last time we talked I told him about how I realized how codependent I am and he said "in a way I am too. I mean I'm chemically dependent but at the same time when I'm around you I don't have the urge to drink." I know that's not true though. He always has the urge, he just doesn't have the opportunity when with me. But one of the few things I have done right is not allowing that to change whether or not I spend time with him. If I'm upset with him and don't want to see him, I don't let the thought of him drinking instead sway me. If he's going to do it, he's going to do it.