Can problem drinkers drink without problems?
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Can problem drinkers drink without problems?
One of my close friends is a counselor and she keeps telling me that I'm not seeing things the right way. She tells me that my partner doesn't need to abstain from drinking, but should drink in moderation. That is, it would be fine to have a glass of wine with dinner, but not a bottle. In my world, that scenario is a fantasy. It doesn't happen. Open the bottle to pour a glass, the bottle is gone in an hour. Then another.
It is true that my partner can and does go for periods without drinking, usually after some big blow-up between us. A period can be two weeks, it can be three months. The thing is, it always happens again.
So, friend tells me that it's not so important that partner stops drinking (I have accepted that I have nothing to do with his choice to drink, so I have freed myself from that guilt). It's important, friend says, that my partner *mostly* doesn't drink, that the good outweighs the bad; that he makes good-faith efforts to control his drinking, and nothing more.
On one hand this all makes sense, otoh, it seems like I can't establish and maintain firm boundaries if I see everything as human error and make exceptions.
The ideas she expresses, are those in line, or not, with some thinking about living with alcoholics? I'm new to acknowledging that I am in fact choosing to live with one, although I've been living it for years.
It is true that my partner can and does go for periods without drinking, usually after some big blow-up between us. A period can be two weeks, it can be three months. The thing is, it always happens again.
So, friend tells me that it's not so important that partner stops drinking (I have accepted that I have nothing to do with his choice to drink, so I have freed myself from that guilt). It's important, friend says, that my partner *mostly* doesn't drink, that the good outweighs the bad; that he makes good-faith efforts to control his drinking, and nothing more.
On one hand this all makes sense, otoh, it seems like I can't establish and maintain firm boundaries if I see everything as human error and make exceptions.
The ideas she expresses, are those in line, or not, with some thinking about living with alcoholics? I'm new to acknowledging that I am in fact choosing to live with one, although I've been living it for years.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
I would think your friend (counselor) is blowing smoke up your hiney...
Obviously he or she is NOT educated about alcoholism, like alot of people
in this world today.
Kind of like some saying, it's not drug, the doctor prescribed them to me...
Educate yourself, go to Alanon, read this site, go to a AA class and listen
to others, it will open your eyes up and you will learn, that it is just smoke
being blew up your hiney....
There is NO such thing, for a problem drinker (alcoholic) to have a few drinks
and maintain.
((In my world, that scenario is a fantasy)) - Alcoholics will cause you to have fantasy's
but the choice is yours if you want to live in the real world and understand
that alcoholism is a progressive diesase....
Obviously he or she is NOT educated about alcoholism, like alot of people
in this world today.
Kind of like some saying, it's not drug, the doctor prescribed them to me...
Educate yourself, go to Alanon, read this site, go to a AA class and listen
to others, it will open your eyes up and you will learn, that it is just smoke
being blew up your hiney....
There is NO such thing, for a problem drinker (alcoholic) to have a few drinks
and maintain.
((In my world, that scenario is a fantasy)) - Alcoholics will cause you to have fantasy's
but the choice is yours if you want to live in the real world and understand
that alcoholism is a progressive diesase....
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,391
What are your boundaries?
Personally, I don't want people around me who get drunk. I don't mean people cannot have a drink or two around me. That doesn't bother me at all. I cannot and will not tolerate falling down drunk. I'm not passing judgment on others when I talk about this boundary either.
If someone, drunk or sober, yells at me, I leave.
Personally, I don't want people around me who get drunk. I don't mean people cannot have a drink or two around me. That doesn't bother me at all. I cannot and will not tolerate falling down drunk. I'm not passing judgment on others when I talk about this boundary either.
If someone, drunk or sober, yells at me, I leave.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
If they could, they would. I tried to do it for four and a half years, in a systematic way with the help of a support group. Wasn't happening, won't ever happen.
Your friend doesn't know a whole lot about alcoholism.
Your friend doesn't know a whole lot about alcoholism.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Are all problem drinkers alcoholics?
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by m1k3 
Are all problem drinkers alcoholics?
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
The AA definition includes a mental obsession to drink when you aren't drinking, and a "craving" that compels you to drink more once you have any alcohol.
Some people overdrink "situationally" but are capable of controlling it when they want to. I could control it for discrete periods when I needed to, but I consistently slipped back into my pattern, which was to drink as much as I wanted (and I wanted a LOT).
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Lexie's description is also my understanding. It is about the effects of the drinking on someone's life more than the actual intake (in measured amounts) as well as the ability to stop once started. I was having a conversation yesterday with the RAH about the "switch" that some people have that tells them "enough already, put the drink down" and how he doesn't have that switch. It is genetic? Is it a misplaced strand of DNA somewhere? Or is it a way of thinking...because he drank to get drunk. That was his mind set. He liked being intoxicated. Nature vs. nurture debate in regards to addictions. I on the other hand can drink one or two drinks and stop there. I don't like being intoxicated and out of control. Plus, it makes me sick to my stomach to have more than two drinks at one time. I get nauseous. But...I have a long standing on and off again relationship with cigarettes, which is a very powerful addiction. One cigarette and BAM! I am hooked again as if no time ever went by. To stay a non-smoker, I must NOT PICK UP THAT CIGARETTE (said for emphasis, not shouting!).
I think your counselor friend has good intentions but a misunderstanding of addictions, which is not uncommon. Addictions specialties tend to be more of a focus area or certificate program aside from a general counseling education program.
I think your counselor friend has good intentions but a misunderstanding of addictions, which is not uncommon. Addictions specialties tend to be more of a focus area or certificate program aside from a general counseling education program.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Ogilve
One of my close friends is a counselor and she keeps telling me that I'm not seeing things the right way. She tells me that my partner doesn't need to abstain from drinking, but should drink in moderation.
‪Craig Ferguson Talks About Life As A Recovering Alcoholic‬‏ - YouTube
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Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Lexie, thanks for answering, that was good.
Tuffgirl, I always kind of thought the way you did that an alcoholic drinks to get drunk, that that was the goal.
The nature/nuture think is interesting. My AW went for several years without drinking and not doing a program. What I hadn't realized was she simply substituted sleeping pill for booze until they started to get out of hand. So, I'm not so sure it is an alcohol thing but an addictive personality thing.
And oh yeah I understand the issues with tobacco. Long time snuff dipper here. Haven't had any in a little over 13 years. But during the last 6 months I sure have been eyeing the snuff cans when I'm in the store.
Tuffgirl, I always kind of thought the way you did that an alcoholic drinks to get drunk, that that was the goal.
The nature/nuture think is interesting. My AW went for several years without drinking and not doing a program. What I hadn't realized was she simply substituted sleeping pill for booze until they started to get out of hand. So, I'm not so sure it is an alcohol thing but an addictive personality thing.
And oh yeah I understand the issues with tobacco. Long time snuff dipper here. Haven't had any in a little over 13 years. But during the last 6 months I sure have been eyeing the snuff cans when I'm in the store.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
I struggle with this one! My AH attends a program that goes for either total abstinence or moderation. He chooses moderation.
After he got out from the hospital we had a breathalyzer put on his car (no DUI, but my boundry not to be liable (emotionally and financially) for his drinking and driving). So he's figured out how much he can drink each evening in order to be able to start his car in the morning and he's maintained this for 3 years. On the weekends he drinks about the same amount, but starts earlier in the afternoon. He gets slightly visibly impaired, but hard to know how drunk he may be, he's a very good actor.
He progressed very slowly (decades) to the crisis that ended up with him being hospitalized, and I know it is a progressive disease, but now I am wondering if he could maintain this level of drinking for a long time, and if he's not visibly drunk, is this my problem and not his problem.
Edit: I do know this is his problem, but should I have an issue with it if he is working, contributing, kind, etc., and occasionally tipsy? I attend Alanon so I know I shouldn't be monitoring his drinking and just get on with me and my life and being happy, but it's hard to not notice the slurs or 3rd trip to the washroom in half an hour or the smell of vodka passing you in the hallway. Why does it still get to me so much?
Lots of confusion here!
After he got out from the hospital we had a breathalyzer put on his car (no DUI, but my boundry not to be liable (emotionally and financially) for his drinking and driving). So he's figured out how much he can drink each evening in order to be able to start his car in the morning and he's maintained this for 3 years. On the weekends he drinks about the same amount, but starts earlier in the afternoon. He gets slightly visibly impaired, but hard to know how drunk he may be, he's a very good actor.
He progressed very slowly (decades) to the crisis that ended up with him being hospitalized, and I know it is a progressive disease, but now I am wondering if he could maintain this level of drinking for a long time, and if he's not visibly drunk, is this my problem and not his problem.
Edit: I do know this is his problem, but should I have an issue with it if he is working, contributing, kind, etc., and occasionally tipsy? I attend Alanon so I know I shouldn't be monitoring his drinking and just get on with me and my life and being happy, but it's hard to not notice the slurs or 3rd trip to the washroom in half an hour or the smell of vodka passing you in the hallway. Why does it still get to me so much?
Lots of confusion here!
Last edited by wellnowwhat; 07-18-2011 at 10:11 AM. Reason: clarity
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
wellnowwhat, welcome to SR.
First thing, his drinking is his, problem or not. The 3 c's are a really big thing here for a good reason. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.
The only thing that you can work on is yourself.
From my experience I have found both Al-Anon and this site to be huge helps. There are large amounts of wisdom and experience here for you to take advantage of. I am no longer living with my AW (alcoholic Wife) but the lessons that I have learned here and at Al-Anon have given me huge amounts of strength to carry on.
Why don't you start a thread of your own and introduce yourself to the forum. That will draw a lot more attention and get you the responses from people with experience more like your own issue.
Your friend,
First thing, his drinking is his, problem or not. The 3 c's are a really big thing here for a good reason. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.
The only thing that you can work on is yourself.
From my experience I have found both Al-Anon and this site to be huge helps. There are large amounts of wisdom and experience here for you to take advantage of. I am no longer living with my AW (alcoholic Wife) but the lessons that I have learned here and at Al-Anon have given me huge amounts of strength to carry on.
Why don't you start a thread of your own and introduce yourself to the forum. That will draw a lot more attention and get you the responses from people with experience more like your own issue.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 706
Originally Posted by Ogilve
She tells me that my partner doesn't need to abstain from drinking, but should drink in moderation.
Zube
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by m1k3
Are all problem drinkers alcoholics?
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
Some people drink and have no problem.
Some people drink and occasionally drink too much.
Some people have a beer or 2 every day.
Some people drink lots everyday.
Some people binge drink.
Some people drink until they black out.
How do you or they know if they are alcoholics?
I find this to be very confusing.
I've had an ABF before and my current BF does not show any of the addict personality traits (yet).
what we decided was this:
1. It is a problem if it affects the relationship
- this means in any way --- less sex, less talking, not doing what he says he will do, etc
2. It is an addiction if he chooses alcohol over the relationship
- meaning I have a talk with him about the behavior and he is unable to choose a relationship over alcohol
3. It is a problem if it is a problem for me regardless if he is an alcoholic or not
So I just sat on this information for a while and recently had a discussion with the BF.
I don't live with him, nor do I rely on him financially so I can take my time and let it play out. I don't think the odds are good though.
To me his level of drinking really increased since I met him over a year ago and I'm just not comfortable with the amount he drinks now or what it does to our relationship.
Not to mention it starts all that crazy codie controlling behavior in me which I hate. I've been silently inventorying the amount he drinks recently and I will not live like that ever again.
He has already cut back and I will see what happens. Too bad, lovely lovely man. Kind and patient as the day is long even when drunk.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Yeah, the whole thing is one big gray fuzzy mess.
He may not be an alcoholic but the drinking is a problem in the relationship. No easy answers. The question is are you willing to expose yourself to that again?
For my part I'm still living in the suburbs of codieville and looking to move even farther away. I have no desire for an apartment downtown again.
Your friend,
He may not be an alcoholic but the drinking is a problem in the relationship. No easy answers. The question is are you willing to expose yourself to that again?
For my part I'm still living in the suburbs of codieville and looking to move even farther away. I have no desire for an apartment downtown again.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by m1k3
He may not be an alcoholic but the drinking is a problem in the relationship. No easy answers. The question is are you willing to expose yourself to that again?
Your friend,
Your friend,
Nope.
Nope.
That I am very clear about so I am not expecting the relationship to last much longer.
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