Al Anon meeting topic- Detachment
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Al Anon meeting topic- Detachment
Went to my 4th AlAnon meeting last night and we started discussing detachment. Ive always been kind of confused about this topic so i asked for a clearer definition of the word and phrase 'detachment with love' because i have NC with my XABF and was uncertain if the 2 actions were the same thing. (No they arent.) But anywho, I gained some insight but 1 older ladies comment irked me while discussing 'detachment with love;' she turned to me and said, 'you dont detach from the person, you detach from the problem.' I didnt like that at all! Especially because this women stated she has been married to 2 alcoholics, grew up with an alcoholic family, and now her 2 children are alcoholics/addicts. Like jeesh wth!? I understand everyone has different ways of dealing with things but it just seemed like condescending crazy talk for some reason; detaching with love may have brought the old women peace & serenity but keeping her children in that situation OBVIOUSLY had negative affects. To me it was like she was subliminally trying to tell me to give my A another shot but dont let his problems become my problems. Like hell i will! I would never put myself or my child back in that situation especially after reading here and knowing what i know now. To me, & my apologies if my next statement offends anyone, but IMHO detachment with love seems like an easy out for people who'd rather be in a relationship, even if its with an A,than start a new life alone. What are yalls thoughts on this situation? What are yalls definitions of detachment and detachment with love??
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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This is a very timely post for me. I didnt understanf detachment. Ive been going to al anon for two months and reading a ton. Just Tuesday I asked my counselor if I detach from the alcoholism and the alcoholic mindset, what is left? How to detach? Last night I had a moment of enlightenment, truly, the idea of detachment hit me and I felt clarity on it. I can love my AH for who he is but I don't have to like the alcoholism. I can choose not to engage with the alcoholic, but I will engage with my husband. I wish I could put into words my understanding.
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Join Date: May 2012
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I couldn't do detachment with love - I had to detach myself from the situation completely. I still wonder if I had made more effort, read up on it more if it might have made a difference but deep down i know my x would have seen rhe difference. The only way I could detach with love was to walk away and accept I can't fix him and he needs to fix himself.
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This is a great topic that has been on my mind recently. I have been separated from my AW for over a year now. In the beginning I was happy with simply detaching.
The way I see it at some point in my marriage my hand was in a meat grinder, metaphorically speaking of course. So I did the normal rational thing. I begged the meat grinder to change. I pleaded with the meat grinder to change its ways if it loved me. I spent years crying and trying to figure out why it wouldn't change for me and stop being a meat grinder. I finally wised up and removed my hand from the meat grinder and moved on. I detached but not with love. I was so mad at the meat grinder for what it had done to me and the suffering it had caused me.
I then found SR andAl Anon and started to work on myself. I got better. A couple of months ago I ran into the meat grinder and she asked me if I forgave her. I said yes.
Recently I have been thinking about that. I realized that I don't forgive her. That's because there was nothing to forgive. She was a meat grinder and she was just doing what meat grinders do. That was her nature. I was the one who kept my hand in the grinder. I could have pulled it out at any time. That wasn't her fault.
To me that is what is meant by detaching with love. Although I think the more accurate term is detaching with compassion.
Your friend,
The way I see it at some point in my marriage my hand was in a meat grinder, metaphorically speaking of course. So I did the normal rational thing. I begged the meat grinder to change. I pleaded with the meat grinder to change its ways if it loved me. I spent years crying and trying to figure out why it wouldn't change for me and stop being a meat grinder. I finally wised up and removed my hand from the meat grinder and moved on. I detached but not with love. I was so mad at the meat grinder for what it had done to me and the suffering it had caused me.
I then found SR andAl Anon and started to work on myself. I got better. A couple of months ago I ran into the meat grinder and she asked me if I forgave her. I said yes.
Recently I have been thinking about that. I realized that I don't forgive her. That's because there was nothing to forgive. She was a meat grinder and she was just doing what meat grinders do. That was her nature. I was the one who kept my hand in the grinder. I could have pulled it out at any time. That wasn't her fault.
To me that is what is meant by detaching with love. Although I think the more accurate term is detaching with compassion.
Your friend,
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The way I see it the word "detachment" is the opposite of "enmeshed".
Before my ex became addicted to pills we had a wonderful marriage. We were a "team" dealing with the challenges of life and enjoying the blessings. She had her own career, finances, friends and managed them just fine. We shared a home, and we shared our lives in those areas where they overlapped.
She is an acomplished artist. She would decide what subject she wanted to paint, where to show it when done, whether to sell it or keep it. All I did was be her cheerleader.
When she became addicted to pain pills _I_ became addicted to trying to control that addiction. I started asking her about her friends, what she did with them, why she chose to show her work at one gallery instead of another. I was trying to control her addiction by controlling the _entirety_ of her life. We were no longer two independent people who shared common interests. I became a person who spent his entire life trying to get into _her_ life. My own life disapeared.
Detachment, for me, is to return to that separation where we each have our own lives, and we each enjoy each other where our lives overlap. But no further. When she became ill from the pills I would call 911 and go with her to the ER, because she was, at that moment, unable to call 911 herself. When she wanted me to go get pills from a doctor because she had run out I would not go, because she is capable of doing that herself.
Detachment means that I treat her the way I would treat any other adult. Enmeshment means that I have given up my life in an attempt to control hers.
Mike
Before my ex became addicted to pills we had a wonderful marriage. We were a "team" dealing with the challenges of life and enjoying the blessings. She had her own career, finances, friends and managed them just fine. We shared a home, and we shared our lives in those areas where they overlapped.
She is an acomplished artist. She would decide what subject she wanted to paint, where to show it when done, whether to sell it or keep it. All I did was be her cheerleader.
When she became addicted to pain pills _I_ became addicted to trying to control that addiction. I started asking her about her friends, what she did with them, why she chose to show her work at one gallery instead of another. I was trying to control her addiction by controlling the _entirety_ of her life. We were no longer two independent people who shared common interests. I became a person who spent his entire life trying to get into _her_ life. My own life disapeared.
Detachment, for me, is to return to that separation where we each have our own lives, and we each enjoy each other where our lives overlap. But no further. When she became ill from the pills I would call 911 and go with her to the ER, because she was, at that moment, unable to call 911 herself. When she wanted me to go get pills from a doctor because she had run out I would not go, because she is capable of doing that herself.
Detachment means that I treat her the way I would treat any other adult. Enmeshment means that I have given up my life in an attempt to control hers.
Mike
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my insight (for what it's worth) is that sometimes the only way to detach from the problem is to detach from the person, perhaps physically, and perhaps with less love and more indifference or anger, or whatever gives me the push I need to get to the place I need to be so I'm not making myself crazy any more.
I wish I could always detach with grace, compassion, love, in a perfect zen-like serenity. I can when my kids throw a tantrum (mostly) - but my reality is that with some people the only way I can successfully detach from the situation/problem initially is far less "elegant": compassion came later once I had the physical and mental space to develop it (and it feels like a better place to be) and sometimes that disappears for a bit.
progress not perfection
I wish I could always detach with grace, compassion, love, in a perfect zen-like serenity. I can when my kids throw a tantrum (mostly) - but my reality is that with some people the only way I can successfully detach from the situation/problem initially is far less "elegant": compassion came later once I had the physical and mental space to develop it (and it feels like a better place to be) and sometimes that disappears for a bit.
progress not perfection
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I love mike's meat grinder analogy--perfect!
I think what a lot of people here have said is very wise--the best thing in a perfect world is to be superhuman, love the man/hate the disease blah blah blah but for practical purposes, it's so hard to do--so hard to disentangle one from the other. But detachment does come with practice, and it's the best way to keep from getting eaten up with resentment.
Our alcoholic loved ones are fallible people, just like us. Sometimes you remove the alcohol and you see the human being for what she/he is and you can love them with a love no more personal than you would have for any creature of God. Then, when the alcohol gets involved and turns them into another far less lovable being, fighting their Creator, your detaching is simply walking away--either emotionally, physically, or both--with the love intact.
My analogy is that scene in Mommy Dearest when the maid apologizes profusely for leaving a ring of dirt around the plant that's sitting on a gleaming marble floor. Faye Dunaway, as Joan Crawford, yells, "I'm not mad at YOU--I'm mad at the dirt." That's the way I think of it sometimes.
I think what a lot of people here have said is very wise--the best thing in a perfect world is to be superhuman, love the man/hate the disease blah blah blah but for practical purposes, it's so hard to do--so hard to disentangle one from the other. But detachment does come with practice, and it's the best way to keep from getting eaten up with resentment.
Our alcoholic loved ones are fallible people, just like us. Sometimes you remove the alcohol and you see the human being for what she/he is and you can love them with a love no more personal than you would have for any creature of God. Then, when the alcohol gets involved and turns them into another far less lovable being, fighting their Creator, your detaching is simply walking away--either emotionally, physically, or both--with the love intact.
My analogy is that scene in Mommy Dearest when the maid apologizes profusely for leaving a ring of dirt around the plant that's sitting on a gleaming marble floor. Faye Dunaway, as Joan Crawford, yells, "I'm not mad at YOU--I'm mad at the dirt." That's the way I think of it sometimes.
To thine own self be true.
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Detachment means many things to me. But , because I become very emotionally attached to people, for me emotional detachment is the strongest. To get there, I usually have to physically detach from someone.
Detachment with love means that I can choose to step aside and allow another to continue to make their own choices without judgment, anger, or abuse. I can treat that person as calmly and lovingly as possible, which means accepting that they are a human being with feelings, and that I do not need to be hateful, spiteful, hurtful, or resentful.
Detachment with love means that I can choose to step aside and allow another to continue to make their own choices without judgment, anger, or abuse. I can treat that person as calmly and lovingly as possible, which means accepting that they are a human being with feelings, and that I do not need to be hateful, spiteful, hurtful, or resentful.
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Forget the definitions of detachment for a moment -- I wanted to focus on something else:
Remember, when you're at Al-Anon as well as here, that you're surrounded by codies. We love to give advice and help and tell other people what to do.
YOU are the expert on YOUR situation. The rest of us can only speak from our experience. And I do think we tend to give advice that mirror our experiences. That lady reminds me of my friend's mother: My friend was in a terrible marriage with an abusive man, and filed for divorce. Her mother was encouraging her to stay in the abusive marriage. Saying things like "my marriage isn't good either but if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you." My friend finally figured out that her decision to divorce her abusive husband was difficult for her mother because it made her mother aware that she had the same choice. And she didn't want to acknowledge that, because it meant that -- she started questioning her own choices. And that hurt.
I know when I first came here, that people who said "leave him, it's not going to get better" made me angry. They didn't help, I felt. They didn't understand, I felt. Now, I'm one of those people myself. If I had stayed, and found a way to "detach with love" and stay in the relationship -- I would probably have told people about how I did that. Because that would have been what I knew.
And I bow to Mike for his image, and for his progress in his recovery.
I'm still royally pissed at my (ex-)meatgrinder for being a meatgrinder, most days.
Remember, when you're at Al-Anon as well as here, that you're surrounded by codies. We love to give advice and help and tell other people what to do.
YOU are the expert on YOUR situation. The rest of us can only speak from our experience. And I do think we tend to give advice that mirror our experiences. That lady reminds me of my friend's mother: My friend was in a terrible marriage with an abusive man, and filed for divorce. Her mother was encouraging her to stay in the abusive marriage. Saying things like "my marriage isn't good either but if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you." My friend finally figured out that her decision to divorce her abusive husband was difficult for her mother because it made her mother aware that she had the same choice. And she didn't want to acknowledge that, because it meant that -- she started questioning her own choices. And that hurt.
I know when I first came here, that people who said "leave him, it's not going to get better" made me angry. They didn't help, I felt. They didn't understand, I felt. Now, I'm one of those people myself. If I had stayed, and found a way to "detach with love" and stay in the relationship -- I would probably have told people about how I did that. Because that would have been what I knew.
And I bow to Mike for his image, and for his progress in his recovery.
I'm still royally pissed at my (ex-)meatgrinder for being a meatgrinder, most days.
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I don't get (yet) the detachment phase of recovery. I can detach well (I just stop showing I feel, but the feelings don't stop) - at least in my own mind. Right now my AH is doing his own thing in his own place. I wish I could call him just to say...hey, I am LEARNING how to detach from you! Somehow, I don't think that is how you are supposed to do it.
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Originally Posted by Sanity2012 
I can detach well (I just stop showing I feel, but the feelings don't stop) - at least in my own mind.
When that happens, often I can become an observer instead of a participant. My "feelings" subside.
Maybe the person who caused my emotional reaction is upset about something not even related to me. Maybe the person is trying to push my buttons. Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting the situation and what I perceive as an "attack" isn't even about me. Maybe the person is upset with me, but I haven't done anything wrong. In any of those situations I don't have to react. I can, with practice, choose how I'm going to respond and I can do it without getting emotionally involved.
That, to me, is detachment.
I'm a Buddhist, and one of the first things we're told is that the cause of all of our suffering is attachment. It's one thing to read that, or be told that. It's another thing to experience detachment and see an actual reduction in my suffering.
I like the quote: "In this life, pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."
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Someone gave the following example of detachment and detachment with love at one of my Al-Anon meetings a while back. I'm not sure how this qualifies, but here goes:
Detachment: Your loved one is passed out on the floor of the living room, and you leave him/her there when you go off to bed for the night.
Detachment with Love: Your loved one is passed out on the floor of the living room, and you take the blanket off the couch and put it over him/her before you go off to bed for the night.
Detachment: Your loved one is passed out on the floor of the living room, and you leave him/her there when you go off to bed for the night.
Detachment with Love: Your loved one is passed out on the floor of the living room, and you take the blanket off the couch and put it over him/her before you go off to bed for the night.
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Thank yall for the helpful information. The meat grinder analogy was spot on for me! In my situation completely detaching & going NC was my only choice because,like for some others on here, the pain of staying would be worse than the pain of leaving. For me, i know, there's no way i could stay in that situation & practice the art of 'detaching with love'- more power to the people who can do it- because I still see it as a no win situation. You still have to deal with the A & their insanity but learn how to ignore it basically;that doesn't sound appealing or like a happy healthy relationship that most of us seem to want. But like i said, everyone deals with situations differently.
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