Heroin vs. Alcohol
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Heroin vs. Alcohol
I'm really working hard to establish my boundaries. I've been posting in the family forum for substance abusers, but now I know my AS is both an addict and an alcoholic. I've always known addicts can't drink. Alcohol is a drug. Alcohol can trigger a drug relapse. It lowers inhibitions. All that. And I know that my son has abused alcohol in the past. But now it's reached the point that my son can't NOT drink simply because he's an addict; he can't drink period, because he's also an alcoholic. And I think he's just starting to realize this for himself.
So, here's the new boundary struggle. I read in this forum how many spouses have set the boundary that if the A drinks, or appears drunk, in front of them, they will leave. Go to their Mom's house, a friend's house. Whatever.
But what boundary options are there, with alcohol, when it's your son? Certainly, if he drinks, I'm not the one who's going to leave.
Do I, as the mother, have any other boundary options here aside from having to kick him out?
Just as a spouse may not want to get a divorce or kick her husband out because he drinks, I don't really want to have to do that either. Are there any other moms/dads out there who have boundaries set about their child drinking that are different than kicking the child out of the house?
Obviously, repeated behavior would be a whole other thing, and I would have deal with that when the time came.
My boundary with drugs is no drugs in the house. No using in the house. The consequence is that he would have to move out. My boundary consequence is that he needs to move out because we've done this drug relapse thing too many times. His DOC, his personal demon, is heroin. Heroin is an epidemic in my community. The teen/20something death rate is staggering. I am so terrified of him dying from a heroin overdose that I will do nothing that makes it easy or comfortable for him to use heroin.
Now the alcohol. He's been clean from heroin for 9 months, and that is a staggering amount of time. He was homeless, sleeping in dope houses, shooting up several times a day.
But now I find out he's been drinking. That he's clearly an alcoholic. I'm not sure if he's fully accepted this or not.
So, on one hand, I want to support him for working so hard to get off the heroin... but he's been drinking more and more to keep that under control it seems.
He does go to meetings. He does have a sponsor. He's come clean to his recovery group about the drinking.
This is difficult for me to navigate. I support the 9 months clean from heroin, but now there's the alcoholism. I don't want to negate the work he's done with heroin, so in my mind, the way I'm thinking right now, is that I want to give him some "time" to get a grip on the drinking.
I REALLY need some direction here. I don't want to enable. I want to set clear boundaries. I want to be firm on the alcoholism, but I don't want to negate his recovery work with heroin.
And yes, I get that he's not really in recovery if he's drinking. So I guess I mean that I don't want to negate his abstinence from heroin.
Please share your ES&H with this confused mom. Thank you.
So, here's the new boundary struggle. I read in this forum how many spouses have set the boundary that if the A drinks, or appears drunk, in front of them, they will leave. Go to their Mom's house, a friend's house. Whatever.
But what boundary options are there, with alcohol, when it's your son? Certainly, if he drinks, I'm not the one who's going to leave.
Do I, as the mother, have any other boundary options here aside from having to kick him out?
Just as a spouse may not want to get a divorce or kick her husband out because he drinks, I don't really want to have to do that either. Are there any other moms/dads out there who have boundaries set about their child drinking that are different than kicking the child out of the house?
Obviously, repeated behavior would be a whole other thing, and I would have deal with that when the time came.
My boundary with drugs is no drugs in the house. No using in the house. The consequence is that he would have to move out. My boundary consequence is that he needs to move out because we've done this drug relapse thing too many times. His DOC, his personal demon, is heroin. Heroin is an epidemic in my community. The teen/20something death rate is staggering. I am so terrified of him dying from a heroin overdose that I will do nothing that makes it easy or comfortable for him to use heroin.
Now the alcohol. He's been clean from heroin for 9 months, and that is a staggering amount of time. He was homeless, sleeping in dope houses, shooting up several times a day.
But now I find out he's been drinking. That he's clearly an alcoholic. I'm not sure if he's fully accepted this or not.
So, on one hand, I want to support him for working so hard to get off the heroin... but he's been drinking more and more to keep that under control it seems.
He does go to meetings. He does have a sponsor. He's come clean to his recovery group about the drinking.
This is difficult for me to navigate. I support the 9 months clean from heroin, but now there's the alcoholism. I don't want to negate the work he's done with heroin, so in my mind, the way I'm thinking right now, is that I want to give him some "time" to get a grip on the drinking.
I REALLY need some direction here. I don't want to enable. I want to set clear boundaries. I want to be firm on the alcoholism, but I don't want to negate his recovery work with heroin.
And yes, I get that he's not really in recovery if he's drinking. So I guess I mean that I don't want to negate his abstinence from heroin.
Please share your ES&H with this confused mom. Thank you.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Hi there Beingstill!
I think it's important to remember that alcohol IS a drug - therefore, your boundary of no drugs in the house. No using in the house. - is still very much valid for alcohol.
Giving our loved ones time (a cushion to fall on!) to come to terms with their drinking serves no purpose other than to make us feel better. Make us feel loving and compassionate. But that love and compassion... is enabling, and it is not healthy or helpful for the addict.
Do you go to Al-anon? I have found it amazingly helpful to help me understand my role and responsibilities in loving my alcoholic family members.
I'm glad your here!
Shannon
I think it's important to remember that alcohol IS a drug - therefore, your boundary of no drugs in the house. No using in the house. - is still very much valid for alcohol.
Giving our loved ones time (a cushion to fall on!) to come to terms with their drinking serves no purpose other than to make us feel better. Make us feel loving and compassionate. But that love and compassion... is enabling, and it is not healthy or helpful for the addict.
Do you go to Al-anon? I have found it amazingly helpful to help me understand my role and responsibilities in loving my alcoholic family members.
I'm glad your here!
Shannon
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Alcohol is a drug, it leads many back to their drug or choice. My exabf always drank to an extreme when he was trying to stay off of crack. It never worked, as his drinking increased it lowered his inhabitions and back to crack he went.
Your boundry is confusing to me, it is ok to use drugs, just not in your home? Yet, it is ok to drink in your home?
If I remember correctly your son is of adult age, and working, so, why isn't he on his own? Might be time for him to manage his own life, and for you to get on with yours. You can set up every barrier known to man and if he wants to use drugs he will.
Keep going to meetings it should help you to sort all of this out.
Your boundry is confusing to me, it is ok to use drugs, just not in your home? Yet, it is ok to drink in your home?
If I remember correctly your son is of adult age, and working, so, why isn't he on his own? Might be time for him to manage his own life, and for you to get on with yours. You can set up every barrier known to man and if he wants to use drugs he will.
Keep going to meetings it should help you to sort all of this out.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
Dollydo~
No, it's not okay for him to use drugs at all, but I thought we couldn't state that as a boundary. Isn't saying he can't use drugs, period, me telling him what to do? So that's why I said it's not okay for him to use drugs if he lives with me. If he doesn't live with me, then he can do what he wants, whether I like it or not. So, if he wants to live in my house, he can't do drugs.
Yes, he's working. About a month now. Paying probation costs and attorney fees. Before this, my son hadn't lived with me for six years, due to his addiction issues. Last year, I had no contact with him at all until October, when he came crawling on his hands and knees, begging for help. I didn't even know if he was alive. I always told him that I would help him with rehab and support his recovery if he ever wanted help.
I allowed him to come back to live with me while he went through a follow-up IOP. He did regular drug testing, but they never tested for alcohol. I never even thought about alcohol. When the IOP ended last month he was able to start a job.
So he's only been in my house for the last 6 months. Before that, it was 6 years ago.
I guess I'm just trying to navigate the waters, and how to be firm with this new alcohol issue without negating the heroin part of it. I literally just found this out a day ago, so my head is still foggy.
Thanx.
No, it's not okay for him to use drugs at all, but I thought we couldn't state that as a boundary. Isn't saying he can't use drugs, period, me telling him what to do? So that's why I said it's not okay for him to use drugs if he lives with me. If he doesn't live with me, then he can do what he wants, whether I like it or not. So, if he wants to live in my house, he can't do drugs.
Yes, he's working. About a month now. Paying probation costs and attorney fees. Before this, my son hadn't lived with me for six years, due to his addiction issues. Last year, I had no contact with him at all until October, when he came crawling on his hands and knees, begging for help. I didn't even know if he was alive. I always told him that I would help him with rehab and support his recovery if he ever wanted help.
I allowed him to come back to live with me while he went through a follow-up IOP. He did regular drug testing, but they never tested for alcohol. I never even thought about alcohol. When the IOP ended last month he was able to start a job.
So he's only been in my house for the last 6 months. Before that, it was 6 years ago.
I guess I'm just trying to navigate the waters, and how to be firm with this new alcohol issue without negating the heroin part of it. I literally just found this out a day ago, so my head is still foggy.
Thanx.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Well, alcohol will kill him too. It usually just takes a little longer then heroine.
First, I don't think any decision you make is really going to have any affect at all on whether or not he uses heroine again, or quits drinking, or seeks real recovery.
Having said that here is another way of looking at it.
Alcoholism increases his risk of heroine relapse.
Lets say you put a boundary in place for your home about no drinking or drugging at home or at all. Him respecting that it soooo unlikely but lets go with it for a minute.....not drinking isn't going to increase his risk of heroine relapse. Could you have this false worry/fear because you don't want to make a boundary that is going to drive him out of your house and your life? Which I get. Well not totally because I can't begin to imagine the heartbreak of having an addicted child. It is my biggest fear.
to you. I imagine you need one or a hundred.
ETA: Your boundaries are about what you'll accept in your life. You can say you can't drink/drug *at any time* if you want to live under my roof. That isn't telling him what to do. That is you making boundaries for your own house and own life. He can make his own choice. Remain clean and in recovery and live at mom's house. Choose to use and live somewhere else. I imagine that is kind of scary.
First, I don't think any decision you make is really going to have any affect at all on whether or not he uses heroine again, or quits drinking, or seeks real recovery.
Having said that here is another way of looking at it.
Alcoholism increases his risk of heroine relapse.
Lets say you put a boundary in place for your home about no drinking or drugging at home or at all. Him respecting that it soooo unlikely but lets go with it for a minute.....not drinking isn't going to increase his risk of heroine relapse. Could you have this false worry/fear because you don't want to make a boundary that is going to drive him out of your house and your life? Which I get. Well not totally because I can't begin to imagine the heartbreak of having an addicted child. It is my biggest fear.
to you. I imagine you need one or a hundred. ETA: Your boundaries are about what you'll accept in your life. You can say you can't drink/drug *at any time* if you want to live under my roof. That isn't telling him what to do. That is you making boundaries for your own house and own life. He can make his own choice. Remain clean and in recovery and live at mom's house. Choose to use and live somewhere else. I imagine that is kind of scary.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by BeingStill 
I'm really working hard to establish my boundaries. I've been posting in the family forum for substance abusers, but now I know my AS is both an addict and an alcoholic. I've always known addicts can't drink. Alcohol is a drug. Alcohol can trigger a drug relapse. It lowers inhibitions. All that. And I know that my son has abused alcohol in the past. But now it's reached the point that my son can't NOT drink simply because he's an addict; he can't drink period, because he's also an alcoholic. And I think he's just starting to realize this for himself.
So, here's the new boundary struggle. I read in this forum how many spouses have set the boundary that if the A drinks, or appears drunk, in front of them, they will leave. Go to their Mom's house, a friend's house. Whatever.
But what boundary options are there, with alcohol, when it's your son? Certainly, if he drinks, I'm not the one who's going to leave.
Do I, as the mother, have any other boundary options here aside from having to kick him out?
Just as a spouse may not want to get a divorce or kick her husband out because he drinks, I don't really want to have to do that either. Are there any other moms/dads out there who have boundaries set about their child drinking that are different than kicking the child out of the house?
Obviously, repeated behavior would be a whole other thing, and I would have deal with that when the time came.
My boundary with drugs is no drugs in the house. No using in the house. The consequence is that he would have to move out. My boundary consequence is that he needs to move out because we've done this drug relapse thing too many times. His DOC, his personal demon, is heroin. Heroin is an epidemic in my community. The teen/20something death rate is staggering. I am so terrified of him dying from a heroin overdose that I will do nothing that makes it easy or comfortable for him to use heroin.
Now the alcohol. He's been clean from heroin for 9 months, and that is a staggering amount of time. He was homeless, sleeping in dope houses, shooting up several times a day.
But now I find out he's been drinking. That he's clearly an alcoholic. I'm not sure if he's fully accepted this or not.
So, on one hand, I want to support him for working so hard to get off the heroin... but he's been drinking more and more to keep that under control it seems.
He does go to meetings. He does have a sponsor. He's come clean to his recovery group about the drinking.
This is difficult for me to navigate. I support the 9 months clean from heroin, but now there's the alcoholism. I don't want to negate the work he's done with heroin, so in my mind, the way I'm thinking right now, is that I want to give him some "time" to get a grip on the drinking.
I REALLY need some direction here. I don't want to enable. I want to set clear boundaries. I want to be firm on the alcoholism, but I don't want to negate his recovery work with heroin.
And yes, I get that he's not really in recovery if he's drinking. So I guess I mean that I don't want to negate his abstinence from heroin.
Please share your ES&H with this confused mom. Thank you.
So, here's the new boundary struggle. I read in this forum how many spouses have set the boundary that if the A drinks, or appears drunk, in front of them, they will leave. Go to their Mom's house, a friend's house. Whatever.
But what boundary options are there, with alcohol, when it's your son? Certainly, if he drinks, I'm not the one who's going to leave.
Do I, as the mother, have any other boundary options here aside from having to kick him out?
Just as a spouse may not want to get a divorce or kick her husband out because he drinks, I don't really want to have to do that either. Are there any other moms/dads out there who have boundaries set about their child drinking that are different than kicking the child out of the house?
Obviously, repeated behavior would be a whole other thing, and I would have deal with that when the time came.
My boundary with drugs is no drugs in the house. No using in the house. The consequence is that he would have to move out. My boundary consequence is that he needs to move out because we've done this drug relapse thing too many times. His DOC, his personal demon, is heroin. Heroin is an epidemic in my community. The teen/20something death rate is staggering. I am so terrified of him dying from a heroin overdose that I will do nothing that makes it easy or comfortable for him to use heroin.
Now the alcohol. He's been clean from heroin for 9 months, and that is a staggering amount of time. He was homeless, sleeping in dope houses, shooting up several times a day.
But now I find out he's been drinking. That he's clearly an alcoholic. I'm not sure if he's fully accepted this or not.
So, on one hand, I want to support him for working so hard to get off the heroin... but he's been drinking more and more to keep that under control it seems.
He does go to meetings. He does have a sponsor. He's come clean to his recovery group about the drinking.
This is difficult for me to navigate. I support the 9 months clean from heroin, but now there's the alcoholism. I don't want to negate the work he's done with heroin, so in my mind, the way I'm thinking right now, is that I want to give him some "time" to get a grip on the drinking.
I REALLY need some direction here. I don't want to enable. I want to set clear boundaries. I want to be firm on the alcoholism, but I don't want to negate his recovery work with heroin.
And yes, I get that he's not really in recovery if he's drinking. So I guess I mean that I don't want to negate his abstinence from heroin.
Please share your ES&H with this confused mom. Thank you.
A drug is a drug.....they both have the same end result.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
I set my bounderies with my exabf. If you use crack again, you will move out of my house. I will no longer support you in any way whatsoever.
He used (not in my home), I enforced my boundry. He created the situation and he would have to deal with the consequences.
My bounderies were for me, to protect me, my sanity, I was not telling him what to do, I was telling him what behavior I would not accept.
You have to do what you are comfortable with, it is totally up to you.
He used (not in my home), I enforced my boundry. He created the situation and he would have to deal with the consequences.
My bounderies were for me, to protect me, my sanity, I was not telling him what to do, I was telling him what behavior I would not accept.
You have to do what you are comfortable with, it is totally up to you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
Thanx, All. Your responses truly do help.
Dollydo, you say I need to do what makes me comfortable. That's really an oxymoron for all of us, isn't it??? 'Cuz it all feels so sh***y no matter what we do! Ugh. The lesser of two evils. It all sucks rocks. My boundary is that I can't live with someone who is actively using, whether it's in my house, my driveway or Susie Sunshine's basement. I can't watch someone kill himself and live with it. Which is what alcoholism will do, too...
Thumper, I needed to hear the simple, straight-forward fact that alcoholism increases his risk of heroin relapse. So drinking is really a risk factor for the heroin, which is my ultimate greatest fear. Because heroin will kill him quickly. For certain.
Spawn, yes, same boundaries makes sense. Especially if I look at alcohol as putting him back on the road to heroin.
I'm just so unbelievably terrified that I will have to bury my son like all the other parents in my groups. I would rather cut off body parts than have to do that. As a mom, I have to fight against the forces of nature which drive me to want to hold him, protect him, shield him, help him, etc.
Addiction is truly the work of the devil.
Dollydo, you say I need to do what makes me comfortable. That's really an oxymoron for all of us, isn't it??? 'Cuz it all feels so sh***y no matter what we do! Ugh. The lesser of two evils. It all sucks rocks. My boundary is that I can't live with someone who is actively using, whether it's in my house, my driveway or Susie Sunshine's basement. I can't watch someone kill himself and live with it. Which is what alcoholism will do, too...
Thumper, I needed to hear the simple, straight-forward fact that alcoholism increases his risk of heroin relapse. So drinking is really a risk factor for the heroin, which is my ultimate greatest fear. Because heroin will kill him quickly. For certain.
Spawn, yes, same boundaries makes sense. Especially if I look at alcohol as putting him back on the road to heroin.
I'm just so unbelievably terrified that I will have to bury my son like all the other parents in my groups. I would rather cut off body parts than have to do that. As a mom, I have to fight against the forces of nature which drive me to want to hold him, protect him, shield him, help him, etc.
Addiction is truly the work of the devil.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by BeingStill
But what boundary options are there, with alcohol, when it's your son? Certainly, if he drinks, I'm not the one who's going to leave.
She was out the door in less than 5 minutes.
I have a zero tolerance policy.
It wasn't until after I had kicked her out and started cleaning her room that I realized the extent of what she was doing under my nose.
4 cases of empty beer bottles were shoved to the back and covered with clothing in the closets.
Never mind the roaches and clip in the ashtray.
It is possible to love a child to death because I watched it unfold over the years where I live.
I won't do that to my AD.
Today I give her the dignity to live her life the way she wants, and I no longer take a front row seat to her addictions and insanity.
As a long-term recovering addict, I can tell you that if the alcohol isn't addressed as seriously as the heroin, he will walk all over you.
Just my two cents!
Sending you hugs of support!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
You said,
As a long-term recovering addict, I can tell you that if the alcohol isn't addressed as seriously as the heroin, he will walk all over you.
Thank you, Freedom. It took me a couple days to digest the fact that my son has been secretly drinking for months. It was like my brain was so focused on drugs that alcohol through me for a loop. Yes, I understand that alcohol is a drug.
But... and I'm ashamed to admit this... compared to heroin and what it did to my son and where it took him... alcoholism seemed light-weight.
But I will trust in the HP of this forum and the wisdom of long-term recovering addicts... and I will treat the alcohol the same as the heroin. My boundaries are the same. A pint of vodka or a syringe... same consequence.
Thank you, Freedom. This is a wonderful forum because a mom like me, who never touched drugs in her life, can receive ES&H from a mom like you, who knows the hell our children face.
As a long-term recovering addict, I can tell you that if the alcohol isn't addressed as seriously as the heroin, he will walk all over you.
Thank you, Freedom. It took me a couple days to digest the fact that my son has been secretly drinking for months. It was like my brain was so focused on drugs that alcohol through me for a loop. Yes, I understand that alcohol is a drug.
But... and I'm ashamed to admit this... compared to heroin and what it did to my son and where it took him... alcoholism seemed light-weight.
But I will trust in the HP of this forum and the wisdom of long-term recovering addicts... and I will treat the alcohol the same as the heroin. My boundaries are the same. A pint of vodka or a syringe... same consequence.
Thank you, Freedom. This is a wonderful forum because a mom like me, who never touched drugs in her life, can receive ES&H from a mom like you, who knows the hell our children face.
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