The Depth of Denial
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The Depth of Denial
I really can't wrap my brain around it.
Maybe it's me, but the twisting and re organizing of facts with an alcoholic is just bizarre.
Is there some knowing somewhere, in that brain that understands the way facts or actions or incidents become so convaluted that even a perfectly sane person would crumble under the deception??
Maybe it's me, but the twisting and re organizing of facts with an alcoholic is just bizarre.
Is there some knowing somewhere, in that brain that understands the way facts or actions or incidents become so convaluted that even a perfectly sane person would crumble under the deception??
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Katiekate,
Interesting you would post that question just as I'm reading the book: "The Addictive Personality: Understanding the Addictive Process and Compulsive Behavior" by Craig M. Nakken
Someone here, I apologize for forgetting who, recommended it and I just got to the line, and I'll quote from the book: "The addictive belief system becomes a person's foundation, and it develops into a lifestyle. It is in this stage that addicts start to arrange their lives and relationships using addictive logic to guide them."
Like you, I can't wrap my brain around it. I'm reading this book in complete amazement knowing full well I'll probably need to read it several more times again just to get a glimmer of what they're talking about.
I guess that is why we can't have a logical and reasonable conversation with the alcoholic addict...the person we thought we knew has already checked out and we are essentially conversing (or arguing) with a stranger.
Puli50 nailed it exactly !!!!
Interesting you would post that question just as I'm reading the book: "The Addictive Personality: Understanding the Addictive Process and Compulsive Behavior" by Craig M. Nakken
Someone here, I apologize for forgetting who, recommended it and I just got to the line, and I'll quote from the book: "The addictive belief system becomes a person's foundation, and it develops into a lifestyle. It is in this stage that addicts start to arrange their lives and relationships using addictive logic to guide them."
Like you, I can't wrap my brain around it. I'm reading this book in complete amazement knowing full well I'll probably need to read it several more times again just to get a glimmer of what they're talking about.
I guess that is why we can't have a logical and reasonable conversation with the alcoholic addict...the person we thought we knew has already checked out and we are essentially conversing (or arguing) with a stranger.
Puli50 nailed it exactly !!!!
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It's NUTS! It is so easy to get sucked in and believe some of it, and I am not drunk (so more than likely at least semi sane and not under the influence) so I imagine that for a person who is in active addiction or drunk half the time it makes even more sense. Does that make sense? lol
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Does that make sense? lol
I understood my own BS, because it kept me drinking, protect the drink!
Yet, I did not understand my ex's BS (once I got sober) because (I think) he started smoking crack. There is a level of crazy paranoia with crack I just could not get!
Wow, what a web we weave when at first we start to deceive.
:rotfxko
Beth
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I don't think we're meant to wrap our brains around it in all honesty. I mean how can a person argue HARD facts, facts that can be proven? Why would they want to make themselves look entirely stupid, or is it that lies are so easy for them that they delude themselves into believing them? Like you said, a sane person would crack, but for alcoholics (or any addicts I guess) it's almost second nature.
The other day I had a textathon with my stepdaughter's alcoholic mother and reminded her of the fact (and it is a fact, as we keep a comprehensive diary of her contact, both physical and by phone) that she has only visited her daughter 7 times in 10 and half months. She came back with 'I certainly have NOT only visited her 7 times. It is at least twice that much'. Err, excuse me? I asked her to list the other times she reckons she visited and asked if perhaps she had dreamt them, to be replied with 'I KNOW my own mind thank you'. Sad, very sad, and quite unbelievable. Quack!
The other day I had a textathon with my stepdaughter's alcoholic mother and reminded her of the fact (and it is a fact, as we keep a comprehensive diary of her contact, both physical and by phone) that she has only visited her daughter 7 times in 10 and half months. She came back with 'I certainly have NOT only visited her 7 times. It is at least twice that much'. Err, excuse me? I asked her to list the other times she reckons she visited and asked if perhaps she had dreamt them, to be replied with 'I KNOW my own mind thank you'. Sad, very sad, and quite unbelievable. Quack!
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Thanks so much for these posts , they are so helpful, sometimes I am just reeling from the absurdity of it all.
I'm so glad to see it now, still hard to assimilate.
It does bring me some peace however.
Still learning.
You guys are so helpful. Thank you .
I'm so glad to see it now, still hard to assimilate.
It does bring me some peace however.
Still learning.
You guys are so helpful. Thank you .
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'I KNOW my own mind thank you'. Sad, very sad, and quite unbelievable. Quack!
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Interesting subject! I think they manipulate every thing and every situation. It reminds me of the truly guilty convict always claiming innocence and trying to get others to believe him. It can make your head spin.
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Originally Posted by wicked 
Yes! I think this is closer to it, it is her mind, and what is happening in there is absolute fact to her. You cannot change her mind because you are not her. Facts? Pshaaaw.
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Alcoholism is classified as a mental illness by the American Medical Association. You probably can't relate to someone hearing voices either or someone who believes the only solution is to commit suicide.
Yes, read "Alcoholic Thinking".........
Yes, read "Alcoholic Thinking".........
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This is a great thread, and so timely. I've been reading on this very topic, because this is where I struggle the most. And folks, its not just alcoholics who have their own reality. We all do - but I think its on a continuum when it comes to protecting your own version of reality at all costs. Some people can be flexible with their interpretations of life, others are just so rigid that they are incapable of understanding and accepting they are viewing life unfold through their own filters, and maybe...just maybe...those filters are warped.
I had an amazing discussion with a friend during a 4 month sober stint (she has now relapsed again) about how it felt to hear stories from her family of how she behaved, and how horrified she was at how little she remembered, or remembered completely differently from the 5 other people describing the same event. She was able to come to terms with the idea of her thinking being really messed up, but when she began drinking again, it became the same old denial again.
I was often accused of "rewriting history" and being a revisionist" when I would describe a different experience of the same event. Even sober, he was just too rigid (invested, ego driven, needed to be right, whichever) to acknowledge there is always multiple views, not just his. His one reality is the only reality. Imagine the ego to declare that? My view of the world is the absolute truth?
I have come to terms with not being able to wrap my brain around it all. Acceptance of that, I suppose you can call it. But its still hard to imagine someone willing to go down on that sinking ship, waving the "I'm Right" flag. It just seems so defeatist to me. But...that's just my humble opinion!
I had an amazing discussion with a friend during a 4 month sober stint (she has now relapsed again) about how it felt to hear stories from her family of how she behaved, and how horrified she was at how little she remembered, or remembered completely differently from the 5 other people describing the same event. She was able to come to terms with the idea of her thinking being really messed up, but when she began drinking again, it became the same old denial again.
I was often accused of "rewriting history" and being a revisionist" when I would describe a different experience of the same event. Even sober, he was just too rigid (invested, ego driven, needed to be right, whichever) to acknowledge there is always multiple views, not just his. His one reality is the only reality. Imagine the ego to declare that? My view of the world is the absolute truth?
I have come to terms with not being able to wrap my brain around it all. Acceptance of that, I suppose you can call it. But its still hard to imagine someone willing to go down on that sinking ship, waving the "I'm Right" flag. It just seems so defeatist to me. But...that's just my humble opinion!
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
This is a great thread, and so timely. I've been reading on this very topic, because this is where I struggle the most. And folks, its not just alcoholics who have their own reality. We all do - but I think its on a continuum when it comes to protecting your own version of reality at all costs. Some people can be flexible with their interpretations of life, others are just so rigid that they are incapable of understanding and accepting they are viewing life unfold through their own filters, and maybe...just maybe...those filters are warped.
I had an amazing discussion with a friend during a 4 month sober stint (she has now relapsed again) about how it felt to hear stories from her family of how she behaved, and how horrified she was at how little she remembered, or remembered completely differently from the 5 other people describing the same event. She was able to come to terms with the idea of her thinking being really messed up, but when she began drinking again, it became the same old denial again.
I was often accused of "rewriting history" and being a revisionist" when I would describe a different experience of the same event. Even sober, he was just too rigid (invested, ego driven, needed to be right, whichever) to acknowledge there is always multiple views, not just his. His one reality is the only reality. Imagine the ego to declare that? My view of the world is the absolute truth?
I have come to terms with not being able to wrap my brain around it all. Acceptance of that, I suppose you can call it. But its still hard to imagine someone willing to go down on that sinking ship, waving the "I'm Right" flag. It just seems so defeatist to me. But...that's just my humble opinion!
I had an amazing discussion with a friend during a 4 month sober stint (she has now relapsed again) about how it felt to hear stories from her family of how she behaved, and how horrified she was at how little she remembered, or remembered completely differently from the 5 other people describing the same event. She was able to come to terms with the idea of her thinking being really messed up, but when she began drinking again, it became the same old denial again.
I was often accused of "rewriting history" and being a revisionist" when I would describe a different experience of the same event. Even sober, he was just too rigid (invested, ego driven, needed to be right, whichever) to acknowledge there is always multiple views, not just his. His one reality is the only reality. Imagine the ego to declare that? My view of the world is the absolute truth?
I have come to terms with not being able to wrap my brain around it all. Acceptance of that, I suppose you can call it. But its still hard to imagine someone willing to go down on that sinking ship, waving the "I'm Right" flag. It just seems so defeatist to me. But...that's just my humble opinion!
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