Is it relationship "boredom", or recovery work that's still settling in??
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Is it relationship "boredom", or recovery work that's still settling in??
I'm not even sure how to address this issue. I'm soooo used to drama in my romantic relationships and so I stayed single for a year and a half, attended Alanon 4-5 times per week (I still go to 2-4 meetings/week), meet with my sponsor, go to therapy...yadda yadda yadda. I started truly "dating" after it had been over a year since the breakup from my exA and my divorce was final. Had a great summer doing coffee dates, not committing to anyone but myself and fine-tuning my list of what I wanted in a partner. And some of what showed up on my list was quite surprising for me, but that's another story. I made a lot of discoveries through recovery and got a whole lot more comfy in my own skin.
I met a wonderful man who is attentive, kind, motivated, emotionally available, no addiction history, has a true willingness and ability to listen and respond to what I say, he's supportive, financially independent, asks about my kids when he calls each day (I've made it clear I want to leave the kids out of my relationship with him for a while, & he is not pushing that issue at all), etc. Yes, he's got his "stuff", and I see some of it so I know I'm not sweeping everything under the rug as I've done in past relationships. He seems open and willing to talk about pretty much everything. His actions match his words. We've been together for just 2 months so it's early, but so far, the signs are really good. And I keep running all of this past my sponsor, therapist and trusted friends to keep myself honest. So far, so good.
So what is my problem, right? I can't really say. There's a "restlessness" inside of me that I've felt in relationships before, but it's different somehow and I can't seem to grasp it. I'm suspicious that a part of me wants to sabotage this relationship because it doesn't have the drama that I'm used to. It isn't that I don't have some challenges in my life, especially since exH is taking me to court. That news arrived in the form of a summons shortly after I got into this relationship and I'm trying to find/create a sense of balance for myself as I prep for court as well as invest in this happy development in my life. I think I'm overall doing okay with the balance. Typically I come home after a busy day and I sigh happily, my home is finally, truly a place of peace for me--that is a miracle in and of itself! I haven't had that experience since I was a very young child. I'm in what seems to be a really good relationship. My children are doing well in school, have been living with me full-time for 8 months and are seemingly happy. I have this great Alanon family, SR family, sponsor support and many friends. I have a spiritual connection that brings me joy through daily meditation. I love my work. Everything is going really well...
...so why does it feel like I'm looking for issues in this relationship??! Feeling frustrated with myself, and seeking ES&H...
Thanks,
posie
I met a wonderful man who is attentive, kind, motivated, emotionally available, no addiction history, has a true willingness and ability to listen and respond to what I say, he's supportive, financially independent, asks about my kids when he calls each day (I've made it clear I want to leave the kids out of my relationship with him for a while, & he is not pushing that issue at all), etc. Yes, he's got his "stuff", and I see some of it so I know I'm not sweeping everything under the rug as I've done in past relationships. He seems open and willing to talk about pretty much everything. His actions match his words. We've been together for just 2 months so it's early, but so far, the signs are really good. And I keep running all of this past my sponsor, therapist and trusted friends to keep myself honest. So far, so good.
So what is my problem, right? I can't really say. There's a "restlessness" inside of me that I've felt in relationships before, but it's different somehow and I can't seem to grasp it. I'm suspicious that a part of me wants to sabotage this relationship because it doesn't have the drama that I'm used to. It isn't that I don't have some challenges in my life, especially since exH is taking me to court. That news arrived in the form of a summons shortly after I got into this relationship and I'm trying to find/create a sense of balance for myself as I prep for court as well as invest in this happy development in my life. I think I'm overall doing okay with the balance. Typically I come home after a busy day and I sigh happily, my home is finally, truly a place of peace for me--that is a miracle in and of itself! I haven't had that experience since I was a very young child. I'm in what seems to be a really good relationship. My children are doing well in school, have been living with me full-time for 8 months and are seemingly happy. I have this great Alanon family, SR family, sponsor support and many friends. I have a spiritual connection that brings me joy through daily meditation. I love my work. Everything is going really well...
...so why does it feel like I'm looking for issues in this relationship??! Feeling frustrated with myself, and seeking ES&H...
Thanks,
posie
Present
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: "Happy Rock" (Gladstone) Oregon
Posts: 1,252
Your post reminded me of something I read here in SR that REALLY resonated. SO...I did a Search and found it!! I hope this helps...
Originally Posted by cynical one 
The Brain Chemistry of Being a Loved One
~Lori Pate
B.A Psychology
University of Texas at Austin
Many people who have loved an addict have felt like they were going insane from all the chaos, worry, regret, fear, anger, confusion and more that comes with caring for someone who is in active drug addiction.
It seems reasonable that if the addict would just stop using, everything would return to normal and a happy life would resume. There is usually more going on though. There are chemical changes happening not just in the brain of the addict, but also in the brain of the loved one.
"What? I'm not the crazy one! The addict in my life is the only one going crazy, not me!"
That isn't always true. The chemical changes in the brain of a loved one should be understood to help speed recovery. Chemical changes in the brain of someone who is constantly in a state of stress, fear, anxiety and anger are not insignificant and are accompanied by withdrawal symptoms just like an addict who stops using.
The brain uses chemical messengers, called neurotransmitters, to allow us to feel feelings. Hunger, thirst, desire, satisfaction, frustration, fear and every human emotion are felt by the activity of chemical messengers in the brain. The most important messenger in this situation is norepinephrine (also known as adrenaline).
Norepinephrine is known as the "fight or flight" chemical messenger. This chemical is what causes us to feel a rush of energy when faced with a dangerous situation. Proper activity and levels of this messenger help humans get and keep themselves safe from harm. This chemical gives us the super-human abilities to outrun an attacker or think quickly in an emergency.
When a dangerous situation is perceived, norepinephrine is released in the brain. Receptors in the brain have "parking spaces" for the chemical to "park" in, which deliver the message. Once the chemical is plugged in, we feel a burst of energy, and a drive to get ourselves safe, take action, run or fight.
After the event is over, the messenger is released from the parking spot, and recycled to use again later. We begin to feel calmer and safer. The rush subsides. Heart rates return to normal. The feelings of fear and anxiety subside.
This happens all the time in all healthy humans.
But the human brain does not like constant stimulation. As soon as we are excited from a chemical message, the brain goes to work to return levels to normal. There are several mechanisms that work to do this. First, the chemicals are picked up by "reuptake" chemicals. Think of them like a tow truck. They are constantly floating around, looking for a chemical to tow back home. Recycling the chemicals restores levels to normal.
If constant stimulation occurs, causing constant chemical messages, recycling isn't enough. So the brain, in its effort to regain a normal balance, will begin destroying the chemicals permanently. If we are constantly in fight or flight mode, the brain determines that we have too many "fight or flight" messengers, so destroys them.
For someone who actually has too much adrenaline in their brain, this is helpful. But for someone who is constantly in a situation where they really are put under stress, and are triggered to respond to fear over and over, the destruction of their chemical messengers begins to cause a brain chemistry imbalance.
There is a third mechanism that the brain uses to restore balance. After recycling and destroying the messenger chemicals, if the brain is still being over-stimulated, it will destroy the parking spaces that the chemicals plug into. These are called dendrites. Once a dendrite is destroyed,it can not be repaired. It will never again receive the chemical message it was designed to receive. It is like yanking out the phone cord of a phone that won't stop ringing. It will never ring again.
When a loved one is in a constant state of worry and fear, the brain first experiences stimulation. It feels imperative for the loved one to take action, sometimes desperate action, in an attempt to remedy the fearful situation. If this stimulation continues day after day, the brain can not tolerate the constant stimulation and starts taking action to regain balance. Adrenaline is destroyed. Receptors are destroyed.
This is when the insanity of being a loved one really takes off. The loved one is no longer chemically balanced. Several things happen at this point:
****Things that used to signal danger no longer feel so dangerous. There simply aren't enough "danger" chemicals or receptors to accurately convey the appropriate feelings. At this point loved ones may begin accepting very dangerous situations as OK. For example they may feel it is a good idea to track down a loved one at a dealer's house, or accept a loved one who is violent and abusive in their home. They may make a choice to allow a dangerous person to be around their children. This is not because the loved one just isn't making good choices. More accurately it is because their brain chemistry has been altered by the constant chaos, and they no longer have the right feelings that would initiate safe choices. Unacceptable behavior doesn't feel as truly dangerous as it is. ****
Still, some loved ones are aware enough to know they should stop being in a dangerous situation. When the loved one stops contact with the addict in their life, that is when withdrawal sets in.
Withdrawal occurs when the brain is accustomed to a particular level of chemical activity, and that level is suddenly reduced.
A loved one who has become accustomed to constant stimulation from fear and concern, who then suddenly finds themselves in a safe, calm environment, will feel withdrawal because their brains have adjusted to a high level of adrenaline.
Withdrawal symptoms cause the loved one to feel quite uncomfortable. They will feel sad, have sleep problems, and feel that something is missing or just not quite right. This will cause the loved one to feel a desire to reach back out to the chaos they were accustomed to. The chaos will cause a hit of adrenaline to occur. This is the exact same cycle that an active drug addict goes through: stimulation followed by withdrawal. Withdrawal feelings cause a desire to be stimulated again, because the brain does not like extremes.
Because the loved one who has undergone chemical changes has lower than normal adrenaline activity in the brain, they will crave stimulation. They will feel an overwhelming desire to "check on" the addict, or to take a phone call even though they know it will not have the end result of a pleasant conversation. They will engage in arguments that they know have no possibility of being resolved while the addict in their life is still in active addiction. The will feel drawn back to the fear and worry they just escaped.
An extreme example of this is seen when a battered spouse continues to return to their abuser despite having other options.
This is the brain chemistry side of the chaos cycle of being a loved one.
So does it ever get better?
Yes! It absolutely can get better.
The human body can make more adrenaline, to replace what was destroyed when under constant stress. Not quickly, but slowly, it can replenish the levels of adrenaline so that the person feels normal, without needing chaos in their life to achieve a balance.
The human body makes neurochemicals from our food intake. A healthy, protein rich diet gives the body the building blocks it needs to make more adrenaline. Regular light exercise, a normal sleep pattern, a safe environment, and a healthy diet will help the brain recover.
~Lori Pate
B.A Psychology
University of Texas at Austin
Many people who have loved an addict have felt like they were going insane from all the chaos, worry, regret, fear, anger, confusion and more that comes with caring for someone who is in active drug addiction.
It seems reasonable that if the addict would just stop using, everything would return to normal and a happy life would resume. There is usually more going on though. There are chemical changes happening not just in the brain of the addict, but also in the brain of the loved one.
"What? I'm not the crazy one! The addict in my life is the only one going crazy, not me!"
That isn't always true. The chemical changes in the brain of a loved one should be understood to help speed recovery. Chemical changes in the brain of someone who is constantly in a state of stress, fear, anxiety and anger are not insignificant and are accompanied by withdrawal symptoms just like an addict who stops using.
The brain uses chemical messengers, called neurotransmitters, to allow us to feel feelings. Hunger, thirst, desire, satisfaction, frustration, fear and every human emotion are felt by the activity of chemical messengers in the brain. The most important messenger in this situation is norepinephrine (also known as adrenaline).
Norepinephrine is known as the "fight or flight" chemical messenger. This chemical is what causes us to feel a rush of energy when faced with a dangerous situation. Proper activity and levels of this messenger help humans get and keep themselves safe from harm. This chemical gives us the super-human abilities to outrun an attacker or think quickly in an emergency.
When a dangerous situation is perceived, norepinephrine is released in the brain. Receptors in the brain have "parking spaces" for the chemical to "park" in, which deliver the message. Once the chemical is plugged in, we feel a burst of energy, and a drive to get ourselves safe, take action, run or fight.
After the event is over, the messenger is released from the parking spot, and recycled to use again later. We begin to feel calmer and safer. The rush subsides. Heart rates return to normal. The feelings of fear and anxiety subside.
This happens all the time in all healthy humans.
But the human brain does not like constant stimulation. As soon as we are excited from a chemical message, the brain goes to work to return levels to normal. There are several mechanisms that work to do this. First, the chemicals are picked up by "reuptake" chemicals. Think of them like a tow truck. They are constantly floating around, looking for a chemical to tow back home. Recycling the chemicals restores levels to normal.
If constant stimulation occurs, causing constant chemical messages, recycling isn't enough. So the brain, in its effort to regain a normal balance, will begin destroying the chemicals permanently. If we are constantly in fight or flight mode, the brain determines that we have too many "fight or flight" messengers, so destroys them.
For someone who actually has too much adrenaline in their brain, this is helpful. But for someone who is constantly in a situation where they really are put under stress, and are triggered to respond to fear over and over, the destruction of their chemical messengers begins to cause a brain chemistry imbalance.
There is a third mechanism that the brain uses to restore balance. After recycling and destroying the messenger chemicals, if the brain is still being over-stimulated, it will destroy the parking spaces that the chemicals plug into. These are called dendrites. Once a dendrite is destroyed,it can not be repaired. It will never again receive the chemical message it was designed to receive. It is like yanking out the phone cord of a phone that won't stop ringing. It will never ring again.
When a loved one is in a constant state of worry and fear, the brain first experiences stimulation. It feels imperative for the loved one to take action, sometimes desperate action, in an attempt to remedy the fearful situation. If this stimulation continues day after day, the brain can not tolerate the constant stimulation and starts taking action to regain balance. Adrenaline is destroyed. Receptors are destroyed.
This is when the insanity of being a loved one really takes off. The loved one is no longer chemically balanced. Several things happen at this point:
****Things that used to signal danger no longer feel so dangerous. There simply aren't enough "danger" chemicals or receptors to accurately convey the appropriate feelings. At this point loved ones may begin accepting very dangerous situations as OK. For example they may feel it is a good idea to track down a loved one at a dealer's house, or accept a loved one who is violent and abusive in their home. They may make a choice to allow a dangerous person to be around their children. This is not because the loved one just isn't making good choices. More accurately it is because their brain chemistry has been altered by the constant chaos, and they no longer have the right feelings that would initiate safe choices. Unacceptable behavior doesn't feel as truly dangerous as it is. ****
Still, some loved ones are aware enough to know they should stop being in a dangerous situation. When the loved one stops contact with the addict in their life, that is when withdrawal sets in.
Withdrawal occurs when the brain is accustomed to a particular level of chemical activity, and that level is suddenly reduced.
A loved one who has become accustomed to constant stimulation from fear and concern, who then suddenly finds themselves in a safe, calm environment, will feel withdrawal because their brains have adjusted to a high level of adrenaline.
Withdrawal symptoms cause the loved one to feel quite uncomfortable. They will feel sad, have sleep problems, and feel that something is missing or just not quite right. This will cause the loved one to feel a desire to reach back out to the chaos they were accustomed to. The chaos will cause a hit of adrenaline to occur. This is the exact same cycle that an active drug addict goes through: stimulation followed by withdrawal. Withdrawal feelings cause a desire to be stimulated again, because the brain does not like extremes.
Because the loved one who has undergone chemical changes has lower than normal adrenaline activity in the brain, they will crave stimulation. They will feel an overwhelming desire to "check on" the addict, or to take a phone call even though they know it will not have the end result of a pleasant conversation. They will engage in arguments that they know have no possibility of being resolved while the addict in their life is still in active addiction. The will feel drawn back to the fear and worry they just escaped.
An extreme example of this is seen when a battered spouse continues to return to their abuser despite having other options.
This is the brain chemistry side of the chaos cycle of being a loved one.
So does it ever get better?
Yes! It absolutely can get better.
The human body can make more adrenaline, to replace what was destroyed when under constant stress. Not quickly, but slowly, it can replenish the levels of adrenaline so that the person feels normal, without needing chaos in their life to achieve a balance.
The human body makes neurochemicals from our food intake. A healthy, protein rich diet gives the body the building blocks it needs to make more adrenaline. Regular light exercise, a normal sleep pattern, a safe environment, and a healthy diet will help the brain recover.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
Thanks guys, I really needed to read this today, as I was trying to make sense of the same issue for awhile.
PS So glad to hear your life is going well Posie (restlesness and possibile brain chemical imbalance aside)
PS So glad to hear your life is going well Posie (restlesness and possibile brain chemical imbalance aside)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Haha, sesh, that gave me and my chemically imbalanced brain a good chuckle, thanks for that!
MeredithD, thanks SO much for that article.
It all makes sense. And it's interesting for me to note that these days when I'm exposed to chaos and drama my first response is to want to remove myself from it (though I recognize that there's an appeal, too). That coupled with some other factors (being happy to be at home, being able to manage my emotions) serves as encouragement to me that I'm getting better. I do believe "water seeks it's own level" in relationships, and I can see that I've made a healthier choice with this man. This article is also helpful because I can see how I learned some of these really intense responses a very, very long time ago.
Wow. I feel better. I have to sit with the discomfort of the restlessness. Sometimes it leaves me not knowing how to respond in the moment, and I certainly see it with me having to really stop and evaluate what I want before I can respond to even what seems like a simple question from him. He's supportive and patient with this; another good sign. But I do find, even with all of the time that we've spent together and the comfort levels we have, that I have to consistently remind myself that it's "one date at a time" because he's not emotionally abandoning me and part of me is not at all sure what to do with that! I've hesitated to call him my "boyfriend" because that has always had a painful connotation, it meant that I was gearing up to be hurt. I feel like I don't know how to do this "new" type of relationship. And indeed, it's all new territory.
As I write this I realize I'm grieving, too. More layers of being in touch with the sadness of my childhood and the relationships that I had when I was very good at abandoning myself because that's what I learned. Ouch.
So I guess I can remind myself it's "One day/date at a time," and "work the program, not the problem." And just like I had to choose to not pick up the phone to call my exA early in my recovery work, I have to choose to not go into the old "drama and chaos relationship dynamics" that were the only way I knew how to be prior to this.
Wow, what a ride. How do some of you manage these situations and/or feelings? I need reminders...
Gratefully,
posie
MeredithD, thanks SO much for that article.
It all makes sense. And it's interesting for me to note that these days when I'm exposed to chaos and drama my first response is to want to remove myself from it (though I recognize that there's an appeal, too). That coupled with some other factors (being happy to be at home, being able to manage my emotions) serves as encouragement to me that I'm getting better. I do believe "water seeks it's own level" in relationships, and I can see that I've made a healthier choice with this man. This article is also helpful because I can see how I learned some of these really intense responses a very, very long time ago.
Wow. I feel better. I have to sit with the discomfort of the restlessness. Sometimes it leaves me not knowing how to respond in the moment, and I certainly see it with me having to really stop and evaluate what I want before I can respond to even what seems like a simple question from him. He's supportive and patient with this; another good sign. But I do find, even with all of the time that we've spent together and the comfort levels we have, that I have to consistently remind myself that it's "one date at a time" because he's not emotionally abandoning me and part of me is not at all sure what to do with that! I've hesitated to call him my "boyfriend" because that has always had a painful connotation, it meant that I was gearing up to be hurt. I feel like I don't know how to do this "new" type of relationship. And indeed, it's all new territory.
As I write this I realize I'm grieving, too. More layers of being in touch with the sadness of my childhood and the relationships that I had when I was very good at abandoning myself because that's what I learned. Ouch.
So I guess I can remind myself it's "One day/date at a time," and "work the program, not the problem." And just like I had to choose to not pick up the phone to call my exA early in my recovery work, I have to choose to not go into the old "drama and chaos relationship dynamics" that were the only way I knew how to be prior to this.
Wow, what a ride. How do some of you manage these situations and/or feelings? I need reminders...
Gratefully,
posie
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Thanks Posie for the honest sharing of your recovery progress. I can certainly relate.
Thanks also to Meredith for bringing attention to that excellent article of our brains on drama. I can identify with that.
I read the article and cried. That was my married brain. Both marriages. My brain was constantly hitting the adrenaline over drama and chaos of finances, child support/custody issues (his), dysfunctional family dynamics, and reactions, reactions, reactions.
Prior to dating, I took the time/energy/thought to consider what I was looking for in a committed relationship. I am glad I did this exercise. Listing the qualities helped me rule out poor choices. The poor choices that were simply a different variety of the same old, same old.
Today I have a relationship with someone who is open, honest, forth-right and treats me with respect as an equal partner in life.
Having a guide to what I am looking for, has also served as a reminder when I feel something is missing. I go through my checklist: yep, all the qualities are still there. So why does it sometimes feel like something is missing? I now realize it is missing one thing: it is lacking drama.
We discuss finances as rational, responsible adults in a partnership. We discuss issues with child raising (mine) with an eye towards their future. We discuss career goals and how it will affect us as partners. Those are a few examples. In my past, those issues generated anger, resentment, control, chaos, etc.
I do still get an adrenaline rush in this relationship. I just realized that fact.
It comes in the form of adventures we take together. Our first date as a family was going to a black water filled river and jumping off a cliff into the river! It turned out to be a fun filled adventure that provided an adrenaline rush.
I appreciate this post. It has given me the opportunity to put some thoughts into perspective.
(((hugs)))
Thanks also to Meredith for bringing attention to that excellent article of our brains on drama. I can identify with that.
I read the article and cried. That was my married brain. Both marriages. My brain was constantly hitting the adrenaline over drama and chaos of finances, child support/custody issues (his), dysfunctional family dynamics, and reactions, reactions, reactions.
Prior to dating, I took the time/energy/thought to consider what I was looking for in a committed relationship. I am glad I did this exercise. Listing the qualities helped me rule out poor choices. The poor choices that were simply a different variety of the same old, same old.
Today I have a relationship with someone who is open, honest, forth-right and treats me with respect as an equal partner in life.
Having a guide to what I am looking for, has also served as a reminder when I feel something is missing. I go through my checklist: yep, all the qualities are still there. So why does it sometimes feel like something is missing? I now realize it is missing one thing: it is lacking drama.
We discuss finances as rational, responsible adults in a partnership. We discuss issues with child raising (mine) with an eye towards their future. We discuss career goals and how it will affect us as partners. Those are a few examples. In my past, those issues generated anger, resentment, control, chaos, etc.
I do still get an adrenaline rush in this relationship. I just realized that fact.
It comes in the form of adventures we take together. Our first date as a family was going to a black water filled river and jumping off a cliff into the river! It turned out to be a fun filled adventure that provided an adrenaline rush.
I appreciate this post. It has given me the opportunity to put some thoughts into perspective.
(((hugs)))
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Pelican,
I was struck by the parallels in my own journey. In fact, one of the reasons I wanted to have a relationship (I was FINALLY happily single, after all) is to share adventure in life, as opposed to drama. I can distinctly remember adding that to my list before I met my current significant other.
And good reminder, I will double-check my list. I, too, wrote it all down, with specifics.
posie
I was struck by the parallels in my own journey. In fact, one of the reasons I wanted to have a relationship (I was FINALLY happily single, after all) is to share adventure in life, as opposed to drama. I can distinctly remember adding that to my list before I met my current significant other.
And good reminder, I will double-check my list. I, too, wrote it all down, with specifics.
posie
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 110
I can relate to this idea so much. Over the last 20 yrs or so, I've done a lot of thinking/research into removing myself from the world of soap operas and relationship drama out there. You ever really LISTEN to many persons, who, no matter what, always have a crisis..and most of the time, it is of their own making?
So, in my recent involvement with xabf.. first, he was drinking much of the time, which itself guaranteed conflict. He wanted to drink (party on the weekends) and..well, folks here know the normal outcome of that. I am guessing, that as long as persons are partying, around others also drinking, the "good times" always was an escape from other problems. There is also a current discussion about how many of them wind up either cheating, two timing, jumping into another relationship (often before the current one is dealt with or done). Now, there is icing on the cake. Where the beginning was a "relationship" (with escalating problems).. it turns into an emotional 3-some.
One thing I noticed with the ex..seemed like a constant need for stimulation, deadlines, excitement, going somewhere...the whole shebang. It was an undercurrent, even when he was not drunk/drinking. So many times, I wanted to just shake him, and tell him to chill.. I could not keep up nor did I want to.
Now, that he is allegedly not drinking.. the same mindset seems to still be there. If his friend has an issue..he CAN'T step back from it. He makes it his problem. HAS to be "helping". Still somewhat hyper, or ready to get into more drama. If the drama isn't there..its like he has to create it. I wonder if there isn't a correlation on this, of addiction to stimulants (no, he hasn't been into drugs that I know of, since having known him).
I think it is like a vicious cycle where the alcohol is only one level of addiction.
I may still care about him, but I DON'T WANT to be part of the drama, and more important..I know I don't HAVE TO be.
So, in my recent involvement with xabf.. first, he was drinking much of the time, which itself guaranteed conflict. He wanted to drink (party on the weekends) and..well, folks here know the normal outcome of that. I am guessing, that as long as persons are partying, around others also drinking, the "good times" always was an escape from other problems. There is also a current discussion about how many of them wind up either cheating, two timing, jumping into another relationship (often before the current one is dealt with or done). Now, there is icing on the cake. Where the beginning was a "relationship" (with escalating problems).. it turns into an emotional 3-some.
One thing I noticed with the ex..seemed like a constant need for stimulation, deadlines, excitement, going somewhere...the whole shebang. It was an undercurrent, even when he was not drunk/drinking. So many times, I wanted to just shake him, and tell him to chill.. I could not keep up nor did I want to.
Now, that he is allegedly not drinking.. the same mindset seems to still be there. If his friend has an issue..he CAN'T step back from it. He makes it his problem. HAS to be "helping". Still somewhat hyper, or ready to get into more drama. If the drama isn't there..its like he has to create it. I wonder if there isn't a correlation on this, of addiction to stimulants (no, he hasn't been into drugs that I know of, since having known him).
I think it is like a vicious cycle where the alcohol is only one level of addiction.
I may still care about him, but I DON'T WANT to be part of the drama, and more important..I know I don't HAVE TO be.
Present
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: "Happy Rock" (Gladstone) Oregon
Posts: 1,252
I wanted to share with you, some of my "first response" when this article was posted (it was posted in Friends and Family of Substance Abusers; my mother had a diet pill/speed addiction when I was very young and I have other qualifiers too)
Posie...Thanks for the reminder on "work the program, not the problem." YES.
I wrote in my journal after meditation on Monday that it's not necessary and can even be counterproductive to go to the "basement" to try and clean up.
Before the spiritual work I've been doing, and before Al-Anon, I would try to do the traditional therapeutic approach of digging around through the muck of the past (basement) and like a trick of the negativity, it was miring me, surrounding me in energies where I did not feel safe; in a sense, I was reliving the past rather than healing the present. (Same adrenaline rush, different day??) It's more enlightening and productive to travel the pathways toward health.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3119161
There is the topic link. I'm wondering if we can sticky that post? The topic was titled The Brain Chemistry of Being a Loved One.
Originally Posted by MeredithD1
WOW. I...learned something...today that I didn't know...
I've been on several SSRI's and other neurotransmitter reuptake inhibiting meds since the early 80's, and this fresh (to me) perspective explains a lot...like, for example, how I managed to end up in stressful relationships that duplicated some of the stress I went through in childhood.
The usual explanation of "trying to work out the drama of childhood by picking a partner who is yada yada yada" never did seem to be enough to me. These words resonate to me more completely.
I've been on several SSRI's and other neurotransmitter reuptake inhibiting meds since the early 80's, and this fresh (to me) perspective explains a lot...like, for example, how I managed to end up in stressful relationships that duplicated some of the stress I went through in childhood.
The usual explanation of "trying to work out the drama of childhood by picking a partner who is yada yada yada" never did seem to be enough to me. These words resonate to me more completely.
I wrote in my journal after meditation on Monday that it's not necessary and can even be counterproductive to go to the "basement" to try and clean up.
Before the spiritual work I've been doing, and before Al-Anon, I would try to do the traditional therapeutic approach of digging around through the muck of the past (basement) and like a trick of the negativity, it was miring me, surrounding me in energies where I did not feel safe; in a sense, I was reliving the past rather than healing the present. (Same adrenaline rush, different day??) It's more enlightening and productive to travel the pathways toward health.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3119161
There is the topic link. I'm wondering if we can sticky that post? The topic was titled The Brain Chemistry of Being a Loved One.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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I think I experienced this at some point too Posie. For me, in hindsight, I think it was that I had not yet reached the point where I had clearly defined who and what I wanted exactly for a partner. I hadn't done enough work on identifying what it was I WANTED, as opposed to just accepting whomever came my way and caught my fancy, chalking it up to "fate," "love," "our destiny," being "soulmates," "needing" the person, or fill-in-the-blank, as the reason we were together. I think doing so is the building of a conscious awareness of self; defining who I truly am, as opposed to what I had learned from friends, family and society that I SHOULD be (via who I was in a relationship with and what kind of relationship I would be in). Not sure I've explained what I mean very well, but I hope so.
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I read a book about that same subject early on in my recovery. It was fascinating. Can't remember the name of it right now....
I also talked at length in therapy about the feelings you are having. Mine wasn't exactly relationship related because I wasn't in a relationship at the time, but it was still a general anxiety--seemingly over nothing. In fact, it seemed to surface just when things were going well. Sort of a feeling of dread because things were going too well.
What it came down to for me, was lifelong conditioning. Expecting the "other shoe to drop," self-sabotage due to that fear, and probably also the brain chemistry thing. It has gotten better, slowly. Meditation, communing with nature, gratitude, journaling--these have all been helpful in calming those anxious thoughts and fears.
L
I also talked at length in therapy about the feelings you are having. Mine wasn't exactly relationship related because I wasn't in a relationship at the time, but it was still a general anxiety--seemingly over nothing. In fact, it seemed to surface just when things were going well. Sort of a feeling of dread because things were going too well.
What it came down to for me, was lifelong conditioning. Expecting the "other shoe to drop," self-sabotage due to that fear, and probably also the brain chemistry thing. It has gotten better, slowly. Meditation, communing with nature, gratitude, journaling--these have all been helpful in calming those anxious thoughts and fears.
L
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L2L, thanks for that. I completely agree, and a big part of my journey has been about deciding what I WANT as opposed to simply accepting whatever came my way. Interestingly, I made a list of qualities that I wanted in a partner (having spent over a year working very hard on myself) and also made a list of what I wouldn't accept in a partner. That was very enlightening! I think what's happening for me is that as I get to know this man, a part of me is simply STUNNED to see that he's what I've been wanting in a partner...and as Meredith pointed out, double-checking the list has been very helpful.
And while that has been very helpful, it has also been anxiety-provoking, too. I mean, getting what I WANT also means that I have to grieve on another level, because I spent a whole lot of years not getting what I want, and not believing that I could EVER get what I want.
Now I'm getting what I want and asked for. I can see it on the list. I can hear it in his consistent words that match his actions. I keep talking to my therapist and sponsor and program friends and telling them about everything about this process for me (which includes his "imperfect" aspects, too) and I know I'm being honest with myself and them. I'm just freaked out at times. I mean, after my first date with him I told my sister, "I'm freaked the f**k out, because if this guy is for real, I might actually get what I've been saying I want!"
Wow.
LTD, thanks for that. Yes, there is a part of me that just can't believe things can be going this well. And that's not just in this relationship, it's in my life as a whole. I mean, the part of me that remembers the chaos and drama as "normal" is very busy questioning how I can be experiencing serenity while all of this stuff is going on. But you know what? I AM serene. And sometimes I just can't believe it, and certainly don't trust that can be the way I live my life long-term.
Recovery is magical, and I am so grateful. Yes, meditation, walking every morning, eating a diet rich in protein (thanks to what that article had to say), writing, keeping the focus on myself, going to therapy and meetings, focussing on gratitude...seems to keep it all coming back to me.
I'm amazed.
Another question: I'm wondering what ES&H people have about sharing their recovery journey with their non-program partners. Sometimes I struggle with what to tell him about just how anxiety-provoking it can be to consider that I can truly get what I want. Thoughts?
posie
And while that has been very helpful, it has also been anxiety-provoking, too. I mean, getting what I WANT also means that I have to grieve on another level, because I spent a whole lot of years not getting what I want, and not believing that I could EVER get what I want.
Now I'm getting what I want and asked for. I can see it on the list. I can hear it in his consistent words that match his actions. I keep talking to my therapist and sponsor and program friends and telling them about everything about this process for me (which includes his "imperfect" aspects, too) and I know I'm being honest with myself and them. I'm just freaked out at times. I mean, after my first date with him I told my sister, "I'm freaked the f**k out, because if this guy is for real, I might actually get what I've been saying I want!"
Wow.
LTD, thanks for that. Yes, there is a part of me that just can't believe things can be going this well. And that's not just in this relationship, it's in my life as a whole. I mean, the part of me that remembers the chaos and drama as "normal" is very busy questioning how I can be experiencing serenity while all of this stuff is going on. But you know what? I AM serene. And sometimes I just can't believe it, and certainly don't trust that can be the way I live my life long-term.
Recovery is magical, and I am so grateful. Yes, meditation, walking every morning, eating a diet rich in protein (thanks to what that article had to say), writing, keeping the focus on myself, going to therapy and meetings, focussing on gratitude...seems to keep it all coming back to me.
I'm amazed.
Another question: I'm wondering what ES&H people have about sharing their recovery journey with their non-program partners. Sometimes I struggle with what to tell him about just how anxiety-provoking it can be to consider that I can truly get what I want. Thoughts?
posie
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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And while that has been very helpful, it has also been anxiety-provoking, too. I mean, getting what I WANT also means that I have to grieve on another level, because I spent a whole lot of years not getting what I want, and not believing that I could EVER get what I want...
Another question: I'm wondering what ES&H people have about sharing their recovery journey with their non-program partners. Sometimes I struggle with what to tell him about just how anxiety-provoking it can be to consider that I can truly get what I want. Thoughts?
Another question: I'm wondering what ES&H people have about sharing their recovery journey with their non-program partners. Sometimes I struggle with what to tell him about just how anxiety-provoking it can be to consider that I can truly get what I want. Thoughts?
Suffice it to say, though, that I came to a point in my journey, to a sense of Acceptance, where I have stopped longing for something other than what I have. It's not that I don't want anything, it's not that I am now apathetic, it's that I am satisfied with what is. It might have a lot to do with age too though. After age 40, it seems I became more complacent, not sure exactly why.
I can look back on my childhood now and see that although I grew up in an alcoholic home, in poverty, without any real guidelines or boundaries, with abuse and neglect daily, I actually had a good childhood. Relatively speaking. I can see very clearly that other people, people I thought had it BETTER than me, actually had it (and have it) much, much worse. The world is not a warm, inviting, comforting place. It is harsh. And there are millions upon millions of people who have had it much worse than me. Just by having been born in the USA, I have been more fortunate than most people of the world. And for me, Acceptance of these truths has been what has brought me Peace. I got to that place by practicing Gratitude. And I got to Gratitude by believing in my Higher Power. It's a process.
I'm not saying my life is perfect, because there are many things I would like to change about it, it's just that I am a different person. I think that when I stopped being needy, started taking care of ME FIRST, stopped longing for people to give me what I thought I needed, and got busy DOING what was going to get me there, everything just slowly started falling into place. I am learning that things do not have to be perfect, that BUYING things will not "fix" the "problem."
As for sharing my journey and my recovery with people who are not also doing the same thing, I have not found that those people understand what I am talking about, or even where I am in life. I no longer need people to understand, though. I am able to validate myself. But that is from doing Boundary work. I know where others stop and I start and I can let others find their own way. It helps to participate in a Recovery community on a regular basis. Or reading Recovery and similar books.
I hope something here is helpful to someone.
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"As for sharing my journey and my recovery with people who are not also doing the same thing, I have not found that those people understand what I am talking about, or even where I am in life. I no longer need people to understand, though. I am able to validate myself. But that is from doing Boundary work. I know where others stop and I start and I can let others find their own way."
You know, L2L, I had just come to this thought over the weekend! Yes, what matters most to me is that I'm taking care of myself (with my HP's help) and that my partner is kind, compassionate, and respectful of my process. Respect is key. It's what I didn't have in my childhood, and what I give myself heaping doses of, every chance I get. And that includes respecting my recovery process, my childhood, etc. As long as I understand what I need, and understand that I can give that to myself, I don't "need" anyone else to understand. And at the same time I get to have my feelings, to decide how I will express them, and what I need to give myself with regard to my feelings.
Cool.
Thanks so much,
posie
You know, L2L, I had just come to this thought over the weekend! Yes, what matters most to me is that I'm taking care of myself (with my HP's help) and that my partner is kind, compassionate, and respectful of my process. Respect is key. It's what I didn't have in my childhood, and what I give myself heaping doses of, every chance I get. And that includes respecting my recovery process, my childhood, etc. As long as I understand what I need, and understand that I can give that to myself, I don't "need" anyone else to understand. And at the same time I get to have my feelings, to decide how I will express them, and what I need to give myself with regard to my feelings.
Cool.
Thanks so much,
posie
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Thank you posie...and thank you every one else who posted on this thread. I've been struggling a lot with the issues brought up here lately, and have found that I need to get back to my serenity and acceptance before I lose myself in that vortex of wanting someone to give to me what I can give myself. This is my second experience of dating a non-alcoholic, post divorce with XAH, but this time around, I am finding myself more fragile and unbalanced than the first time around...so it must be an indication that I need to work on recovery a bit more.
Thanks again. I am always pleasantly surprised to find that SR continues to bring me wisdom and strength, now two years after my separation from the alcoholic in my life.
Thanks again. I am always pleasantly surprised to find that SR continues to bring me wisdom and strength, now two years after my separation from the alcoholic in my life.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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NoDay, I used to think that the fact that a potential partner was NOT alcoholic or addicted meant they were healthy. But one BF I had, who was neither of the above, made me AS SICK or SICKER than the worst alcoholic addict BF I had. I learned that "not alcoholic or addicted" was just the BEGINNING of learning how to choose a partner. I've had to be in many relationships to learn so many things. But the BF I have now brings me peace, not confusion, by his actions and that makes all the difference.
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